3-Jan-1999 19:02:10-GMT,3405;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA08925 for ; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 12:02:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from cs.umb.edu (root@cs.umb.edu [158.121.104.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA14774 for ; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 14:02:03 -0500 Received: from hub.cs.umb.edu (hub.cs.umb.edu [158.121.104.161]) by cs.umb.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA06292; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 14:01:59 -0500 (EST) From: Karl Berry Received: (from karl@localhost) by hub.cs.umb.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA25562; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 14:01:57 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 14:01:57 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901031901.OAA25562@hub.cs.umb.edu> To: kotelnik@nsu.ru Cc: tex-fonts@tug.org, cschenk@snafu.de Subject: Re: ParaGraph fonts Therefore I ask to register the names of fonts by Paragraph = International listed below.=20 (Sorry for the long-delayed reply.) Indeed, there are several conflicts between your abbreviations and the ones assigned some time ago -- for example, `ak' is already Arkona, so I can't assign it to Academy. Do you want me to find new abbreviations for your typefaces, or do you prefer to just go on as you have been? (That is, it wouldn't make sense for me to find the new abbreviations unless you or someone is actually going to use them.) Best wishes, Karl Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 11:30:54 +0600 From: "Igor A. Kotelnikov" To: Cc: "Christian Schenk" Subject: ParaGraph fonts Sir, For a quite long time I have been using fonts produced by the Paragraph = International to typeset LaTeX documents in Russian. A year ago or so I renamed the fonts = to meet the requirements of K. Berry's scheme. Now, I observe few additions in the = scheme so that some of names given by me came into contradiction to the current scheme. Therefore I ask to register the names of fonts by Paragraph = International listed below.=20 No doubts, that you have the rights to make any changes in the font = abbreviations to avoid possible conflict with other fonts. I would appreciate prompt reply. Igor A. Kotelnikov E-mail address: kotelnik@nsu.ru=20 %%%%%%% THIS IS ParaGraph.map %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% % % PS fonts from Paragraph International % takrz AcademyC =20 takriz AcademyC-Italic =20 takbz AcademyC-Bold =20 tagkz AvantGardeGothicC-Book =20 tagkiz AvantGardeGothicC-Oblique =20 tagdz AvantGardeGothicC-Demi =20 tagdiz AvantGardeGothicC-DemiOblique tbarz BalticaC =20 tbariz BalticaC-Italic tbabz BalticaC-Bold =20 tnbrz NewBaskervilleC-Roman =20 tnbriz NewBaskervilleC-Italic =20 tnbbz NewBaskervilleC-Bold =20 tnbbiz NewBaskervilleC-BoldItalic tofkz OfficinaSerifC-Book =20 tofkiz OfficinaSerifC-BookItalic tofbz OfficinaSerifC-Bold =20 tofbiz OfficinaSerifC-BoldItalic tpbrz PetersburgC =20 tpbriz PetersburgC-Italic tpbbz PetersburgC-Bold =20 tpbbiz PetersburgC-BoldItalic tpbbuz PetersburgC-BoldItalic tbkrz SchoolBookC =20 tbkriz SchoolBookC-Italic =20 tbkbz SchoolBookC-Bold =20 tbkbiz SchoolBookC-BoldItalic tssz StudioScriptC =20 tzcz ZapfChanceryC-MediumItalic %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% 3-Jan-1999 23:42:02-GMT,1849;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from out5.ibm.net (out5.ibm.net [165.87.194.243]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA13910 for ; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 16:42:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from slip139-92-14-90.nue.de.ibm.net (slip139-92-14-90.nue.de.ibm.net [139.92.14.90]) by out5.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA172980 for ; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 23:41:58 GMT Message-Id: <199901032341.XAA172980@out5.ibm.net> From: "Walter Schmidt" To: "tex-fonts" Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 00:29:42 +0100 Reply-To: "wschmi@ibm.net" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 1.96a (OS/2 Warp) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: ParaGraph fonts On Sun, 3 Jan 1999 14:01:57 -0500 (EST), Karl Berry wrote: > Therefore I ask to register the names of fonts by Paragraph = > International listed below.=20 > >(Sorry for the long-delayed reply.) > >Indeed, there are several conflicts between your abbreviations and the >ones assigned some time ago -- In case you make an attempt to find suitable names for the Paragraph fonts, please, do not forget one fontname conflict which is not obvious from Igor's list: The current names for "Paragraph Orator" are "tor...", which designates also European Concrete Roman. Thank you Walter ********************************************************************* Walter Schmidt Schornbaumstrasse 2 91052 Erlangen, Germany pgp key (RSA, 1024 bit, id=69D36B8D): see pgp key fingerprint: 1C E5 A5 D8 B8 F7 E2 EF 36 55 69 EC D8 26 94 A9 ********************************************************************* 4-Jan-1999 13:15:16-GMT,1121;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from cs.umb.edu (root@cs.umb.edu [158.121.104.2]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA28765 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 06:15:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from hub.cs.umb.edu (karl@hub.cs.umb.edu [158.121.104.161]) by cs.umb.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA15997 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 08:15:12 -0500 (EST) From: Karl Berry Received: (from karl@localhost) by hub.cs.umb.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA00554; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 08:15:09 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 08:15:09 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901041315.IAA00554@hub.cs.umb.edu> To: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: ParaGraph fonts The current names for "Paragraph Orator" are "tor...", which designates also European Concrete Roman. Thanks for mentioning this. Unfortunately I'm not sure there's anything I can do. "or" has been orator for a long time, and "t" has been Paragraph for a long time. Hopefully there are no conflicts in practice if the European Concrete Roman fonts are named like Knuth's originals. 4-Jan-1999 16:14:19-GMT,1612;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from out4.ibm.net (out4.ibm.net [165.87.194.239]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA02295 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 09:14:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from slip139-92-41-85.ut.nl.ibm.net (slip139-92-41-85.ut.nl.ibm.net [139.92.41.85]) by out4.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA26030 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 16:14:14 GMT Message-Id: <199901041614.QAA26030@out4.ibm.net> From: "Walter Schmidt" To: "tex-fonts" Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 16:30:32 +0100 Reply-To: "wschmi@ibm.net" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 1.96a (OS/2 Warp) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: ParaGraph fonts On Mon, 4 Jan 1999 08:15:09 -0500 (EST), Karl Berry wrote: >Hopefully there are no conflicts in practice >if the European Concrete Roman fonts are named like Knuth's originals. torm.. are the text companion symbols of the European Concrete Roman fonts, which I have named following J.Knappen's EC text companion symbols tcrm.. The following names are used: torm5 torm6 torm7 torm8 torm9 torm10 One fontname conflict affecting torm10 has been reported so far. On the other hand, I really don't know why the Paragraph fonts have torm10 at all, since Adobe Orator has _no_ porm10: porr8r Orator porro8r Orator-Slanted borr108r OratorBT-TenPitch borr158r OratorBT-FifteenPitch Perhaps someone had used "m" for "medium" instead of "r" for "regular" ? Greetings Walter 5-Jan-1999 18:23:41-GMT,2013;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.232.33]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA05335 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:23:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.241.5]) by ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA12219; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:23:26 +0100 (MET) Received: (from bouche@localhost) by mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.7.6/8.6.9) id TAA17302; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:21:11 +0100 (MET) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:21:11 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199901051821.TAA17302@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> From: Thierry Bouche To: PDFTeX Mailing List CC: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: OT2cmr.fd X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Hi, happy new year &c.! As I could not coerce AE's author to include the guillemets from wncyr into the AE fonts as possible alternatives to the EC french guillemets, people are now trying to use them trhough macros. However, they're facing a problem with pdftex (which is the main reason for prefering CM+mlTeX or AE to EC) because the type 1 versions of wncyr fonts have less available pointsizes than the mf versions. I think the problem is with the .fd file: there should maybe be some option somewhere (similar to amslatex's psamsfont) restricting the number of used sizes. This could be made available to all packages through a mechansim like the "lucidascale" option in the lucidabr package. (namely: declaring fonts in the FD through some macro defined there with \providecommand, and tunable from some knowledgeable package). What do you think? Who is responsible for these files? Where should the discussion take place? Thanks! Thierry Bouche. ----- thierry.bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr http://www-fourier.ujf-grenoble.fr/~bouche/pdfTeX 13-Jan-1999 20:24:20-GMT,1773;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.xs4all.nl (smtp1.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.51]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA06560 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:24:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from infovore (root@infovore.xs4all.nl [194.109.13.254]) by smtp1.xs4all.nl (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA28384; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:23:26 +0100 (CET) Received: by infovore id m100QLE-000clsC (Debian Smail-3.2.0.101 1997-Dec-17 #2); Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:28:12 +0100 (AMT) To: Vladimir Volovich Cc: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu, fontinst@cogs.susx.ac.uk, tex-k@tug.org, enge@nada.kth.se Subject: Re: bug in ae virtual fonts, or in fontinst, or in vptovf/vftovp? References: Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: Olaf Weber Date: 13 Jan 1999 14:28:10 +0100 In-Reply-To: Vladimir Volovich's message of "27 Sep 1998 14:55:01 +0400" Message-ID: <87n23nmhed.fsf@infovore.xs4all.nl> Lines: 24 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Vladimir Volovich writes: > Hi, > when i'm trying to produce vpl file for the ae fonts from vf and tfm > files, i get a "bad vf file" error from vftovp, e.g.: > % vftovp aer10.vf aer10.tfm aer10.vpl > Bad VF file: Oversize dimension has been reset to zero. See my other mail for this issue. Bug in vptovf, fixed in web2c 7.3. ... > and this is definitely a bug in vftovp, since error message goes to > stdout instead of stderr; and the last line in vpl file > (COMMENT THE TFM AND/OR VF FILE WAS BAD, SO THE DATA HAS BEEN CHANGED!) > comes without a newline character, which is also a bug. Fixes will be in web2c 7.3 as well. -- Olaf Weber 13-Jan-1999 20:24:13-GMT,2748;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from smtp3.xs4all.nl (smtp3.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.53]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA06550 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:24:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from infovore (root@infovore.xs4all.nl [194.109.13.254]) by smtp3.xs4all.nl (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA24934; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:23:12 +0100 (CET) Received: by infovore id m100QIW-000clmC (Debian Smail-3.2.0.101 1997-Dec-17 #2); Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:25:24 +0100 (AMT) To: Vladimir Volovich Cc: "Berthold K.P. Horn" , tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu, fontinst@cogs.susx.ac.uk, tex-k@tug.org, enge@nada.kth.se Subject: Re: bug in ae virtual fonts, or in fontinst, or in vptovf/vftovp? References: <199809271141.LAA21945@mail-out-4.tiac.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: Olaf Weber Date: 13 Jan 1999 14:25:20 +0100 In-Reply-To: Vladimir Volovich's message of "27 Sep 1998 19:09:32 +0400" Message-ID: <87ogo3mhj3.fsf@infovore.xs4all.nl> Lines: 47 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Vladimir Volovich writes: > "BKPH" == Berthold K P Horn writes: >>> % vftovp aer10.vf aer10.tfm aer10.vpl Bad VF file: Oversize >>> dimension has been reset to zero. > BKPH> I don't know whether this is the same issue, but many VF files > BKPH> insert absurd rules with semi-infinite negative dimensions. I > BKPH> reported on this before, wondering whether this was some > BKPH> special marker used for some obscure purpose. Of course, it > BKPH> doesn't print because the dimension is negative, but what is it > BKPH> for, and where does it come from? > Note, that the original VPL file contained a zero-width rule (i.e. not > with "semi-infinite negative dimensions"): > (CHARACTER D 23 (COMMENT compwordmark) > (CHARWD R 0.0) > (CHARHT R 4.29993) > (CHARDP R 0.0) > (MAP > (SETRULE R 4.29993 R 0.0) > ) > ) > So perhaps this shows a bug in vptovf? Or is vftovp incorrectly > "interpreting" a zero width? Anyway, it looks like a bug in > vptovf/vftovp, and not a bug in fontinst/ae fonts. It looks like this was due to a bug in vftovp that was corrected in the August 1998 release of vptovf (version 1.5) which had been found by Wayne Sullivan. This bug resulted in the semi-infinite negative dimensions seen by Berthold. The bug should be fixed in recent teTeX-0.9 snapshots, and will be fixed in the upcoming web2c 7.3. The following change summarizes the fix: @x [128] Correct a bug found by Wayne G. Sullivan if x>0 then negative:=false @y if x>=0 then negative:=false @z -- Olaf Weber 15-Jan-1999 20:33:59-GMT,1967;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from plot79.math.utah.edu (beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu [155.101.20.21]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA14087; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 13:33:59 -0700 (MST) From: "Nelson H. F. Beebe" Received: (from beebe@localhost) by plot79.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA13140; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 13:33:58 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 13:33:58 -0700 (MST) To: tex-implementors@math.ams.org, tex-archive@csc-sun.math.utah.edu, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Cc: beebe@csc-sun.math.utah.edu X-US-Mail: "Center for Scientific Computing, Department of Mathematics, 322 INSCC, University of Utah, 155 S 1400 E RM 233, Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA" X-Telephone: +1 801 581 5254 X-FAX: +1 801 585 1640, +1 801 581 4148 X-URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe Subject: The typographic point in history Message-ID: I don't expect this posting to generate discussion, but you might be interested in looking at http://www.irisa.fr/faqtypo/truchet/truchet.html (available in French and English) on the history of the origin of the typographic point. It turned up in a current discussion on the Unicode list about ISO standardization of typographic units. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 - - Center for Scientific Computing FAX: +1 801 585 1640, +1 801 581 4148 - - University of Utah Internet e-mail: beebe@math.utah.edu - - Department of Mathematics, 322 INSCC beebe@acm.org - - 155 S 1400 E RM 233 beebe@ieee.org - - Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19-Jan-1999 2:41:11-GMT,2164;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA13828 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 19:41:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from snowdrop.csv.warwick.ac.uk (snowdrop.csv.warwick.ac.uk [137.205.192.31]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA16200 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 21:41:08 -0500 Received: from mimosa.csv.warwick.ac.uk (mimosa [137.205.192.34]) by snowdrop.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA07319 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 02:41:06 GMT Received: (from cudat@localhost) by mimosa.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id OAA11602 for tex-fonts@mail.tug.org; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:40:12 GMT From: J M Hicks Message-Id: <199901181440.OAA11602@mimosa.csv.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: modes.mf To: tex-fonts@tug.org Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:40:12 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've had a look at the file modes.mf in http://www.tex.ac.uk/tex-archive/fonts/amsfonts/sources/modes.mf This file contains the following:- % From {\tt cudat@cu.warwick.ac.uk}. mode_def agfafzz = %\[ AGFA 400PS (406dpi) mode_param (pixels_per_inch, 406); mode_param (blacker, .2); mode_param (fillin, 0); mode_param (o_correction, .6); mode_common_setup_; enddef; AgfaFourZeroZero := agfafzz; I sent this in some years ago and the electronic mail address given no longer works. Last week I had a message from someone who wanted some information about this mode and printer. Would it be possible for the electronic mail address to be changed >From cudat@cu.warwick.ac.uk to J.Hicks@warwick.ac.uk ? Also, I wonder whether it would be useful to include the date of submission as well as the electronic mail address of the submitter in future submissions. I hope you find these remarks constructive. Jim Hicks, Information Technology Services, Warwick University, Coventry, England. CV4 7AL Fax: +44 12O3 523267 J.Hicks@warwick.ac.uk 19-Jan-1999 13:32:46-GMT,1323;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA26132 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 06:32:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from cs.umb.edu (cs.umb.edu [158.121.104.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA18454 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:32:44 -0500 Received: from hub.cs.umb.edu (hub.cs.umb.edu [158.121.104.161]) by cs.umb.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA17466; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:32:42 -0500 (EST) From: Karl Berry Received: (from karl@localhost) by hub.cs.umb.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA16100; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:32:41 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:32:41 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901191332.IAA16100@hub.cs.umb.edu> To: cudat@csv.warwick.ac.uk Cc: tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: Re: modes.mf Would it be possible for the electronic mail address to be changed from cudat@cu.warwick.ac.uk to J.Hicks@warwick.ac.uk ? I'll fix it for next time, thanks. Also, I wonder whether it would be useful to include the date of submission as well as the electronic mail address of the submitter in future submissions. I started doing that at some point. You came before I realized quite how many years this file was going to live :). Thanks, 31-Jan-1999 22:55:45-GMT,1014;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from cs.umb.edu (cs.umb.edu [158.121.104.2]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id PAA20094 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 15:55:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from hub.cs.umb.edu (hub.cs.umb.edu [158.121.104.161]) by cs.umb.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA21573; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 17:55:41 -0500 (EST) From: Karl Berry Received: (from karl@localhost) by hub.cs.umb.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA06712; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 17:55:40 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 17:55:40 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901312255.RAA06712@hub.cs.umb.edu> To: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu CC: demaille@inf.enst.fr Subject: Re: texinfo language command? Is there any freely available font for TeX with the euro symbol, and/or other currency symbols such as yen, florin, etc etc? I noticed the eurofont package on ctan but it seems to only use Adobe's fonts. I'm surprising myself that I don't know the answer :). Thanks for any clues, Karl 1-Feb-1999 0:34:13-GMT,2749;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from out1.ibm.net (out1.ibm.net [165.87.194.252]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id RAA22158 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 17:34:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from slip139-92-41-85.ut.nl.ibm.net (slip139-92-41-85.ut.nl.ibm.net [139.92.41.85]) by out1.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA10858; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 00:34:06 GMT Message-Id: <199902010034.AAA10858@out1.ibm.net> From: "Walter Schmidt" To: "tex-fonts" , "Karl Berry" Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 01:32:53 +0100 Reply-To: "wschmi@ibm.net" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 1.96a (OS/2 Warp) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: texinfo language command? On Sun, 31 Jan 1999 17:55:40 -0500 (EST), Karl Berry wrote: >Is there any freely available font for TeX with the euro symbol, >... In Type1 format there are, e.g., the "Adobe Euro" fonts; see or . This is a self-extracting zip archive for DOS/Win, which can be unpacked by Info-Zip's unzip, too. A LaTeX package supporting these fonts is "eurosans.sty", see the CTAN directory macros/latex/supported/eurosans . The Adobe fonts are free, they contain the official version of the Euro symbol, and they provide boldface and/or italic variants, too, so I really consider them as the "canonical" Type1 implementation. In Metafont format there are, e.g., the "eurosym" fonts (created by Henrik Theiling), see the CTAN directory fonts/eurosym; they come with a suitable LaTeX package. >I noticed the eurofont package on ctan but it seems to only use Adobe's >fonts. AFAIK the eurofont package supports all known fonts with Euro symbols; a configuration file controls which one is to be used with a certain font family. > ... and/or >other currency symbols such as yen, florin, etc etc? Many currency symbols are part of the TS1 encoding, which is fully implemented in the EC, EC Concrete and EC Bright fonts. Greetings Walter P.S. >Thanks for any clues, Thanky for any clues about the "subject" line of your message (texinfo ... ;-) ********************************************************************* Walter Schmidt Schornbaumstrasse 2 91052 Erlangen, Germany pgp key (RSA, 1024 bit, id=69D36B8D): see pgp key fingerprint: 1C E5 A5 D8 B8 F7 E2 EF 36 55 69 EC D8 26 94 A9 ********************************************************************* 1-Feb-1999 4:10:20-GMT,3538;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from mserv1a.u-net.net (mserv1a.u-net.net [195.102.240.34]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id VAA26263 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 21:10:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from ([195.102.196.182]) [195.102.196.182] by mserv1a.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 107AgM-0006qa-00; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 04:09:54 +0000 X-Sender: rebecca-astrid@mail.u-net.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199901312255.RAA06712@hub.cs.umb.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 03:49:14 +0000 To: Karl Berry From: Rebecca and Rowland Subject: Re: texinfo language command? Cc: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu >Is there any freely available font for TeX with the euro symbol, and/or >other currency symbols such as yen, florin, etc etc? > >I noticed the eurofont package on ctan but it seems to only use Adobe's >fonts. RTFM, please[1]! The eurofont package is quite happy using several other euro symbols, including the Metafont eurosym version (the eurosym option gets you this one), Marvosym's euro symbols (pass the marvosym option to eurofont), and China2e's euro symbol (but you've got to RTFM to find out how to use that one). Not to mention the way it'll fake a euro using a C and a pair of rules if you ask it to (the output from this fakery is the best I've yet seen, but please don't look at the code that generates it because that's not at all nice). (sorry if I sound like I'm ranting, but I wouldn't have needed to write quite that much code if I'd just wanted to support Adobe's Eurofonts, would I?) Maybe you're thinking of the eurosans package? >I'm surprising myself that I don't know the answer :). Dunno about other currency symbols, but there's the Text Companion founts which have rather strange euro symbols, China2e, Marvosym, and eurosym; all >From CTAN. Section 3 in the eurofont documentation will tell you about the options to switch between Adobe's Eurofont euro symbols, the Marvosym euro symbols, or the Eurosym version. If you want to use the China2e euro symbol, add the name(s) of the fount families you want to use that euro symbol to the \chinae list in the eurofont.cfg file. This is documented in section 4 of the eurofont documentation. "Walter Schmidt" wrote: >AFAIK the eurofont package supports all known fonts with Euro symbols; >a configuration file controls which one is to be used with a certain >font family. the idea of the eurofont package is that it will allow you to use *any* euro symbol, known by me or not. It's set up so that it's easiest to use the ones I knew about when I wrote the package, but there's no reason why you should use *any* euro symbol if you want to - draw your own and use an included EPS graphic if you like; you're not even restricted to using euro symbols from a fount. btw, I uploaded a new version of eurofont the other day, which makes the \EFeuro (and hence \euro) command robust. This is a Good Thing, because the original version broke in section headings and the like. Rowland. (who spend absolutely bloody ages writing the bloody documentation for the bloody eurofont bloody package. Bloody. Bloody? Yes, well, it's still not good enough.) [1] The first thing the documentation tells you is that the package is there to help you use a euro symbol *from any source* in any fount. Section 1.1 gets a bit more specific. 1-Feb-1999 18:22:21-GMT,1595;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id LAA14219 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:22:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Local (MMTA v2.2) with ESMTP; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 18:21:10 +0000 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA03416; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 18:21:01 GMT From: Chris Rowley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 18:21:00 +0000 (GMT) To: "wschmi@ibm.net" Cc: tex-fonts , Karl Berry Subject: Re: texinfo language command? In-Reply-To: <199902010034.AAA10858@out1.ibm.net> References: <199902010034.AAA10858@out1.ibm.net> X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <14005.61283.575598.618266@fell.open.ac.uk> Walter Schmidt wrote -- > The Adobe fonts are free, they contain the official version of > the Euro symbol, So Adobe now presribes from San Jose what this official version? Must be them, since no one in Euroland would do so, surely? Except maybe a little bank in Frankfurt:-)? and they provide boldface and/or > italic variants, Sounds strange: a sloped variant maybe but I am unsure how "official" even that could be. > Many currency symbols are part of the TS1 encoding, which is fully > implemented in the EC, EC Concrete and EC Bright fonts. Including a euro symbol. chris 1-Feb-1999 22:43:44-GMT,1898;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from out5.ibm.net (out5.ibm.net [165.87.194.243]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id PAA21620 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 15:43:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from slip139-92-41-121.ut.nl.ibm.net (slip139-92-41-121.ut.nl.ibm.net [139.92.41.121]) by out5.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA64098; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:43:02 GMT Message-Id: <199902012243.WAA64098@out5.ibm.net> From: "Walter Schmidt" To: "tex-fonts" , "Chris Rowley" Cc: "tex-fonts" Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 23:41:47 +0100 Reply-To: "wschmi@ibm.net" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 1.96a (OS/2 Warp) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: texinfo language command? On Mon, 1 Feb 1999 18:21:00 +0000 (GMT), Chris Rowley wrote: >> The Adobe fonts are free, they contain the official version of >> the Euro symbol, > >So Adobe now presribes from San Jose what this official version? official = complying with the design published by the European Community, see >>and they provide boldface and/or italic variants, > >Sounds strange: a sloped variant maybe It *is* just sloped, but Adobe calls it "italic". Neither boldface nor sloped is "official", but it isn't forbidden either. Using the "regular" symbol within an italic and/or boldface environment would be too ugly. Other font families (incl. EC/TC) go still one step further: The shape of the symbol is adapted to the style of the particular font. This complies with the way other currency symbols are treated, but it is definitely *not* the official way. With monospaced (typewriter) fonts, however, this cannot be avoided. Walter 1-Feb-1999 23:16:55-GMT,1823;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from mserv1a.u-net.net (mserv1a.u-net.net [195.102.240.34]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id QAA22572 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:16:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from ([195.102.196.6]) [195.102.196.6] by mserv1a.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 107SaK-0003f8-00; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:16:52 +0000 X-Sender: rebecca-astrid@mail.u-net.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <14005.61283.575598.618266@fell.open.ac.uk> References: <199902010034.AAA10858@out1.ibm.net> <199902010034.AAA10858@out1.ibm.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:52:05 +0000 To: tex-fonts From: Rebecca and Rowland Subject: Re: texinfo language command? >Walter Schmidt wrote -- > >> The Adobe fonts are free, they contain the official version of >> the Euro symbol, > >So Adobe now presribes from San Jose what this official version? > >Must be them, since no one in Euroland would do so, surely? Except >maybe a little bank in Frankfurt:-)? [snip] >Sounds strange: a sloped variant maybe but I am unsure how "official" >even that could be. If only the bank had made the decision... Unfortunately, the decision on the official euro symbol was made by the usual bunch of idiots in the EC. But... The `straight' Adobe Eurosans symbol is modelled on the official euro, for which you can download a partial specification from the EU's Web site. That particular shape and no other is the official euro symbol, which means the bold, italic, monospaced, and seriffed versions are all unofficial. My advice is to use the unofficial versions as much as possible, just to upset the bureacrats. Rowland. 2-Feb-1999 5:49:46-GMT,1516;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from mserv1a.u-net.net (mserv1a.u-net.net [195.102.240.34]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id WAA01073 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:49:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from ([195.102.197.120]) [195.102.197.120] by mserv1a.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 107Yii-0006gy-00; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 05:49:57 +0000 X-Sender: rebecca-astrid@mail.u-net.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199902012243.WAA64098@out5.ibm.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:27:39 +0000 To: From: Rebecca and Rowland Subject: Re: texinfo language command? At 10:41 pm +0000 1/2/99, Walter Schmidt wrote: >On Mon, 1 Feb 1999 18:21:00 +0000 (GMT), Chris Rowley wrote: [snip] >>>and they provide boldface and/or italic variants, >> >>Sounds strange: a sloped variant maybe > >It *is* just sloped, but Adobe calls it "italic". > >Neither boldface nor sloped is "official", but it isn't >forbidden either. I think you'll find that it is: http://europa.eu.int/euro/html/entry.html says, as I recall, that only the official symbol may be used, and it's got to be in black or the official shade of blue. > Using the "regular" symbol within an >italic and/or boldface environment would be too ugly. Yep. Such considerations are irrelevant to the idiots who came up with the symbol. [snip] Rowland. 2-Feb-1999 15:59:18-GMT,2810;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id IAA12945 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:59:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Local (MMTA v2.2) with ESMTP; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:36:32 +0000 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA04299; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:36:26 GMT From: Chris Rowley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:36:25 +0000 (GMT) To: tex-fonts Subject: Re: texinfo language command? In-Reply-To: References: <199902012243.WAA64098@out5.ibm.net> X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <14007.5882.27846.368362@fell.open.ac.uk> Oh what an appalling web page: > http://europa.eu.int/euro/html/entry.html But struggling on I found a treasure trove of bureaucratic inanities and interesting usage of my mother-tongue. Amongst the pronouncments are these: The euro glyph must be universally accepted and recognized on all information systems and keyboards by 1 January '99. oops. missed out on that one (later they blame Microsoft for the keyboards delay ... well, Bill knows a lot about delays I guess, but I doubt he has heard of Euros or Europe). All major world currencies have their own symbol and now the euro has one as well. Now I wonder if the German or French versions contain that? BUT I found nothing at all about an official version of the text symbol. There is, as one would expect, a precise description of the logo (or sign) --- after all, nothing is in greater need for a good clean image than the EU right now --- but this just that, not a currency symbol. It also says, and who am I to disagree, that no currency symbols (not even that of the second most important world currency) are in any sense official. The only official text to use for currencies are the 3-letter iso forms such as usd, dem, gbp (what do they use in N. Ireland then??) (just remember that when you sign any documents containg $-signs). My conclusion is that a font designer is welcome to provide any reperesentation they wish of this symbol, and no one has to use if they do not wish to. > It says, as I recall, that only the official symbol may be used, and > it's got to be in black or the official shade of blue. The only reference i found to colors is this, concerning the logo: The euro logo can be constructed using yellow on a clear background or yellow on a blue background. But maybe i did not want to find what I did not find? chris 2-Feb-1999 16:00:04-GMT,1536;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id JAA12975 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:00:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from MAUI (maui.ai.mit.edu [128.52.37.105]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.9.1/AI2.7/ai.master.life:2.2) with SMTP id KAA22918; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:59:36 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990202105735.00a98160@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 10:59:37 -0500 To: Chris Rowley , "wschmi@ibm.net" From: Berthold Horn Subject: Re: texinfo language command? Cc: tex-fonts , Karl Berry In-Reply-To: <14005.61283.575598.618266@fell.open.ac.uk> References: <199902010034.AAA10858@out1.ibm.net> <199902010034.AAA10858@out1.ibm.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 18:21 1999-02-01 +0000, Chris Rowley wrote: >Walter Schmidt wrote -- > >> The Adobe fonts are free, they contain the official version of >> the Euro symbol, > >So Adobe now presribes from San Jose what this official version? Not quite. The symbol in their Euro Sans follows the geometrical spec on the Euro cite. According to the beaurocrats this is the only legitimate one - apparently they have not heard of fonts or designers or making things look harmonious. Berthold K.P. Horn Cambridge, Massachusetts (M) 2-Feb-1999 16:46:53-GMT,1585;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.232.33]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id JAA14332 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:46:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.241.5]) by ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA09005; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:46:49 +0100 (MET) Received: (from bouche@localhost) by mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.7.6/8.6.9) id RAA06412; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:48:48 +0100 (MET) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:48:48 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199902021648.RAA06412@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> From: Thierry Bouche To: Chris Rowley Cc: tex-fonts Subject: Re: texeuro language command? In-Reply-To: <14007.5882.27846.368362@fell.open.ac.uk> References: <199902012243.WAA64098@out5.ibm.net> <14007.5882.27846.368362@fell.open.ac.uk> X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII A proposition adopted by the members of the list Typographie was to quietly ignore all the baffle around that logo/charachter, and simply replace our 'F' by a 'E' on due date. BTW, there has been a special symbol for francs (a F with a bar) that was costly developed years ago, and never used. I'm afraid it found its way inside the Monotype.com font (so maybe it's wasting a slot in wgl4 by now?) Thierry Bouche, Grenoble. 2-Feb-1999 20:55:57-GMT,2010;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id NAA21042 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:55:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from MAUI (maui.ai.mit.edu [128.52.37.105]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.9.1/AI2.7/ai.master.life:2.2) with SMTP id PAA12283; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:55:55 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990202155332.00acadf0@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 15:55:54 -0500 To: tex-fonts From: Berthold Horn Subject: Re: texeuro language command? Cc: tex-fonts In-Reply-To: <199902021648.RAA06412@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> References: <14007.5882.27846.368362@fell.open.ac.uk> <199902012243.WAA64098@out5.ibm.net> <14007.5882.27846.368362@fell.open.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 17:48 1999-02-02 +0100, Thierry Bouche wrote: >A proposition adopted by the members of the list Typographie was to >quietly ignore all the baffle around that logo/charachter, and simply >replace our 'F' by a 'E' on due date. >BTW, there has been a special symbol for francs (a F with a bar) that >was costly developed years ago, and never used. I'm afraid it found >its way inside the Monotype.com font (so maybe it's wasting a slot in >wgl4 by now?) It is not in WGL4 (MS), but it is in the new standard Apple character set. They added Lslash, lslash, Scaron, scaron, Zcaron, zcaron, brokenbar, Eth, eth, Yacute, yacute, Thorn, thorn, minus, multiply, onesuperior, twosuperior, threesuperior, onehalf, onequarter, threequarters, which exist in typical text fonts, and franc, Gbreve, gbreve, Idot, Scedilla, scedilla, Cacute, cacute, Ccaron, ccaron, dmacron, which do not exist in typical text fonts. Berthold K.P. Horn Cambridge, Massachusetts (M) 3-Feb-1999 6:48:23-GMT,3005;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from mserv1a.u-net.net (mserv1a.u-net.net [195.102.240.34]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id XAA04199 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 23:48:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from ([195.102.197.85]) [195.102.197.85] by mserv1a.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 107w6q-0006t6-00; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 06:48:24 +0000 X-Sender: rebecca-astrid@mail.u-net.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <14007.5882.27846.368362@fell.open.ac.uk> References: <199902012243.WAA64098@out5.ibm.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 00:32:47 +0000 To: Chris Rowley , tex-fonts From: Rebecca and Rowland Subject: Re: texinfo language command? At 3:36 pm +0000 2/2/99, Chris Rowley wrote: [snip] >oops. missed out on that one (later they blame Microsoft for the >keyboards delay ... well, Bill knows a lot about delays I guess, but I >doubt he has heard of Euros or Europe). Erm... don't think so - Win98 comes with euro glyphs in the founts, doesn't it? It's an interesting idea that all computers in the world must be modified to use euros by a certain date. I wonder if they've tried to convince the people running the reconstructed first ever software programmable digital electronic computer that they need to get it to work with euros? And what about my ZX81? Should I hassle Sir Clive about that? > All major world currencies have their own symbol and now the euro has > one as well. > >Now I wonder if the German or French versions contain that? Of course! Didn't you know the only two European currencies of any significance were the Italian Lira and Pound Sterling? [snip] >The only official text to use for currencies are the 3-letter iso >forms such as usd, dem, gbp (what do they use in N. Ireland then??) Hmm - hadn't thought of that one. >(just remember that when you sign any documents containg $-signs). > >My conclusion is that a font designer is welcome to provide any >reperesentation they wish of this symbol, and no one has to use if >they do not wish to. Hmm... Interesting - it's not the way I read it. Maybe it's changed recently? I suppose I ought to have a look at it again. >> It says, as I recall, that only the official symbol may be used, and >> it's got to be in black or the official shade of blue. > >The only reference i found to colors is this, concerning the logo: > > The euro logo can be constructed using yellow on a clear background or > yellow on a blue background. > >But maybe i did not want to find what I did not find? Oops - no, you're just correcting my famously bad memory. I knew blue was in it somewhere, but... Well, yes, yellow on blue is exactly what my records (from that Web site) tell me too. Rowland. 3-Feb-1999 12:25:41-GMT,1893;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id FAA10296 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 05:25:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Local (MMTA v2.2) with ESMTP; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:08:48 +0000 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA05053; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:08:42 GMT From: Chris Rowley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:08:41 +0000 (GMT) To: Rebecca and Rowland Cc: tex-fonts Subject: Re: texinfo language command? In-Reply-To: References: <199902012243.WAA64098@out5.ibm.net> <14007.5882.27846.368362@fell.open.ac.uk> X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <14008.15172.418406.250466@fell.open.ac.uk> Rebecca and Rowland wrote -- > > Of course! Didn't you know the only two European currencies of any > significance were the Italian Lira and Pound Sterling? Why limit yourself to European: or is it clear that nothing non-European can posibly have any significance:-)? > > Oops - no, you're just correcting my famously bad memory. I knew blue was > in it somewhere, but... Well, yes, yellow on blue is exactly what my > records (from that Web site) tell me too. Which suggests that it is all about rebadging etc, and nothing to do with what founts should contain. Speaking of which, I think we should get designs and castings of the euro symbol in some classic hot-metal founts; maybe the Gutenberg Museum or similar institutions could raise spnsorship for this? chris 4-Feb-1999 1:15:57-GMT,3450;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from mail.omnilink.net (mail.omnilink.net [194.64.25.6]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id SAA29195 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 18:15:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from gazette.omnilink.net (gazette.omnilink.net [194.64.25.22]) by mail.omnilink.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA10923; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 02:15:09 +0100 (MET) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gazette.omnilink.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with UUCP id CAA21986; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 02:15:09 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from schrod@npc.de) Received: from baghira.npc.de (baghira.npc.de [195.20.66.162]) by npc.de (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA10829; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:40:29 +0100 Received: (from schrod@localhost) by baghira.npc.de (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id VAA17249; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:40:29 +0100 (MET) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14008.46140.715272.977412@baghira.npc.de> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:40:28 +0100 (MET) From: Joachim Schrod To: Chris Rowley Cc: tex-fonts Subject: Re: texinfo language command? In-Reply-To: <14007.5882.27846.368362@fell.open.ac.uk> References: <199902012243.WAA64098@out5.ibm.net> <14007.5882.27846.368362@fell.open.ac.uk> X-Mailer: VM 6.63 under 19.15p5 XEmacs Lucid >>>>> "CR" == Chris Rowley writes: CR> Oh what an appalling web page: >> http://europa.eu.int/euro/html/entry.html and later, concerning http://europa.eu.int/euro/html/rubrique-defaut5.html?lang=5&rubrique=100 and http://europa.eu.int/euro/html/dossiers/00203/html/index-EN.html CR> BUT I found nothing at all about an official version of the text symbol. CR> There is, as one would expect, a precise description of the logo (or CR> sign) --- after all, nothing is in greater need for a good clean image CR> than the EU right now --- but this just that, not a currency symbol. CR> It also says, and who am I to disagree, that no currency symbols (not CR> even that of the second most important world currency) are in any CR> sense official. ???? I didn't find this. CR> The only official text to use for currencies are the 3-letter iso CR> forms such as usd, dem, gbp (what do they use in N. Ireland then??) CR> (just remember that when you sign any documents containg $-signs). Christine did me the favor to ask the folks at the European Central Bank. :-) Benoit Gindele, currently responsible for the information that is published at their WWW site, told her: EUR is the official _abbreviation_. There exists an official euro currency sign as well. This is the same as the logo. In printed matter, it is to be used without the specific colors. If he comes around, an appropriate notice will be posted on the ECB WWW site. When I see him the next time, I'll ask him what's up with non-printed matter, e.g., WWW sites... :-) Cheers, Joachim PS: Partly information from the decision phase is in http://www.ecb.int/emi/press/press02.htm . I could also grep over the documents to find the one that notifies about the decision if that's really desired. ;-) -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Joachim Schrod Email: jschrod@acm.org Net & Publication Consultance GmbH Tel.: +49-6074-861530 Roedermark, Germany Fax: +49-6074-861531 4-Feb-1999 15:28:44-GMT,2488;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id IAA15567 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 08:28:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Local (MMTA v2.2) with ESMTP; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:28:12 +0000 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA06409; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:28:02 GMT From: Chris Rowley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:28:02 +0000 (GMT) To: Joachim Schrod Cc: tex-fonts Subject: Re: texinfo language command? In-Reply-To: <14008.46140.715272.977412@baghira.npc.de> References: <199902012243.WAA64098@out5.ibm.net> <14007.5882.27846.368362@fell.open.ac.uk> <14008.46140.715272.977412@baghira.npc.de> X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <14009.47759.311648.19835@fell.open.ac.uk> Hi Joachim Thanks to Christine for taking this up at the correct level. > Christine did me the favor to ask the folks at the European Central > Bank. :-) Benoit Gindele, currently responsible for the information > that is published at their WWW site, told her: I hope she passed on a users comments about the legibility of: http://europa.eu.int/euro/html/entry.htm > > EUR is the official _abbreviation_. There exists an official euro > currency sign as well. This is the same as the logo. In printed > matter, it is to be used without the specific colors. Agreed: but this is not the same as atext symbol used in the way \textsterling and \textlira are. What some people would like (certainly not me) is guidance as to how to design a glyph corrresponding to this sign to live in an exisitng fount. But do bankers webmasters understand that idea at all? > > If he comes around, an appropriate notice will be posted on the ECB > WWW site. When I see him the next time, I'll ask him what's up with > non-printed matter, e.g., WWW sites... :-) And if he is interested in printed text (not banknotes, but if he has some to spare I can find a good home for them). > I could also grep over the > documents to find the one that notifies about the decision if that's > really desired. ;-) A grep for fount or font or glyph or ... would be useful. Thanks chris 5-Feb-1999 1:20:00-GMT,2062;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from out5.ibm.net (out5.ibm.net [165.87.194.243]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id SAA01135 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:19:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from slip139-92-41-77.ut.nl.ibm.net (slip139-92-41-77.ut.nl.ibm.net [139.92.41.77]) by out5.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA136734 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 01:19:53 GMT Message-Id: <199902050119.BAA136734@out5.ibm.net> From: "Walter Schmidt" To: "tex-fonts" Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 02:19:34 +0100 Reply-To: "wschmi@ibm.net" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 1.96a (OS/2 Warp) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: bad afm file from Linotype Hi, I have downloaded a free Type1 font from the Linotype site . They are distributing one variant (regular 430) of their new "Univers basic" font family. They call it a "Demo" but they say it's not "crippled" in any way. Bad news is, that fontinst did not like the afm file when tried to install it, so I checked the file contents and found very strange things, e.g. the following line: CC idieresis 2 ; PCC 0 0 ; PCC dieresis -8 0 ; which should IMO rather be CC idieresis 2 ; PCC dotlessi 0 0 ; PCC dieresis -8 0 ; I corrected several (!) bugs of this kind manually, and fontinst ran smoothly then; my bug fixes had, obviously, made some sense. The resulting font was, however, lacking the glypghs igrave, iacute, icircumflex and idieresis (only the accenty were printed). I thought about sending a complaint to Linotype, but I just do not know the technical background well enough: May I really assume that any "Type 1 for PC" font can be used with TeX? Do other (non-TeX) users not require afm files, so that nobody cares? I cannot imagine that Linotype is distributing garbage; perhaps fontinst isn't clever enough? Thank you in advance for any clue Walter 5-Feb-1999 12:34:29-GMT,3449;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id FAA13357 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 05:34:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from MAUI (maui.ai.mit.edu [128.52.37.105]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.9.1/AI2.7/ai.master.life:2.2) with SMTP id HAA08392; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 07:34:24 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990204232007.00aaac10@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 07:35:08 -0500 To: "wschmi@ibm.net" , "tex-fonts" From: Berthold Horn Subject: Re: bad afm file from Linotype In-Reply-To: <199902050119.BAA136734@out5.ibm.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:19 1999-02-05 +0100, Walter Schmidt wrote: >I have downloaded a free Type1 font from the Linotype site >. They are distributing one >variant (regular 430) of their new "Univers basic" font family. >They call it a "Demo" but they say it's not "crippled" in any way. The errors in the AFM file are reflected in the actual font program itself. This font has apparently not been fed through their QA department! >Bad news is, that fontinst did not like the afm file when tried >to install it, so I checked the file contents and found very >strange things, e.g. the following line: >CC idieresis 2 ; PCC 0 0 ; PCC dieresis -8 0 ; >which should IMO rather be >CC idieresis 2 ; PCC dotlessi 0 0 ; PCC dieresis -8 0 ; Right, although, there is no reason for any software to look at these lines at all. They tell you how the composite characters can be made by superimposing base and accent. But this isn't something you would ever want to do if you have the ready-made composites. Is it AFM2TFM that complains? >I corrected several (!) bugs of this kind manually, and fontinst >ran smoothly then; my bug fixes had, obviously, made some sense. >The resulting font was, however, lacking the glypghs igrave, >iacute, icircumflex and idieresis (only the accenty were printed). The font in fact does not have the composites. Or rather the code for those composites is essentially the same as that of the corresponding accents (except for the advance width). One can conjecture that the tool they use to make these fonts read the same bogus entries in the AFM file and instead of stopping and complaining just left out the base character. There are more such errors, Zcaron, zcaron, Scaron and scaron lack the caron accent --- which reflects the fact that the entries in the Composites section of the AFM file lack the "caron". >I thought about sending a complaint to Linotype, but I just >do not know the technical background well enough: >May I really assume that any "Type 1 for PC" font can be used >with TeX? Yes. >Do other (non-TeX) users not require afm files, so that nobody >cares? Mostly they depend on PFM files in Windows or FOND resources on the Mac. But the bug is in the actual character outlines, so... >I cannot imagine that Linotype is distributing garbage; >perhaps fontinst isn't clever enough? In this case Linotype is distributing a font that is not free of errors. Also the hinting also is not good. No hint switching for a start. Regadrs, Berthold. Berthold K.P. Horn Cambridge, Massachusetts (M) 5-Feb-1999 15:04:23-GMT,1930;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from out4.ibm.net (out4.ibm.net [165.87.194.239]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id IAA16331 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:04:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from slip139-92-41-77.ut.nl.ibm.net (slip139-92-41-77.ut.nl.ibm.net [139.92.41.77]) by out4.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA132414 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:04:02 GMT Message-Id: <199902051504.PAA132414@out4.ibm.net> From: "Walter Schmidt" To: "tex-fonts" Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 16:03:05 +0100 Reply-To: "wschmi@ibm.net" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 1.96a (OS/2 Warp) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: bad afm file from Linotype On Fri, 05 Feb 1999 07:35:08 -0500, Berthold Horn wrote: >>CC idieresis 2 ; PCC dotlessi 0 0 ; PCC dieresis -8 0 ; > >Right, although, there is no reason for any software to look > ... Is it AFM2TFM that complains? I just tried to fix what I found. I did not check each single "bug" whether it was relevant. With the original afm file renamed to lubr8a.afm (I do know that this is wrong ;-) fontinst stumbled for the first time at INFO> run \transformfont from (lubr8a.afm ! Argument of \afm_line has an extra }. \par } }\endwrite \out_line ...mediate \write \out_file {#1} l.1219 CC scaron 2 ; PCC s 0 0 ; PCC 62 0 ; And, yes, afmtfm 8.1 failed, too: ! composite character name not found CC Zcaron 2 ; PCC Z 0 0 ; PCC 150 185 ; >In this case Linotype is distributing a font that is not free >of errors. Also the hinting is not good. Linotype ... I am terribly disappointed. Thank you for the helpful reply Walter 5-Feb-1999 15:40:27-GMT,2911;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from plot79.math.utah.edu (beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu [155.101.20.21]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id IAA17237; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:40:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from beebe@localhost) by plot79.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) id IAA02670; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:40:25 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:40:25 -0700 (MST) From: "Nelson H. F. Beebe" To: "tex-fonts" Cc: beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu X-US-Mail: "Center for Scientific Computing, Department of Mathematics, 322 INSCC, University of Utah, 155 S 1400 E RM 233, Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA" X-Telephone: +1 801 581 5254 X-FAX: +1 801 585 1640, +1 801 581 4148 X-URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe Subject: Broken Linotype font Message-ID: There seems ample evidence now that the Linotype font problem reported by Walter Schmidt on this list on Fri, 05 Feb 1999 02:19:34 +0100 is real: >> ... >> I have downloaded a free Type1 font from the Linotype site >> . They are distributing one >> variant (regular 430) of their new "Univers basic" font family. >> They call it a "Demo" but they say it's not "crippled" in any way. >> ... Let's do our colleagues at Linotype a favor and get the bug reported to them ASAP. From http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe/fonts/linotype.html I have this information: Linotype Inc URL: http://www.linotypelibrary.com http://www.fonts.de/fonts/ehtml/3533C409/fontstore.htm Linotype-Hell AG Siemenswall D-23107 Kiel Germany URL: http://www.fonts.de/ The question is, does anyone on this list have a personal contact inside Linotype? Such a person would be more likely to initiate a prompt fix than perhaps a bug report to their webmaster might. And a bug report from a tex-fonts list member representing a company that is in the font business might carry more weight than one from Jill.Q.Public@anyu.edu. As an aside, this is not the first instance of a commercial font being corrupted; http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe/fonts/deneba-fontnames.html documents a problem with one font on the Deneba CD-ROM. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 - - Center for Scientific Computing FAX: +1 801 585 1640, +1 801 581 4148 - - University of Utah Internet e-mail: beebe@math.utah.edu - - Department of Mathematics, 322 INSCC beebe@acm.org - - 155 S 1400 E RM 233 beebe@ieee.org - - Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5-Feb-1999 16:20:04-GMT,3152;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from xerxes.thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de (mailhost.thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de [134.99.64.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id JAA18471; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 09:19:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from attila.uni-duesseldorf.de (attila [134.99.64.144]) by xerxes.thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA00585; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:19:06 +0100 (MET) Received: by attila.uni-duesseldorf.de (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id RAA00782; Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:19:46 +0100 Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:19:46 +0100 Message-Id: <199902051619.RAA00782@attila.uni-duesseldorf.de> To: beebe@csc-sun.math.utah.edu CC: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu, beebe@csc-sun.math.utah.edu In-reply-to: Subject: Re: Broken Linotype font From: Ulrik Vieth Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: > Let's do our colleagues at Linotype a favor and get the bug reported > to them ASAP. From > http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe/fonts/linotype.html > I have this information: > Linotype Inc > URL: http://www.linotypelibrary.com http://www.fonts.de/fonts/ehtml/3533C409/fontstore.htm > Linotype-Hell AG > Siemenswall > D-23107 Kiel > Germany > URL: http://www.fonts.de/ > The question is, does anyone on this list have a personal contact > inside Linotype? Such a person would be more likely to initiate a > prompt fix than perhaps a bug report to their webmaster might. Sorry, no inside contact, but perhaps a better contact address: http://www.fonts.de/fonts/htm/00000000/cont_cont.htm Linotype Library GmbH Du-Pont-Str. 1 61352 Bad Homburg Germany Phone: +49 (0)180 - 5466 546 Fax: +49 (0)180 - 5466 329 Support: 0190 79 33 39 (DM 2,40/min) eMail: linotype@internet.de http://www.fonts.de/fonts/htm/00000000/comp_about.htm Linotype Library - a new company with a long tradition Since May 1st 1997 the Linotype Library - as a division of the Heidelberg Group - is a legally independant company. It carries on a more than 110 years old heritage. Famous names like Linotype-Hell AG, D. Stempel AG, Haas'sche Schriftgießerei and Deberny & Peignot are the roots of the Linotype Library. Ottmar Mergenthaler not to be forgotten, the inventor of the type setting machine. Mergenthaler's breakthrough soon became known as the Linotype. Quickly adopted by major newspapers around the world, the Linotype initiated a new freedom in the creation of everything from newspapers to books, from advertisements to a wide range of literature. With this invention Ottmar Mergenthaler could indeed be called the founder of the later Linotype group of companies. Hope this helps, Ulrik. 7-Feb-1999 14:04:02-GMT,2817;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id HAA09453 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 07:04:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from MAUI (maui.ai.mit.edu [128.52.37.105]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.9.1/AI2.7/ai.master.life:2.2) with SMTP id JAA25949; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 09:03:31 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990207084708.00a9dad0@mail.ai.mit.edu> Message-Id: <4.1.19990207084708.00a9dad0@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 09:04:13 -0500 To: linotype@internet.de From: Berthold Horn Subject: Re: Broken Linotype font Cc: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu, bkph@YandY.com In-Reply-To: <199902051619.RAA00782@attila.uni-duesseldorf.de> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear Linotype: I downloaded the sample font "LinotypeUnivers-BasicRegular" (ubr_____.pfb) >From "Special Offer" on your web site: http://www.linotypelibrary.com/f_special.htm http://195.63.153.131/fonts/htm/00000000/f_univers_download.htm I must say I am rather disappointed in the technical quality of this font. This font had problems with: (1) Aring, aring, Scaron, scaron, Zcaron, zcaron have only the base character, no accent; (2) iacute, icircumflex, idieresis, igrave are lacking the "dotlessi", only the accent is shown; (3) The corresponding AFM file entries in the Composite section are also wrong (missing glyph names); (4) The offsets of the accents given in the Compiste section of the AFM give poor placement; (5) The AFM width for "fraction" is wrong. It is given as 584 when the glyph actually has width 179; (6) The AFM width for the ligature "fi" is wrong. It is given as 457 when the actual glyph has width 584; (7) The Font BoundingBox is wrong - as the result of (1) above probably; (8) The hinting is poor. Several characters have vstem hints that are shifted (as if the sidebearing of the glyph may have been adjusted after hinting without moving the hints also); (9) Some glyphs are missing obvious hints that should be there; (10) There is no hint switching (needed for many lower case characters as well as 3, B, 8, ampersand etc.); There are several other minor issues, such as the appearance of comments with a single % before the %%EndComment DSC comment (a comment with a single % terminates the header comment section). Are the other members of this font family similarly affected? Berthold K.P. Horn Y&Y, Inc. 45 Walden Street Concord, MA 01742-2513 http://www.YandY.com mailto:bkph@YandY.com Berthold K.P. Horn Cambridge, Massachusetts (M) 9-Feb-1999 10:06:13-GMT,986;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from out4.ibm.net (out4.ibm.net [165.87.194.239]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id DAA03965 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 03:06:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from slip139-92-41-120.ut.nl.ibm.net (slip139-92-41-120.ut.nl.ibm.net [139.92.41.120]) by out4.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA109690 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 10:06:01 GMT Message-Id: <199902091006.KAA109690@out4.ibm.net> From: "Walter Schmidt" To: "tex-fonts" Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 00:23:26 +0100 Reply-To: "wschmi@ibm.net" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 1.96a (OS/2 Warp) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: How to create a better Euro symbol There is a document containing instructions for designing Euro symbols: http://www.linotypelibrary.com/images/eurodesign.pdf Walter 9-Feb-1999 10:40:11-GMT,1285;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.232.33]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id DAA04604 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 03:40:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.241.5]) by ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA17220 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 11:40:00 +0100 (MET) Received: (from bouche@localhost) by mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.7.6/8.6.9) id LAA19201; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 11:42:58 +0100 (MET) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 11:42:58 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199902091042.LAA19201@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> From: Thierry Bouche To: "tex-fonts" Subject: Re: How to create a better Euro symbol In-Reply-To: <199902091006.KAA109690@out4.ibm.net> References: <199902091006.KAA109690@out4.ibm.net> X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit » http://www.linotypelibrary.com/images/eurodesign.pdf ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Beware! This site has been recognised to be very low on quality;-) Thierry Bouche, Grenoble. 9-Feb-1999 10:49:46-GMT,1620;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from xerxes.thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de (xerxes.thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de [134.99.64.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id DAA04766 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 03:49:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from attila.uni-duesseldorf.de (attila [134.99.64.144]) by xerxes.thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA05990; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 11:48:38 +0100 (MET) Received: by attila.uni-duesseldorf.de (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA03133; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 11:49:22 +0100 Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 11:49:22 +0100 Message-Id: <199902091049.LAA03133@attila.uni-duesseldorf.de> To: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu, fontinst@cogs.susx.ac.uk Subject: ANN: fontinst homepage on www.tug.org From: Ulrik Vieth Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all, thanks to the cooperation of Karl Berry, Nelson Beebe and Alan Jeffrey, I have set up the framework of a fontinst homepage on http://www.tug.org/applications/fontinst/ So far, all you can find there are a few links pointing to CTAN locations of fontinst-related material and the mail archives of the fontinst and tex-fonts mailing lists. In future, more material could be added there, such as archives of previous fontinst releases, test versions of future releases, documentation, examples, etc. Let me know if you have anything you would like to have added. Cheers, Ulrik. P.S. This message to both lists is also a test to see whether the automatic mailing list archive works properly. 9-Feb-1999 11:31:12-GMT,1482;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id EAA05569 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 04:31:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Local (MMTA v2.2) with ESMTP; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 11:30:45 +0000 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA09970; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 11:30:41 GMT From: Chris Rowley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 11:30:41 +0000 (GMT) To: ex-fonts Subject: Re: How to create a better Euro symbol In-Reply-To: <199902091042.LAA19201@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> References: <199902091006.KAA109690@out4.ibm.net> <199902091042.LAA19201@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <14016.7128.267103.571288@fell.open.ac.uk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by csc-sun.math.utah.edu id EAA05570 Thierry Bouche wrote -- > » http://www.linotypelibrary.com/images/eurodesign.pdf > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > Beware! This site has been recognised to be very low on quality;-) > Thierry Bouche, Grenoble. > Reliable or not, at least it is fun and some attempt to look at it as a glyph and not a logo (whether or not this is a Good Thing). Thanks to Walter for finding it! chris 9-Feb-1999 15:17:24-GMT,1138;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id IAA09843 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 08:17:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from MAUI (maui.ai.mit.edu [128.52.37.105]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.9.1/AI2.7/ai.master.life:2.2) with SMTP id KAA27266; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 10:17:06 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990209101701.00ae45c0@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 10:17:57 -0500 To: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu, fontinst@cogs.susx.ac.uk From: Berthold Horn Subject: Re: ANN: fontinst homepage on www.tug.org In-Reply-To: <199902091049.LAA03133@attila.uni-duesseldorf.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:49 1999-02-09 +0100, Ulrik Vieth wrote: >Let me know if you have anything you would like to have added. Yes, how about alternatives that avoid that mess :-) http://www.YandY.com/usely1.htm http://www.YandY.com/ly1/htm e.g. Berthold K.P. Horn Cambridge, Massachusetts (M) 9-Feb-1999 16:01:42-GMT,1800;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from xerxes.thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de (mailhost.thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de [134.99.64.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id JAA10946 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 09:01:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from attila.uni-duesseldorf.de (attila [134.99.64.144]) by xerxes.thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA06753; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 17:00:43 +0100 (MET) Received: by attila.uni-duesseldorf.de (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id RAA03507; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 17:01:26 +0100 Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 17:01:26 +0100 Message-Id: <199902091601.RAA03507@attila.uni-duesseldorf.de> To: bkph@ai.mit.edu CC: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu, fontinst@cogs.susx.ac.uk In-reply-to: <4.1.19990209101701.00ae45c0@mail.ai.mit.edu> (message from Berthold Horn on Tue, 09 Feb 1999 10:17:57 -0500) Subject: Re: ANN: fontinst homepage on www.tug.org From: Ulrik Vieth Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: <4.1.19990209101701.00ae45c0@mail.ai.mit.edu> > At 11:49 1999-02-09 +0100, Ulrik Vieth wrote: >> Let me know if you have anything you would like to have added. > Yes, how about alternatives that avoid that mess :-) > http://www.YandY.com/usely1.htm > http://www.YandY.com/ly1/htm Sigh! If possible I would have liked to avoid getting drawn into a political discussion as to whether 8y is better than 8r. When asking for material I was primarily thinking of directly fontinst-related stuff rather than alternatives to fontinst althogether. Anyway, I might consider LY1 and Y&Y if/when I get to putting together a list of resources about font names, font encodings and suppliers, but not right now. Cheers, Ulrik. 9-Feb-1999 22:04:07-GMT,1527;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from out1.ibm.net (out1.ibm.net [165.87.194.252]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id PAA20787 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:04:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from slip139-92-14-73.nue.de.ibm.net (slip139-92-14-73.nue.de.ibm.net [139.92.14.73]) by out1.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA52072 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 22:04:02 GMT Message-Id: <199902092204.WAA52072@out1.ibm.net> From: "Walter Schmidt" To: "tex-fonts" Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 23:02:36 +0100 Reply-To: "wschmi@ibm.net" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 1.96a (OS/2 Warp) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: CM fonts updated? Hi, when reading the dante-FAQ http://www.dante.de/faq/de-tex-faq/ I just discovered a notice about minor updates having been applied to the CM fonts in august 1998. Well, I cannot remember any posting in CTAN-ANN... According to the FAQ, the following notice should now be in all .mf files: % THIS IS THE OFFICIAL COMPUTER MODERN SOURCE FILE cmr10.mf BY D E KNUTH. % IT MUST NOT BE MODIFIED IN ANY WAY UNLESS THE FILE NAME IS CHANGED! I have then fetched the complete directory /tex-archive/fonts/cm/mf from ftp.dante.de, only to see that all files were from 1995, they were identical to what I had already, and none had the above line. What's wrong here? Thanks for any clue Walter 10-Feb-1999 9:58:36-GMT,2638;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from xerxes.thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de (mailhost.thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de [134.99.64.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id CAA06261 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 02:58:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from attila.uni-duesseldorf.de (attila [134.99.64.144]) by xerxes.thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA07993; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 10:57:39 +0100 (MET) Received: by attila.uni-duesseldorf.de (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA03999; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 10:58:26 +0100 Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 10:58:26 +0100 Message-Id: <199902100958.KAA03999@attila.uni-duesseldorf.de> To: wschmi@ibm.net CC: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu CC: ctan@urz.uni-heidelberg.de In-reply-to: <199902092204.WAA52072@out1.ibm.net> (wschmi@ibm.net) Subject: Re: CM fonts updated? From: Ulrik Vieth Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: <199902092204.WAA52072@out1.ibm.net> Walter Schmidt writes on tex-fonts: > when reading the dante-FAQ http://www.dante.de/faq/de-tex-faq/ > I just discovered a notice about minor updates having been applied > to the CM fonts in august 1998. Well, I cannot remember any > posting in CTAN-ANN... Well, Knuth's announcement of updated files for TeX, MF, and CM fonts was in August 1998, but updates to CTAN archives are usually delayed (on purpose) so that last-minute bugs can be fixed before the buggy versions get distributed widely. IIRC, CTAN maintainers turned off automatic mirroring of labrea.stanford.edu after the new files were installed over there back in August, but some implementors (such as Thomas Esser) have started distributing the new files regardless. > According to the FAQ, the following notice should now be in all > .mf files: > % THIS IS THE OFFICIAL COMPUTER MODERN SOURCE FILE cmr10.mf BY D E KNUTH. > % IT MUST NOT BE MODIFIED IN ANY WAY UNLESS THE FILE NAME IS CHANGED! > I have then fetched the complete directory /tex-archive/fonts/cm/mf > from ftp.dante.de, only to see that all files were from 1995, they > were identical to what I had already, and none had the above line. > What's wrong here? Obviously, CTAN maintainers have forgotten to either resume mirroring labrea.stanford.edu or installing the new files, since Knuth never send out specific instructions to start distributing the new files. Since half a year has passed without any further bug reports, I guess it would be safe to do so. Cheers, Ulrik. P.S. It was me who suggested updating that passage of the de-tex-faq. 20-Feb-1999 10:02:43-GMT,1278;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id DAA14395 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 03:02:41 -0700 (MST) From: janl@math.uio.no Received: from mons.uio.no (6089@mons.uio.no [129.240.130.14]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id FAA27923 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 05:02:38 -0500 Received: from mons.uio.no (actually mons.uio.no [129.240.130.14]) by mons.uio.no with SMTP (PP); Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:02:33 +0100 Received: from nommo.uio.no ([129.240.222.179]) by mons.uio.no with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #1) id 10E9F0-00067V-00 for tex-fonts@tug.org; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:02:30 +0100 Received: by nommo.uio.no ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:02:59 +0100 Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:02:59 +0100 Message-Id: <199902201002.LAA09865@nommo.uio.no> To: tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: fontname postfixes I can't seem to find the rule for fontname postfix building: *8r is font encoded with 8r.enc. *8rn is ... ? *8rc ? *8rp ? If phvr8rn is Helvetica-Narrow encoded with 8r.enc, what is the name of the raw Helvetica-Narrow font (as in ptmr is the raw name of Times- Roman?). Thanks, Nicolai PS. Please answer to my address as well, I'm not on this list. 20-Feb-1999 12:46:03-GMT,1913;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id FAA17110 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 05:46:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from cs.umb.edu (cs.umb.edu [158.121.104.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA28774 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 07:45:59 -0500 Received: from hub.cs.umb.edu (hub.cs.umb.edu [158.121.104.161]) by cs.umb.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA10716; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 07:45:57 -0500 (EST) From: Karl Berry Received: (from karl@localhost) by hub.cs.umb.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA00427; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 07:45:57 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 07:45:57 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902201245.HAA00427@hub.cs.umb.edu> To: janl@math.uio.no Cc: tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: Re: fontname postfixes I can't seem to find the rule for fontname postfix building: It's not a postfix. It's just multiple variants or variant/width stuff. The multiple variants are listed in arbitrary (but alphabetical in my lists) order. This is in the manual. *8r is font encoded with 8r.enc. *8rn is ... ? *8rc ? *8rp ? It depends on what comes before the 8r. If it's just the supplier and typeface, then these have to interpreted as variants, and then n=informal, c=smallcaps, p=ornaments. If phvr8rn is Helvetica-Narrow encoded with 8r.enc, what is the name of the raw Helvetica-Narrow font phvrrn, in what I believe is your meaning of the word `raw'. (as in ptmr is the raw name of Times- Roman?). I assume you mean `raw' in the sense of using the default afm2tfm output encoding, rather than in the Tom R's original sense of no-kerns-or-ligatures. (A misfeature that I hope has been entirely eradicated by now.) The name of the latter would be rptmr for Times and rphvrrn for the former. Don't use them, ever :). 20-Feb-1999 19:40:27-GMT,3505;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id MAA24459 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 12:40:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from pat.uio.no (6089@pat.uio.no [129.240.130.16]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA30875 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 14:40:08 -0500 Received: from pat.uio.no (actually pat.uio.no [129.240.130.16]) by pat.uio.no with SMTP (PP); Sat, 20 Feb 1999 20:39:55 +0100 Received: from lugulbanda.uio.no ([129.240.222.99]) by pat.uio.no with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #1) id 10EIFj-0003v4-00; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 20:39:51 +0100 Received: from nommo.uio.no (nommo.uio.no [129.240.222.179]) by lugulbanda.uio.no ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 20:39:50 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199902201939.UAA31415@lugulbanda.uio.no> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Karl Berry cc: janl@math.uio.no, tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: Re: fontname postfixes In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 20 Feb 1999 07:45:57 EST." <199902201245.HAA00427@hub.cs.umb.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 20:40:25 +0100 From: Nicolai Langfeldt Karl Berry tastet: > I can't seem to find the rule for fontname postfix building: > > It's not a postfix. It's just multiple variants or variant/width stuff. > The multiple variants are listed in arbitrary (but alphabetical in my > lists) order. This is in the manual. > > *8r is font encoded with 8r.enc. > > *8rn is ... ? > *8rc ? > *8rp ? > > It depends on what comes before the 8r. If it's just the supplier and > typeface, then these have to interpreted as variants, and then > n=informal, c=smallcaps, p=ornaments. ... Ok, my head is spinning now :-) I have this insane ambition of making xdvik work with t1 fonts with minimal font maps and not too complex font decoding code inside xdvi either. I dislike psfonts.map of dvips. Maybe some of you (err, is tes-fonts just Karl?) can shed some light, come up with ideas. When xdvik sees 'ptmr8r' I want it to load the Times Roman font and 8r encode it. A naive first stab resulted in this heuristic (or whatever it's called): 1. Look for ptmr8r which is what the dvi file says it wants. (This is good for finding cmr10.pfb when the dvi file wants cmr10) 2. Not found? Is that ending a encoding we know? Yes 8r is a known encoding, remove it. We get ptmr. 3. Look for ptmr. 4. Found ptmr.pfa load and 8r encode it. 5. Font ready for rendering and painting. I have a tool to set up ghostscript and standard t1 fonts in the texmf hierarchy matching such a scheme and I have a xdvik set up which can find fonts named this way. A look in the map files tells me this would work with ... a lot of fonts. The exceptions that needs to be listed in a map file are few. The encodings would come from a map file such as this: % Ending Encoding file 8r 8r.enc 8y texnansi.enc More can be listed as they come into use. I also want to map the fonts that does not fit this scheme: ones that need extention, slanting, or have names that are not 'orthogonal' in the naive decoding scheme, such as phvr8rn for Helvetica-Narrow (n=informal?). In teTeXs current psfonts.map: - not 'orthogonal': 66 - extended: 26 - slanted: 27 Ok, that's not a _short_ list, but it's less than 311. Is this insane? Does code exist that would let me do this? Ideas? Nicolai 20-Feb-1999 21:10:14-GMT,2439;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id OAA26156 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 14:10:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA31380 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 16:10:07 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id VAA13098; hop 0; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 21:00:35 GMT Received: from srahtz (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Sat, 20 Feb 1999 21:09:55 +0000 X-Mailer: emacs 20.3.2 (via feedmail 9-beta-3 Q); VM 6.61 under Emacs 20.3.2 From: Sebastian Rahtz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14031.8422.123388.597823@srahtz> Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 20:53:58 +0000 (GMT) To: janl@math.uio.no Cc: karl@cs.umb.edu, tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: Re: fontname postfixes In-Reply-To: <199902201939.UAA31415@lugulbanda.uio.no> References: <199902201245.HAA00427@hub.cs.umb.edu> <199902201939.UAA31415@lugulbanda.uio.no> Nicolai Langfeldt writes: > I have this insane ambition of making xdvik work with t1 fonts with > minimal font maps and not too complex font decoding code inside xdvi > either. I dislike psfonts.map of dvips. why do you dislike it? it seems perverse not to use it > Maybe some of you (err, is > tes-fonts just Karl?) can shed some light, come up with ideas. no its not :-} > 2. Not found? Is that ending a encoding we know? Yes 8r is a known > encoding, remove it. We get ptmr. > 3. Look for ptmr. > 4. Found ptmr.pfa load and 8r encode it. my psfonts.map might say that "ptmr8a" can be satisied by loading Times-Roman.pfb what abut extended and slanted fonts? > The encodings would come from a map file such as this: > > % Ending Encoding file > 8r 8r.enc > 8y texnansi.enc > 8x? > Is this insane? Does code exist that would let me do this? Ideas? why not just borrow the code from dvips? that parses config.ps and reads psfonts.map (and other .map files; many of us work with several at once, you know) sebastian 21-Feb-1999 7:17:49-GMT,1519;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id AAA07653 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 00:17:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp1.fas.harvard.edu (IDENT:root@smtp1.fas.harvard.edu [140.247.30.81]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA05924 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 02:17:41 -0500 Received: from ice1.fas.harvard.edu (IDENT:maymounk@ice1.fas.harvard.edu [140.247.30.101]) by smtp1.fas.harvard.edu with ESMTP id WAA02387; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 22:13:12 -0500 (EST) Received: by ice1.fas.harvard.edu with ESMTP id WAA07105; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 22:13:12 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 22:13:12 -0500 (EST) From: Petar Maymounkov To: tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: TeX Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I'm sorry, I meant that I got the Bembo font from ftp.ctan.org > >Hello, > >Could you tell me where I can find more info on installing new fonts on a >running teTeX system? > >In particular I want to install the monotype Bembo font from your ftp, >but >it has many subdirectories with many files, and I don't know how exactly >to approach the problem. > >Thank You >Petar Maymounkov ________________________________________________ Petar Maymounkov Harvard University 166 Quincy Mail Center Cambridge, MA 02138-7530 U.S.A. (617) 493-7534 21-Feb-1999 7:20:23-GMT,1439;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id AAA07696 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 00:20:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp4.fas.harvard.edu (IDENT:root@smtp4.fas.harvard.edu [140.247.30.84]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA05932 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 02:20:18 -0500 Received: from ice1.fas.harvard.edu (IDENT:maymounk@ice1.fas.harvard.edu [140.247.30.101]) by smtp4.fas.harvard.edu with ESMTP id WAA06473; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 22:08:29 -0500 (EST) Received: by ice1.fas.harvard.edu with ESMTP id WAA03500; Sat, 20 Feb 1999 22:08:28 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 22:08:28 -0500 (EST) From: Petar Maymounkov To: tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: TeX Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello, Could you tell me where I can find more info on installing new fonts on a running teTeX system? In particular I want to install the monotype Bembo font from your ftp, but it has many subdirectories with many files, and I don't know how exactly to approach the problem. Thank You Petar Maymounkov ________________________________________________ Petar Maymounkov Harvard University 166 Quincy Mail Center Cambridge, MA 02138-7530 U.S.A. (617) 493-7534 21-Feb-1999 13:06:22-GMT,1310;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id GAA13687 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 06:06:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from cs.umb.edu (cs.umb.edu [158.121.104.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA11822 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 08:06:19 -0500 Received: from hub.cs.umb.edu (hub.cs.umb.edu [158.121.104.161]) by cs.umb.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA22682; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 08:06:18 -0500 (EST) From: Karl Berry Received: (from karl@localhost) by hub.cs.umb.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA07960; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 08:06:17 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 08:06:17 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902211306.IAA07960@hub.cs.umb.edu> To: janl@math.uio.no Cc: tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: Re: fontname postfixes I dislike psfonts.map of dvips. Sorry, but I don't think there's a rational alternative. I don't think it's going to be reliable/precise enough to try to parse the font names. It would be nice if it was, but it's not. Sorry. For example, for automatically-created expanded/condensed fonts, you're not going to know how much to expand/condense without reading psfonts.map. My recommendation is to steal code from dvips as needed. 21-Feb-1999 14:30:58-GMT,1999;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id HAA15147 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 07:30:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA12355 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 09:30:56 -0500 Received: from MAUI (maui.ai.mit.edu [128.52.37.105]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.9.1/AI2.7/ai.master.life:2.2) with SMTP id JAA03625; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 09:30:47 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990221092400.00acb720@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 09:30:38 -0500 To: Karl Berry , janl@math.uio.no From: Berthold Horn Subject: Re: fontname postfixes Cc: tex-fonts@tug.org In-Reply-To: <199902211306.IAA07960@hub.cs.umb.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:06 1999-02-21 -0500, Karl Berry wrote: > I dislike psfonts.map of dvips. >Sorry, but I don't think there's a rational alternative. Well, some systems get along without :-) And it removes one more level of "user error" potential. (1) One thing psfonts.map does is provide you with the PS FontName. But this can be read from the font file itself, so no real need for that. (2) Another thing it does is map from the file names for the TFM files to the file names for the corresponding PFB files. This is not needed if they have the same name. (3) Another feature of psfonts.map is to say how to reencode text fonts. Again, since one normally has to use the same text font encoding throghout, this can be done automatically by a global setting of encoding vector for all text fonts. Of course, if you are already renaming the files from the names used by the vendor, then you may as well make some more work for yourself :-) Berthold K.P. Horn Cambridge, Massachusetts (M) 21-Feb-1999 17:51:58-GMT,1276;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from out5.ibm.net (out5.ibm.net [165.87.194.243]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id KAA18737 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 10:51:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from slip139-92-14-124.nue.de.ibm.net (slip139-92-14-124.nue.de.ibm.net [139.92.14.124]) by out5.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA44124 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 17:51:52 GMT Message-Id: <199902211751.RAA44124@out5.ibm.net> From: "Walter Schmidt" To: "tex-fonts" Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 18:51:00 +0100 Reply-To: "wschmi@ibm.net" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 1.96a (OS/2 Warp) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: fontname postfixes On Sun, 21 Feb 1999 09:30:38 -0500, Berthold Horn wrote: >> I dislike psfonts.map of dvips. > >>Sorry, but I don't think there's a rational alternative. > >Well, some systems get along without :-) >And it removes one more level of "user error" potential. At first sight: yes The map file may, however, specify slanting or narrowing of fonts. Is there an alternative place where this information can be taken from? Walter 21-Feb-1999 19:10:21-GMT,2014;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id MAA20256 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 12:10:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from MAUI (maui.ai.mit.edu [128.52.37.105]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.9.1/AI2.7/ai.master.life:2.2) with SMTP id OAA15583; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 14:10:17 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990221140658.00aa4a20@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 14:10:08 -0500 To: "wschmi@ibm.net" , "tex-fonts" From: Berthold Horn Subject: Re: fontname postfixes In-Reply-To: <199902211751.RAA44124@out5.ibm.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 18:51 1999-02-21 +0100, you wrote: >>Well, some systems get along without :-) >>And it removes one more level of "user error" potential. >At first sight: yes >The map file may, however, specify slanting or narrowing >of fonts. Is there an alternative place where this information >can be taken from? I personally don't like algorithmic transformations of this nature. If the designer wanted a condensed version he/she would have designed one. Ditto for slanted, smallcaps etc. The fake ones do not look typographically correct. In any case, this - unlike other things like reencoding - is PS specific. That is, many rasterizers do not provide a convenient mechanism (or any mechanism) to implement the equivalent of these PS transformations. So they tie you to a "PS only" world. There is another world out there. Keep in mind that what are called "PostScript fonts" on comp.text.tex are called "ATM fonts" in DTP newsgroups. Neither of which is good nomenclature. Type 1 would be better. And these Type 1 fonts are most often used *without* any PS interpreter. Regards, Berthold. Berthold K.P. Horn Cambridge, Massachusetts (M) 21-Feb-1999 20:20:48-GMT,1886;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from out5.ibm.net (out5.ibm.net [165.87.194.243]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id NAA21627 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 13:20:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from slip139-92-14-31.nue.de.ibm.net (slip139-92-14-31.nue.de.ibm.net [139.92.14.31]) by out5.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA11168 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 20:20:43 GMT Message-Id: <199902212020.UAA11168@out5.ibm.net> From: "Walter Schmidt" To: "tex-fonts" Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 21:20:21 +0100 Reply-To: "wschmi@ibm.net" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 1.96a (OS/2 Warp) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: fontname postfixes On Sun, 21 Feb 1999 14:10:08 -0500, Berthold Horn wrote: >I personally don't like algorithmic transformations of this nature. >If the designer wanted a condensed version he/she would >have designed one. Ditto for slanted, smallcaps etc. The >fake ones do not look typographically correct. I agree, as far as text fonts are concerned. OTOH you cannot provide "faked" math fonts without such tricks; see e.g. the fonts used by mathptmx.sty or mathpple.sty. They rely heavily on "artificial" sloping. >In any case, this - unlike other things like reencoding - is PS >specific. That is, many rasterizers do not provide a convenient >mechanism (or any mechanism) to implement the equivalent of >these PS transformations. Does this mean that DVI previewers which are ATM-based cannot display this? This could explain various error reports concerning bad display of the slanted Euler fonts, which mathpple uses for the greek letters. (I'm using Ghostscript/GSview for previewing, so I never get aware of any such problems myself.) Walter 21-Feb-1999 21:58:36-GMT,2748;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id OAA23674 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 14:58:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from MAUI (maui.ai.mit.edu [128.52.37.105]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.9.1/AI2.7/ai.master.life:2.2) with SMTP id QAA24364; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 16:58:33 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990221164835.00a98b70@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 16:58:23 -0500 To: "wschmi@ibm.net" , "tex-fonts" From: Berthold Horn Subject: Re: fontname postfixes In-Reply-To: <199902212020.UAA11168@out5.ibm.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 21:20 1999-02-21 +0100, Walter Schmidt wrote: >On Sun, 21 Feb 1999 14:10:08 -0500, Berthold Horn wrote: >>I personally don't like algorithmic transformations of this nature. >>If the designer wanted a condensed version he/she would >>have designed one. Ditto for slanted, smallcaps etc. The >>fake ones do not look typographically correct. >I agree, as far as text fonts are concerned. >OTOH you cannot provide "faked" math fonts without such tricks; >see e.g. the fonts used by mathptmx.sty or mathpple.sty. >They rely heavily on "artificial" sloping. And are ugly as a result. I don't know why using ugly math fonts is any more noble than using ugly text fonts. If I am going to mess up my fonts I prefer to do it using appropriate tools to actually change the font itself. Then I can do a little to make them look a bit more reasonable. >Does this mean that DVI previewers which are ATM-based cannot >display this? This could explain various error reports concerning >bad display of the slanted Euler fonts, which mathpple uses for >the greek letters. (I'm using Ghostscript/GSview for previewing, >so I never get aware of any such problems myself.) It depends on what the system supports and what the previewer does. Generally speaking they do not support fake condensing. They may support fake italic and fake bold (which DVIPS does not do - although I have the same opinion about the quality...) Typically when you use a style file with a microscopic footnote saying "driver support required" you are dealing with something that will work with DVIPS, and may or may not be supported otherwise. Raw PostScript code for example, does not work expect on a PS device, unless the driver recognizes it and translates it back into something more general - provided that feature is supported. regards, Berthold. Berthold K.P. Horn Cambridge, Massachusetts (M) 21-Feb-1999 22:43:49-GMT,1664;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id PAA24541 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 15:43:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from ns.vsu.ru (root@ns.vsu.ru [62.76.169.12]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA18063 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 17:43:37 -0500 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by ns.vsu.ru (8.9.1/8.9.1) with UUCP id BAA21357; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 01:42:39 +0300 Received: (from vvv@localhost) by vvv.vsu.ru (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA23269; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 01:27:43 +0300 To: Berthold Horn Cc: Karl Berry , janl@math.uio.no, tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: Re: fontname postfixes References: <4.1.19990221092400.00acb720@mail.ai.mit.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Vladimir Volovich Date: 22 Feb 1999 01:27:42 +0300 In-Reply-To: Berthold Horn's message of "Sun, 21 Feb 1999 09:30:38 -0500" Message-ID: Lines: 13 User-Agent: Gnus/5.070077 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.77) Emacs/20.3 "BH" == Berthold Horn writes: BH> (3) Another feature of psfonts.map is to say how to reencode text BH> fonts. Again, since one normally has to use the same text font BH> encoding throghout, this can be done automatically by a global BH> setting of encoding vector for all text fonts. think of cyrillic users :) they have to use often at least two encodings: some latin (T1 or OT1) and some cyrillic (T2A, T2B, T2C, OT2, etc). so it is not possible/good to specify some global setting for encoding. Best regards, -- Vladimir. 22-Feb-1999 8:23:19-GMT,2285;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id BAA05992 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 01:23:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from pat.uio.no (6089@pat.uio.no [129.240.130.16]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id DAA27144 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 03:23:17 -0500 Received: from pat.uio.no (actually pat.uio.no [129.240.130.16]) by pat.uio.no with SMTP (PP); Mon, 22 Feb 1999 09:22:55 +0100 Received: from lugulbanda.uio.no ([129.240.222.99]) by pat.uio.no with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #1) id 10Eqde-0006wB-00; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 09:22:50 +0100 Received: from nommo.uio.no (nommo.uio.no [129.240.222.179]) by lugulbanda.uio.no ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 09:22:50 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199902220822.JAA21607@lugulbanda.uio.no> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Vladimir Volovich cc: Berthold Horn , Karl Berry , janl@math.uio.no, tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: Re: fontname postfixes In-reply-to: Your message of "22 Feb 1999 01:27:42 +0300." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 09:23:49 +0100 From: Nicolai Langfeldt Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by csc-sun.math.utah.edu id BAA05993 Vladimir Volovich tastet: > "BH" == Berthold Horn writes: > > BH> (3) Another feature of psfonts.map is to say how to reencode text > BH> fonts. Again, since one normally has to use the same text font > BH> encoding throghout, this can be done automatically by a global > BH> setting of encoding vector for all text fonts. > > think of cyrillic users :) they have to use often at least two > encodings: some latin (T1 or OT1) and some cyrillic (T2A, T2B, T2C, > OT2, etc). so it is not possible/good to specify some global setting > for encoding. I wasn't going to. xdvik with type1 support will handle slanting and extentions and multipele encodings. My e-mails seem to have been less than clear. The thing I was going on about was 400 line fontmaps when 50 lines of exceptions would suffice (at least in western europe). Nicolai 22-Feb-1999 9:27:49-GMT,1745;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id CAA07215 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 02:27:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from regulus.informatik.uni-hannover.de (te@regulus.informatik.uni-hannover.de [130.75.26.7]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA28439 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 04:27:40 -0500 Received: (from te@localhost) by regulus.informatik.uni-hannover.de (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id KAA24560; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:27:14 +0100 (MET) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:27:14 +0100 (MET) From: Thomas Esser Message-Id: <199902220927.KAA24560@regulus.informatik.uni-hannover.de> To: janl@math.uio.no, karl@cs.umb.edu Cc: tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: Re: fontname postfixes > I dislike psfonts.map of dvips. > > Sorry, but I don't think there's a rational alternative. I don't think > it's going to be reliable/precise enough to try to parse the font names. > It would be nice if it was, but it's not. Sorry. For example, for > automatically-created expanded/condensed fonts, you're not going to know > how much to expand/condense without reading psfonts.map. > > My recommendation is to steal code from dvips as needed. I agree with Karl. Please, don't introduce any other scheme or any other map file. Installing ps fonts is complicated enough. If you "invent" some incompatible scheme for xdvik, things will become even more difficult. The code for parsing psfonts.map is already there. gsftopk even reads the same files as dvips -Pgsftopk would do (i.e. it ready config.ps and *all* map files included from there and it reads ~/.dvipsrc, ...). Thomas 22-Feb-1999 10:58:12-GMT,1730;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id DAA08933 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 03:58:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from xerxes.thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de (xerxes.thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de [134.99.64.10]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA30283 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 05:58:08 -0500 Received: from attila.uni-duesseldorf.de (attila [134.99.64.144]) by xerxes.thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA04703; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:57:05 +0100 (MET) Received: by attila.uni-duesseldorf.de (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA13646; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:58:03 +0100 Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:58:03 +0100 Message-Id: <199902221058.LAA13646@attila.uni-duesseldorf.de> To: janl@math.uio.no CC: tex-fonts@tug.org In-reply-to: <199902201002.LAA09865@nommo.uio.no> (janl@math.uio.no) Subject: Re: fontname postfixes From: Ulrik Vieth Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: <199902201002.LAA09865@nommo.uio.no> > I can't seem to find the rule for fontname postfix building: > *8r is font encoded with 8r.enc. right > *8rn is ... ? 8r narrow > *8rc ? 8r condensed > *8rp ? 8r compressed (see fontname/width.map for all possible combinations) > If phvr8rn is Helvetica-Narrow encoded with 8r.enc, what is the > name of the raw Helvetica-Narrow font phvr8an (assuming that the raw encoding is 8a = Adobe standard) > (as in ptmr is the raw name of > Times- Roman?). no that should be ptmr8a as well (ususually used for AFM and PFB) Hope this helps. Cheers, Ulrik. 22-Feb-1999 11:22:24-GMT,4144;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id EAA09427 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 04:22:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from xerxes.thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de (xerxes.thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de [134.99.64.10]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA30959 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 06:22:21 -0500 Received: from attila.uni-duesseldorf.de (attila [134.99.64.144]) by xerxes.thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA04780; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:20:44 +0100 (MET) Received: by attila.uni-duesseldorf.de (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA13666; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:21:42 +0100 Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:21:42 +0100 Message-Id: <199902221121.MAA13666@attila.uni-duesseldorf.de> To: janl@math.uio.no CC: karl@cs.umb.edu, tex-fonts@tug.org In-reply-to: <199902201939.UAA31415@lugulbanda.uio.no> (message from Nicolai Langfeldt on Sat, 20 Feb 1999 20:40:25 +0100) Subject: Re: fontname postfixes From: Ulrik Vieth Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: <199902201939.UAA31415@lugulbanda.uio.no> > Ok, my head is spinning now :-) > I have this insane ambition of making xdvik work with t1 fonts with > minimal font maps and not too complex font decoding code inside xdvi > either. I dislike psfonts.map of dvips. Maybe some of you (err, is > tes-fonts just Karl?) can shed some light, come up with ideas. > When xdvik sees 'ptmr8r' I want it to load the Times Roman font > and 8r encode it. A naive first stab resulted in this heuristic > (or whatever it's called): > 1. Look for ptmr8r which is what the dvi file says it wants. > (This is good for finding cmr10.pfb when the dvi file wants cmr10) > 2. Not found? Is that ending a encoding we know? Yes 8r is a known > encoding, remove it. We get ptmr. > 3. Look for ptmr. > 4. Found ptmr.pfa load and 8r encode it. > 5. Font ready for rendering and painting. Wrong. 2. Not found? Skip over the config file line until you find "SomeEncoding ReEncodeFont". 3. Look as the next statement: Does it say "<8r.enc"? If so, look for 8r.enc and use that file to reencode the font later. 4. Have we reached the end of the line? 4a.) If no, look at the next statement: Does it say " I have a tool to set up ghostscript and standard t1 fonts in the texmf > hierarchy matching such a scheme and I have a xdvik set up which can > find fonts named this way. > A look in the map files tells me this would work with ... a lot of fonts. > The exceptions that needs to be listed in a map file are few. > The encodings would come from a map file such as this: > % Ending Encoding file > 8r 8r.enc > 8y texnansi.enc Good idea, but maybe you should add another column for the encoding name: % Ending Encoding name Encoding file 8a StandardEncoding 8a.enc 8r TeXBase1Encoding 8r.enc 8y TeXnANSIEncoding texnansi.enc 8t T1Encoding tex256.enc > More can be listed as they come into use. I also want to map the fonts > that does not fit this scheme: ones that need extention, slanting, or > have names that are not 'orthogonal' in the naive decoding scheme, such > as phvr8rn for Helvetica-Narrow (n=informal?). No, n=narrow? > In teTeXs current psfonts.map: > - not 'orthogonal': 66 > - extended: 26 > - slanted: 27 > Ok, that's not a _short_ list, but it's less than 311. SlantFont will be a common problem, since you'll typically get two slanted fonts for every four normal fonts per typeface family. ExtendFont, however, will be only be a problem when using faked narrow fonts, which are not produced by default in fontinst. > Is this insane? Does code exist that would let me do this? Ideas? I recommend looking into dvips and or pdftex sources for code related to parsing map files. Cheers, Ulrik. 22-Feb-1999 11:39:19-GMT,3343;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id EAA09697 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 04:39:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from pat.uio.no (6089@pat.uio.no [129.240.130.16]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id GAA31296 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 06:39:17 -0500 Received: from pat.uio.no (actually pat.uio.no [129.240.130.16]) by pat.uio.no with SMTP (PP); Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:37:50 +0100 Received: from lugulbanda.uio.no ([129.240.222.99]) by pat.uio.no with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #1) id 10Eteu-0006Pz-00; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:36:20 +0100 Received: from nommo.uio.no (nommo.uio.no [129.240.222.179]) by lugulbanda.uio.no ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:36:17 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199902221136.MAA24428@lugulbanda.uio.no> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Ulrik Vieth cc: janl@math.uio.no, karl@cs.umb.edu, tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: Re: fontname postfixes In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:21:42 +0100." <199902221121.MAA13666@attila.uni-duesseldorf.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:37:17 +0100 From: Nicolai Langfeldt Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by csc-sun.math.utah.edu id EAA09698 Ulrik Vieth tastet: > > 1. Look for ptmr8r which is what the dvi file says it wants. > > (This is good for finding cmr10.pfb when the dvi file wants cmr10) > > > 2. Not found? Is that ending a encoding we know? Yes 8r is a known > > encoding, remove it. We get ptmr. > > 3. Look for ptmr. > > 4. Found ptmr.pfa load and 8r encode it. > > 5. Font ready for rendering and painting. > > Wrong. > > 2. Not found? Skip over the config file line until you find > "SomeEncoding ReEncodeFont". > 3. Look as the next statement: Does it say "<8r.enc"? If so, > look for 8r.enc and use that file to reencode the font later. > 4. Have we reached the end of the line? > 4a.) If no, look at the next statement: Does it say " (or some other font name)? Use it. > 4a.) Otherwise, this must be a built-in font, so assume 8a encoding, > and look for ptmr8a.pfa or ptmr8a.pfb. ... ok. Earlier I didn't understand the meaning and use of the 8a ending, Thomas and your mail got me that clue. > > The encodings would come from a map file such as this: > > > % Ending Encoding file > > 8r 8r.enc > > 8y texnansi.enc > > Good idea, but maybe you should add another column for the encoding name: > > % Ending Encoding name Encoding file > 8a StandardEncoding 8a.enc > 8r TeXBase1Encoding 8r.enc > 8y TeXnANSIEncoding texnansi.enc > 8t T1Encoding tex256.enc Ok, I didn't think of that since t1lib does not need the encoding name, it just needs a file to swalow. > > Is this insane? Does code exist that would let me do this? Ideas? > > I recommend looking into dvips and or pdftex sources for code related > to parsing map files. *nod* I got the clue eventualy :-) I'm using the psfonts.map reading code from dvips now. ... It still dosn't mean we can use the dvips map files completely unmodified though. I think. Nicolai 22-Feb-1999 12:39:25-GMT,2261;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id FAA10805 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 05:39:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA32643 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 07:39:23 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id MAA10044; hop 0; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:29:50 GMT Received: from srahtz (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:39:10 +0000 X-Mailer: emacs 20.3.2 (via feedmail 9-beta-3 Q); VM 6.61 under Emacs 20.3.2 From: Sebastian Rahtz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14033.18584.332110.849614@srahtz> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:07:52 +0000 (GMT) To: bkph@ai.mit.edu Cc: karl@cs.umb.edu, janl@math.uio.no, tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: Re: fontname postfixes In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990221092400.00acb720@mail.ai.mit.edu> References: <199902211306.IAA07960@hub.cs.umb.edu> <4.1.19990221092400.00acb720@mail.ai.mit.edu> Berthold Horn writes: > (2) Another thing it does is map from the file names for the TFM > files to the file names for the corresponding PFB files. > This is not needed if they have the same name. and if they dont have the same name? if you want "ptmr8a" to refer to tim_____.pfb, or whatever they call it, on a disk shared with Windows? > (3) Another feature of psfonts.map is to say how to reencode text fonts. > Again, since one normally has to use the same text font ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > encoding throghout, this can be done automatically ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ but not everyone does > Of course, if you are already renaming the files from the names > used by the vendor, then you may as well make some more work > for yourself :-) you want me to use "tim_____" in my documents? sebastian 22-Feb-1999 12:45:22-GMT,2632;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id FAA10911 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 05:45:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail-out-0.tiac.net (mail-out-0.tiac.net [199.0.65.247]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA32715 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 07:45:21 -0500 Received: from mail-out-3.tiac.net (mail-out-3.tiac.net [199.0.65.15]) by mail-out-0.tiac.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA07315; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 07:45:16 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bkph@ai.mit.edu) Received: from DENALI (p194.tc2.state.MA.tiac.com [207.60.242.195]) by mail-out-3.tiac.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA06681; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 07:45:14 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bkph@ai.mit.edu) Message-Id: <4.1.19990222074256.00aa3ae0@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 07:45:27 -0500 To: Sebastian Rahtz From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" Subject: Re: fontname postfixes Cc: karl@cs.umb.edu, janl@math.uio.no, tex-fonts@tug.org In-Reply-To: <14033.18584.332110.849614@srahtz> References: <4.1.19990221092400.00acb720@mail.ai.mit.edu> <199902211306.IAA07960@hub.cs.umb.edu> <4.1.19990221092400.00acb720@mail.ai.mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:07 PM 99/02/22 +0000, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >Berthold Horn writes: > > (2) Another thing it does is map from the file names for the TFM > > files to the file names for the corresponding PFB files. > > This is not needed if they have the same name. >and if they dont have the same name? if you want "ptmr8a" to >refer to tim_____.pfb, or whatever they call it, on a disk >shared with Windows? This can be taken care of by aliasing in texfonts.map > > (3) Another feature of psfonts.map is to say how to reencode text fonts. > > Again, since one normally has to use the same text font > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > encoding throghout, this can be done automatically > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >but not everyone does True, but isn't it in fact awkward in LaTeX 2e to use more than one text font encoding in the same job? > > Of course, if you are already renaming the files from the names > > used by the vendor, then you may as well make some more work > > for yourself :-) >you want me to use "tim_____" in my documents? You want me to have to rename all my files to ptmrxyz8y or whatever :-)? Regards, Berthold. Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu 22-Feb-1999 13:00:30-GMT,2014;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id GAA11237 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 06:00:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA32730 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 08:00:27 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id MAA10816; hop 0; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:50:55 GMT Received: from srahtz (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:59:57 +0000 X-Mailer: emacs 20.3.2 (via feedmail 9-beta-3 Q); VM 6.61 under Emacs 20.3.2 From: Sebastian Rahtz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14033.21063.850988.713285@srahtz> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:49:11 +0000 (GMT) To: bkph@ai.mit.edu Cc: karl@cs.umb.edu, janl@math.uio.no, tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: Re: fontname postfixes In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990222074256.00aa3ae0@mail.ai.mit.edu> References: <4.1.19990221092400.00acb720@mail.ai.mit.edu> <199902211306.IAA07960@hub.cs.umb.edu> <4.1.19990222074256.00aa3ae0@mail.ai.mit.edu> Berthold K.P. Horn writes: > >and if they dont have the same name? if you want "ptmr8a" to > >refer to tim_____.pfb, or whatever they call it, on a disk > >shared with Windows? > > This can be taken care of by aliasing in texfonts.map ah yes so it can :-} > True, but isn't it in fact awkward in LaTeX 2e to use more than one > text font encoding in the same job? is it? i had not thought so > >you want me to use "tim_____" in my documents? > > You want me to have to rename all my files to ptmrxyz8y or whatever :-)? er, yes.... sebastian 22-Feb-1999 15:06:17-GMT,1749;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from plot79.math.utah.edu (beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu [155.101.20.21]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id IAA14156; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 08:06:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from beebe@localhost) by plot79.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) id IAA29523; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 08:06:16 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 08:06:16 -0700 (MST) From: "Nelson H. F. Beebe" To: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Cc: beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu X-US-Mail: "Center for Scientific Computing, Department of Mathematics, 322 INSCC, University of Utah, 155 S 1400 E RM 233, Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA" X-Telephone: +1 801 581 5254 X-FAX: +1 801 585 1640, +1 801 581 4148 X-URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe Subject: Major update of font index Message-ID: I've just completed a major update of my font index at http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe/fonts/fonts-to-vendors.html The font count has increased from 14,480 to 20,062, and the vendor count from 28 to 30. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 - - Center for Scientific Computing FAX: +1 801 585 1640, +1 801 581 4148 - - University of Utah Internet e-mail: beebe@math.utah.edu - - Department of Mathematics, 322 INSCC beebe@acm.org - - 155 S 1400 E RM 233 beebe@ieee.org - - Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22-Feb-1999 17:07:57-GMT,1735;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id KAA18286 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:07:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (mmdf@salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA04869 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:07:49 -0500 Received: from lanczos.maths.tcd.ie by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 22 Feb 99 17:07:43 +0000 (GMT) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:07:41 +0000 From: Timothy Murphy To: tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: Re: fontname postfixes Message-ID: <19990222170741.B80887@lanczos.maths.tcd.ie> References: <199902220927.KAA24560@regulus.informatik.uni-hannover.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <199902220927.KAA24560@regulus.informatik.uni-hannover.de>; from Thomas Esser on Mon, Feb 22, 1999 at 10:27:14AM +0100 Sender: tim@maths.tcd.ie On Mon, Feb 22, 1999 at 10:27:14AM +0100, Thomas Esser wrote: > I agree with Karl. Please, don't introduce any other scheme or any other > map file. Installing ps fonts is complicated enough. If you "invent" some > incompatible scheme for xdvik, things will become even more difficult. I agree that there should not be any other scheme, but please can you not write (or at least allow) psfonts.map in standard key=value format, eg source=squiggle.pbf,encoding=xyz.enc,... At present it is unintelligible except to a handful of cognoscenti. -- Timothy Murphy e-mail: tim@maths.tcd.ie tel: +353-1-2842366 s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland 22-Feb-1999 18:25:15-GMT,3920;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from plot79.math.utah.edu (beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu [155.101.20.21]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id LAA20759; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:25:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from beebe@localhost) by plot79.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) id LAA01013; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:25:14 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:25:14 -0700 (MST) From: "Nelson H. F. Beebe" To: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Cc: beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu X-US-Mail: "Center for Scientific Computing, Department of Mathematics, 322 INSCC, University of Utah, 155 S 1400 E RM 233, Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA" X-Telephone: +1 801 581 5254 X-FAX: +1 801 585 1640, +1 801 581 4148 X-URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe Subject: Re: fontname postfixes Message-ID: Timothy Murphy writes: >> ... can you not write (or at least allow) psfonts.map in standard key=value format >> ... At present it is unintelligible except to a handful of cognoscenti. Here is the grammar I've implemented in my DVI drivers to define the psfonts.map format (I didn't design the format, and had I done so, it would not have looked like it does), taken from the comment header in the C source file that parses it; perhaps it will make psfonts.map more intelligible: >> ... >> Tokens in the PSMAPFILE file are separated by whitespace, and take the >> form of one of these regular-expressions (to be matched in this >> order): >> >> (1) Comment: >> [%#*]*$ >> ^[ \t]*$ >> >> (2) PostScript header file name (zero, one, or two times): >> + >> >> (3) PostScript literal text: >> * >> >> (4) Font name: >> + >> >> For (3), the surrounding quotation marks are excluded from the >> returned token. >> >> A backslash is an escape character that causes the following character >> to be interpreted specially; the escape mechanism matches that of >> Standard C: >> >> \\ backslash >> \a alarm (bell) >> \b backspace >> \f formfeed >> \n newline >> \o \oo \ooo (o matches [0-7]) octal character value >> \r carriage return >> \t horizontal tab >> \v vertical tab >> \xhhhh... (h matches [0-9a-fA-F]) hexadecimal character value >> \ >> >> Each line is expected to contain >> >> TeX-font-name opt-PS-font-name > >> The order of the tokens is arbitrary, and those marked by opt- are >> optional. >> >> After discarding comments, the first token which is not >> PS-encoding-file-name, PS-file-name or PS-text is TeX-font-name. If >> no PS-font-name is supplied, it is the same as the TeX-font-name. >> >> Here are some sample entries: >> >> Times-Roman >> rptmr Times-Roman >> rptmrre Times-Expanded "/Times-Roman 1.2 ExtendFont" >> rpadr AGaramond-Regular > rpopro Optima-Oblique > pbbro8r MBembo " .167 SlantFont TeXBase1Encoding ReEncodeFont " <8r.enc > pgsl8r GillSans-Light "TeXBase1Encoding ReEncodeFont " <8r.enc > ... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 - - Center for Scientific Computing FAX: +1 801 585 1640, +1 801 581 4148 - - University of Utah Internet e-mail: beebe@math.utah.edu - - Department of Mathematics, 322 INSCC beebe@acm.org - - 155 S 1400 E RM 233 beebe@ieee.org - - Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22-Feb-1999 21:05:10-GMT,1859;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id OAA25453 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:05:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA11532 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 16:05:06 -0500 Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Local (MMTA v2.2) with ESMTP; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 16:39:48 +0000 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA21762; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 16:39:35 GMT From: Chris Rowley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 16:39:34 +0000 (GMT) To: Sebastian Rahtz Cc: bkph@ai.mit.edu, karl@cs.umb.edu, janl@math.uio.no, tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: Re: fontname postfixes In-Reply-To: <14033.21063.850988.713285@srahtz> References: <4.1.19990221092400.00acb720@mail.ai.mit.edu> <199902211306.IAA07960@hub.cs.umb.edu> <4.1.19990222074256.00aa3ae0@mail.ai.mit.edu> <14033.21063.850988.713285@srahtz> X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <14033.34431.66161.474955@fell.open.ac.uk> > > > True, but isn't it in fact awkward in LaTeX 2e to use more than one > > text font encoding in the same job? > is it? i had not thought so You can use any encoding that is set-up properly for its purpose. What we cannot support (since TeX cannot) is accurate hyphenation incompatible encodings are used in the same paragraph. At present, therefore, standard LaTeX contains support only for "T1-compatible" encodings (this includes the new T2* encodings). Note that this affects only tfm/vf encodings, not the encodings of the raw font files. chris 22-Feb-1999 23:54:44-GMT,2770;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from mserv1a.u-net.net (mserv1a.u-net.net [195.102.240.34]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id QAA01304 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 16:54:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from [195.102.196.153] (helo=[195.102.196.153]) by mserv1a.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #58) id 10F5BZ-0005cO-00; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 23:54:50 +0000 X-Sender: rebecca-astrid@mail.u-net.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990221140658.00aa4a20@mail.ai.mit.edu> References: <199902211751.RAA44124@out5.ibm.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 23:23:55 +0000 To: Berthold Horn From: Rebecca and Rowland Subject: Re: fontname postfixes Cc: "tex-fonts" >At 18:51 1999-02-21 +0100, you wrote: > >>>Well, some systems get along without :-) >>>And it removes one more level of "user error" potential. > >>At first sight: yes > >>The map file may, however, specify slanting or narrowing >>of fonts. Is there an alternative place where this information >>can be taken from? > >I personally don't like algorithmic transformations of this nature. >If the designer wanted a condensed version he/she would >have designed one. Not necessarily - fount designers work in a commercial world full of commercial pressures. > Ditto for slanted, smallcaps etc. The >fake ones do not look typographically correct. True, but they're better than nothing. It's useful to have the option available. >In any case, this - unlike other things like reencoding - is PS >specific. So how come you spend so much time trumpeting the ability of Y&Y TeX to do, erm, fount re-encoding, without tying the user to a PostScript method? > That is, many rasterizers do not provide a convenient >mechanism (or any mechanism) to implement the equivalent of >these PS transformations. So they tie you to a "PS only" world. Ahem. Rhubarb. >There is another world out there. > >Keep in mind that what are called "PostScript fonts" on comp.text.tex Some people on comp.text.tex call them PS founts. You don't, and I don't. >are called "ATM fonts" in DTP newsgroups. Likewise, only some people do this. > Neither of which is good >nomenclature. Type 1 would be better. Not really - it's just another partial name with its own confusion. It just happens to be a partial name that meets your political needs. > And these Type 1 fonts >are most often used *without* any PS interpreter. Calling them PostScript Type 1 founts is best. It removes all the ambiguity you get from calling them `PostScript' (only) or `Type 1' (often abbreviated to T1) only. Rowland. 23-Feb-1999 0:52:53-GMT,3373;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id RAA02620 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:52:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from MAUI (maui.ai.mit.edu [128.52.37.105]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.9.1/AI2.7/ai.master.life:2.2) with SMTP id TAA28809; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 19:52:48 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990222193928.00aa3410@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 19:52:54 -0500 To: Rebecca and Rowland From: Berthold Horn Subject: Re: fontname postfixes Cc: "tex-fonts" In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19990221140658.00aa4a20@mail.ai.mit.edu> <199902211751.RAA44124@out5.ibm.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi: At 23:23 1999-02-22 +0000, Rebecca and Rowland wrote: >>I personally don't like algorithmic transformations of this nature. >>If the designer wanted a condensed version he/she would >>have designed one. >Not necessarily - fount designers work in a commercial world full of >commercial pressures. True. But there are plenty of such "modified" versions of basic designs were they seem justified or reasonable available directly from the horse's mouth so to speak. See SC for example: http://www.adobe.com/type/browser/C/C_53.html And algorithmically slanting a sans serif font is a questionable practice - while "obliquing" sans serif fonts is less frowned upon, and there are plenty of those available, starting with Helvetica-Oblique. >>In any case, this - unlike other things like reencoding - is PS specific. >So how come you spend so much time trumpeting the ability of Y&Y TeX to do, >erm, fount re-encoding, without tying the user to a PostScript method? I think you misunderstood (or maybe I misunderstand your response). The previewer in Y&Y TeX reencodes "PS" Type 1 fonts *without* using PS tricks. This seems like a critical capability, particulary in Windows where you can't get at f-ligatures and dotlessi without this (see http://www.YandY.com/art/ly1ansi.gif) and on the Mac where you can't get at ff-ligatures without it (see http://www.YandY.com/art/ly1mac.gif) The previewer also reencodes TrueType font (in Windows NT anyway), so its certainly not tied to PS and in fact not tied to ATM even. Also works for non-PS printers - so again, nothing to do with PS (we know its trivial for PS of course). >> Neither of which is good nomenclature. Type 1 would be better. >Not really - it's just another partial name with its own confusion. It >just happens to be a partial name that meets your political needs. Just like Adobe's calling them "font programs" serves their polticial needs :-)? >>And these Type 1 fonts are most often used *without* any PS interpreter. >Calling them PostScript Type 1 founts is best. It removes all the >ambiguity you get from calling them `PostScript' (only) or `Type 1' (often >abbreviated to T1) only. OK, you win, I will call them "PS Type 1" to avoid all possible confusion. Even though that name suggests to all Unix people that you need PS to use them :-) Regards, Berthold. Berthold K.P. Horn Cambridge, Massachusetts (M) 23-Feb-1999 4:04:08-GMT,2233;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from mserv1a.u-net.net (mserv1a.u-net.net [195.102.240.34]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id VAA06539 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 21:04:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from [195.102.197.76] (helo=[195.102.197.76]) by mserv1a.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #58) id 10F94z-0007dX-00; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 04:04:17 +0000 X-Sender: rebecca-astrid@mail.u-net.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990222193928.00aa3410@mail.ai.mit.edu> References: <4.1.19990221140658.00aa4a20@mail.ai.mit.edu> <199902211751.RAA44124@out5.ibm.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 04:01:56 +0000 To: Berthold Horn From: Rebecca and Rowland Subject: Re: fontname postfixes Cc: "tex-fonts" [snip] >>>In any case, this - unlike other things like reencoding - is PS specific. > >>So how come you spend so much time trumpeting the ability of Y&Y TeX to do, >>erm, fount re-encoding, without tying the user to a PostScript method? > >I think you misunderstood (or maybe I misunderstand your response). I misunderstood - apologies. [snip] >>> Neither of which is good nomenclature. Type 1 would be better. > >>Not really - it's just another partial name with its own confusion. It >>just happens to be a partial name that meets your political needs. > >Just like Adobe's calling them "font programs" serves their polticial >needs :-)? Well... They are, aren't they? >>>And these Type 1 fonts are most often used *without* any PS interpreter. > >>Calling them PostScript Type 1 founts is best. It removes all the >>ambiguity you get from calling them `PostScript' (only) or `Type 1' (often >>abbreviated to T1) only. > >OK, you win, I will call them "PS Type 1" to avoid all possible confusion. >Even though that name suggests to all Unix people that you need PS to use >them :-) Well... Since Unix people don't have access to ATM, who can blame them for this misconception? You can't avoid *ALL* confusion, but you can minimise it. Rowland. 23-Feb-1999 11:14:51-GMT,3266;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from matups.math.u-psud.fr (mathups.math.u-psud.fr [194.199.162.4]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id EAA14843 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 04:14:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from (lcs@localhost) by matups.math.u-psud.fr (8.9.1a/jtpda-5.3.1) id MAA15074 ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:13:50 +0100 (MET) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:13:50 +0100 (MET) From: Laurent.SIEBENMANN@math.u-psud.fr (Laurent SIEBENMANN) Message-Id: <199902231113.MAA15074@matups.math.u-psud.fr> To: CyrTeX-T2@vvv.vsu.ru, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: text encoding compatibility Dear Berthold, Chris, and listeners BKPH> True, but isn't it in fact awkward in LaTeX 2e to use > more than one text font encoding in the same job? CR> What we cannot support (since TeX cannot) is accurate > hyphenation [when] incompatible encodings are used > in the same paragraph. Chris defends LaTeX not TeX as a whole. This sounds much worse for TeX itself than it really is. TeX has just one nasty caprice in this area. Recall that, in the hyphenation, process, TeX applies the lowercase 'function' before looking up the possible hyphenation points in the words of a paragraph. The caprice is that it is the particular value of the lowercase function (\lccode values) in vigour when the paragraph is closed that applies *throughout* the paragraph. That is a wierd limitation when one recalls that any number of different hyphenation tables can be successively called in the same paragraph, through the \language primitive. Clearly, this caprice is no constraint if the natural lowercase functions for all text fonts involved in the paragraph are one and the same. This sameness is the basic TeX encoding compatibility condition. The LaTeX text encoding compatibility conditions are far more complex and constraining (ask Chris for details, not me). LaTeX ultimately required three encodings to cover modern cyrillic languages (T2A, T2B,T2C). Just one (T2X formerly T2) suffices amply under Plain TeX and its close cousins. Larry Siebenmann --------------------------- PS. There is a curious gambit I like that weakens even the basic TeX encoding compatibility condition --- at moderate cost. Gambit: * make the \lccode function the identity * on alphabetics and zero on non-alphabetics (at least by the end of each paragraph!). The basic compatibility condition is then that the alphabetic/non-alphabetic distinction be the same for all the text fonts in the same paragraph. The moderate cost of having this weaker compatibility condition is: (i) \uchyph=0 then does not prevent hyphenation of words beginning with an uppercase letter. But if desired, this can be done "by hand" (say with a kern). (ii) normally, words containing capitals will never be automatically hyphenated near the caps; but specific 'mixed' patterns can be added to regulate this decently (via \patterns and \hyphenation.) (iii) one must obviously use the (rare!) \lowercase primitive with care to momentarily have suitable \lccode values. In Plain TeX, the "impossible" is often within comfortable reach! --------------------------- 23-Feb-1999 11:46:02-GMT,3512;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id EAA15387 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 04:46:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from MAUI (maui.ai.mit.edu [128.52.37.105]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.9.1/AI2.7/ai.master.life:2.2) with SMTP id GAA29078; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 06:44:32 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990223063251.00aa8ad0@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 06:44:37 -0500 To: Rebecca and Rowland From: Berthold Horn Subject: Re: fontname postfixes Cc: "tex-fonts" In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19990222193928.00aa3410@mail.ai.mit.edu> <4.1.19990221140658.00aa4a20@mail.ai.mit.edu> <199902211751.RAA44124@out5.ibm.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi: At 04:01 1999-02-23 +0000, Rebecca and Rowland wrote: >>>>And these Type 1 fonts are most often used *without* any PS interpreter. >>>Calling them PostScript Type 1 founts is best. It removes all the >>>ambiguity you get from calling them `PostScript' (only) or `Type 1' (often >>>abbreviated to T1) only. >>OK, you win, I will call them "PS Type 1" to avoid all possible confusion. >>Even though that name suggests to all Unix people that you need PS to use >>them :-) >Well... Since Unix people don't have access to ATM, who can blame them for >this misconception? Well, I care, because there is a constant danger that a particular world view can drive development in an undesireable direction. Undesirable because it limits what comes out to particular platforms and particular software, or because in fact it heads straight into a dead end. Since finally "PS Type 1" seem to have been accepted as a good thing, its important not to assume that they have something to do with PS and develop solutions that in fact only work for PS output. A small example of what I am talking about is ltxnews, which in one version at least come out using EC fonts. The assumption being that everyone should have them and everyone should use them. Since they do not exist in "PS T1" format this is a bad assumption. Of course it doesn't matter if you are using DVIPS and utilities to make PK fonts. But there is no need to have MetaFont in order to use TeX. So assumptions based on how things work on one platform with one particular set of tools can lead to problems. Since the people doing the development inevitable are influenced by what tools they use, its important to keep on pointing out that there are other setups that can be severly impacted by decisions based on what their tools can provide. And converesly, they do not provide hooks for what is not available with their favourite tools. Suppose for example, the LaTeX developers went in a direction that made it impossible to run things with OzTeX on the Mac. Presumably you would speak up before that went on too long :-) >Well... Since Unix people don't have access to ATM, who can blame them for >this misconception? There are rasterizers available for X Windows that make it equally possible to work with "PS T1" fonts without ever using PostScript (It's not clear why this hasn't caught on more). Regards, Berthold. Berthold K.P. Horn Cambridge, Massachusetts (M) 23-Feb-1999 12:36:15-GMT,983;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from hp01.ihep.uni-heidelberg.de (root@hp01f.ihep.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.240.61]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id FAA16371 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 05:36:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from wunsch (wunsch.ihep.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.39.47]) by hp01.ihep.uni-heidelberg.de with SMTP (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.7.1) id NAA00200 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 13:36:07 +0100 (MET) From: "Martin Wunsch" To: Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 13:30:06 +0100 Message-ID: <000501be5f28$3e86ba20$2f27ce81@wunsch.ihep.uni-heidelberg.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 unsubscribe 23-Feb-1999 13:00:24-GMT,1078;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from cs.umb.edu (cs.umb.edu [158.121.104.2]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id GAA16817; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 06:00:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from hub.cs.umb.edu (hub.cs.umb.edu [158.121.104.161]) by cs.umb.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA26945; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 08:00:21 -0500 (EST) From: Karl Berry Received: (from karl@localhost) by hub.cs.umb.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA01203; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 08:00:20 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 08:00:20 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902231300.IAA01203@hub.cs.umb.edu> To: beebe@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Cc: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: fontname postfixes Here is the grammar I've implemented in my DVI drivers to define the psfonts.map format I fear that i hacked in a few more changes a couple years ago. There can now be <[ and << as well as <. Can't remember if there was anything else, but I did update the manual. (I didn't design the format, and had I done so, it would not have looked like it does), Amen. K 23-Feb-1999 14:51:35-GMT,1111;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from out4.ibm.net (out4.ibm.net [165.87.194.239]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id HAA19196 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 07:51:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from slip139-92-14-42.nue.de.ibm.net (slip139-92-14-42.nue.de.ibm.net [139.92.14.42]) by out4.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA40838 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:50:50 GMT Message-Id: <199902231450.OAA40838@out4.ibm.net> From: "Walter Schmidt" To: "tex-fonts" Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:49:27 +0100 Reply-To: "wschmi@ibm.net" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 1.96a (OS/2 Warp) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: fontname postfixes On Tue, 23 Feb 1999 06:44:37 -0500, Berthold Horn wrote: >But there is no need to have MetaFont in order to use TeX. MetaFont + .pk fonts is still the only thing available with all platforms (i.e operating systems, not necessarily with all TeX implementations.) Walter 24-Feb-1999 1:59:36-GMT,2726;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from mserv1a.u-net.net (mserv1a.u-net.net [195.102.240.34]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id SAA06950 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 18:59:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from [195.102.197.99] (helo=[195.102.197.99]) by mserv1a.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #58) id 10FTc0-0003vI-00; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 01:59:44 +0000 X-Sender: rebecca-astrid@mail.u-net.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990223063251.00aa8ad0@mail.ai.mit.edu> References: <4.1.19990222193928.00aa3410@mail.ai.mit.edu> <4.1.19990221140658.00aa4a20@mail.ai.mit.edu> <199902211751.RAA44124@out5.ibm.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 01:58:27 +0000 To: Berthold Horn From: Rebecca and Rowland Subject: Re: fontname postfixes Cc: "tex-fonts" At 11:44 am +0000 23/2/99, Berthold Horn wrote: >Hi: > >At 04:01 1999-02-23 +0000, Rebecca and Rowland wrote: [snip] >A small example of what I am talking about is ltxnews, which in one >version at least >come out using EC fonts. The assumption being that everyone should have them >and everyone should use them. Since they do not exist in "PS T1" format >this is >a bad assumption. It's a bad assumption to make, but not because the EC founts don't exist in PS Type 1 format (anyway, I thought there was a PS Type 1 version of the EC founts now?) The problem is not that the founts aren't available in a particular form, but that you can't assume that every LaTeX installation has anything but the straightforward OT1 encoded Computer Modern founts. [snip] >Suppose for example, the LaTeX developers went in a direction that made it >impossible to run things with OzTeX on the Mac. Presumably you would >speak up before that went on too long :-) Erm... No, there's not much I can do about it. Rather a lot of LaTeX stuff depends on PostScript, and that's that - I can't use it unless I get a PostScript printer. >>Well... Since Unix people don't have access to ATM, who can blame them for >>this misconception? > >There are rasterizers available for X Windows that make it equally >possible to work with "PS T1" fonts without ever using PostScript >(It's not clear why this hasn't caught on more). [snip] It seems pretty obvious to me: using PostScript has plenty of advantages, and Ghostscript can be set up as an output filter to render PS for any printer you happen to have. Since this is the case, why muck around with anything else? Rowland. 24-Feb-1999 8:43:49-GMT,1362;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from alpha.ntp.springer.de (alpha.ntp.springer.de [192.129.24.9]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id BAA15468 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 01:43:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from ALPHA.NTP.SPRINGER.DE by ALPHA.NTP.SPRINGER.DE (PMDF V5.2-27 #27721) id <01J848JC1ZD000011Y@ALPHA.NTP.SPRINGER.DE> for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 09:43:40 CE Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 09:43:39 +0000 (CE) From: Joerg Knappen Subject: Re: fontname postfixes To: rebecca@astrid.u-net.com Cc: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Message-id: <01J848JC20BA00011Y@ALPHA.NTP.SPRINGER.DE> X-VMS-To: IN%"rebecca@astrid.u-net.com" X-VMS-Cc: IN%"tex-fonts@math.utah.edu" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Rebecca und Rowland schrieben: > It's a bad assumption to make, but not because the EC founts don't exist in > PS Type 1 format (anyway, I thought there was a PS Type 1 version of the EC > founts now?) Indeed they do, including the TC fonts. Micropress Inc. was so friendly to send me a copy, but unfortunately I didn't find the time to evaluate them yet. Therefore I can't comment on their quality. They offer the `standard' range of all sizes regularly adressed in LaTeX2e. --J"org Knappen 24-Feb-1999 11:57:42-GMT,1829;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id EAA19130 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 04:57:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Local (MMTA v2.2) with ESMTP; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 11:18:39 +0000 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA23241; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 11:18:22 GMT From: Chris Rowley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 11:18:22 +0000 (GMT) To: Berthold Horn , tex-fonts Subject: Re: fontname postfixes In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19990222193928.00aa3410@mail.ai.mit.edu> <4.1.19990221140658.00aa4a20@mail.ai.mit.edu> <199902211751.RAA44124@out5.ibm.net> <4.1.19990223063251.00aa8ad0@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <14035.56996.415240.710666@fell.open.ac.uk> > A small example of what I am talking about is ltxnews, which in > one version at least come out using EC fonts. The assumption > being that everyone should have them >nd everyone should use them. In this particular case there is no such assumption since there is also a lwfonts version. > Rather a lot of LaTeX stuff depends on PostScript, There probably is a lot of good useful LaTeX stuff that makes use of Postcript but there is even more that makes no such assumption; and nothing in the kernel makes any such assumption. So please do not give people the impression. chris 24-Feb-1999 20:43:52-GMT,1267;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from relay1.teleport.com (relay1.teleport.com [192.108.254.28]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id NAA02032 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 13:43:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 22742 invoked by uid 5); 24 Feb 1999 20:43:50 -0000 Received: from 209-142-10-73.stk.inreach.net(209.142.10.73), claiming to be "teleport.com" via SMTP by relay1.teleport.com, id smtpdAAA0ZaQNk; Wed Feb 24 12:43:48 1999 Message-ID: <36D46688.B18E5039@teleport.com> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 12:53:21 -0800 From: Arthur Ogawa Reply-To: ogawa@teleport.com Organization: TeX Consultants X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: manual for ftp://ctan.tug.org/tex-archive/fonts/psfonts/? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have received a query asking for assistance on using font metrics from ftp://ctan.tug.org/tex-archive/fonts/psfonts/, and I thought I would look around for some documentation. Does any exist? I could tell the person what I know, but I want to avoid needless duplication of effort. -- Arthur Ogawa 25-Feb-1999 1:13:35-GMT,1886;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from mserv1a.u-net.net (mserv1a.u-net.net [195.102.240.34]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id SAA08853 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 18:13:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from [195.102.197.54] (helo=[195.102.197.54]) by mserv1a.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #61) id 10FpN0-0006TY-00; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 01:13:43 +0000 X-Sender: rebecca-astrid@mail.u-net.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <14035.56996.415240.710666@fell.open.ac.uk> References: <4.1.19990222193928.00aa3410@mail.ai.mit.edu> <4.1.19990221140658.00aa4a20@mail.ai.mit.edu> <199902211751.RAA44124@out5.ibm.net> <4.1.19990223063251.00aa8ad0@mail.ai.mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 01:12:22 +0000 To: Chris Rowley , Berthold Horn , tex-fonts From: Rebecca and Rowland Subject: Re: fontname postfixes [snip] >> Rather a lot of LaTeX stuff depends on PostScript, > >There probably is a lot of good useful LaTeX stuff that makes use of >Postcript but there is even more that makes no such assumption; and >nothing in the kernel makes any such assumption. So please do not >give people the impression. Hmm... I wasn't aware that I *was* giving that impression. I certainly didn't mean to and the idea that anyone could possibly mistake my remarks that way hadn't entered my head. Isn't everyone on this mailing list nominally an approximation to a LaTeX expert, and able to tell the difference between the graphics bundle and the LaTeX kernel? Rowland. 25-Feb-1999 1:13:32-GMT,1842;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from mserv1a.u-net.net (mserv1a.u-net.net [195.102.240.34]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id SAA08847 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 18:13:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from [195.102.197.54] (helo=[195.102.197.54]) by mserv1a.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #61) id 10FpMx-0006TY-00; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 01:13:40 +0000 X-Sender: rebecca-astrid@mail.u-net.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36D46688.B18E5039@teleport.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 01:08:10 +0000 To: ogawa@teleport.com, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu From: Rebecca and Rowland Subject: Re: manual for ftp://ctan.tug.org/tex-archive/fonts/psfonts/? At 8:53 pm +0000 24/2/99, Arthur Ogawa wrote: >I have received a query asking for assistance on using font metrics from >ftp://ctan.tug.org/tex-archive/fonts/psfonts/, and I thought I would look >around for some documentation. > >Does any exist? > >I could tell the person what I know, but I want to avoid needless duplication >of effort. AFAIK, there's no really straightforward `Do this, do that' guide. Useful documentation includes: fntguide.tex simple-nfss.tex and the fontinst documentation fntguide.tex is part of the standard LaTeX distribution, and all the files are available from CTAN. There's also: http://www.phys.washington.edu/~wright/texfonts/ LaTeX fonts docs http://www-theorie.physik.unizh.ch/~ichbin/texfonts/ LaTeX fonts docs (one url is dead I think) (the fontinst documentation gets messy in places, but does explain a lot of things that aren't mentioned elsewhere that I know of. I wrote part of it.) Rowland. 25-Feb-1999 2:09:04-GMT,2998;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from plot79.math.utah.edu (beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu [155.101.20.21]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id TAA10182; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 19:09:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from beebe@localhost) by plot79.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) id TAA16170; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 19:09:03 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 19:09:03 -0700 (MST) From: "Nelson H. F. Beebe" To: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Cc: beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu X-US-Mail: "Center for Scientific Computing, Department of Mathematics, 322 INSCC, University of Utah, 155 S 1400 E RM 233, Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA" X-Telephone: +1 801 581 5254 X-FAX: +1 801 585 1640, +1 801 581 4148 X-URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe Subject: Re: manual for ftp://ctan.tug.org/tex-archive/fonts/psfonts/? Message-ID: Besides the documentation mentioned by Rowland in his response, there is some discussion of PostScript and TeX font metrics in texlive3/texmf/doc/html/dvips/dvips_6.html#SEC65 A search at http://www.adobe.com/cgi-bin/AT/AT-search.cgi for "FONT METRIC FILES SPECIFICATION" turns up a number of documents. The AFM specification can be found at ftp://ftp.adobe.com/pub/adobe/devrelations/devtechnotes/pdffiles/5004.afm_spec.pdf It looks like Adobe has been converting their old PostScript files to PDF, since the parallel ..../psfiles directory is almost empty. Documentation on TeX .tfm files is in the two famous books, ``TeX: The Program'' (Chapter 30), and ``Metafont: The Program'' (Chapter 45). Under OS/2, there are .ofm font metric files, but perhaps their use is fast waning. At http://partners.adobe.com/supportservice/devrelations/typeforum/tchntlist.html I found this: 5178 Building PFM Files for PostScript-Language CJK Fonts (PDF: 148 KB / 44 pages) Specifies the PostScript-language extensions for CID-keyed fonts that were added in PostScript version 2015. Describes additional CIDFontTypes to those specified in the CID specfication. However, the link to it leads to an non-existent file. You can find it at ftp://ftp.adobe.com/pub/adobe/devrelations/devtechnotes/pdffiles/5178.PFM.pdf On viewing it briefy, I find that it has a very clear description of the .pfm file format. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 - - Center for Scientific Computing FAX: +1 801 585 1640, +1 801 581 4148 - - University of Utah Internet e-mail: beebe@math.utah.edu - - Department of Mathematics, 322 INSCC beebe@acm.org - - 155 S 1400 E RM 233 beebe@ieee.org - - Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25-Feb-1999 2:24:59-GMT,2602;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from relay1.teleport.com (relay1.teleport.com [192.108.254.28]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id TAA10620 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 19:24:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 27778 invoked by uid 5); 25 Feb 1999 02:24:56 -0000 Received: from 209-142-10-73.stk.inreach.net(209.142.10.73), claiming to be "teleport.com" via SMTP by relay1.teleport.com, id smtpdAAA1r1WS_; Wed Feb 24 18:24:50 1999 Message-ID: <36D4B691.312EC9E9@teleport.com> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 18:35:39 -0800 From: Arthur Ogawa Reply-To: ogawa@teleport.com Organization: TeX Consultants X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: manual for ftp://ctan.tug.org/tex-archive/fonts/psfonts/? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rebecca and Rowland wrote: > > At 8:53 pm +0000 24/2/99, Arthur Ogawa wrote: > >I have received a query asking for assistance on using font metrics from > >ftp://ctan.tug.org/tex-archive/fonts/psfonts/, and I thought I would look > >around for some documentation. > fntguide.tex ftp://ctan.tug.org/tex-archive/macros/latex/base/fntguide.tex > simple-nfss.tex 1994/06/25 | 10608 | info/simple-nfss.tex ^^^^ > and the fontinst documentation you must be talking about ftp://ctan.tug.org/tex-archive/fonts/utilities/fontinst/doc/fontinst.tex I also found ftp://ctan.tug.org/tex-archive/fonts/psfonts/tools/ctan-to-tds a shell script that Sebastian (?) wrote. This script gives the best (albeit implicit) directions I know of so far for how to install the psfonts information into a user's filesystem. > http://www.phys.washington.edu/~wright/texfonts/ LaTeX fonts docs Yes, this is no longer in existence. The author is at your second link: > http://www-theorie.physik.unizh.ch/~ichbin/texfonts/ LaTeX fonts docs This is excellent information. Although it sheds no light on the /fonts/psfonts/ stuff specifically, it's worthwhile for a person to familiarize onesself with it. -- Arthur Ogawa/TeX Consultants voice: +1 209 561-4585 Fax: +1 209 561-4584 mailto:ogawa@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~ogawa ftp://ftp.teleport.com/users/ogawa PGP key: finger -l ogawa@teleport.com ________________________________ For the best in (La)TeX-nical typesetting and Web page production join the TeX Users Group (TUG) --- browse at http://www.tug.org 25-Feb-1999 9:38:45-GMT,1605;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id CAA19232 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 02:38:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id JAA17451; hop 0; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 09:29:10 GMT Received: from srahtz (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Thu, 25 Feb 1999 09:38:25 +0000 X-Mailer: emacs 20.3.2 (via feedmail 9-beta-3 Q); VM 6.61 under Emacs 20.3.2 From: Sebastian Rahtz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14037.5219.81452.7110@srahtz> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 09:14:11 +0000 (GMT) To: ogawa@teleport.com Cc: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: manual for ftp://ctan.tug.org/tex-archive/fonts/psfonts/? In-Reply-To: <36D46688.B18E5039@teleport.com> References: <36D46688.B18E5039@teleport.com> Arthur Ogawa writes: > I have received a query asking for assistance on using font metrics from > ftp://ctan.tug.org/tex-archive/fonts/psfonts/, and I thought I would look > around for some documentation. The LaTeX Graphics Companion is effectively the manual for my part of that tree. That is to say, it contains all *I* know about it. Sebastian 25-Feb-1999 13:13:21-GMT,2128;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from mail.math.umu.se (root@abel.math.umu.se [130.239.20.139]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id GAA23192 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 06:13:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from [130.239.20.144] (mac144.math.umu.se [130.239.20.144]) by mail.math.umu.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA18443; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 14:13:04 +0100 (MET) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 14:13:04 +0100 (MET) X-Sender: lars@abel.math.umu.se Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199902231113.MAA15074@matups.math.u-psud.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" To: Laurent.SIEBENMANN@math.u-psud.fr (Laurent SIEBENMANN) From: Lars =?iso-8859-1?Q?Hellstr=F6m?= Subject: Re: text encoding compatibility Cc: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by csc-sun.math.utah.edu id GAA23193 Laurent SIEBENMANN wrote: >Chris defends LaTeX not TeX as a whole. This sounds much >worse for TeX itself than it really is. TeX has just one >nasty caprice in this area. Recall that, in the hyphenation, >process, TeX applies the lowercase 'function' before looking >up the possible hyphenation points in the words of a >paragraph. The caprice is that it is the particular value of >the lowercase function (\lccode values) in vigour when the >paragraph is closed that applies *throughout* the paragraph. >That is a wierd limitation when one recalls that any number >of different hyphenation tables can be successively called in >the same paragraph, through the \language primitive. >Clearly, this caprice is no constraint if the natural >lowercase functions for all text fonts involved in the >paragraph are one and the same. This sameness is the basic >TeX encoding compatibility condition. I just think it should be mensioned that this is one of the flaws of TeX that e-TeX has fixed (by maintaining a separate lowercase table for hyphenation purposes for each language). Lars Hellström 25-Feb-1999 14:00:47-GMT,1847;000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from ns1.library.knaw.nl (ip003.library.knaw.nl [192.87.107.3]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id GAA24189 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 06:59:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from asimov (jp200.library.knaw.nl [194.171.144.200]) by ns1.library.knaw.nl (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA02070 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 15:47:41 +0100 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990225145805.00b37850@ip005.niwi.knaw.nl> X-Sender: ericm@ip005.niwi.knaw.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 14:58:05 +0100 To: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu From: Eric Maryniak Subject: Q: Unicode available/planned for (La)TeX(3)? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello (t)experts, Please excuse me for possibly asking something wrong, incoherent or in a faq (although http://www.cogs.susx.ac.uk/cgi-bin/texfaq2html gave no hits when queried on "Unicode"). Q: is there a (La)TeX variant, style, documentclass option, ...?, where you can use Unicode? Eg., I would imagine something like: \documentclass[10pt,twoside,a4paper,unicode]{article} ... On 2002-07-01 (July 1, 2002) all europeans from the 11 countries will no longer have coins from their own currency but instead use the euro: \u{20AC}. \bye, Eric. -- Eric Maryniak Home page: http://pobox.com/~e.maryniak/ Netherlands Institute for Scientific Information Services (NIWI) Tel/Fax: +31 20 4628650/6685079. Internet: http://www.niwi.knaw.nl/ >From the "Become-a-professional-writer-HOWTO" of the Linuxdoc-SGML series:
The Very Short Story <author>A. Author <date>1 Jan 1970 <p> Once upon a time, they lived happily ever after. </article> 25-Feb-1999 14:37:33-GMT,9039;000000000000 Return-Path: <beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu> Received: from plot79.math.utah.edu (beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu [155.101.20.21]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id HAA25036; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 07:37:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from beebe@localhost) by plot79.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) id HAA21410; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 07:37:32 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 07:37:32 -0700 (MST) From: "Nelson H. F. Beebe" <beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu> To: Eric Maryniak <e.maryniak@pobox.com>, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Cc: beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu X-US-Mail: "Center for Scientific Computing, Department of Mathematics, 322 INSCC, University of Utah, 155 S 1400 E RM 233, Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA" X-Telephone: +1 801 581 5254 X-FAX: +1 801 585 1640, +1 801 581 4148 X-URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe Subject: Re: Unicode available/planned for (La)TeX(3)? Message-ID: <CMM.0.91.0.919953451.beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu> Eric Maryniak <e.maryniak@pobox.com> asks: >> Q: is there a (La)TeX variant, style, documentclass option, ...?, where you >> can use Unicode? This isn't the appropriate list for Unicode and LaTeX questions. However, yes, work has been going on for several years in the Omega project to produce support for Unicode in a TeX-like system, and the TeXLive-3 CD-ROM available from the TeX Users Group (http://www.tug.org) has Omega on it. Here are all of the references to the Omega and/or TeX+Unicode work that I can find in 230,000+ bibliographic entries in the combined BibNet Project and TUG bibliography archives: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ URL = ftp://ftp.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/lncs1998a.bib Line=6995 @String{j-LECT-NOTES-COMP-SCI = "Lecture Notes in Computer Science"} @Article{Haralambous:1998:DUM, author = "Y. Haralambous and J. Plaice", title = "The Design and Use of a Multiple-Alphabet Font with Omega", journal = j-LECT-NOTES-COMP-SCI, volume = "1375", pages = "126--??", year = "1998", CODEN = "LNCSD9", ISSN = "0302-9743", bibdate = "Sat Oct 10 14:40:24 MDT 1998", acknowledgement = ack-nhfb, } ------------------------------------------------------------------------ URL = ftp://ftp.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/unicode.bib Line=4517 @InProceedings{Haralambous:1997:UTO, author = "Yannis Haralambous and John Plaice", title = "From {Unicode} to Typography, via {Omega}: {Greek}, Ancient and Modern", crossref = "UC:1997:ESI", pages = "??--??", year = "1997", bibdate = "Thu Aug 20 21:00:11 1998", URL = "http://www.unicode.org/unicode/iuc10/program.html", acknowledgement = ack-nhfb, } @String{pub-UNICODE = "The Unicode Consortium"} @String{pub-UNICODE-SAN-JOSE:adr = "P.O. Box 700519, San Jose, CA 95170-0519, US A, Phone: +1-408-777-5870, Fax: +1-408-777-5082, E-mail: \path=unicode-inc@unico de.org="} @Proceedings{UC:1997:ESI, editor = "{Unicode Consortium}", booktitle = "{Europe}, Software + the {Internet}: Going Global with {Unicode}: Tenth International {Unicode} Conference, {March 10--12, 1997, Mainz, Germany}", title = "{Europe}, Software + the {Internet}: Going Global with {Unicode}: Tenth International {Unicode} Conference, {March 10--12, 1997, Mainz, Germany}", publisher = pub-UNICODE, address = pub-UNICODE-SAN-JOSE:adr, pages = "????", year = "1997", ISBN = "????", LCCN = "????", bibdate = "Thu Apr 23 14:36:13 1998", URL = "http://www.unicode.org/unicode/iuc10/; http://www.unicode.org/unicode/uni2book/u2ord.html", acknowledgement = ack-nhfb, keywords = "Character sets (Data processing) -- Congresses; Coding theory -- Congresses", } ------------------------------------------------------------------------ URL = ftp://ftp.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/tugboat.bib Line=27022 @String{j-TUGboat = "TUGboat"} @Article{Plaice:TB15-3-320, author = "John Plaice", title = "{Progress in the {Omega} project}", journal = j-TUGboat, volume = "15", number = "3", pages = "320--324", month = sep, year = "1994", ISSN = "0896-3207", bibdate = "Sat Feb 20 18:54:33 MST 1999", bibsource = "ftp://ftp.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/tugboat.bib; http://www.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/index-table-t.html#tugboat ", acknowledgement = ack-bnb # " and " # ack-nhfb, } ------------------------------------------------------------------------ URL = ftp://ftp.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/tugboat.bib Line=28587 @String{j-TUGboat = "TUGboat"} @Article{Fairbairns:TB16-3-325, author = "Robin Fairbairns", title = "{Omega --- {Why} bother with {Unicode}?}", journal = j-TUGboat, volume = "16", number = "3", pages = "325--328", month = sep, year = "1995", ISSN = "0896-3207", bibdate = "Sat Feb 20 18:54:33 MST 1999", bibsource = "ftp://ftp.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/tugboat.bib; http://www.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/index-table-t.html#tugboat ", acknowledgement = ack-bnb # " and " # ack-nhfb, } ------------------------------------------------------------------------ URL = ftp://ftp.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/unicode.bib Line=1446 @String{j-TUGBOAT = "TUGboat"} @Article{Plaice:1993:LDL, author = "John Plaice", title = "Language-dependent ligatures", journal = j-TUGBOAT, volume = "14", number = "3", pages = "271--274", month = Oct, year = "1993", ISSN = "0896-3207", bibdate = "Wed Aug 24 19:53:33 1994", note = "Describes extensions to {\TeX} to support 16-bit character set input, with a particular view to Unicode support.", acknowledgement = ack-nhfb, } ------------------------------------------------------------------------ URL = ftp://ftp.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/tugboat.bib Line=29717 @String{j-TUGboat = "TUGboat"} @Article{Kinch:TB17-2-147, author = "Richard J. Kinch", title = "{{{Extending {\TeX} for Unicode}}}", journal = j-TUGboat, volume = "17", number = "2", pages = "147--160", month = jun, year = "1996", ISSN = "0896-3207", bibdate = "Sat Feb 20 18:54:33 MST 1999", bibsource = "ftp://ftp.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/tugboat.bib; http://www.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/index-table-t.html#tugboat ", acknowledgement = ack-bnb # " and " # ack-nhfb, } ------------------------------------------------------------------------ URL = ftp://ftp.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/tugboat.bib Line=30894 @String{j-TUGboat = "TUGboat"} @Article{Haralambous:TB18-1-17, author = "Yannis Haralambous", title = "{{The {Traditional Arabic} {Typecase}, {Unicode}, {\TeX} and {\MF}}}", journal = j-TUGboat, volume = "18", number = "1", pages = "17--29", month = mar, year = "1997", ISSN = "0896-3207", bibdate = "Sat Feb 20 18:54:33 MST 1999", bibsource = "ftp://ftp.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/tugboat.bib; http://www.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/index-table-t.html#tugboat ", acknowledgement = ack-bnb # " and " # ack-nhfb, } ------------------------------------------------------------------------ URL = ftp://ftp.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/unicode.bib Line=4829 @String{j-TUGboat = "TUGboat"} @Article{Lemberg:1997:CPL, author = "Werner Lemberg", title = "The {CJK} package for {\LaTeX 2e} --- Multilingual support beyond {\tt babel}", journal = j-TUGboat, volume = "18", number = "3", pages = "214--224", month = sep, year = "1997", ISSN = "0896-3207", bibdate = "Thu Apr 23 10:29:23 1998", acknowledgement = ack-rc, } ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 - - Center for Scientific Computing FAX: +1 801 585 1640, +1 801 581 4148 - - University of Utah Internet e-mail: beebe@math.utah.edu - - Department of Mathematics, 322 INSCC beebe@acm.org - - 155 S 1400 E RM 233 beebe@ieee.org - - Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25-Feb-1999 18:05:35-GMT,1909;000000000000 Return-Path: <tim@maths.tcd.ie> Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (mmdf@salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id LAA00874 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 11:05:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from boole.maths.tcd.ie by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id <aa27556@salmon.maths.tcd.ie>; 25 Feb 99 18:05:00 +0000 (GMT) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 18:04:59 +0000 From: Timothy Murphy <tim@maths.tcd.ie> To: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: Q: Unicode available/planned for (La)TeX(3)? Message-ID: <19990225180459.A22334@boole.maths.tcd.ie> References: <3.0.5.32.19990225145805.00b37850@ip005.niwi.knaw.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990225145805.00b37850@ip005.niwi.knaw.nl>; from Eric Maryniak on Thu, Feb 25, 1999 at 02:58:05PM +0100 Sender: tim@maths.tcd.ie On Thu, Feb 25, 1999 at 02:58:05PM +0100, Eric Maryniak wrote: > > Q: is there a (La)TeX variant, style, documentclass option, ...?, where you > can use Unicode? Eg., I would imagine something like: > > \documentclass[10pt,twoside,a4paper,unicode]{article} More knowledgeable people will reply wisely to this, but my immediate reaction would be that you need to distinguish between input encoding and font encoding. In this case you are presumably talking of font encoding, so your hopeful heading would more likely read \documentclass[10pt,twoside,a4paper]{article} \usepackage[unicode]{fontenc} The trouble with this is that TeX fonts can only hold 256 characters, while unicode is almost infinite. Having said that, I believe there are extensions to TeX -- perhaps omega? -- which do allow use of unicode. Unfortunately I know nothing of these. -- Timothy Murphy e-mail: tim@maths.tcd.ie tel: +353-1-2842366 s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland 25-Feb-1999 18:16:08-GMT,1677;000000000000 Return-Path: <ogawa@teleport.com> Received: from relay1.teleport.com (relay1.teleport.com [192.108.254.28]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id LAA01217 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 11:16:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 24849 invoked by uid 5); 25 Feb 1999 18:15:56 -0000 Received: from 209-142-4-138.stk.inreach.net(209.142.4.138), claiming to be "teleport.com" via SMTP by relay1.teleport.com, id smtpdAAAW4DCn_; Thu Feb 25 10:15:49 1999 Message-ID: <36D5858D.46C34CCB@teleport.com> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 09:17:05 -0800 From: Arthur Ogawa <ogawa@teleport.com> Reply-To: ogawa@teleport.com Organization: TeX Consultants X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sebastian Rahtz <s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk> CC: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: manual for ftp://ctan.tug.org/tex-archive/fonts/psfonts/? References: <CMM.0.91.0.919881281.beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu> <36D46688.B18E5039@teleport.com> <14037.5219.81452.7110@srahtz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > The LaTeX Graphics Companion is effectively the manual for my part of > that tree. That is to say, it contains all *I* know about it. Thanks, Sebastian! That's the definitive word. -- Arthur Ogawa/TeX Consultants voice: +1 209 561-4585 Fax: +1 209 561-4584 mailto:ogawa@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~ogawa ftp://ftp.teleport.com/users/ogawa PGP key: finger -l ogawa@teleport.com ________________________________ For the best in (La)TeX-nical typesetting and Web page production join the TeX Users Group (TUG) --- browse at http://www.tug.org 25-Feb-1999 18:29:38-GMT,1846;000000000000 Return-Path: <C.A.Rowley@open.ac.uk> Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id LAA01689; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 11:29:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Local (MMTA v2.2) with ESMTP; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 16:51:58 +0000 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA25113; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 16:51:43 GMT From: Chris Rowley <C.A.Rowley@open.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 16:51:42 +0000 (GMT) To: "Nelson H. F. Beebe" <beebe@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> Cc: Eric Maryniak <e.maryniak@pobox.com>, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: Unicode available/planned for (La)TeX(3)? In-Reply-To: <CMM.0.91.0.919953451.beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu> References: <CMM.0.91.0.919953451.beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu> X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <14037.27032.280907.828086@fell.open.ac.uk> Nelson H. F. Beebe wrote -- > Eric Maryniak <e.maryniak@pobox.com> asks: > > >> Q: is there a (La)TeX variant, style, documentclass option, ...?, where you > >> can use Unicode? > > This isn't the appropriate list for Unicode and LaTeX questions. That depends on whether you think that Unicode should be connected to fonts. In fact, this particular point is not related to fonts so this is true. But neither is it related only to omega since this is not asking for anything to use 16-bit encoded (anyhow) characters, it is only asking for the support of some TeX syntax, such as \u{20AC}, which allows one to input a character known by its unicode number. It may be sensible and feasible for LaTeX to provide some support for this at some stage. Chris Rowley --- On behalf of the LaTeX3 Project Team 25-Feb-1999 18:29:46-GMT,1271;000000000000 Return-Path: <C.A.Rowley@open.ac.uk> Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id LAA01697 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 11:29:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Local (MMTA v2.2) with ESMTP; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 18:13:20 +0000 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA25312; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 18:13:05 GMT From: Chris Rowley <C.A.Rowley@open.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 18:13:04 +0000 (GMT) To: Timothy Murphy <tim@maths.tcd.ie> Cc: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: Q: Unicode available/planned for (La)TeX(3)? In-Reply-To: <19990225180459.A22334@boole.maths.tcd.ie> References: <3.0.5.32.19990225145805.00b37850@ip005.niwi.knaw.nl> <19990225180459.A22334@boole.maths.tcd.ie> X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <14037.37451.448461.511060@fell.open.ac.uk> > > The trouble with this is that TeX fonts can only hold 256 characters, > while unicode is almost infinite. Worse than that is that unicode is not a font encoding (however big an actual font may be one day). chris 25-Feb-1999 18:46:53-GMT,3070;000000000000 Return-Path: <yharalambous@nordmail.nordnet.fr> Received: from smtp.nordnet.fr (root@smtp.nordnet.fr [194.206.126.239]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id LAA02290 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 11:46:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from 195.146.228.120 (gate8-120.nordnet.fr [195.146.228.120]) by smtp.nordnet.fr (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id TAA26917; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 19:46:40 +0100 Message-Id: <199902251846.TAA26917@smtp.nordnet.fr> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 19:49:40 +0100 From: Yannis Haralambous <yannis@fluxus-virus.com> Subject: Re: Q: Unicode available/planned for (La)TeX(3)? To: Eric Maryniak <e.maryniak@pobox.com> cc: "tex-fonts@math.utah.edu" <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; Charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mailsmith (Bluto) On 25/02/99 at 14:58, e.maryniak@pobox.com (Eric Maryniak) wrote: > Hello (t)experts, > > Please excuse me for possibly asking something wrong, incoherent or in a > faq (although http://www.cogs.susx.ac.uk/cgi-bin/texfaq2html gave no hits > when queried on "Unicode"). Probably texfaq2html is revisionnistic ("Omega does not exist and has never existed"). This is unfortunately quite common. > > Q: is there a (La)TeX variant, style, documentclass option, ...?, where you > can use Unicode? Eg., I would imagine something like: > > \documentclass[10pt,twoside,a4paper,unicode]{article} > ... > On 2002-07-01 (July 1, 2002) all europeans from the 11 countries will > no longer have coins from their own currency but instead use the euro: > \u{20AC}. \documentclass[10pt,twoside,a4paper]{article} \usepackage{omega} ... On 2002-07-01 (July 1, 2002) all Europeans from the 11 countries will no longer have coins from their own currency but instead use the euro: ^^^^20ac. %%% This will be possible in next Omega release (I have just drawn the Euro symbols a few weeks ago, in Tsukuba). You already have quite a few other symbols though. And you can input your text directly in 16-bit Unicode (or UTF-8), so that you don't need the ^^^^abcd convention. Cheers Yannis +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Yannis Haralambous, Ph.D. yannis@fluxus-virus.com | | http://www.fluxus-virus.com/yannis | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | 187, rue Nationale fax : +33 (0)3.20.40.28.64 | | 59800 Lille, France tél. : +33 (0)6.07.98.16.26 | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Visit the Omega home page!! http://www.ens.fr/omega | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ ...pour distinguer l'extérieur d'un aquarium, mieux vaut n'être pas poisson ...the ball I threw while playing in the park has never reached the ground 25-Feb-1999 23:24:09-GMT,1552;000000000000 Return-Path: <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id QAA10446 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 16:24:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from MAUI (maui.ai.mit.edu [128.52.37.105]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.9.1/AI2.7/ai.master.life:2.2) with SMTP id SAA16511; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 18:23:47 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990225182334.03050c60@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 18:23:43 -0500 To: Chris Rowley <C.A.Rowley@open.ac.uk>, Timothy Murphy <tim@maths.tcd.ie> From: Berthold Horn <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Subject: Re: Q: Unicode available/planned for (La)TeX(3)? Cc: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu In-Reply-To: <14037.37451.448461.511060@fell.open.ac.uk> References: <19990225180459.A22334@boole.maths.tcd.ie> <3.0.5.32.19990225145805.00b37850@ip005.niwi.knaw.nl> <19990225180459.A22334@boole.maths.tcd.ie> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 18:13 1999-02-25 +0000, you wrote: >> The trouble with this is that TeX fonts can only hold 256 characters, >> while unicode is almost infinite. >Worse than that is that unicode is not a font encoding (however big an >actual font may be one day). Although that is how it is being used in Windows and in the next Mac OS. Which may not please the purists, but is a real boon for people who want to get on with it... Regards, Berthold. Berthold K.P. Horn Cambridge, Massachusetts (M) 26-Feb-1999 19:23:04-GMT,2247;000000000000 Return-Path: <C.A.Rowley@open.ac.uk> Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id MAA07712 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 12:22:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Local (MMTA v2.2) with ESMTP; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 19:22:51 +0000 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA26509; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 19:22:35 GMT From: Chris Rowley <C.A.Rowley@open.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 19:22:34 +0000 (GMT) To: Berthold Horn <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Cc: Timothy Murphy <tim@maths.tcd.ie>, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: Q: Unicode available/planned for (La)TeX(3)? In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990225182334.03050c60@mail.ai.mit.edu> References: <19990225180459.A22334@boole.maths.tcd.ie> <3.0.5.32.19990225145805.00b37850@ip005.niwi.knaw.nl> <14037.37451.448461.511060@fell.open.ac.uk> <4.1.19990225182334.03050c60@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <14038.61992.271252.939575@fell.open.ac.uk> Berthold > At 18:13 1999-02-25 +0000, you wrote: > > >> The trouble with this is that TeX fonts can only hold 256 characters, > >> while unicode is almost infinite. > > >Worse than that is that unicode is not a font encoding (however big an > >actual font may be one day). > > Although that is how it is being used in Windows and in the next Mac OS. > > Which may not please the purists, but is a real boon for people who want > to get on with it... Do I detect some recidivism here!? I thought you had reassured me that all these wonderful OSs support platform-independent portable font resources nowadays? Thus a "unicode-encoded font" may be "in Windows" now but I hope that we do not have to use them, whatever they may be and however easy this may be. To whom getting on with what are a fixed encoding and OS-embedded font resources a boon? In fact, I have yet to see a font encoding that is anything other than "using 16-bit numbers" but maybe "unicode" ones exist somewhere. And I have not even started on phrases like "almost infinite" yet:-). chris 26-Feb-1999 20:20:10-GMT,3429;000000000000 Return-Path: <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id NAA09340 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 13:20:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from MAUI (p165.tc19a.metro.MA.tiac.com [207.60.68.166]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.9.1/AI2.7/ai.master.life:2.2) with SMTP id PAA26325; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:19:58 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990226150813.00ad6bc0@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:19:50 -0500 To: Chris Rowley <C.A.Rowley@open.ac.uk> From: Berthold Horn <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Subject: Re: Q: Unicode available/planned for (La)TeX(3)? Cc: Timothy Murphy <tim@maths.tcd.ie>, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu In-Reply-To: <14038.61992.271252.939575@fell.open.ac.uk> References: <4.1.19990225182334.03050c60@mail.ai.mit.edu> <19990225180459.A22334@boole.maths.tcd.ie> <3.0.5.32.19990225145805.00b37850@ip005.niwi.knaw.nl> <14037.37451.448461.511060@fell.open.ac.uk> <4.1.19990225182334.03050c60@mail.ai.mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit <html> At 19:22 1999-02-26 +0000, Chris Rowley wrote:<br> <br> >Do I detect some recidivism here!?<br> <br> >I thought you had reassured me that all these wonderful OSs support<br> >platform-independent portable font resources nowadays?<br> <br> >Thus a "unicode-encoded font" may be "in Windows" now but I hope that<br> >we do not have to use them, whatever they may be and however easy this<br> >may be.<br> <br> >To whom getting on with what are a fixed encoding and OS-embedded font<br> >resources a boon?<br> <br> >In fact, I have yet to see a font encoding that is anything other than "using<br> >16-bit numbers" but maybe "unicode" ones exist somewhere.<br> <br> >And I have not even started on phrases like "almost infinite" yet:-).<br> <br> Not sure I follow :-)  The idea is that presently we have a plethora of<br> code pages (*), encoding vectors etc.  primarily because with only <br> 256 character codes we can't deal with anything but some small <br> subset of characters at a time.<br> <br> According to Unicode Consortium, characters are not glyphs and <br> glyphs are not characters, and Unicode 16 bit numbers are about <br> characters. So they should be used only on the "input" side, and <br> not for naming glyphs.<br> <br> But aside from Unicode being used for character coding, it is also <br> de facto being used for glyph encoding.  Which is counter to the<br> religion of the Unicode consortium, but a great thing when nothing<br> better is available.  No longer any need to mess with code pages<br> and encoding vectors.  So 0x015E is Scedilla in all of the fonts<br> that we make that have Scedilla, and 0x0162 is Tcommaaccent.<br> No need to explain anything, no need to jump through hoops.<br> <br> Windows NT supports this nicely, as may the next Mac OS.<br> Even ATM in Windows NT does the right thing.<br> <br> Regards, Berthold.<br> <br> (*) "So would you say I have a plethora of pi<font face="Times New Roman, Times">ñ</font>atas?"<br> <br> <div>Berthold K.P. Horn<x-tab>      </x-tab>Cambridge, Massachusetts (M)</div> <br> </html> 28-Feb-1999 15:29:21-GMT,2725;000000000000 Return-Path: <Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr> Received: from ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.232.33]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id IAA27269 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 08:29:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.241.5]) by ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA29496; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 16:29:17 +0100 (MET) Received: (from bouche@localhost) by mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.7.6/8.6.9) id QAA14126; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 16:35:08 +0100 (MET) Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 16:35:08 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199902281535.QAA14126@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> From: Thierry Bouche <Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr> To: Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project <LATEX-L@URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE>, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: Axis in nfss X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Hi, Quite a long time ago, it was said that "the good way to implement MakeUppercase & friends would be to add a "case" axis to NFSS". I'd like to know if some activity has been undertaken to address this. It seems obvious to me that current nfss misses 2 axis, namely _width_ ("series" should be broken into weight and width, this bx as \bfdefault reflects TeX + CM history but has the notoriously bad consequence of seeing bold extended used inside text, not restricted to titling material) and _case_. The current situation as regards "series" is not too bad because the translation from markup to layout should be done in a class file, it is however bad that such classes must be dependant on the font system used. the "case" axis is really needed, and will be ever, since unicode ignores small caps, and multiple digits shapes. (It's a unicode flaw, imho, to enforce the capital/small letter distinction [two glyphs for the same charachter, no?] and reject small caps, lining/hanging/tabular figures). I think that adding the cases axis would be rather harmless, since people could simply ignore it (not the same for series vs weight&width) _and_ very usefull, since many have been temptated to turn some variant classes into families to have access to small caps in italic or slanted e.g.). Moreover, creating the few missing fonts with EC would be trivial, and maybe cleaner (accents for caps should be in an all-cap font rather than in TS1?), fontinst could similarly create a bunch more of VFs for supporting PS fonts as well. I'm thinking at least at: all caps (cap digits) c&sc (sc digits--almost inexistant in practice: cf Bell expert) all sc c&lc (lc or old style digits) all lc Thierry Bouche, Grenoble. 28-Feb-1999 22:27:58-GMT,2561;000000000000 Return-Path: <yharalambous@nordmail.nordnet.fr> Received: from smtp.nordnet.fr (root@smtp.nordnet.fr [194.206.126.239]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id PAA05276 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 15:27:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from 195.146.225.131 (gate7-131.nordnet.fr [195.146.225.131]) by smtp.nordnet.fr (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id XAA12141; Sun, 28 Feb 1999 23:27:41 +0100 Message-Id: <199902282227.XAA12141@smtp.nordnet.fr> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 23:30:42 +0100 From: Yannis Haralambous <yannis@fluxus-virus.com> Subject: Re: Axis in nfss To: Thierry Bouche <Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr> cc: Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project <LATEX-L@URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE>, "tex-fonts@math.utah.edu" <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; Charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mailsmith (Bluto) On 28/02/99 at 16:35, Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr (Thierry Bouche) wrote: > Hi, > > Quite a long time ago, it was said that "the good way to implement > MakeUppercase & friends would be to add a "case" axis to NFSS". I don't think this is the good way, as a matter of fact it cannot work: uppercase/lowercase/smallcaps is language dependent, and as far as I know there is no language axis yet in NFSS. > the "case" axis is really needed, and will be ever, since unicode > ignores small caps, and multiple digits shapes. (It's a unicode flaw, > imho, to enforce the capital/small letter distinction [two glyphs for > the same charachter, no?] and reject small caps, Unicode ignores these things, but not Unicode++ +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Yannis Haralambous, Ph.D. yannis@fluxus-virus.com | | http://www.fluxus-virus.com/yannis | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | 187, rue Nationale fax : +33 (0)3.20.40.28.64 | | 59800 Lille, France tél. : +33 (0)6.07.98.16.26 | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Visit the Omega home page!! http://www.ens.fr/omega | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ ...pour distinguer l'extérieur d'un aquarium, mieux vaut n'être pas poisson ...the ball I threw while playing in the park has never reached the ground 1-Mar-1999 16:52:15-GMT,2006;000000000000 Return-Path: <Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr> Received: from ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.232.33]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id JAA28082 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:52:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.241.5]) by ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA06090; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 17:52:12 +0100 (MET) Received: (from bouche@localhost) by mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.7.6/8.6.9) id RAA11613; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 17:58:14 +0100 (MET) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 17:58:14 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199903011658.RAA11613@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> From: Thierry Bouche <Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr> To: "wschmi@ibm.net" <wschmi@ibm.net> Cc: "tex-fonts" <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> Subject: Re: fontname postfixes In-Reply-To: <199902212020.UAA11168@out5.ibm.net> References: <199902212020.UAA11168@out5.ibm.net> X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Concernant « Re: fontname postfixes », Walter Schmidt écrit : « » On Sun, 21 Feb 1999 14:10:08 -0500, Berthold Horn wrote: » » >I personally don't like algorithmic transformations of this nature. » >If the designer wanted a condensed version he/she would » >have designed one. Ditto for slanted, smallcaps etc. The » >fake ones do not look typographically correct. » » I agree, as far as text fonts are concerned. » » OTOH you cannot provide "faked" math fonts without such tricks; » see e.g. the fonts used by mathptmx.sty or mathpple.sty. » They rely heavily on "artificial" sloping. how true. You cannot fake without faking. I don't see why, if it is possible, people should stick to ATM compatibility or whatever, and not even enjoy font destruction as any casual user of word may do? the software provider is going to tell us what is the authorized use of our fonts? Thierry Bouche, Grenoble. 1-Mar-1999 17:04:44-GMT,1799;000000000000 Return-Path: <Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr> Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id KAA28471 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 10:04:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.232.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA11360 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 12:04:34 -0500 Received: from mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.241.5]) by ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA06922 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 18:04:29 +0100 (MET) Received: (from bouche@localhost) by mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.7.6/8.6.9) id SAA12070; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 18:10:31 +0100 (MET) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 18:10:31 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199903011710.SAA12070@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> From: Thierry Bouche <Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr> To: tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: Re: fontname postfixes In-Reply-To: <199902221136.MAA24428@lugulbanda.uio.no> References: <199902221121.MAA13666@attila.uni-duesseldorf.de> <199902221136.MAA24428@lugulbanda.uio.no> X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit » > I recommend looking into dvips and or pdftex sources for code related » > to parsing map files. » » *nod* I got the clue eventualy :-) I'm using the psfonts.map reading » code from dvips now. ... It still dosn't mean we can use the dvips map » files completely unmodified though. I think. doesn't the current ps2pk gather all the information it needs from psfonts.map? isn't the X11 T1 rasterizer the base of ps2pk? BTW, are there plans to include support for MM fonts some day ? Thierry Bouche, Grenoble. 1-Mar-1999 23:57:29-GMT,1606;000000000000 Return-Path: <rebecca@astrid.u-net.com> Received: from mserv1a.u-net.net (mserv1a.u-net.net [195.102.240.34]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id QAA10444 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 16:57:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from [195.102.197.31] (helo=[195.102.197.31]) by mserv1a.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #61) id 10HcZ2-00050h-00; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 23:57:33 +0000 X-Sender: rebecca-astrid@mail.u-net.com Message-Id: <l03130301b300d884d998@[195.102.197.100]> In-Reply-To: <199902282227.XAA12141@smtp.nordnet.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 23:53:02 +0000 To: Yannis Haralambous <yannis@fluxus-virus.com>, Thierry Bouche <Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr> From: Rebecca and Rowland <rebecca@astrid.u-net.com> Subject: Re: Axis in nfss Cc: Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project <LATEX-L@URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE>, "tex-fonts@math.utah.edu" <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> At 10:30 pm +0000 28/2/99, Yannis Haralambous wrote: >On 28/02/99 at 16:35, Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr (Thierry Bouche) wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Quite a long time ago, it was said that "the good way to implement >> MakeUppercase & friends would be to add a "case" axis to NFSS". > >I don't think this is the good way, as a matter of fact it cannot >work: uppercase/lowercase/smallcaps is language dependent, and as far >as I know there is no language axis yet in NFSS. How about a *shape* axis, to cover this and the `italicness' of a fount? With a separate axis for angle of lean? Or is this a stupid idea? [snip] Rowland. 3-Mar-1999 6:48:48-GMT,2058;000000000000 Return-Path: <lcs@topo.math.u-psud.fr> Received: from topo.math.u-psud.fr (root@topo.math.u-psud.fr [192.54.146.180]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id XAA22730 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 23:48:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from lcs by topo.math.u-psud.fr with local (Exim 2.10 #1) id 10I5PB-0001y3-00; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 07:45:17 +0100 To: CyrTeX-T2@vvv.vsu.ru, NTS-L@URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: text encoding compatibility Message-Id: <E10I5PB-0001y3-00@topo.math.u-psud.fr> From: Laurent Siebenmann <lcs@topo.math.u-psud.fr> Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 07:45:17 +0100 Dear Colleagues, I wrote in explaining the basic text font TeX encoding constraint: >>Clearly, this caprice is no constraint if the natural >>lowercase functions for all text fonts involved in the >>paragraph are one and the same. This sameness is the basic >>TeX encoding compatibility condition. Lars Hellstr"om replied: >I just think it should be mentioned that this is one of the flaws of TeX >that e-TeX has fixed (by maintaining a separate lowercase table for >hyphenation purposes for each language). I know that this was envisaged. But was it realized in web code? In real implementations? The NTS-L list <NTS-L@URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE> devoted to e-TeX and more ambitious stuff knows nothing about it, as Martin Schr"ode recently complained: > > Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 23:26:02 +0100 > From: Martin Schroeder <ms@DREAM.KN-BREMEN.DE> > Subject: Is this list still active? > To: Multiple recipients of list NTS-L <NTS-L@URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE> > > Hi, > having just received a request for renewal of my subscribtion to nts-l, > I wonder if this list is still active. I have heard _nothing_ on this > list on the current developement and it has been awfully quiet in 1998; > it seems the nts-team (whoever They may currently be :-)) has forgotten > the list... > > Best regards > Martin Clarifications please! Larry Siebenmann 3-Mar-1999 12:18:00-GMT,1664;000000000000 Return-Path: <wschmi@ibm.net> Received: from out2.ibm.net (out2.ibm.net [165.87.194.229]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id FAA29095 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 05:17:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from slip139-92-14-59.nue.de.ibm.net (slip139-92-14-59.nue.de.ibm.net [139.92.14.59]) by out2.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA158434; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 12:16:29 GMT Message-Id: <199903031216.MAA158434@out2.ibm.net> From: "Walter Schmidt" <wschmi@ibm.net> To: "server@dante.de" <server@dante.de>, "tex-fonts" <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 13:14:38 +0100 Reply-To: "wschmi@ibm.net" <wschmi@ibm.net> Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 1.96a (OS/2 Warp) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: CM fonts updated? The updated CM fonts on the CTAN now include a file cmex9.mf. The same file name can also be found in the "extra CM" fonts provided by the AMS. The MF code differs, with the AMS version obviously being the newer one. When you install the fonts, it is a question of chance which one will be used for creating the pk bitmap. IMHO the old cmex9 should be removed from the basic CM distribution. Greetings Walter ********************************************************************* Walter Schmidt <wschmi@ibm.net> Schornbaumstrasse 2, 91052 Erlangen, Germany pgp key (RSA, 1024 bit, id=69D36B8D): see <html://www.trustcenter.de> pgp key fingerprint: 1C E5 A5 D8 B8 F7 E2 EF 36 55 69 EC D8 26 94 A9 ********************************************************************* ... life is too short to learn emacs 3-Mar-1999 14:08:37-GMT,2673;000000000000 Return-Path: <vieth@thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de> Received: from xerxes.thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de (xerxes.thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de [134.99.64.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id HAA01270 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 07:08:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from attila.uni-duesseldorf.de (attila [134.99.64.144]) by xerxes.thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA19503; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 15:04:16 +0100 (MET) Received: by attila.uni-duesseldorf.de (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id PAA13855; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 15:04:16 +0100 Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 15:04:16 +0100 Message-Id: <199903031404.PAA13855@attila.uni-duesseldorf.de> To: wschmi@ibm.net CC: server@dante.de, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu In-reply-to: <199903031216.MAA158434@out2.ibm.net> (wschmi@ibm.net) Subject: Re: CM fonts updated? From: Ulrik Vieth <vieth@thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: <199903031216.MAA158434@out2.ibm.net> > The updated CM fonts on the CTAN now include a file cmex9.mf. > The same file name can also be found in the "extra CM" fonts > provided by the AMS. The MF code differs, with the AMS version > obviously being the newer one. When you install the fonts, it > is a question of chance which one will be used for creating > the pk bitmap. IMHO the old cmex9 should be removed from the > basic CM distribution. As far as I can tell, Don Knuth's version of cmex9.mf has been part of his distributions for many years already, but it is possible that it may not have appeared on CTAN until recently for some reason or other. In the 1995 distribution the file date of cmex9.mf was October 1987, which indicates that it was created as an afterthought to the other CM fonts during the time when DEK was working on Concrete Mathematics (see the graffitti macros in gkpmac.tex). Compared to the AMS version of cmex9, the only significant difference it is the font identifier ("CMEX" vs. "CMEX V2.2") and some whitespace in the source file, which shouldn't affect the generated fonts at all. In the teTeX distribution, Knuth's version of cmex9 has been in use in since early 1995, while cmex7 and cmex8 are taken from AMS fonts. A similar version conflict also exists for the file ebigof.mf (used to generate the euex10 font). Here, the teTeX distribution also has replaced the AMS version by Knuth's version, which happens to include a comment that says: % This is the driver file for EUEX fonts, before AMS screwed it up Obviously, this indicates a problem that should be sorted out by the AMS staff. Hope this explains it. Cheers, Ulrik. 3-Mar-1999 17:40:59-GMT,1633;000000000000 Return-Path: <Lars.Hellstrom@math.umu.se> Received: from mail.math.umu.se (root@abel.math.umu.se [130.239.20.139]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id KAA07323 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 10:40:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from [130.239.20.144] (mac144.math.umu.se [130.239.20.144]) by mail.math.umu.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA09076; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 18:39:06 +0100 (MET) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 18:39:06 +0100 (MET) X-Sender: lars@abel.math.umu.se (Unverified) Message-Id: <l03102801b30330ac89ce@[130.239.20.144]> In-Reply-To: <E10I5PB-0001y3-00@topo.math.u-psud.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" To: Laurent Siebenmann <lcs@topo.math.u-psud.fr> From: Lars =?iso-8859-1?Q?Hellstr=F6m?= <Lars.Hellstrom@math.umu.se> Subject: Re: text encoding compatibility Cc: CyrTeX-T2@vvv.vsu.ru, NTS-L@URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by csc-sun.math.utah.edu id KAA07326 >Lars Hellstr"om replied: > >>I just think it should be mentioned that this is one of the flaws of TeX >>that e-TeX has fixed (by maintaining a separate lowercase table for >>hyphenation purposes for each language). > >I know that this was envisaged. But was it realized in web code? >In real implementations? My source for that claim was a file etex_man.dvi (entitled The e-TeX manual) I found on some e-TeX WWW page. It is dated February 1998 and claims to describe e-TeX version 2, released in February 1998. That is, unfortunately, all I know of the matter. Lars Hellström 3-Mar-1999 19:42:38-GMT,1380;000000000000 Return-Path: <wschmi@ibm.net> Received: from out4.ibm.net (out4.ibm.net [165.87.194.239]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id MAA10922 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 12:42:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from slip139-92-14-114.nue.de.ibm.net (slip139-92-14-114.nue.de.ibm.net [139.92.14.114]) by out4.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA48980; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 19:42:21 GMT Message-Id: <199903031942.TAA48980@out4.ibm.net> From: "Walter Schmidt" <wschmi@ibm.net> To: "tex-fonts" <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu>, "Ulrik Vieth" <vieth@thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de> Cc: "server@dante.de" <server@dante.de> Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 20:41:23 +0100 Reply-To: "wschmi@ibm.net" <wschmi@ibm.net> Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 1.96a (OS/2 Warp) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: CM fonts updated? On Wed, 3 Mar 1999 15:04:16 +0100, Ulrik Vieth wrote: >Compared to the AMS version of cmex9, the only significant difference >it is the font identifier ("CMEX" vs. "CMEX V2.2") and some whitespace >in the source file, which shouldn't affect the generated fonts at all. Oh, I should have checked this before complaining. :-( Yet, thank you for the explanation. >A similar version conflict also exists for the file ebigof.mf Oh, this one is really bad! Thank you Walter 5-Mar-1999 15:43:28-GMT,3354;000000000000 Return-Path: <beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu> Received: from plot79.math.utah.edu (beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu [155.101.20.21]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id IAA08973; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 08:43:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from beebe@localhost) by plot79.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) id IAA02122; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 08:43:26 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 08:43:26 -0700 (MST) From: "Nelson H. F. Beebe" <beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu> To: "tex-fonts" <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> Cc: beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu X-US-Mail: "Center for Scientific Computing, Department of Mathematics, 322 INSCC, University of Utah, 155 S 1400 E RM 233, Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA" X-Telephone: +1 801 581 5254 X-FAX: +1 801 585 1640, +1 801 581 4148 X-URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe Subject: Re: CM fonts updated? Message-ID: <CMM.0.91.0.920648606.beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu> Following up on the discussion of cmex9.mf variants, I find this at ftp://ctan.tug.org/tex-archive/: ncftp /tex-archive > quote site index cmex9.mf index cmex9.mf NOTE. This index shows at most 20 lines. for a full list of files, retrieve /tex-archive/FILES.byname 1995/10/23 | 6140 | fonts/amsfonts/sources/extracm/cmex9.mf 1996/07/24 | 4209 | fonts/cm/mf/cmex9.mf 1999/01/20 | 29 | fonts/cm/sauter/ready-mf/cmex9.mf (end of 'index cmex9.mf') Notice that the more recent of the first two is smaller. For the other problem font, ebigof.mf, there is no trace of it found by "quote site index ebigof.mf". The smaller cmex9.mf file begins with the significant two-line comment % THIS IS THE OFFICIAL COMPUTER MODERN SOURCE FILE cmex9.mf BY D E KNUTH. % IT MUST NOT BE MODIFIED IN ANY WAY UNLESS THE FILE NAME IS CHANGED! while the larger one has an AMS file header labeled version 2.2 dated 4-Jan-1995. Ignoring the comment lines, diff finds only these differences: < font_identifier:="CMEX V2.2"; font_size 9pt#; --- > font_identifier:="CMEX"; font_size 9pt#; 56c25 < crisp#:=0/36pt#; % diameter of serif corners --- > crisp#:=0pt#; % diameter of serif corners Lines marked < are AMS, and those marked > are DEK. >From the dates, DEK's smaller version is the newest, and further, as the Grand Wizard, and CACM (Chief Architect of Computer Modern, not Communications of the Association for Computing Machinery), his version should prevail. So, is someone at the AMS on this list prepared to issue a version 2.3 dated 24-Jul-1996 with DEK's changes incorporated? [John Sauter's small cmex9.mf file just does design_size=9; input b-cmex; so it is using his scaling scheme, which should be subservient to designs for specific point sizes, like DEK's cmex9.mf.] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 - - Center for Scientific Computing FAX: +1 801 585 1640, +1 801 581 4148 - - University of Utah Internet e-mail: beebe@math.utah.edu - - Department of Mathematics, 322 INSCC beebe@acm.org - - 155 S 1400 E RM 233 beebe@ieee.org - - Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9-Mar-1999 11:10:57-GMT,3169;000000000000 Return-Path: <vieth@thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de> Received: from xerxes.thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de (xerxes.thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de [134.99.64.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id EAA00041; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 04:10:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from attila.uni-duesseldorf.de (attila [134.99.64.144]) by xerxes.thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA11386; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 12:10:44 +0100 (MET) Received: by attila.uni-duesseldorf.de (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA16252; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 12:10:52 +0100 Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 12:10:52 +0100 Message-Id: <199903091110.MAA16252@attila.uni-duesseldorf.de> To: beebe@csc-sun.math.utah.edu CC: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu In-reply-to: <CMM.0.91.0.920648606.beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu> Subject: Re: CM fonts updated? From: Ulrik Vieth <vieth@thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: <CMM.0.91.0.920648606.beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu> > Following up on the discussion of cmex9.mf variants, I find this at > ftp://ctan.tug.org/tex-archive/: > ncftp /tex-archive > quote site index cmex9.mf > index cmex9.mf > NOTE. This index shows at most 20 lines. for a full list of files, > retrieve /tex-archive/FILES.byname > 1995/10/23 | 6140 | fonts/amsfonts/sources/extracm/cmex9.mf > 1996/07/24 | 4209 | fonts/cm/mf/cmex9.mf > 1999/01/20 | 29 | fonts/cm/sauter/ready-mf/cmex9.mf > (end of 'index cmex9.mf') > Notice that the more recent of the first two is smaller. > For the other problem font, ebigof.mf, there is no trace of it found > by "quote site index ebigof.mf". You should be looking for "ebigop.mf" which gives you: 1995/10/25 | 44527 | fonts/amsfonts/sources/euler/ebigop.mf 1995/06/13 | 41910 | systems/knuth/local/cm/ebigop.mf > The smaller cmex9.mf file begins with the significant two-line comment > % THIS IS THE OFFICIAL COMPUTER MODERN SOURCE FILE cmex9.mf BY D E KNUTH. > % IT MUST NOT BE MODIFIED IN ANY WAY UNLESS THE FILE NAME IS CHANGED! > while the larger one has an AMS file header labeled version 2.2 dated > 4-Jan-1995. > Ignoring the comment lines, diff finds only these differences: > < font_identifier:="CMEX V2.2"; font_size 9pt#; > --- >> font_identifier:="CMEX"; font_size 9pt#; > 56c25 > < crisp#:=0/36pt#; % diameter of serif corners > --- >> crisp#:=0pt#; % diameter of serif corners > Lines marked < are AMS, and those marked > are DEK. > From the dates, DEK's smaller version is the newest, and further, as > the Grand Wizard, and CACM (Chief Architect of Computer Modern, not > Communications of the Association for Computing Machinery), his > version should prevail. > So, is someone at the AMS on this list prepared to issue a version 2.3 > dated 24-Jul-1996 with DEK's changes incorporated? Obviously the difference of 0/36pt# vs. 0pt# doesn't really matter. As for the font_identifier one might ask whether it should contain any version number at all. (After all the font_identifier gets written to the TFM files and would lead to changes even if the glyph dimensions remain unchanged.) Cheers, Ulrik. 14-Mar-1999 12:50:43-GMT,3280;000000000000 Return-Path: <MRiekert@compuserve.com> Received: from hil-img-5.compuserve.com (hil-img-5.compuserve.com [149.174.177.135]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id FAA07158 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 05:50:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from root@localhost) by hil-img-5.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.18) id HAA15559 for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 07:50:11 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 07:49:28 -0500 From: Marion Riekert <MRiekert@compuserve.com> Subject: Help!!!! Sender: Marion Riekert <MRiekert@compuserve.com> To: "tex-fonts@math.utah.edu." <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> Message-ID: <199903140749_MC2-6DE6-FBCE@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by csc-sun.math.utah.edu id FAA07159 Dear people, whoever you are, PLEASE take pity on me, and help me with the following font problem concerning OzTeX and my Macintosh. To give you an outline of the general setting: I do not have a really up-to-date Mac, and I do not have a modem connected to my Mac. However, I have a PC modem. This means that finding files for my Mac-TeX is always quite a bother, and I am fed up with it by now. Now: I use OzTeX to plain-tex my mathematical stuff. (I use plain TeX because my advisor uses it, I often type stuff for him. I have gotten used to it and can work with it quite well.) There are two font families I simply cannot access, namely the stuff which is called \Bbb and the stuff which is called \frak in amssym.tex or -.def or wherever it is. OzTex simply reports it cannot find the tfm files; the point is that they DO exist in my directory. Today I read in the docs that one gets with AMSfonts that I have to use some *.fd's in some "obsolete" subdirectory of some latex directory. I did that (even though I never use latex), and now I do not get any "missing fonts" message any more, but the fonts are simply \rm!!!!!!!!!!!!! And I still do not use any latex! And since I do quite a lot with lie algebras I _need_ the \fraks! Since I have never, never been able to secure any reliable info about the weird way TeX uses, links, connects and sets fonts, I am completely helpless. Since the names of the fonts are so weird (see "euex57") I can't in the least find out which files do what, and threading the definitions through the various input files that are loaded upon the start of TeX is, to say the least of it, confusing. Can you tell me what to do? If you know a _complete_, _working_, _commercial_ TeX for Mac which can be afforded by a student (actually, I am so frustrated my now that I would pay quite a lot for s.th. of the kind) and includes all the AMS gadgets, I would be VERY glad if you could tell me about it. Perhaps I should add here that I live in Germany, which adds to the problems, but I expect I could order the stuff through a reasonably well-stacked international retailer. What bugs me about all these free versions is that there is simply _no_ way to get help if you're stuck, and all people around me only use unix machines *sniff*. With many thanks in advance for any answer Marion Dickten MRiekert@compuserve.com 14-Mar-1999 17:37:30-GMT,4642;000000000000 Return-Path: <BNB@ams.org> Received: from sun06.ams.org (sun06.ams.org [130.44.1.6]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id KAA11928 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 10:37:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from axp14.ams.org by sun06.ams.org (PMDF V5.1-10 #27147) with ESMTP id <0F8L0001CIAF8J@sun06.ams.org> for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 12:37:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from AXP14.AMS.ORG by AXP14.AMS.ORG (PMDF V5.1-12 #30286) id <01J8TJXZJX4G001LKO@AXP14.AMS.ORG> for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 12:37:28 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 12:37:27 -0500 (EST) From: AMS Technical Support <tech-support@ams.org> Subject: Re: Help!!!! In-reply-to: <199903140749_MC2-6DE6-FBCE@compuserve.com> Sender: bbeeton <BNB@ams.org> To: Marion Riekert <MRiekert@compuserve.com> Cc: tech-support@ams.org, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Reply-to: tech-support@ams.org Message-id: <921433047.520592.BNB@MATH.AMS.ORG> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Mail-system-version: <MultiNet-MM(369)+TOPSLIB(158)+PMDF(5.1)@MATH.AMS.ORG> dear marion dikten, we're responsible for the amsfonts and their documentation, so i am concerned with the problem you describe: ... help me with the following font problem concerning OzTeX and my Macintosh. ... Today I read in the docs that one gets with AMSfonts that I have to use some *.fd's in some "obsolete" subdirectory of some latex directory. I did that (even though I never use latex), ... fonts to be used with plain tex have no need for any .fd files. what is important is that the .tfm files are located in the same place as you find cmr10.tfm. access to the blackboard bold (\Bbb) and fraktur alphabets should be adequate with what is provided in amssym.def (read in by amssym.tex) for 10pt environments; for other, smaller, sizes, the model shown in appendix e of the texbook should be followed. i have just checked the amsfonts user's guide (the file amsfndoc that should be part of the collection; it comes both in source form and as a .ps file ready for printing), and can find nothing about .fd files except in the section on using the fonts with latex. since you mention euex57, i guess that you are using the type 1 versions of these fonts. for printing, you will need the .pfb files in the same place as other .pfb files, e.g. cmr10.pfb -- the oztex documentation should say where that is. if you aren't getting any complaints from tex about the .tfm files, then it may be that the substitution of \rm fonts us done in the printing phase, leading to the conclusion that the .pfb files (or .px if you are using the rasters) are not where the dvi processor expects to find them. we have tried to make the amsfonts user guide clear; it has to cover quite a few different possibilities, so it certainly isn't perfect, but we have tried to distinguish clearly between these three typesetting environments - latex - ams-tex - plain tex or other macro packages and the four hardware/operating system environments - pc (dos and windows) - macintosh -- textures - macintosh -- oztex - unix if we have failed to do so, please let us know the specific areas of the amsfonts user's guide that are confusing, and we will try to fix them. also, if you have problems, the user's guide says where to send questions about using the fonts: tech-support@ams.org What bugs me about all these free versions is that there is simply _no_ way to get help if you're stuck, and all people around me only use unix machines *sniff*. you are welcome to send inquiries to ams tech-support if you are having problems with one of the ams collections. also, you may be interested in knowing that of all the mac implementations, oztex is the closest to unix -- in fact, use of the unix versions of the ams packages is recommended -- and the instructions should be understandable to most unix users. finally, there is an oztex-info mailing list, announced in andrew trevorrow's oztex web pages. subscribe by sending a message to majordomo@maths.adelaide.edu.au with this single line in the *body* of the message: subscribe oztex-info the announcement says Note that oxtex-info is for discussion about topics and problems related to OzTeX. ... Before sending a question to oztex-info, see if the OzTeX FAQ has the answer. this faq can be found at http:/www.kagi.com/authors/akt/ozfaq.html Barbara Beeton Technical Support Electronic Products and Services American Mathematical Society Phone: 800-321-4AMS (321-4267) or 401-455-4080 Internet: tech-support@ams.org 14-Mar-1999 18:11:31-GMT,2447;000000000000 Return-Path: <yharalambous@nordmail.nordnet.fr> Received: from smtp.nordnet.fr (root@smtp.nordnet.fr [194.206.126.239]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id LAA12634 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:11:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from 195.146.225.149 (gate7-149.nordnet.fr [195.146.225.149]) by smtp.nordnet.fr (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id TAA14603; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 19:11:18 +0100 Message-Id: <199903141811.TAA14603@smtp.nordnet.fr> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 19:14:46 +0100 From: Yannis Haralambous <yannis@fluxus-virus.com> Subject: Re: Help!!!! To: "tech-support@ams.org" <tech-support@ams.org> cc: Marion Riekert <MRiekert@compuserve.com>, "tech-support@ams.org" <tech-support@ams.org>, "tex-fonts@math.utah.edu" <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; Charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mailsmith (Bluto) On 14/03/99 at 12:37, tech-support@ams.org (AMS Technical Support) wrote: > you are welcome to send inquiries to ams tech-support if you are > having problems with one of the ams collections. also, you may be > interested in knowing that of all the mac implementations, oztex > is the closest to unix -- in fact, use of the unix versions of the Sorry Barbara, it is CMacTeX that is closest. IN fact, CMacTeX is based on the latest Web2C, while OzTeX first compiles TeX into Modula-2. CMacTeX has the complete Web2C distribution tools, including pdftex, etex, omega, metapost, etc. +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Yannis Haralambous, Ph.D. yannis@fluxus-virus.com | | http://www.fluxus-virus.com/yannis | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | 187, rue Nationale fax : +33 (0)3.20.40.28.64 | | 59800 Lille, France tél. : +33 (0)6.07.98.16.26 | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Visit the Omega home page!! http://www.ens.fr/omega | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ ...pour distinguer l'extérieur d'un aquarium, mieux vaut n'être pas poisson ...the ball I threw while playing in the park has never reached the ground 14-Mar-1999 19:32:49-GMT,1662;000000000000 Return-Path: <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id MAA14208 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 12:32:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from MAUI (maui.ai.mit.edu [128.52.37.105]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.9.1/AI2.7/ai.master.life:2.2) with SMTP id OAA06123; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:32:45 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990314143046.00acff10@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:33:13 -0500 To: Yannis Haralambous <yannis@fluxus-virus.com> From: Berthold Horn <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Subject: Re: Help!!!! Cc: "tex-fonts@math.utah.edu" <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> In-Reply-To: <199903141811.TAA14603@smtp.nordnet.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 19:14 1999-03-14 +0100, Yannis Haralambous wrote: >On 14/03/99 at 12:37, tech-support@ams.org (AMS Technical Support) wrote: >> you are welcome to send inquiries to ams tech-support if you are >> having problems with one of the ams collections. also, you may be >> interested in knowing that of all the mac implementations, oztex >> is the closest to unix -- in fact, use of the unix versions of the >Sorry Barbara, it is CMacTeX that is closest. IN fact, CMacTeX is based >on the latest Web2C, while OzTeX first compiles TeX into Modula-2. Of course, there is another question, which is whether it is neccessarily a good thing to be "closest to Unix" :-) On the Mac, for example, for many purposes, Textures may a better choice... Berthold K.P. Horn Cambridge, Massachusetts (M) 14-Mar-1999 22:23:46-GMT,3965;000000000000 Return-Path: <rebecca@astrid.u-net.com> Received: from mserv1a.u-net.net (mserv1a.u-net.net [195.102.240.34]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id PAA17446 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 15:23:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from [195.102.197.50] (helo=[195.102.197.50]) by mserv1a.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #61) id 10MJIT-00043M-00; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:23:50 +0000 X-Sender: rebecca-astrid@mail.u-net.com Message-Id: <l03130301b311e07af876@[195.102.196.54]> In-Reply-To: <921433047.520592.BNB@MATH.AMS.ORG> References: <199903140749_MC2-6DE6-FBCE@compuserve.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:14:49 +0000 To: tech-support@ams.org, Marion Riekert <MRiekert@compuserve.com> From: Rebecca and Rowland <rebecca@astrid.u-net.com> Subject: Re: Help!!!! Cc: tech-support@ams.org, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu At 5:37 pm +0000 14/3/99, AMS Technical Support wrote: >dear marion dikten, >we're responsible for the amsfonts and their documentation, so i am >concerned with the problem you describe: > > ... help me with the following > font problem concerning OzTeX and my Macintosh. > > ... Today I read in the docs that one gets with AMSfonts > that I have to use some *.fd's in some "obsolete" subdirectory of some > latex directory. I did that (even though I never use latex), ... > >fonts to be used with plain tex have no need for any .fd files. >what is important is that the .tfm files are located in the same >place as you find cmr10.tfm. In this case, I would suggest that this is a bad idea, and that the tfm files should be kept in a different folder. OzTeX:tex-fonts:AMS: would be a much better idea. [snip] >since you mention euex57, i guess that you are using the type 1 >versions of these fonts. for printing, you will need the .pfb >files in the same place as other .pfb files, e.g. cmr10.pfb -- >the oztex documentation should say where that is. OzTeX runs on Macs, which don't use pfb files[1]. Printer fount files of type code LWFN are the Mac equivalent. They normally live in the System Folder:Fonts: folder, but you can keep them elsewhere if you use a fount management utility like Carpetbag (shareware), ATM deluxe, and so on. ATM on my Mac makes a *really* bad job of rendering the PS Type 1 CM/PS founts, so I always use the pk versions of the CM founts unless I'm preparing pdf or ps output. > if you aren't >getting any complaints from tex about the .tfm files, then it may >be that the substitution of \rm fonts us done in the printing >phase, leading to the conclusion that the .pfb files (or .px if >you are using the rasters) are not where the dvi processor expects >to find them. Printer fount files or pk files. [snip] >if we have failed to do so, please let us know the specific areas >of the amsfonts user's guide that are confusing, and we will try to >fix them. I use OzTeX, and I didn't have any particular trouble with the AMS founts. But the AMSFonts Users' Guide (version 2.2 Jan 1997) has exactly no information in it to help me work out where to put the various files. The Mac installation instructions are clearly very old, Textures specific, and seem to have no connection at all with the files I actually downloaded from CTAN. I'm a great fan of old Macs, but even I think there's no need to have System 6 installation instructions available in 1999 (System 6 became obsolete in 1991 IIRC. I use it on a couple of Macs I've got, but even so...). I suggest that a section needs to be written from scratch on how to install the AMS founts for use with OzTeX. [snip] Rowland. [1] OzTeX's usual dvi driver can't use pfb files at all AFAIK; it can use LWFN files if you've got ATM installed or you're printing to a PS printer. OzTeX can use pfb, pfa, or LWFN files if you're using its built-in version of dvips to prepare a PS file; but for that to be worthwhile, you do need a PS printer. 14-Mar-1999 22:23:44-GMT,2246;000000000000 Return-Path: <rebecca@astrid.u-net.com> Received: from mserv1a.u-net.net (mserv1a.u-net.net [195.102.240.34]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id PAA17442 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 15:23:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from [195.102.197.50] (helo=[195.102.197.50]) by mserv1a.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #61) id 10MJIa-00043M-00 for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:23:56 +0000 X-Sender: rebecca-astrid@mail.u-net.com Message-Id: <l03130302b311e5822739@[195.102.196.54]> In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990314143046.00acff10@mail.ai.mit.edu> References: <199903141811.TAA14603@smtp.nordnet.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:18:42 +0000 To: "tex-fonts@math.utah.edu" <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> From: Rebecca and Rowland <rebecca@astrid.u-net.com> Subject: Re: Help!!!! At 7:33 pm +0000 14/3/99, Berthold Horn wrote: >At 19:14 1999-03-14 +0100, Yannis Haralambous wrote: > >>On 14/03/99 at 12:37, tech-support@ams.org (AMS Technical Support) wrote: > >>> you are welcome to send inquiries to ams tech-support if you are >>> having problems with one of the ams collections. also, you may be >>> interested in knowing that of all the mac implementations, oztex >>> is the closest to unix -- in fact, use of the unix versions of the > >>Sorry Barbara, it is CMacTeX that is closest. IN fact, CMacTeX is based >>on the latest Web2C, while OzTeX first compiles TeX into Modula-2. > >Of course, there is another question, which is whether it is neccessarily >a good thing to be "closest to Unix" :-) In this case, being close to Unix is a bad thing in one way at least. Many of CMacTeX's tools have to be quit and re-launched each time you want to run them, which is just plain inefficient on a Mac. But... That's how they work under Unix (where it's not a problem), and that's how they have to work on a Mac. OzTeX deals with the problems that cause this to be necessary (memory allocation, I think) where it uses Unix-originating code like dvips. >On the Mac, for example, for many purposes, Textures may a better choice... It might be, but then again, OzTeX does work very well when set up right and it's *much* cheaper. Rowland. 23-Mar-1999 13:08:47-GMT,2513;000000000000 Return-Path: <sx0005@sx2.hrz.uni-dortmund.de> Received: from nx5.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE (nx5.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE [129.217.131.21]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id GAA25160 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 06:08:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from sx2.hrz.uni-dortmund.de by nx5.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE (PP) with ESMTP; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:07:33 +0100 Received: from rigel.univie.ac.at (dial-143133.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE [129.217.143.133]) by sx2.hrz.uni-dortmund.de (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA20823; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:07:12 +0100 (MET) Received: (from sx0005@localhost) by rigel.univie.ac.at (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA19815; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 06:16:28 GMT Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 06:16:28 GMT Message-Id: <199903230616.GAA19815@rigel.univie.ac.at> X-Authentication-Warning: rigel.univie.ac.at: sx0005 set sender to sx0005@sx2.hrz.uni-dortmund.de using -f From: Werner LEMBERG <sx0005@sx2.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE> To: popineau@ese-metz.fr Cc: te@informatik.uni-hannover.de, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu, taupin@lps.u-psud.fr In-reply-to: <002301be74b2$0a6192c0$dfe030c1@esemetz.fr> (popineau@ese-metz.fr) Subject: Re: ttf2pk for TeX Live 4 Reply-to: Werner LEMBERG <wl@gnu.org> References: <002301be74b2$0a6192c0$dfe030c1@esemetz.fr> >Can you tell me the differences between 3.2 and 3.3 I must apply to >the code except the change DllImport->KPSEDLL? Then I can add >identification code for version 3.3 to the configure script. I have no other changes up to now. Thanks. I'll add a test to the configure script for that. I'm rather confused by the fact that there are tfm fonts from type1 fonts on the texlive cd that correspond (at least the name !) to some ttf fonts commonly found on windows (New Century Schoolbook and so on). Well, many foundries sell the identical typeface in TrueType and in PostScript format. Theoretically, no differences should appear in shape (nevertheless, I dare to say that for very small sizes resp. resolutions, TTFs yield better results because of the hinting program resp. bitmap strikes built into the font), but I fear that life is different, and that the shapes *do* differ thus a different typeface name or a variant flag is needed. In case the fonts are really equal, the mktexpk script is set up that the PS incarnation is found first, AFAIK. So it might be nice to have an install script for TTF/PS fonts which warns if a identically named PS/TTF font is installed already. Werner 23-Mar-1999 14:14:37-GMT,3944;000000000000 Return-Path: <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id HAA26473 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 07:14:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from MAUI (maui.ai.mit.edu [128.52.37.105]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.9.1/AI2.7/ai.master.life:2.2) with SMTP id JAA15542; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 09:14:11 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990323090138.00aca700@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 09:14:50 -0500 To: Werner LEMBERG <wl@gnu.org>, popineau@ese-metz.fr From: Berthold Horn <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Subject: Re: ttf2pk for TeX Live 4 Cc: te@informatik.uni-hannover.de, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu, taupin@lps.u-psud.fr In-Reply-To: <199903230616.GAA19815@rigel.univie.ac.at> References: <002301be74b2$0a6192c0$dfe030c1@esemetz.fr> <002301be74b2$0a6192c0$dfe030c1@esemetz.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 06:16 1999-03-23 +0000, Werner LEMBERG wrote: > I'm rather confused by the fact that there are tfm fonts from type1 > fonts on the texlive cd that correspond (at least the name !) to > some ttf fonts commonly found on windows (New Century Schoolbook > and so on). Err, not quite. The TrueType font is called "Century Schoolbook". Also, what "name" are you refering to? Fonts have many names including PS FontName, PS FullName, Font Menu Name (Windows Face name in Windows or QuickDraw Menu name on the Mac), TTF Full Name, font file name, etc. >Well, many foundries sell the identical typeface in TrueType and in >PostScript format. In addition, in many cases there are related but not identical typefaces in T1 and TT format that have matching metrics so one can be substituted for the other without too dramatic differences. But such "clones" while having identical metrics can often be distinguished by typographic detail. And typically do have different names - even if only slightly different. For example, Windows comes with Times New Roman in TT format, which is used as a substitute for Times Roman in T1 format. And Arial in TT format is used as a substitude for Helvetica, and Courier New as a substitute for Courier. In each case the metrics match, but the shapes are distinguishable if you know what to look for. >Theoretically, no differences should appear in >shape (nevertheless, I dare to say that for very small sizes >resp. resolutions, TTFs yield better results because of the hinting >program Urban legend :-) Since TrueType has an inferior rasterizer it has to have more complex hinting to make up for drop-outs and other errors. This means that good hinting of TrueType fonts takes about an order of magnitude more work than good hinting of Type 1 fonts. As a result most commercial Type 1 fonts are fairly well hinted, while most TrueType fonts are not. The exception being the core Windows fonts (done for MS by Type Solutions and MonoType) and the core Apple fonts, and *some* of the fonts from MonoType, but not all. For an interesting comparison see: http://www.yandy.com/compare.htm There are also some links there to additional information on hinting. > resp. bitmap strikes built into the font), This seems very rare, except on the Mac perhaps where the 72 dpi screen makes for a tougher rasterizing job than Windows 96 dpi or 120 dpi. And there T1 fonts typically come with "screen font" bitmaps. >but I fear that life is different, and that the shapes *do* differ thus a different >typeface name or a variant flag is needed. >In case the fonts are really equal, the mktexpk script is set up that >the PS incarnation is found first, AFAIK. >So it might be nice to have an install script for TTF/PS fonts which >warns if a identically named PS/TTF font is installed already. Regards, Berthold. Berthold K.P. Horn Cambridge, Massachusetts (M) 23-Mar-1999 17:47:14-GMT,3259;000000000000 Return-Path: <vieth@thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de> Received: from xerxes.thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de (xerxes.thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de [134.99.64.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id KAA02045 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 10:46:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from attila.uni-duesseldorf.de (attila [134.99.64.144]) by xerxes.thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA11611; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:45:19 +0100 (MET) Received: by attila.uni-duesseldorf.de (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id SAA28619; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:45:43 +0100 Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:45:43 +0100 Message-Id: <199903231745.SAA28619@attila.uni-duesseldorf.de> To: bkph@ai.mit.edu CC: wl@gnu.org, popineau@ese-metz.fr, te@informatik.uni-hannover.de, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu, taupin@lps.u-psud.fr In-reply-to: <4.1.19990323090138.00aca700@mail.ai.mit.edu> (message from Berthold Horn on Tue, 23 Mar 1999 09:14:50 -0500) Subject: Re: ttf2pk for TeX Live 4 From: Ulrik Vieth <vieth@thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: <002301be74b2$0a6192c0$dfe030c1@esemetz.fr> <002301be74b2$0a6192c0$dfe030c1@esemetz.fr> <4.1.19990323090138.00aca700@mail.ai.mit.edu> >> Well, many foundries sell the identical typeface in TrueType and in >> PostScript format. > In addition, in many cases there are related but not identical > typefaces in T1 and TT format that have matching metrics so one can > be substituted for the other without too dramatic differences. But > such "clones" while having identical metrics can often be > distinguished by typographic detail. And typically do have > different names - even if only slightly different. > For example, Windows comes with Times New Roman in TT format, which > is used as a substitute for Times Roman in T1 format. And Arial in > TT format is used as a substitude for Helvetica, and Courier New as > a substitute for Courier. In each case the metrics match, but the > shapes are distinguishable if you know what to look for. Well, if you want to make the distinction clear, you should not forget to look at the original suppliers. Adobe Times Roman (from Linotype) -> ptm Adobe Helvetica (from Linotype) -> phv Adobe Courier -> pcr Monotype Times New Roman -> mnt Monotype Arial -> ma1 Monotype Corrier New -> mcr Now the real question is whether Monotype TT fonts on Windows are excatly the same as the Monotype TT fonts on Solaris 2.6. Another question is whehter Monotype Bembo in TT is the same as Adobe Bembo (licendsed from Monotype) in T1. >> In case the fonts are really equal, the mktexpk script is set up that >> the PS incarnation is found first, AFAIK. >> So it might be nice to have an install script for TTF/PS fonts which >> warns if a identically named PS/TTF font is installed already. If you get a font in both TTF and PS format from the same supplier, chances are good that both fonts should be exactly the same. However, if you are comparing Times vs. Times New or Helvetica vs. Arial, which come from different suppliers, I don't see the point in pretending that both are the same, although they are most likely not identical. Cheers, Ulrik. 23-Mar-1999 21:53:47-GMT,3989;000000000000 Return-Path: <rebecca@astrid.u-net.com> Received: from mserv1c.u-net.net ([195.102.240.33]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id OAA08689 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:53:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from [195.102.196.218] (helo=[195.102.196.218]) by mserv1c.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #34) id 10PZ6K-00039s-00; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 21:52:44 +0000 X-Sender: rebecca-astrid@mail.u-net.com Message-Id: <l03130302b31d95491dd2@[195.102.196.150]> In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990323090138.00aca700@mail.ai.mit.edu> References: <199903230616.GAA19815@rigel.univie.ac.at> <002301be74b2$0a6192c0$dfe030c1@esemetz.fr> <002301be74b2$0a6192c0$dfe030c1@esemetz.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 20:28:45 +0000 To: Berthold Horn <bkph@ai.mit.edu>, Werner LEMBERG <wl@gnu.org>, popineau@ese-metz.fr From: Rebecca and Rowland <rebecca@astrid.u-net.com> Subject: Re: ttf2pk for TeX Live 4 Cc: te@informatik.uni-hannover.de, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu, taupin@lps.u-psud.fr [snip] >>Theoretically, no differences should appear in >>shape (nevertheless, I dare to say that for very small sizes >>resp. resolutions, TTFs yield better results because of the hinting >>program > >Urban legend :-) Since TrueType has an inferior rasterizer it has to have >more >complex hinting to make up for drop-outs and other errors. This means that >good hinting of TrueType fonts takes about an order of magnitude more work >than good hinting of Type 1 fonts. As a result most commercial Type 1 fonts >are fairly well hinted, while most TrueType fonts are not. The exception >being >the core Windows fonts (done for MS by Type Solutions and MonoType) and >the core Apple fonts, and *some* of the fonts from MonoType, but not all. Well... For some reason, I have shareware founts available in TrueType and PS Type 1 format, and when I print (using the TT rasteriser built into MacOS 7.6.1 and ATM 4.0.3), I reckon the TrueType version is better than the PS Type 1 version in the few cases where I can tell the difference. Now then... If a shareware TrueType fount manages this, what about commercial ones? I think it's a bit more of an urban legend that ATM is such a good rasteriser. I've seen no evidence of it myself, and I've seen no evidence of TrueType founts being poor quality compared to PS Type 1 founts. Quite the opposite, in fact. btw Berthold - have you received my test prints yet? >For an interesting comparison see: > >http://www.yandy.com/compare.htm You're right that it's interesting - interesting in that I've used both TrueType and PS Type 1 versions of the CM founts and I've never seen either of them look that bad. Could it be that Y&Y is trying to `do down' TrueType so that people spend money on its PS Type 1 founts? Surely not... Yes, the TrueType versions do end up a bit rougher on screen compared to the CM/PS founts rendered by ATM. There is very little difference if you're using screen bitmap founts and a version of the MacOS that doesn't do anti aliasing of TrueType founts. However... I've never seen TrueType founts looking as they do on this Web page. On top of that, the comparison isn't a particularly good one: it's comparing on screen renditions (which rasterisers and which founts exactly?) and one is normally more interested in printed renditions. Some mention was made of scaling as well - I suspect it's a set-up designed to make the TrueType versions look much worse than they normally would. >This seems very rare, except on the Mac perhaps where the 72 dpi screen makes >for a tougher rasterizing job than Windows 96 dpi or 120 dpi. And there >T1 fonts >typically come with "screen font" bitmaps. Well... screen bitmaps are ignored if you're using ATM, which makes a pretty good job of on-screen rasterising with anti-aliasing. On top of that, not many users of modern Macs run their monitors at 72dpi any more. [snip] Rowland. 24-Mar-1999 13:40:51-GMT,2740;000000000000 Return-Path: <sx0005@sx2.hrz.uni-dortmund.de> Received: from nx5.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE (nx5.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE [129.217.131.21]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id GAA00746 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 06:40:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from sx2.hrz.uni-dortmund.de by nx5.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE (PP) with ESMTP; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 14:37:56 +0100 Received: from rigel.univie.ac.at (dial-143184.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE [129.217.143.184]) by sx2.hrz.uni-dortmund.de (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA07748; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 14:37:43 +0100 (MET) Received: (from sx0005@localhost) by rigel.univie.ac.at (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA25559; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 08:15:48 GMT Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 08:15:48 GMT Message-Id: <199903240815.IAA25559@rigel.univie.ac.at> X-Authentication-Warning: rigel.univie.ac.at: sx0005 set sender to sx0005@sx2.hrz.uni-dortmund.de using -f From: Werner LEMBERG <sx0005@sx2.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE> To: vieth@thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de CC: bkph@ai.mit.edu, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu, taupin@lps.u-psud.fr In-reply-to: <199903231745.SAA28619@attila.uni-duesseldorf.de> (message from Ulrik Vieth on Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:45:43 +0100) Subject: Re: ttf2pk for TeX Live 4 Reply-to: Werner LEMBERG <wl@gnu.org> References: <002301be74b2$0a6192c0$dfe030c1@esemetz.fr> <002301be74b2$0a6192c0$dfe030c1@esemetz.fr> <4.1.19990323090138.00aca700@mail.ai.mit.edu> <199903231745.SAA28619@attila.uni-duesseldorf.de> > For example, Windows comes with Times New Roman in TT format, > which is used as a substitute for Times Roman in T1 format. And > Arial in TT format is used as a substitude for Helvetica, and > Courier New as a substitute for Courier. In each case the > metrics match, but the shapes are distinguishable if you know > what to look for. Now the real question is whether Monotype TT fonts on Windows are excatly the same as the Monotype TT fonts on Solaris 2.6. I think yes. But the versions may differ -- e.g. Monotype Times on Windows 3.1 has much less glyphs than for Windows 95. So the question is how to identify different versions of the same font? >> So it might be nice to have an install script for TTF/PS fonts >> which warns if a identically named PS/TTF font is installed >> already. If you get a font in both TTF and PS format from the same supplier, chances are good that both fonts should be exactly the same. However, if you are comparing Times vs. Times New or Helvetica vs. Arial, which come from different suppliers, I don't see the point in pretending that both are the same, although they are most likely not identical. I only thought of identical font names coming from the same foundry. Werner 26-Mar-1999 18:34:32-GMT,1262;000000000000 Return-Path: <lcs@topo.math.u-psud.fr> Received: from topo.math.u-psud.fr (root@topo.math.u-psud.fr [192.54.146.180]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id LAA14243 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:34:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from lcs by topo.math.u-psud.fr with local (Exim 2.10 #1) id 10QbR7-0003mO-00; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 19:34:29 +0100 To: lcs@topo.math.u-psud.fr, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: design size in DVI Message-Id: <E10QbR7-0003mO-00@topo.math.u-psud.fr> From: Laurent Siebenmann <lcs@topo.math.u-psud.fr> Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 19:34:29 +0100 On the net, I have obtained a DVI file (*not* TFM, VF, MF,...) calling the following version of cmr10: -- checksum[4]: 11374260171 octal %%(standard!) -- at_size[4]: 13.95... %% anything goes -- design_size[4]: 14 %% normally 10 My questions: (1) How could a design size 14 occur in practice? (2) Does/should anybody or anything currently pay attention to the design size entry? If the answer to (2) is "nobody and nothing" then that is the place where Berthold and others can stuff their extra font information rather then in the check sum, which is fraught with other conventions. Cordially Laurent Siebenmann 26-Mar-1999 18:35:28-GMT,1308;000000000000 Return-Path: <Laurent.SIEBENMANN@math.u-psud.fr> Received: from matups.math.u-psud.fr (matups.matups.fr [192.54.146.4]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id LAA14281 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:35:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from (lcs@localhost) by matups.math.u-psud.fr (8.9.1a/jtpda-5.3.1) id TAA09285 ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 19:35:24 +0100 (MET) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 19:35:24 +0100 (MET) From: Laurent.SIEBENMANN@math.u-psud.fr (Laurent SIEBENMANN) Message-Id: <199903261835.TAA09285@matups.math.u-psud.fr> To: lcs@math.u-psud.fr, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: design size in DVI On the net, I have obtained a DVI file (*not* TFM, VF, MF,...) calling the following version of cmr10: -- checksum[4]: 11374260171 octal %%(standard!) -- at_size[4]: 13.95... %% anything goes -- design_size[4]: 14 %% normally 10 My questions: (1) How could a design size 14 occur in practice? (2) Does/should anybody or anything currently pay attention to the design size entry? If the answer to (2) is "nobody and nothing" then that is the place where Berthold and others can stuff their extra font information rather then in the check sum, which is fraught with other conventions. Cordially Laurent Siebenmann 26-Mar-1999 19:34:30-GMT,707;000000000000 Return-Path: <karl@tug.org> Received: from tug.org (IDENT:karl@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id MAA15755 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 12:34:29 -0700 (MST) From: karl@tug.org Received: (from karl@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA29979; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 14:34:27 -0500 Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 14:34:27 -0500 Message-Id: <199903261934.OAA29979@tug.org> To: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: fontname update I've updated ftp://tug.org/tex/fontname/ and http://tug.org/fontname/ with Ulrik's latest round of changes. I also made a few trivial changes to the manual. Sebastian, please grab for TeX Live if it's not too late. 26-Mar-1999 20:48:44-GMT,1745;000000000000 Return-Path: <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id NAA17815 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 13:48:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from MAUI (p81.tc19a.metro.MA.tiac.com [207.60.68.82]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.3/AI2.10/ai.master.life:2.4) with SMTP id PAA08242 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 15:48:41 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990326154340.025144d0@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 15:49:23 -0500 To: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu From: Berthold Horn <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Subject: Re: design size in DVI In-Reply-To: <199903261835.TAA09285@matups.math.u-psud.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 19:35 1999-03-26 +0100, Laurent SIEBENMANN wrote: >(2) Does/should anybody or anything currently pay attention to >the design size entry? > >If the answer to (2) is "nobody and nothing" then that is the place where >Berthold and others can stuff their extra font information rather >then in the check sum, which is fraught with other conventions. Err, no. ONLY the checksum is useful, since it is the only thing that makes it into the DVI file. And the idea of using the check sum to specify the encoding only makes sense because the DVI processor can see it (there are other places in the TFM files that can and are already used to hide information - but these are not of much use since they are not copied into the DVI file). Regards, Berthold. Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph/bkph.html Would you say I have a plethora of pinatas? 26-Mar-1999 21:33:36-GMT,1948;000000000000 Return-Path: <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id OAA19122 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 14:33:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from MAUI (maui.ai.mit.edu [128.52.37.105]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.3/AI2.10/ai.master.life:2.4) with SMTP id QAA10510 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 16:33:34 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990326155321.02515200@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 16:34:16 -0500 To: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu From: Berthold Horn <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Subject: Re: design size in DVI Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Oops. Should check before hastily responding :-( Checksum, Atsize, and Designsize all make it into the DVI file. So yes, one could use Designsize to hide information. However, TeX itselfs uses Designsize, so better not fiddle with it in the TFM file. Regards, Berthold At 19:35 1999-03-26 +0100, Laurent SIEBENMANN wrote: >(2) Does/should anybody or anything currently pay attention to >the design size entry? > >If the answer to (2) is "nobody and nothing" then that is the place where >Berthold and others can stuff their extra font information rather >then in the check sum, which is fraught with other conventions. Err, no. ONLY the checksum is useful, since it is the only thing that makes it into the DVI file. And the idea of using the check sum to specify the encoding only makes sense because the DVI processor can see it (there are other places in the TFM files that can and are already used to hide information - but these are not of much use since they are not copied into the DVI file). Regards, Berthold. Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph/bkph.html Would you say I have a plethora of pinatas? 27-Mar-1999 0:35:45-GMT,2441;000000000000 Return-Path: <beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu> Received: from plot79.math.utah.edu (beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu [155.101.20.21]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id RAA23661; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 17:35:45 -0700 (MST) Received: (from beebe@localhost) by plot79.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) id RAA07900; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 17:35:43 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 17:35:43 -0700 (MST) From: "Nelson H. F. Beebe" <beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu> To: Laurent Siebenmann <lcs@topo.math.u-psud.fr> Cc: beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu, lcs@topo.math.u-psud.fr, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu X-US-Mail: "Center for Scientific Computing, Department of Mathematics, 322 INSCC, University of Utah, 155 S 1400 E RM 233, Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA" X-Telephone: +1 801 581 5254 X-FAX: +1 801 585 1640, +1 801 581 4148 X-URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe Subject: Re: design size in DVI In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 26 Mar 1999 19:34:29 +0100 Message-ID: <CMM.0.91.0.922494943.beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu> Laurent Siebenmann writes: >> (2) Does/should anybody or anything currently pay attention to >> the design size entry? Yes, certainly, I found 27 references to it in my own DVI driver family code, and here is a sample snippet of how it is used: /* Compute the font magnification from the at_size and design_size specified in the DVI file, further modified by TeX-time and DVI-time magnifications, and output device resolution. We need this information in openfont() which is called below. */ tfontptr->font_mag = (UNSIGN32)( (actfact(MAGSIZE((double)tfontptr->at_size/ (double)tfontptr->design_size)) * ((double)runmag/(double)dvimag) * actfact(mag) * (double)RESOLUTION * 5.0) + 0.5); ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 - - Center for Scientific Computing FAX: +1 801 585 1640, +1 801 581 4148 - - University of Utah Internet e-mail: beebe@math.utah.edu - - Department of Mathematics, 322 INSCC beebe@acm.org - - 155 S 1400 E RM 233 beebe@ieee.org - - Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27-Mar-1999 15:38:55-GMT,1692;000000000000 Return-Path: <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Received: from mail-out-0.tiac.net (mail-out-0.tiac.net [199.0.65.247]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id IAA09650 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 08:38:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail-out-1.tiac.net (mail-out-1.tiac.net [199.0.65.12]) by mail-out-0.tiac.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA02690 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 10:38:45 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bkph@ai.mit.edu) Received: from DENALI (p21.tc1.metro.MA.tiac.com [209.61.75.22]) by mail-out-1.tiac.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA29039 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 10:41:19 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990327103649.00a9d440@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 10:39:04 -0500 To: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Subject: Re: design size in DVI In-Reply-To: <CMM.0.91.0.922494943.beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu> References: <Your message of Fri, 26 Mar 1999 19:34:29 +0100> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 05:35 PM 99/03/26 -0700, Nelson H. F. Beebe wrote: >Yes, certainly, I found 27 references to it in my own DVI driver family >code, and here is a sample snippet of how it is used: Interestingly, DVIPSONE and DVIWIndo have no reference to design size, simple reading and discarding the word. Must have something to do with working with scalable outline fonts... But TeX uses it (for example to know what size you want when you don't explicitly specify a size for a font). Regards, Berthold. Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu 28-Mar-1999 3:55:40-GMT,2424;000000000000 Return-Path: <lcs@topo.math.u-psud.fr> Received: from topo.math.u-psud.fr (root@topo.math.u-psud.fr [192.54.146.180]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id UAA23750 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 20:55:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from lcs by topo.math.u-psud.fr with local (Exim 2.10 #1) id 10R6fh-0004L7-00 for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 05:55:37 +0200 To: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: design size in DVI Message-Id: <E10R6fh-0004L7-00@topo.math.u-psud.fr> From: Laurent Siebenmann <lcs@topo.math.u-psud.fr> Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 05:55:37 +0200 Thanks to Berthold and Nelson for replies to my question: > (2) Does/should anybody or anything currently pay attention to > the design size entry? I see it essentially as Berthold does. Some extra details: -- DVIPS will complain if a font's "design_size" in the DVI does not coincide with design size in the TFM; many other drivers ignore it entirely. -- The size of the print is entirely determined by "at_size", and is directly proportional to it. More precisely, a character's box width on paper is: "TFM width" * "at_size" * mag/1000 Similarly for all other dimensions dictated by the TFM. -- DVI drivers ignore "design_size" in the DVI and in the TFM or VF, except for the mentioned coherence check; ie drivers at most use "design_size" as an extra checksum. -- TeX invariably copies "design_size" from TFM to DVI, which is the same behavior as for the checksum. -- TeX however also uses "design_size" when the following syntax is met: \font\fnt=myfont and it responds by setting the "at_size" in the DVI equal to the "design_size" in "myfont.tfm". It similarly uses "design_size" in interpreting \font\fnt=myfont scaled <mils> But TeX does *not* use "design_size" in interpreting \font\fnt=myfont at 14pt indeed it simply sets the "at_size" in the DVI to 14pt. IN SUMMARY: "design_size" is used in a way that influences what appears on paper/screen only by TeX, which, merely for user syntax convenience, sometimes uses it as a default "at_size" in interpreting font definitions. If the use of the keyword "at" in TeX font definitions were *obligatory* (thus "scaled" would be forbidden) then "design_size" would be nothing more nor less than an extra checksum, something that Carl Berry and Berthold Horn badly want. Near miss. Too bad! Cheers Larry S 28-Mar-1999 13:51:24-GMT,1919;000000000000 Return-Path: <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id GAA04466 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 06:51:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from MAUI (maui.ai.mit.edu [128.52.37.105]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.3/AI2.10/ai.master.life:2.4) with SMTP id IAA14314 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 08:51:22 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990328082640.00ac64b0@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 08:29:16 -0500 To: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu From: Berthold Horn <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Subject: Re: design size in DVI In-Reply-To: <E10R6fh-0004L7-00@topo.math.u-psud.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 05:55 1999-03-28 +0200, Laurent Siebenmann wrote: >IN SUMMARY: "design_size" is used in a way that >influences what appears on paper/screen only by TeX, >which, merely for user syntax convenience, >sometimes uses it as a default "at_size" in >interpreting font definitions. If the use of the >keyword "at" in TeX font definitions were >*obligatory* (thus "scaled" would be forbidden) then >"design_size" would be nothing more nor less than an >extra checksum, something that Carl Berry and >Berthold Horn badly want. > >Near miss. Too bad! By the way, TeX itself does nothing with the checksum other than copy it to the DVI file. For checking whether TFM files are set up for the correct encoding, it is handy to make fontdimen 0 be the checksum so you can interrogate it from inside TeX... Non-standard of course, but turned off by the -K (Knuth) flag that kills all such extensions... Regards, Berthold. Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph/bkph.html Would you say I have a plethora of piñatas? 29-Mar-1999 6:26:21-GMT,2399;000000000000 Return-Path: <Laurent.SIEBENMANN@math.u-psud.fr> Received: from matups.math.u-psud.fr (mathups.math.u-psud.fr [194.199.162.4]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id XAA24020 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 23:26:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from (lcs@localhost) by matups.math.u-psud.fr (8.9.1a/jtpda-5.3.1) id IAA15990 for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 08:26:17 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 08:26:17 +0200 (MET DST) From: Laurent.SIEBENMANN@math.u-psud.fr (Laurent SIEBENMANN) Message-Id: <199903290626.IAA15990@matups.math.u-psud.fr> To: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: dimension based checksums *** dimension based checksums *** (was: Re: design size in DVI) Berthold writes: > For checking whether TFM files > are set up for the correct encoding, it is handy to make > fontdimen 0 be the checksum so you can interrogate it > from inside TeX... This makes sense since fontdimen 0 is NOT A DIMENSION but rather a pure number that is independant of the "at_size". (It is officially the tan of the angle of slant of the font.) > Non-standard of course. And dangerous since a macro package could legitimately use fontdimen 0 as what Knuth states. Would it not make more sense to use *several* exotic font dimensions as follows? One is set to 1.0pt (in the TFM) a second is the checksum "cs" and a third is "CS" the word reversed checksum. Then TeX will read "at_size", "at_size" * "cs", and "at_size" * "CS" respectively. Then a simple calculation determines the checksum "cs" in spite of over/under flow under multiplication. (This assumes "at_size" is neither huge nor tiny, and it never is.) It is not dangerous like the use of fontdimen 0. This is not as tidy, but the space efficiency is still better than 1/3 since it is good to have "at_size" handy. You may consider this inelegant. But the 12 bytes it costs are just spitle on a hot iron. One can go on and have as many bytes of checksum as one wants, and at reasonable cost. The main limitation of dimension-based data is that it is not clear how to get it into the DVI --- except as the rather meager official checksum. Of his scheme Berthold writes: > Non-standard of course, but turned off > by the -K (Knuth) flag that kills all such extensions... Non capisco. Whose flag in which application/package? Cheers Larry Siebenmann 29-Mar-1999 11:49:56-GMT,1692;000000000000 Return-Path: <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Received: from mail-out-0.tiac.net (mail-out-0.tiac.net [199.0.65.247]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id EAA00270 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 04:49:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from posterchild1.tiac.net (posterchild1.tiac.net [199.0.65.72]) by mail-out-0.tiac.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA25258 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 06:49:54 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bkph@ai.mit.edu) Received: from DENALI (p114.block2.tc3.state.MA.tiac.com [206.119.31.115]) by posterchild1.tiac.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA07130 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 11:49:53 GMT Message-Id: <4.1.19990329064812.00aa42e0@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 06:50:12 -0500 To: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Subject: Re: dimension based checksums In-Reply-To: <199903290626.IAA15990@matups.math.u-psud.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:26 AM 99/03/29 +0200, Laurent SIEBENMANN wrote: > > For checking whether TFM files > > are set up for the correct encoding, it is handy to >make > > fontdimen 0 be the checksum so you can interrogate it > > from inside TeX... >This makes sense since fontdimen 0 is NOT A DIMENSION but >rather a pure number that is independant of the "at_size". >(It is officially the tan of the angle of slant of the >font.) Err no. That is fontdimen 1. TeX has no fontdimen 0. It wouldn't make sense to replace an existing dimension. Regards Berthold. Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu 29-Mar-1999 22:17:09-GMT,1108;000000000000 Return-Path: <Laurent.SIEBENMANN@math.u-psud.fr> Received: from matups.math.u-psud.fr (mathups.math.u-psud.fr [194.199.162.4]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id PAA16845 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 15:17:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from (lcs@localhost) by matups.math.u-psud.fr (8.9.1a/jtpda-5.3.1) id AAA23807 for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 00:17:02 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 00:17:02 +0200 (MET DST) From: Laurent.SIEBENMANN@math.u-psud.fr (Laurent SIEBENMANN) Message-Id: <199903292217.AAA23807@matups.math.u-psud.fr> To: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: dimension based checksums Dear Berthold, You caught a typo (read 1 not 0). Now reread the corrected message. In particular, if you agree that: > It wouldn't make sense to replace an existing dimension. (namely pure number fontdimen 1) then the approach I sketched is the only one I know. Larry S PS. Incidentally I was slightly exagerating the simplicity of extracting an pure integer checksum from dimensions, but the idea is OK. 30-Mar-1999 12:02:42-GMT,5981;000000000000 Return-Path: <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id FAA04805 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 05:02:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from MAUI (maui.ai.mit.edu [128.52.37.105]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.3/AI2.10/ai.master.life:2.4) with SMTP id HAA28521; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 07:02:37 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990330064747.0235de70@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 07:03:17 -0500 To: Rebecca and Rowland <rebecca@astrid.u-net.com> From: Berthold Horn <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Subject: Sample inkjet printouts Cc: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu In-Reply-To: <l03130302b31d95491dd2@[195.102.196.150]> References: <4.1.19990323090138.00aca700@mail.ai.mit.edu> <199903230616.GAA19815@rigel.univie.ac.at> <002301be74b2$0a6192c0$dfe030c1@esemetz.fr> <002301be74b2$0a6192c0$dfe030c1@esemetz.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi: At 20:28 1999-03-23 +0000, Rebecca and Rowland wrote: >[snip] >btw Berthold - have you received my test prints yet? Thanks for sending the sample printouts. I must say that at first I thought you might have mislabelled them, since to my eyes they do not prove your point. In fact, to me the PK version of CMR12 looks "choppier," with not as even grey as the Type 1 version of CMR12. Part of the difference may be that the Type 1 version is suppressing overshoots at this size, while the PK version seems to render rounded glyphs larger than the flat-topped glyphs. Since we obviously have some biases here, the only sensible thing I can see to do is to scan the pages in and put them up on a web page somewhere for people to look at. It would be nice then to use e.g. cmr10 at 10pt rather than cmr12 at 12pt, since the latter introduces a confounding difference in round-off that has little to do with "quality" (see below). The obvious difference in x-height rounding in CMR12 at 300dpi obscures any other differences there might be. > Here's some samples of LaTeX output, printed on my HP Deskwriter 520 > by OzTeX 3.0 using the HP DW 6.0.3 LocalTalk driver running on a Mac > Performat 475 using System 7.6.1 > The two sets of prints are rendered by ATM Deluxe 4.0.3 in the case > of the CM/PS founts, and Metafont 2.718 using the Laserwriter mode in > the case of the `straight' CM founts. All prints were made at the > normal 300 dpi printing resolution of the DW 520. > The paper's a bit iffy, so you'll notice a bit of fuzziness here and > there which has nothing to do with either ATM or Metafont. > Things to note: the large sizes are identical no matter what does the > rendering, which implies there's nothing wrong with the founts. or more accurately: "which implies there's nothing wrong with the OUTLINES" > The page of CM/PS at 12pt obviously has an excessive ex height. Let's instead say that the apparent x-height of the rasterized Type 1 fonts is larger than that of the bitmaps derived from the Metafont code. This doesn't mean that one of them is "wrong". It's a difference in how they are rounding off to the discrete grid. Note that 12pt at 300dpi is 59.775.. pixels. So a x-height of 0.430555.. em corresponds to 21.448 pixels. Apparently the alignment zone at the x-height is causing the rasterizer to round this level upward in the Type 1 font while Metafont rounds it downward. CM at 12pt is where this difference shows up most noticably. You don't see this with CM at 10pt. This has been noted before, and I suspect is why you chose that particular size and resolution. I find the Type 1 version more "open" and more readable. It is only "wrong" if you assume that it should round off to the underlying grid in exactly the same way as the Metafont version does, which is not possible given the very different way the grid-fitting happens. > The problem is clear when you look at the test page containing the word > `French' repeated at various sizes: The `Fr' combination runs > together at several sizes of thge CM/PS founts, while there's a clear > gap between the two letters in the Metafont versions. Well first of all, notice the extreme kerning (KPX F r -81.595) which brings the serif on the left of the r right underneath the descending serif on the tip of the F. Then, the bottom of the serif on the F comes down to 458/1000 em, while the top of the r rises to 441/1000 em. So the gap is 17/1000 of an em or 0.204pt at a font size of 12pt. You don't have to make the font size very small before that is a pixel or less. It is not a good idea to design a font with such close approaches, since it dramatically limits what adjustements are allowed in grid-fitting. Apparently Knuth arranged for the grid fitting in the Metafont code to take into account the Fr kern pair. The Type 1 code for F does not have any adjustments related to the Type 1 code for r. As a matter of interest, I do find some collisions in the cover letter itself. In particular the A in LaTeX overprints the stem of the A, and the X touches the E. Same in "OzTeX", and also the acronym "ATM". But with the ragged printing of the ink jet its hard to say much more. Anyway, I don't think we can settle this via words alone. Maybe you can find someone with a scanner and put up the comparison for others to see. Of course, as I said, it would make more sense to show CMR10 at 10pt than CMR12 at 12pt. Regards, Berthold. By the way, I couldn't find information on the Deskwriter 520 on the HP web site, even under "discontinued products" - so I don't know much about its properties. >>For an interesting comparison see: http://www.yandy.com/compare.htm Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph/bkph.html Would you say I have a plethora of piñatas? 1-Apr-1999 0:41:08-GMT,7671;000000000000 Return-Path: <rebecca@astrid.u-net.com> Received: from mserv1b.u-net.net (mserv1b.u-net.net [195.102.240.137]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id RAA27804 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 17:41:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from [195.102.197.94] (helo=[62.136.34.243]) by mserv1b.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #61) id 10SVXM-0006dj-00; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 01:40:48 +0100 X-Sender: rebecca-astrid@mail.u-net.com Message-Id: <l03130303b328627f8846@[195.102.198.160]> In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990330064747.0235de70@mail.ai.mit.edu> References: <l03130302b31d95491dd2@[195.102.196.150]> <4.1.19990323090138.00aca700@mail.ai.mit.edu> <199903230616.GAA19815@rigel.univie.ac.at> <002301be74b2$0a6192c0$dfe030c1@esemetz.fr> <002301be74b2$0a6192c0$dfe030c1@esemetz.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 00:53:19 +0100 To: Berthold Horn <bkph@ai.mit.edu> From: Rebecca and Rowland <rebecca@astrid.u-net.com> Subject: Re: Sample inkjet printouts Cc: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu At 1:03 pm +0100 30/3/99, Berthold Horn wrote: >Hi: > >At 20:28 1999-03-23 +0000, Rebecca and Rowland wrote: > >>[snip] > >>btw Berthold - have you received my test prints yet? > > Thanks for sending the sample printouts. I must say that at first I > thought you might have mislabelled them, since to my eyes they do not > prove your point. In fact, to me the PK version of CMR12 looks "choppier," > with not as even grey as the Type 1 version of CMR12. It's easier to read to my eye, and looks more like the definitive versions printed in Knuth's book. You're quite right about the evenness of the grey, but what's that got to do with anything? I'm comparing the printouts not with a subjective aesthetic standard, but with a definitive printed standard in Knuth's books. > Part of the > difference may be that the Type 1 version is suppressing overshoots at > this size, while the PK version seems to render rounded glyphs larger > than the flat-topped glyphs. Hmm... my main point is that the Metafont version looks more like the Computer Modern founts as printed in Knuth's books than the PS Type 1 version. One can argue aesthetics until the cows come home and get nowhere, so I've ignore the aesthetic argument entirely: compare the printouts with the definitive Computer Modern Roman in Knuth's books. You should see what I mean immediately. > Since we obviously have some biases here, the only sensible thing I > can see to do is to scan the pages in and put them up on a web page > somewhere for people to look at. It would be nice then to use e.g. > cmr10 at 10pt rather than cmr12 at 12pt, since the latter introduces > a confounding difference in round-off that has little to do with > "quality" (see below). The obvious difference in x-height rounding > in CMR12 at 300dpi obscures any other differences there might be. But this is *exactly* the sort of quality point I've been talking about! Of *course* you'd expect ATM and Metafont to produce similar results in limited cases. When you're working at medium to low resolution, such rounding problems are inevitable, and are a very serious quality issue. If ATM is such a good rendering engine, it ought to be able to handle all the borderline cases at lower resolutions excellently. Since it can't, it's not as good as some people claim. [snip] >> Things to note: the large sizes are identical no matter what does the >> rendering, which implies there's nothing wrong with the founts. > > or more accurately: "which implies there's nothing wrong with the OUTLINES" Hmm... Okay. >> The page of CM/PS at 12pt obviously has an excessive ex height. > > Let's instead say that the apparent x-height of the rasterized Type 1 > fonts is larger than that of the bitmaps derived from the Metafont > code. This doesn't mean that one of them is "wrong". It's a difference > in how they are rounding off to the discrete grid. > > Note that 12pt at 300dpi is 59.775.. pixels. So a x-height of > 0.430555.. em corresponds to 21.448 pixels. Apparently the alignment > zone at the x-height is causing the rasterizer to round this level > upward in the Type 1 font while Metafont rounds it downward. CM at > 12pt is where this difference shows up most noticably. You don't see > this with CM at 10pt. This has been noted before, and I suspect is >why you chose that particular size and resolution. I chose that particular size (not resolution - that's fixed) because it shows up more problems than other sizes on my printer. Of *course* I showed you the worst case. >I find the Type 1 version more "open" and more readable. It is only >"wrong" if you assume that it should round off to the underlying grid >in exactly the same way as the Metafont version does, which is not >possible given the very different way the grid-fitting happens. Your aesthetic judgement isn't relevant: what matters is how well the two printed versions match the definitive printed versions of the Computer Modern founts in Knuth's books. Do that comparions. What do you think? >> The problem is clear when you look at the test page containing the word >> `French' repeated at various sizes: The `Fr' combination runs >> together at several sizes of thge CM/PS founts, while there's a clear >> gap between the two letters in the Metafont versions. > > Well first of all, notice the extreme kerning (KPX F r -81.595) which > brings the serif on the left of the r right underneath the descending > serif on the tip of the F. Then, the bottom of the serif on the F > comes down to 458/1000 em, while the top of the r rises to 441/1000 em. > So the gap is 17/1000 of an em or 0.204pt at a font size of 12pt. > You don't have to make the font size very small before that is a pixel > or less. It is not a good idea to design a font with such close > approaches, since it dramatically limits what adjustements are allowed > in grid-fitting. Erm... Surely that means it's only a bad idea if you don't pay enough attention to detail when writing the code to produce the fount? > Apparently Knuth arranged for the grid fitting in > the Metafont code to take into account the Fr kern pair. The Type 1 >code for F does not have any adjustments related to the Type 1 code >for r. In other words, it's a good idea to do what Knuth did if you want a fount like that and can design the code to deal with the matter. > As a matter of interest, I do find some collisions in the cover letter >itself. > In particular the A in LaTeX overprints the stem of the A, and the X > touches the E. Yes, that's right. I did flag this particular problem: you didn't have to look for it yourself, did you? That problem is mainly caused by the incredibly stupid code to print the LaTeX logo. > Same in "OzTeX", and also the acronym "ATM". > But with the ragged printing of the ink jet its hard to say much more. You've spotted yet more problems with a PS Type 1 fount rendered by ATM, haven't you? That was Monotype Joanna. >Anyway, I don't think we can settle this via words alone. Maybe you can >find someone with a scanner and put up the comparison for others to see. >Of course, as I said, it would make more sense to show CMR10 at 10pt >than CMR12 at 12pt. Well, no, it makes more sense to show cmr12 at 12pt, because that demonstrates the problems better. >By the way, I couldn't find information on the Deskwriter 520 on the >HP web site, even under "discontinued products" - so I don't know >much about its properties. 300dpi monochrome inkjet, able to print 600dpi along one axis; but OzTeX doesn't allow you to use a non-square resolution. Rowland. 1-Apr-1999 12:50:55-GMT,6953;000000000000 Return-Path: <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id FAA13208 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 05:50:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from MAUI (p219.block1.tc4.state.MA.tiac.com [206.119.45.220]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.3/AI2.10/ai.master.life:2.4) with ESMTP id HAA23454; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 07:50:48 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.2.0.32.19990401073446.00b0db40@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.32 (Beta) Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 07:51:20 -0500 To: Rebecca and Rowland <rebecca@astrid.u-net.com> From: Berthold Horn <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Subject: Re: Sample inkjet printouts Cc: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu In-Reply-To: <l03130303b328627f8846@[195.102.198.160]> References: <4.1.19990330064747.0235de70@mail.ai.mit.edu> <l03130302b31d95491dd2@[195.102.196.150]> <4.1.19990323090138.00aca700@mail.ai.mit.edu> <199903230616.GAA19815@rigel.univie.ac.at> <002301be74b2$0a6192c0$dfe030c1@esemetz.fr> <002301be74b2$0a6192c0$dfe030c1@esemetz.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 00:53 1999-04-01 +0100, Rebecca and Rowland wrote: >It's easier to read to my eye, and looks more like the definitive versions >printed in Knuth's book. You're quite right about the evenness of the >grey, but what's that got to do with anything? I'm comparing the printouts >not with a subjective aesthetic standard, but with a definitive printed >standard in Knuth's books. Well, since Knuth use the MetaFont version it is a priori clear which one will pass your test :-). >> It would be nice then to use e.g. >> cmr10 at 10pt rather than cmr12 at 12pt, since the latter introduces >> a confounding difference in round-off that has little to do with >> "quality" (see below). The obvious difference in x-height rounding >> in CMR12 at 300dpi obscures any other differences there might be. > >But this is *exactly* the sort of quality point I've been talking about! But who is to say which is a better representation of the underlying continuous glyph shape? The one rounds down, the other rounds up. The one looks compact and squashed compared to the same font at other pix-per-em, while the other looks open and expanded compared to the same font at other pix-per-em. >Of *course* you'd expect ATM and Metafont to produce similar results in >limited cases. When you're working at medium to low resolution, such >rounding problems are inevitable, and are a very serious quality issue. If >ATM is such a good rendering engine, it ought to be able to handle all the >borderline cases at lower resolutions excellently. Since it can't, it's >not as good as some people claim. How do you conclude it can't? It is more readable, and has more even grey. One can now argue about which discrete approximation is better. >> Note that 12pt at 300dpi is 59.775.. pixels. So a x-height of >> 0.430555.. em corresponds to 21.448 pixels. Apparently the alignment >> zone at the x-height is causing the rasterizer to round this level >> upward in the Type 1 font while Metafont rounds it downward. CM at >> 12pt is where this difference shows up most noticably. You don't see >> this with CM at 10pt. This has been noted before, and I suspect is >>why you chose that particular size and resolution. > >I chose that particular size (not resolution - that's fixed) because it >shows up more problems than other sizes on my printer. Of *course* I >showed you the worst case. :-) It is interesting that even in this worst case, I don't see your point other than that ATM happens to round up the x-height and Metafont rounds it down (one pixel difference on your 300 dpi device). >>I find the Type 1 version more "open" and more readable. It is only >>"wrong" if you assume that it should round off to the underlying grid >>in exactly the same way as the Metafont version does, which is not >>possible given the very different way the grid-fitting happens. > >Your aesthetic judgement isn't relevant: what matters is how well the two >printed versions match the definitive printed versions of the Computer >Modern founts in Knuth's books. Do that comparions. What do you think? Somehow you are stacking the deck. If you are saying is the Metafont version on your ink jet closer to the the Metafont version in Knuth's book than the Type 1 version on your ink jet is, then we know what answer to expect. >> So the gap is 17/1000 of an em or 0.204pt at a font size of 12pt. >> You don't have to make the font size very small before that is a pixel >> or less. It is not a good idea to design a font with such close >> approaches, since it dramatically limits what adjustements are allowed >> in grid-fitting. > >Erm... Surely that means it's only a bad idea if you don't pay enough >attention to detail when writing the code to produce the fount? Well, I tend to disagree. It is better to write the font code so that there remains enough freedom at small sizes to shift things by one pixel. The extremely close approach of the F to the r can only be safe if their are strong constraints on the alignment zones which reduce the ability of the rasterizer to make adjustments needed for good rendering at low resolution. >> Same in "OzTeX", and also the acronym "ATM". >> But with the ragged printing of the ink jet its hard to say much more. > >You've spotted yet more problems with a PS Type 1 fount rendered by ATM, >haven't you? That was Monotype Joanna. I didn't know what font it was. In that case your code for generating these special acronyms is too font specific (and not tuned for Joanna). >>Anyway, I don't think we can settle this via words alone. Maybe you can >>find someone with a scanner and put up the comparison for others to see. >>Of course, as I said, it would make more sense to show CMR10 at 10pt >>than CMR12 at 12pt. > >Well, no, it makes more sense to show cmr12 at 12pt, because that >demonstrates the problems better. You would say that :-) I think it makes more sense to use any of a number of other combinations because 12pt on a 300 dpi printer is a special borderline case for the CM fonts. >>By the way, I couldn't find information on the Deskwriter 520 on the >>HP web site, even under "discontinued products" - so I don't know >>much about its properties. > >300dpi monochrome inkjet, able to print 600dpi along one axis; but OzTeX >doesn't allow you to use a non-square resolution. Why does OzTeX care? With ATM you can print to any resolution isotropic, or not. Which seems like another advantage, since quite a few printers these days have twice the resolution along the horizontal axes than the vertical... Regards, Berthold. Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph/bkph.html Would you say I have a plethora of piñatas? 1-Apr-1999 22:19:41-GMT,11989;000000000000 Return-Path: <rebecca@astrid.u-net.com> Received: from mserv1a.u-net.net (mserv1a.u-net.net [195.102.240.34]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id PAA27882 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 15:19:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from [195.102.197.205] (helo=[195.102.197.205]) by mserv1a.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #61) id 10SpoM-0006lz-00; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 23:19:42 +0100 X-Sender: rebecca-astrid@mail.u-net.com Message-Id: <l03130302b329334435d1@[195.102.198.160]> In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.32.19990401073446.00b0db40@mail.ai.mit.edu> References: <l03130303b328627f8846@[195.102.198.160]> <4.1.19990330064747.0235de70@mail.ai.mit.edu> <l03130302b31d95491dd2@[195.102.196.150]> <4.1.19990323090138.00aca700@mail.ai.mit.edu> <199903230616.GAA19815@rigel.univie.ac.at> <002301be74b2$0a6192c0$dfe030c1@esemetz.fr> <002301be74b2$0a6192c0$dfe030c1@esemetz.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 15:54:53 +0100 To: Berthold Horn <bkph@ai.mit.edu> From: Rebecca and Rowland <rebecca@astrid.u-net.com> Subject: Re: Sample inkjet printouts Cc: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu At 1:51 pm +0100 1/4/99, Berthold Horn wrote: >At 00:53 1999-04-01 +0100, Rebecca and Rowland wrote: > >>It's easier to read to my eye, and looks more like the definitive versions >>printed in Knuth's book. You're quite right about the evenness of the >>grey, but what's that got to do with anything? I'm comparing the printouts >>not with a subjective aesthetic standard, but with a definitive printed >>standard in Knuth's books. > >Well, since Knuth use the MetaFont version it is a priori clear which one >will pass your test :-). Not at all: any half-decent rendering engine will produce identical results at high resolution, as my test print outs demonstrated: there is no noticable difference between the ATM and Metafont rendered versions in large sizes, is there? The *real* test of a rendering engine comes when you render at low resolution: Metafont does a better job in this case than ATM, because Metafont's results at low resolution are closer to the results you get with both Metafont and ATM at high resolution. I repeat: Metafont and ATM produce virtually identical results at high resolution. The designer's intention is what matters here: ATM and Metafont meet the definitive appearance of the founts and shown in Knuth's books when printing at high resolution. ATM departs from this appearance at low resolution. Metafont doesn't. ATM is not a good rendering engine. >>> It would be nice then to use e.g. >>> cmr10 at 10pt rather than cmr12 at 12pt, since the latter introduces >>> a confounding difference in round-off that has little to do with >>> "quality" (see below). The obvious difference in x-height rounding >>> in CMR12 at 300dpi obscures any other differences there might be. >> >>But this is *exactly* the sort of quality point I've been talking about! > >But who is to say which is a better representation of the underlying >continuous glyph shape? The one rounds down, the other rounds up. >The one looks compact and squashed compared to the same font at other >pix-per-em, while the other looks open and expanded compared to the >same font at other pix-per-em. But the Metafont version I sent you *doesn't* look as you describe to my eyes: to my eyes, the Metafont version (12pt at 12pt at 300dpi) looks very similar to the version printed in Knuth's books. The ATM rendered version looks vertically stretched to my eyes - certainly no more open, just stretched. That is however *irrelevant*: what matters is how close the low-res version matches the high-res version in general appearance, and the ATM rendered version (12pt at 12pt at 300dpi) looks very, very different to the high res version. You might prefer it, but that's an aesthetic judgement and not relevant to this matter: all that matters is how close to the designer's intention the printed result is. >>Of *course* you'd expect ATM and Metafont to produce similar results in >>limited cases. When you're working at medium to low resolution, such >>rounding problems are inevitable, and are a very serious quality issue. If >>ATM is such a good rendering engine, it ought to be able to handle all the >>borderline cases at lower resolutions excellently. Since it can't, it's >>not as good as some people claim. > >How do you conclude it can't? It is more readable, and has more even >grey. One can now argue about which discrete approximation is better. *YOU* say that it's more readable. I disagree. A more even grey? Yes, that's right. So what? This is utterly irrelevant: all that matters is how close the printed result is to the fount designer's intention. You can see what the fount designer intended by looking at any of Knuth's books. The 12pt at 12pt at 300dpi ATM rendered versions looks like a completely different fount to me. So while you might claim that it's `higher quality', it doesn't matter: Knuth wants the fount to look very different to the result you get when rendering the CM/PS CMR12 at 120pt and 300dpi. >>> Note that 12pt at 300dpi is 59.775.. pixels. So a x-height of >>> 0.430555.. em corresponds to 21.448 pixels. Apparently the alignment >>> zone at the x-height is causing the rasterizer to round this level >>> upward in the Type 1 font while Metafont rounds it downward. CM at >>> 12pt is where this difference shows up most noticably. You don't see >>> this with CM at 10pt. This has been noted before, and I suspect is >>>why you chose that particular size and resolution. >> >>I chose that particular size (not resolution - that's fixed) because it >>shows up more problems than other sizes on my printer. Of *course* I >>showed you the worst case. > >:-) It is interesting that even in this worst case, I don't see your >point other >than that ATM happens to round up the x-height and Metafont rounds it down >(one pixel difference on your 300 dpi device). <sigh> The point is that ATM produces something that doesn't look the way Knuth wanted it to look. >>>I find the Type 1 version more "open" and more readable. It is only >>>"wrong" if you assume that it should round off to the underlying grid >>>in exactly the same way as the Metafont version does, which is not >>>possible given the very different way the grid-fitting happens. >> >>Your aesthetic judgement isn't relevant: what matters is how well the two >>printed versions match the definitive printed versions of the Computer >>Modern founts in Knuth's books. Do that comparions. What do you think? > >Somehow you are stacking the deck. If you are saying is the Metafont >version on your ink jet closer to the the Metafont version in Knuth's book >than the Type 1 version on your ink jet is, then we know what answer to >expect. (does this mean you *know* that ATM's a load of rubbish at rendering?) Argh! I'm not stacking the deck! What matters is what the fount designed wanted: the fount designer wanted his fount to have a particular appearance, right? The definitive look of the Computer Modern founts, as desired by the fount designer, appears in Knuth's books. It doesn't matter what rendering engine was used: that is what the designer wanted. Now then... Knuth fiddled around with the designs so that he got what he wanted using Metafont at various resolutions. The definitive appearance: what he *really* wanted - *that* appears in his books. As my test prints show, both ATM rendered CM/PS founts and Metafont rendered original founts look the same at high resolution. There is no problem there. The problem is that at low resolution, the ATM rendered CM/PS version (especially 12pt at 12pt and 300dpi) looks very different to what the designer intended. Your aesthetic judgement has nothing whatever to do with it: all that matters is how close the rendering engine approximates what the designer wanted. If the CM/PS founts rendered by ATM don't look the way Knuth wanted them to do, then there's a problem with the quality of the CM/PS founts and/or ATM. Deck stacking does not come into it: the designer wanted *that* appearance, clearly printed in Knuth's books. The fact that he used that particular rendering engine doesn't matter: this is the way he wanted the fount to appear. Forget *your* aesthic judgement, forget what *you* want the fount to look like, forget what *you* think is the right way for a fount to look, to be designed, and to be rendered, forget about Metafont and ATM. What matters is the conformance to *that* appearance on the page. Nothing but that: the appearance of the glyphs on the page. Ink on paper: ink on paper as Knuth wanted it. I repeat: it is the appearance on the page that matters. Knuth designed the founts to have a particular appearance, and what he wanted appears in his books. If a particular rendition of the CM founts departs from that appearance, *no matter what you might think about the appearance*, then that particular rendition is *wrong*. >>> So the gap is 17/1000 of an em or 0.204pt at a font size of 12pt. >>> You don't have to make the font size very small before that is a pixel >>> or less. It is not a good idea to design a font with such close >>> approaches, since it dramatically limits what adjustements are allowed >>> in grid-fitting. >> >>Erm... Surely that means it's only a bad idea if you don't pay enough >>attention to detail when writing the code to produce the fount? > >Well, I tend to disagree. It is better to write the font code so that there >remains enough freedom at small sizes to shift things by one pixel. >The extremely close approach of the F to the r can only be safe if >their are strong constraints on the alignment zones which reduce the >ability of the rasterizer to make adjustments needed for good rendering >at low resolution. Yes, but... As I've tried to demonstrate, ATM makes a rotten job (departs from the designer's intention quite radically) when rendering CMR12 at 12pt and 300dpi, but Metafont does the job very well (conforms closely to the designer's intention). So I'd say that your argument holds only for a poor rasteriser. >>> Same in "OzTeX", and also the acronym "ATM". >>> But with the ragged printing of the ink jet its hard to say much more. >> >>You've spotted yet more problems with a PS Type 1 fount rendered by ATM, >>haven't you? That was Monotype Joanna. > >I didn't know what font it was. In that case your code for generating >these special acronyms is too font specific (and not tuned for Joanna). My code? It's not *my* code. I used the standard \LaTeX and \TeX commands. I didn't use any code to generate `ATM'. >>>Anyway, I don't think we can settle this via words alone. Maybe you can >>>find someone with a scanner and put up the comparison for others to see. >>>Of course, as I said, it would make more sense to show CMR10 at 10pt >>>than CMR12 at 12pt. >> >>Well, no, it makes more sense to show cmr12 at 12pt, because that >>demonstrates the problems better. > >You would say that :-) I think it makes more sense to use any of a >number of other combinations because 12pt on a 300 dpi printer >is a special borderline case for the CM fonts. Erm... Precisely: that's where you can see the problems most clearly. >>>By the way, I couldn't find information on the Deskwriter 520 on the > >>>HP web site, even under "discontinued products" - so I don't know >>>much about its properties. >> >>300dpi monochrome inkjet, able to print 600dpi along one axis; but OzTeX >>doesn't allow you to use a non-square resolution. > >Why does OzTeX care? With ATM you can print to any resolution isotropic, >or not. Which seems like another advantage, since quite a few printers >these days have twice the resolution along the horizontal axes than the >vertical... I have no idea why OzTeX cares. Best ask the author, not me. As you know as well as I do, Metafont can print to any resolution as well. Rowland. 5-Apr-1999 21:27:31-GMT,2243;000000000000 Return-Path: <reinhard@kammer.uni-hannover.de> Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id PAA20849 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:27:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kammer.uni-hannover.de (IDENT:root@zaphod.kammer.uni-hannover.de [130.75.139.53]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA16878 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 17:27:23 -0400 Received: from milliways.kammer.uni-hannover.de.kammer.uni-hannover.de (reinhard@milliways.kammer.uni-hannover.de [130.75.139.56]) by kammer.uni-hannover.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA01334; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 23:11:03 +0200 Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 23:11:03 +0200 Message-Id: <199904052111.XAA01334@kammer.uni-hannover.de> From: Reinhard Kotucha <reinhard@kammer.uni-hannover.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: tex-fonts@tug.org Cc: te@informatik.uni-hannover.de Subject: typo in bitstrea.map X-Mailer: VM 6.37 under Emacs 20.2.1 Hi, there is a typo in fontnames/bitstrea.map which just caused one of my scripts to crash. --- bitstrea.map-- Thu Apr 1 18:43:42 1999 +++ bitstrea.map Mon Apr 5 23:14:12 1999 @@ -667,7 +667,7 @@ bngd8a NewsGothicBT-Demi BT 0949 newsgotd bngdi8a NewsGothicBT-DemiItalic BT 0950 newsgtdi b_____ CataneoBT-Light BT 0951 catanltn -b_____ CataneoBT-Reguar BT 0952 cataneon +b_____ CataneoBT-Regular BT 0952 cataneon b_____ CataneoBT-Bold BT 0953 catanbon blfr8a LifeBT-Roman BT 0954 lifen blfri8a LifeBT-Italic BT 0955 lifei Regards, Reinhard -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reinhard Kotucha Phone: +49-511-751355 Berggartenstr. 9 D-30419 Hannover mailto:reinhard@kammer.uni-hannover.de ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Microsoft isn't the answer. Microsoft is the question, and the answer is NO. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6-Apr-1999 7:04:51-GMT,1159;000000000000 Return-Path: <te@informatik.uni-hannover.de> Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id BAA04161 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 01:04:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from regulus.informatik.uni-hannover.de (te@regulus.informatik.uni-hannover.de [130.75.26.7]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA17795 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 03:04:47 -0400 Received: (from te@localhost) by regulus.informatik.uni-hannover.de (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id JAA17306; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 09:04:41 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 09:04:41 +0200 (MET DST) From: Thomas Esser <te@informatik.uni-hannover.de> Message-Id: <199904060704.JAA17306@regulus.informatik.uni-hannover.de> To: reinhard@kammer.uni-hannover.de, tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: Re: typo in bitstrea.map > there is a typo in fontnames/bitstrea.map which just caused one of my > scripts to crash. Thanks Reinhard. I just have updated the master copy on tug.org. A question to Karl: I have adjusted the "last change date", of course. Should the version number in the file be changed after every update, too? Thomas 9-Apr-1999 19:59:29-GMT,1876;000000000000 Return-Path: <reinhard@kammer.uni-hannover.de> Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id NAA02779 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 13:59:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kammer.uni-hannover.de (IDENT:root@zaphod.kammer.uni-hannover.de [130.75.139.53]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA11578 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 15:59:22 -0400 Received: from milliways.kammer.uni-hannover.de.kammer.uni-hannover.de (reinhard@milliways.kammer.uni-hannover.de [130.75.139.56]) by kammer.uni-hannover.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA02826 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 21:59:11 +0200 Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 21:59:11 +0200 Message-Id: <199904091959.VAA02826@kammer.uni-hannover.de> From: Reinhard Kotucha <reinhard@kammer.uni-hannover.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: missing entry in typeface.map X-Mailer: VM 6.37 under Emacs 20.2.1 Hi Karl, the following fonts are mentioned in bitstrea.map, but not in typeface.map: bi3r8a ImperialBT-Roman BT 0352 imperln bi3ri8a ImperialBT-Italic BT 0353 imperli bi3b8a ImperialBT-Bold BT 0354 imperlb What do you think about adding the following line? i3 imperial Imperial Regards, Reinhard -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reinhard Kotucha Phone: +49-511-751355 Berggartenstr. 9 D-30419 Hannover mailto:reinhard@kammer.uni-hannover.de ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Microsoft isn't the answer. Microsoft is the question, and the answer is NO. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12-Apr-1999 19:39:41-GMT,1049;000000000000 Return-Path: <karl@cs.umb.edu> Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id NAA28909 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:39:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cs.umb.edu (cs.umb.edu [158.121.104.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA21443 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:39:32 -0400 Received: from hub.cs.umb.edu (hub.cs.umb.edu [158.121.104.161]) by cs.umb.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA07294; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:39:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Karl Berry <karl@cs.umb.edu> Received: (from karl@localhost) by hub.cs.umb.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA19469; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:39:14 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:39:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199904121939.PAA19469@hub.cs.umb.edu> To: reinhard@kammer.uni-hannover.de Cc: tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: Re: missing entry in typeface.map What do you think about adding the following line? i3 imperial Imperial Absolutely. I made the change. Thanks for finding the discrepancy. 17-Apr-1999 22:49:20-GMT,3711;000000000000 Return-Path: <yharalambous@nordmail.nordnet.fr> Received: from smtp.nordnet.fr (root@smtp.nordnet.fr [194.206.126.239]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id QAA15685 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 16:49:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 195.146.225.78 (gate6-78.nordnet.fr [195.146.225.78]) by smtp.nordnet.fr (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id AAA15859 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 00:49:15 +0200 Message-Id: <199904172249.AAA15859@smtp.nordnet.fr> Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 00:53:38 +0200 From: Yannis Haralambous <yannis@fluxus-virus.com> Subject: Problem with type 42 font To: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; Charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mailsmith 1.1.3 (Bluto) I don't know if anyone on this list is sufficiently familiar with Type 42 fonts: I wanted to try ttf2ps, and took the most common font: times.ttf (the WGL4 version as it is included in Win95, WinNT or as it can be fetched from www.microsoft.com/typography) When I convert it to times.pfa and try to use it in a file, I get the following error message in GhostScript 5.50 (both Linux and Mac): Aladdin Ghostscript 5.50 (1998-9-16) Copyright (C) 1998 Aladdin Enterprises, Menlo Park, CA. All rights reserved. This software comes with NO WARRANTY: see the file PUBLIC for details. GS>{ [72.0 72.0] [612.0 792.0] 8 4 1 (temp0000.ps) false .newwindow (Klein:Desktop Folder:temp0000.ps) run } .runjob Error: /rangecheck in --.type42execchar-- Operand stack: --dict:13/14(L)-- 103 g 74 Execution stack: %interp_exit .runexec2 --nostringval-- --nostringval-- --nostringval-- 2 %stopped_push --nostringval-- 0 3 %oparray_pop --nostringval-- %loop_continue 1 3 %oparray_pop --nostringval-- --nostringval-- false 1 %stopped_push --nostringval-- --nostringval-- false 1 %stopped_push 1 3 %oparray_pop 1 3 %oparray_pop .runexec2 --nostringval-- --nostringval-- --nostringval-- 2 %stopped_push --nostringval-- 1 4 %oparray_pop %finish_show 3 4 0 0 --nostringval-- (gs_show_enum) %op_show_continue --nostringval-- --nostringval-- Dictionary stack: --dict:858/941(G)-- --dict:0/20(G)-- --dict:50/200(L)-- --dict:100/300(L)-- Current allocation mode is local Current file position is 613261 The same file is converted perfectly into PDF by Distiller. I get this error message only with times.ttf: other styles (times(i|bd|bi).ttf) and other fonts (arial, verdana, georgia, etc.) all display correctly under GhostScript. have you any idea where this error comes from? Is the problem in GhosScript or in the font or in ttf2ps?? Thanks in advance for any hint Cheers Yannis +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Yannis Haralambous, Ph.D. yannis@fluxus-virus.com | | http://www.fluxus-virus.com/yannis | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | 187, rue Nationale fax : +33 (0)3.20.40.28.64 | | 59800 Lille, France tél. : +33 (0)6.07.98.16.26 | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Visit the Omega home page!! http://www.ens.fr/omega | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ ...pour distinguer l'extérieur d'un aquarium, mieux vaut n'être pas poisson ...the ball I threw while playing in the park has never reached the ground 18-Apr-1999 2:28:19-GMT,5600;000000000000 Return-Path: <tjk@ams.org> Received: from sun06.ams.org (sun06.ams.org [130.44.1.6]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id UAA19685 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 20:28:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by sun06.ams.org (PMDF V5.1-10 #27147) id <0FAD00M015J3KQ@sun06.ams.org> for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 22:28:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sun06.ams.org by sun06.ams.org (PMDF V5.1-10 #27147) with ESMTP id <0FAD00LB45J3E3@sun06.ams.org> for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 22:28:15 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 22:28:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Tom Kacvinsky <tjk@ams.org> Subject: Re: Problem with type 42 font In-reply-to: <199904172249.AAA15859@smtp.nordnet.fr> To: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Message-id: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9904172200370.28736-100000@sun06.ams.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Hi, I made a Type42 font of the MS's Times New Roman using ttftot42(*), and I had the same problems. I used MS's ttfdump to get the tables, and the 'vhea' table is missing. According to the Type 42 specification (*), the 'vhea' table is required by the Type42 rasterizer. But I also had problems with Chicago (from Apple) (ttftot42 said that this was in an invalid TrueType format), and Verdana (which you didn't seem to have a problem with). However, If I use the MacOS version of the font and Apple's LaserWriter driver (which will write out Type 42 fonts). Times New Roman caused *no* problems with Distiller, but it did cause problems with GhostScript. In fact, all of the type 42 fonts put out by ttftot42 have problems with both gs and Distiller, whereas LaserWriter Type 42 fonts will Distill fine but choke gs. I suspect that gs doesn't have as robust a Type 42 rasterizer as a CPSI, and that ttftot42 isn't writing compliant Type 42 fonts. I had problems with ttf2ps. I couldn't get it to write out a PS file from a TrueType font. What version are you using? Where did you get it? The copy I am using I found at http://www.leo.org/pub/comp/usenet/comp.sources.postscript/ttf2ps/ttf2ps.tar.gz/. Oh yeah, there are some gotchas listed in the Type 42 spec about the format of the /sfnt array. It has to do with the alignment of TT tables and glyph descriptions. I am not sure if ttftot42 is "compliant" in this case, as I haven't groked the code just yet. References: * http://ftp.giga.or.at/pub/nih/ttftot42 ** http://partners.adobe.com/supportservice/devrelations/PDFS/TN/5012.Type42_Spec.pdf) Regards, Tom > > I don't know if anyone on this list is sufficiently familiar with Type 42 fonts: > > I wanted to try ttf2ps, and took the most common font: times.ttf (the WGL4 version > as it is included in Win95, WinNT or as it can be fetched from www.microsoft.com/typography) > When I convert it to times.pfa and try to use it in a file, I get the following > error message in GhostScript 5.50 (both Linux and Mac): > > Aladdin Ghostscript 5.50 (1998-9-16) > Copyright (C) 1998 Aladdin Enterprises, Menlo Park, CA. All rights reserved. > This software comes with NO WARRANTY: see the file PUBLIC for details. > GS>{ [72.0 72.0] [612.0 792.0] 8 4 1 (temp0000.ps) false .newwindow (Klein:Desktop Folder:temp0000.ps) run } .runjob > Error: /rangecheck in --.type42execchar-- > Operand stack: > --dict:13/14(L)-- 103 g 74 > Execution stack: > %interp_exit .runexec2 --nostringval-- --nostringval-- --nostringval-- 2 %stopped_push --nostringval-- 0 3 %oparray_pop --nostringval-- %loop_continue 1 3 %oparray_pop --nostringval-- --nostringval-- false 1 %stopped_push --nostringval-- --nostringval-- false 1 %stopped_push 1 3 %oparray_pop 1 3 %oparray_pop .runexec2 --nostringval-- --nostringval-- --nostringval-- 2 %stopped_push --nostringval-- 1 4 %oparray_pop %finish_show 3 4 0 0 --nostringval-- (gs_show_enum) %op_show_continue --nostringval-- --nostringval-- > Dictionary stack: > --dict:858/941(G)-- --dict:0/20(G)-- --dict:50/200(L)-- --dict:100/300(L)-- > Current allocation mode is local > Current file position is 613261 > > The same file is converted perfectly into PDF by Distiller. I get this error message only > with times.ttf: other styles (times(i|bd|bi).ttf) and other fonts (arial, verdana, georgia, etc.) > all display correctly under GhostScript. > > have you any idea where this error comes from? Is the problem in GhosScript or in the font > or in ttf2ps?? > > Thanks in advance for any hint > > Cheers > > Yannis > +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ > | Yannis Haralambous, Ph.D. yannis@fluxus-virus.com | > | http://www.fluxus-virus.com/yannis | > +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ > | 187, rue Nationale fax : +33 (0)3.20.40.28.64 | > | 59800 Lille, France tél. : +33 (0)6.07.98.16.26 | > +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ > | Visit the Omega home page!! http://www.ens.fr/omega | > +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ > ...pour distinguer l'extérieur d'un aquarium, > mieux vaut n'être pas poisson > > ...the ball I threw while playing in the park > has never reached the ground > > 18-Apr-1999 6:47:39-GMT,2010;000000000000 Return-Path: <christophe.labouisse@dial.oleane.com> Received: from gabuzo.meunet (IDENT:root@d224.paris-204.cybercable.fr [212.198.204.224]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id AAA24752 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 00:47:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from moi@localhost) by gabuzo.meunet (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Christophe Labouisse - 10/01/99) id IAA04672; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 08:44:04 +0200 To: Yannis Haralambous <yannis@fluxus-virus.com> Cc: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: Problem with type 42 font References: <199904172249.AAA15859@smtp.nordnet.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Multipart_Sun_Apr_18_08:44:03_1999-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Christophe Labouisse <christophe.labouisse@dial.oleane.com> Date: 18 Apr 1999 08:44:03 +0200 In-Reply-To: Yannis Haralambous's message of "Sun, 18 Apr 1999 00:53:38 +0200" Message-ID: <m33e1yqvgs.fsf@gabuzo.meunet> Lines: 25 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" --Multipart_Sun_Apr_18_08:44:03_1999-1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Yannis Haralambous <yannis@fluxus-virus.com> writes: > I wanted to try ttf2ps, and took the most common font: times.ttf (the WGL4 version > as it is included in Win95, WinNT or as it can be fetched from www.microsoft.com/typography) > have you any idea where this error comes from? Is the problem in GhosScript or in the font > or in ttf2ps?? I have neither ttf2ps or ttfto42 available but I made a test with a dirty tool of mine to convert the WG4L version of Times (from the microsoft site) to a type42 font and then tried DoFont with it. It works flawlessly for me. --Multipart_Sun_Apr_18_08:44:03_1999-1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Christophe Labouisse : Cinéma, typographie, Unix christophe.labouisse@dial.oleane.com http://www.multimania.com/gabuzo/ Le cinéma en Lumière : http://www.lumiere.org/ --Multipart_Sun_Apr_18_08:44:03_1999-1-- 18-Apr-1999 8:16:53-GMT,2745;000000000000 Return-Path: <yharalambous@nordmail.nordnet.fr> Received: from smtp.nordnet.fr (root@smtp.nordnet.fr [194.206.126.239]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id CAA26342 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 02:16:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 195.146.225.75 (gate6-75.nordnet.fr [195.146.225.75]) by smtp.nordnet.fr (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA18294; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 10:16:15 +0200 Message-Id: <199904180816.KAA18294@smtp.nordnet.fr> Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 10:20:42 +0200 From: Yannis Haralambous <yannis@fluxus-virus.com> Subject: Re: Problem with type 42 font To: Tom Kacvinsky <tjk@ams.org> cc: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu X-Priority: 3 In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9904172200370.28736-100000@sun06.ams.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; Charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mailsmith 1.1.3 (Bluto) I have just discovered ttf2pf, the Polish TTF->Type 42 converter, which works FINE. You can get it from: ftp://ftp.gust.org.pl/TeX/GUST/contrib/BachoTeX98/ttf2pf It uses gs, and to use it under Unix you first have to do a small change: in file ttf2pf.ps: s/GS_TTF.PS/gs_ttf.ps/g; s/PF2AFM.PS/pf2afm.ps/g; (DOS-oriented??) I had no time yet to test it on all fonts, but this may well be the ultimate tool. Long live Poland! On 17/04/99 at 22:28, tjk@ams.org (Tom Kacvinsky) wrote: > I had problems with ttf2ps. I couldn't get it to write out a PS file > from a TrueType font. What version are you using? Where did you get > it? The copy I am using I found at > > http://www.leo.org/pub/comp/usenet/comp.sources.postscript/ttf2ps/ttf2ps.tar.gz/. > Actually I mispelled it: it is ttfps I'm using. I got it from ftp://ftp.dcs.ed.ac.uk/pub/jec/programs/ttfps.tar.gz I compiled it under Linux and it works fine, except for times.ttf +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Yannis Haralambous, Ph.D. yannis@fluxus-virus.com | | http://www.fluxus-virus.com/yannis | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | 187, rue Nationale fax : +33 (0)3.20.40.28.64 | | 59800 Lille, France tél. : +33 (0)6.07.98.16.26 | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Visit the Omega home page!! http://www.ens.fr/omega | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ ...pour distinguer l'extérieur d'un aquarium, mieux vaut n'être pas poisson ...the ball I threw while playing in the park has never reached the ground 25-Apr-1999 16:19:52-GMT,1670;000000000000 Return-Path: <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id KAA09735 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 10:19:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from MAUI (p82.block2.tc2.state.MA.tiac.com [206.119.246.211]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.3/AI2.10/ai.master.life:2.4) with ESMTP id MAA25889 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 12:19:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.32.19990425121406.00b1c060@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.32 (Beta) Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 12:19:32 -0400 To: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu From: Berthold Horn <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Subject: possible exercise in dream interpretation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi: I have the distinct recollection that I saw a posting regarding changes to the f-ligatures in the CM sans serif fonts that DEK made (or discussed). But now I can't find it. What I remember is something about dropping the dot on the i in fi and ffi to the same level they are in the letter i itself. Regards, Berthold. P.S. My current best interpretation of this is that I may have had a particularly lucid dream (or shall we say nightmare) about DEK continuing to make changes to CM :-) Now I looked in the fonts and sure enough the dot is higher in fi and ffi. On the other hand, I can not see any changes in the MetaFont source... Please help me! Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph/bkph.html Would you say I have a plethora of piñatas? 25-Apr-1999 17:05:14-GMT,2265;000000000000 Return-Path: <Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr> Received: from ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.232.33]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id LAA10876 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 11:05:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.241.5]) by ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA29431 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 19:05:11 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from bouche@localhost) by mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.7.6/8.6.9) id TAA03357 for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 19:10:32 +0200 (MET DST) From: Thierry Bouche <Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr> Message-Id: <199904251710.TAA03357@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> Subject: Bug in Belleek fonts? In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.32.19990425121406.00b1c060@mail.ai.mit.edu> from Berthold Horn at "Apr 25, 1999 12:19:32 pm" To: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 19:10:32 +0200 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL56 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've just installed the belleek fonts from the TL4 CD. Something is wrong with them. there is somewhere a support file the simply replaces calls to the MT fonts by call to BL fonts in the mathtime FD. But there are no BL TFMs on the TL4 CD. Well -- given that Kinch says in his TUB paper that they are dropped in replacements for the MT fonts, i thought that the right installation for them was rather to use the genuine MathTime support, and simply call for the BL PFB's in psfonts.map. This does work up to the encoding incompatibilities between BL and MT... + The bug lies in the BLEX font, char 20 being a space (width .333em). It should be parenleftBigg (width .693em). So not only is the BLEX font not metrically compatible to MTEX, but, as the char is typically selected from the TFM with the Nextlarger operation, it is not compatible either with OMX encoding. Maybe one could reencode it on the fly in the following fashion mtex BLEX <blex.pfb <[mtex.enc but it is not how the bellek.map is. + The unencoded yandy logo is replaced by a ttmascot lion (harmless, but _not_ metrically compatible although claimed to be :-) -- Thierry Bouche. 26-Apr-1999 13:54:52-GMT,1038;000000000000 Return-Path: <wschmi@ibm.net> Received: from out5.ibm.net (out5.ibm.net [165.87.194.243]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id HAA09687 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 07:54:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from slip139-92-14-36.nue.de.ibm.net (slip139-92-14-36.nue.de.ibm.net [139.92.14.36]) by out5.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA74174 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:54:46 GMT Message-Id: <199904261354.NAA74174@out5.ibm.net> From: "Walter Schmidt" <wschmi@ibm.net> To: "tex-fonts" <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 15:55:34 +0200 Reply-To: "wschmi@ibm.net" <wschmi@ibm.net> Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 1.96a (OS/2 Warp) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Bug in Belleek fonts? Belleek fonts? BLEX? I have never heard these terms before, and I could not find them on CTAN either. And TeXLive4 is not yet distributed here. Could someone please enlighten me? TIA Walter 26-Apr-1999 14:08:28-GMT,2474;000000000000 Return-Path: <beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu> Received: from plot79.math.utah.edu (beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu [155.101.20.21]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id IAA10149; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 08:08:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from beebe@localhost) by plot79.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) id IAA29263; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 08:08:26 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 08:08:26 -0600 (MDT) From: "Nelson H. F. Beebe" <beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu> To: "tex-fonts" <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> Cc: beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu, "Walter Schmidt" <wschmi@ibm.net> X-US-Mail: "Center for Scientific Computing, Department of Mathematics, 322 INSCC, University of Utah, 155 S 1400 E RM 233, Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA" X-Telephone: +1 801 581 5254 X-FAX: +1 801 585 1640, +1 801 581 4148 X-URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe Subject: Re Belleek fonts? Message-ID: <CMM.0.91.0.925135706.beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu> "Walter Schmidt" <wschmi@ibm.net> writes on Mon, 26 Apr 1999 15:55:34 +0200: >> Belleek fonts? BLEX? >> I have never heard these terms before, and I could not >> find them on CTAN either. Here is the original article: @Article{Kinch:TB19-3-244, author = "Richard J. Kinch", title = "{{{Belleek: A call for \MF{} revival}}}", journal = j-TUGboat, volume = "19", number = "3", pages = "244--249", month = sep, year = "1998", ISSN = "0896-3207", bibdate = "Sat Feb 20 18:54:33 MST 1999", bibsource = "ftp://ftp.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/tugboat.bib; http://www.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/index-table-t.html#tugboat", acknowledgement = ack-bnb # " and " # ack-nhfb, } The TrueTeX Software Web site at http://www.truetex.com/ has a pointer to the article and fonts on that page. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 - - Center for Scientific Computing FAX: +1 801 585 1640, +1 801 581 4148 - - University of Utah Internet e-mail: beebe@math.utah.edu - - Department of Mathematics, 322 INSCC beebe@acm.org - - 155 S 1400 E RM 233 beebe@ieee.org - - Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28-Apr-1999 21:26:05-GMT,1730;000000000000 Return-Path: <reinhard@kammer.uni-hannover.de> Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id PAA28723 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 15:26:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kammer.uni-hannover.de (IDENT:root@zaphod.kammer.uni-hannover.de [130.75.139.53]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA31539 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 17:26:01 -0400 Received: from milliways.kammer.uni-hannover.de.kammer.uni-hannover.de (reinhard@milliways.kammer.uni-hannover.de [130.75.139.56]) by kammer.uni-hannover.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA32014 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 23:25:52 +0200 Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 23:25:52 +0200 Message-Id: <199904282125.XAA32014@kammer.uni-hannover.de> From: Reinhard Kotucha <reinhard@kammer.uni-hannover.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: bitstrea.map X-Mailer: VM 6.37 under Emacs 20.2.1 Hi Karl, there is the following entry in bitstrea.map: bwdb8a WeidemannITCbyBT-Bold BT 1091 weidmnb bwdbir WeidemannITCbyBT-BoldItalic BT 1092 weidmnbi Shouldn't the last one be "bwdbi8a"? Regards, Reinhard -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reinhard Kotucha Phone: +49-511-751355 Berggartenstr. 9 D-30419 Hannover mailto:reinhard@kammer.uni-hannover.de ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Microsoft isn't the answer. Microsoft is the question, and the answer is NO. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 29-Apr-1999 20:44:39-GMT,1733;000000000000 Return-Path: <reinhard@kammer.uni-hannover.de> Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id OAA05248 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 14:44:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kammer.uni-hannover.de (IDENT:root@zaphod.kammer.uni-hannover.de [130.75.139.53]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA04820 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 16:44:30 -0400 Received: from milliways.kammer.uni-hannover.de.kammer.uni-hannover.de (reinhard@milliways.kammer.uni-hannover.de [130.75.139.56]) by kammer.uni-hannover.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA02501 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 22:44:14 +0200 Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 22:44:14 +0200 Message-Id: <199904292044.WAA02501@kammer.uni-hannover.de> From: Reinhard Kotucha <reinhard@kammer.uni-hannover.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: bitstrea.map again X-Mailer: VM 6.37 under Emacs 20.2.1 Hi, are the following entries in bitstrea.map correct? borr108a OratorBT-TenPitch BT 0755 orator10 borr158a OratorBT-FifteenPitch BT 0758 orator15 The variants look a bit strange. Regards, Reinhard -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reinhard Kotucha Phone: +49-511-751355 Berggartenstr. 9 D-30419 Hannover mailto:reinhard@kammer.uni-hannover.de ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Microsoft isn't the answer. Microsoft is the question, and the answer is NO. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 30-Apr-1999 10:10:55-GMT,1610;000000000000 Return-Path: <Lars.Hellstrom@math.umu.se> Received: from mail.math.umu.se (root@abel.math.umu.se [130.239.20.139]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id EAA26532 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 04:10:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [130.239.20.144] (mac144.math.umu.se [130.239.20.144]) by mail.math.umu.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA09711 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 12:10:51 +0200 (MET DST) X-Sender: lars@abel.math.umu.se Message-Id: <l03130300b34f2c66a32a@[130.239.20.144]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 12:10:51 +0200 To: TeX-fonts list <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> From: Lars =?iso-8859-1?Q?Hellstr=F6m?= <Lars.Hellstrom@math.umu.se> Subject: AFMs on CTAN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by csc-sun.math.utah.edu id EAA26533 Unless my memory serves me much worse than usual, there used to be a quite extensive collection of AFMs for commercial fonts on CTAN. However, when I tried to find one of these files the other week, I failed to do so, even though I searched the entire FILES.byname for anything named AFM. (This search did turn up a couple of AFM files, but they were all directly either math- or TeX-related, and not by far as many as those I remember.) Therefore I ask: 1. Am I right about this, was there a large collection of AFMs which has now been removed? 2. If yes, then *why* have they been removed? 3. Where can I find the files today (preferrably somewhere accessible through anonymous FTP)? Lars Hellström 30-Apr-1999 10:24:36-GMT,886;000000000000 Return-Path: <davidc@nag.co.uk> Received: from nag.co.uk (openmath.nag.co.uk [192.156.217.16]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id EAA26874 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 04:24:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from davidc@localhost) by nag.co.uk (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) id LAA23600; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:21:49 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:21:49 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <199904301021.LAA23600@nag.co.uk> From: David Carlisle <davidc@nag.co.uk> To: Lars.Hellstrom@math.umu.se CC: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu In-reply-to: <l03130300b34f2c66a32a@[130.239.20.144]> (message from Lars =?iso-8859-1?Q?Hellstr=F6m?= on Fri, 30 Apr 1999 12:10:51 +0200) Subject: Re: AFMs on CTAN References: <l03130300b34f2c66a32a@[130.239.20.144]> you have to get them from adobe's site (their licence forbids mirror ftp archives so they had to go from ctan) David 30-Apr-1999 10:46:09-GMT,1916;000000000000 Return-Path: <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id EAA27421 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 04:46:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from MAUI (p2.tc15.metro.MA.tiac.com [209.61.78.131]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.3/AI2.10/ai.master.life:2.4) with ESMTP id GAA22277; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 06:46:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.37.19990430064033.01806c10@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.37 (Beta) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 06:45:28 -0400 To: Lars Hellström <Lars.Hellstrom@math.umu.se>, TeX-fonts list <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> From: Berthold Horn <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Subject: Re: AFMs on CTAN In-Reply-To: <l03130300b34f2c66a32a@[130.239.20.144]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 12:10 1999-04-30 +0200, Lars Hellström wrote: >: >1. Am I right about this, was there a large collection of AFMs which has >now been removed? Yes. >2. If yes, then *why* have they been removed? Concerns about copyright issues. >3. Where can I find the files today (preferrably somewhere accessible >through anonymous FTP)? See http://www.adobe.com/supportservice/custsupport/SOLUTIONS/957a.htm The files are at ftp://ftp.adobe.com/pub/adobe/type/win/all/afmfiles/ Also on TOC http://www.adobe.com/supportservice/custsupport/NOTES/3632.htm The AFM files are on the Type on Call (TOC) CD. You need to poke around to find them since they are organized on font set number and may be marked "hidden" or something. But you do not need to buy fonts to access them. http://partners.adobe.com/supportservice/devrelations/typeforum/fontinfo.html Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph/bkph.html Would you say I have a plethora of piñatas? 30-Apr-1999 12:43:37-GMT,1257;000000000000 Return-Path: <Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr> Received: from ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.232.33]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id GAA00175 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 06:43:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.241.5]) by ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA09984 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 14:43:33 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from bouche@localhost) by mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.7.6/8.6.9) id OAA23407; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 14:49:38 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 14:49:38 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199904301249.OAA23407@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> From: Thierry Bouche <Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr> To: TeX-fonts list <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> Subject: Re: AFMs on CTAN In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.37.19990430064033.01806c10@mail.ai.mit.edu> References: <l03130300b34f2c66a32a@[130.239.20.144]> <4.2.0.37.19990430064033.01806c10@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit » The AFM files are on the Type on Call (TOC) CD. And also on old CTAN snapshots. 30-Apr-1999 13:12:54-GMT,2474;000000000000 Return-Path: <beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu> Received: from plot79.math.utah.edu (beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu [155.101.20.21]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id HAA00953; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 07:12:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from beebe@localhost) by plot79.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) id HAA24808; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 07:12:53 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 07:12:53 -0600 (MDT) From: "Nelson H. F. Beebe" <beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu> _From: "Nelson H.F. Beebe" <beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu> To: TeX-fonts list <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> Cc: beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu X-US-Mail: "Center for Scientific Computing, Department of Mathematics, 322 INSCC, University of Utah, 155 S 1400 E RM 233, Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA" X-Telephone: +1 801 581 5254 X-FAX: +1 801 585 1640, +1 801 581 4148 X-URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe Subject: Re: AFMs on CTAN Message-ID: <CMM.0.91.0.925477972.beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu> Lars Hellstr{\"o}m <Lars.Hellstrom@math.umu.se> asks on Fri, 30 Apr 1999 12:10:51 +0200 about AFM files on CTAN. While I cannot answer the questions about their past existence on CTAN, I can point you to sources on the Internet. Start at http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe/fonts/index.html This will lead to an index of 20,623+ fonts at http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe/fonts/fonts-to-vendors.html For Adobe fonts, look in ftp://ftp.adobe.com/pub/adobe/type/mac/all/afmfiles/ ftp://ftp.adobe.com/pub/adobe/type/dos/all/afmfiles/ ftp://ftp.adobe.com/pub/adobe/type/win/all/afmfiles/ Please note that while some vendors (e.g., Adobe) allow their AFM files to be freely distributed, provided that they are not modified, others do not (e.g., Bitstream). Bitstream afm files contain the significant line: Comment Confidential and proprietary to Bitstream Inc. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 - - Center for Scientific Computing FAX: +1 801 585 1640, +1 801 581 4148 - - University of Utah Internet e-mail: beebe@math.utah.edu - - Department of Mathematics, 322 INSCC beebe@acm.org - - 155 S 1400 E RM 233 beebe@ieee.org - - Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 30-Apr-1999 21:27:33-GMT,1256;000000000000 Return-Path: <karl@cs.umb.edu> Received: from cs.umb.edu (cs.umb.edu [158.121.104.2]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id PAA16785 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 15:27:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hub.cs.umb.edu (hub.cs.umb.edu [158.121.104.161]) by cs.umb.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA03256; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 17:24:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Karl Berry <karl@cs.umb.edu> Received: (from karl@localhost) by hub.cs.umb.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA11761; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 17:24:13 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 17:24:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199904302124.RAA11761@hub.cs.umb.edu> To: reinhard@kammer.uni-hannover.de, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: bitstrea.map bwdbir WeidemannITCbyBT-BoldItalic BT 1092 weidmnbi Shouldn't the last one be "bwdbi8a"? Indeed. Thanks. are the following entries in bitstrea.map correct? borr108a OratorBT-TenPitch BT 0755 orator10 borr158a OratorBT-FifteenPitch BT 0758 orator15 Well, I just made them up. I guess maybe borr8a10 would be better. zborr8a10 probably the only really `correct' name. Hmm. I wonder if anyone has ever used the names in a tex document. I'd tend to doubt it. 1-May-1999 15:04:19-GMT,2107;000000000000 Return-Path: <changfkk@dds.nl> Received: from smtp2.hetnet.nl (smtp2.hetnet.nl [145.7.226.1]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id JAA11584 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sat, 1 May 1999 09:04:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hetnet.nl ([194.151.104.129]) by smtp2.hetnet.nl with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18); Sat, 1 May 1999 16:55:18 +0200 Received: from deus ([145.53.22.77]) by hetnet.nl with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.117.11); Sat, 1 May 1999 17:02:49 +0200 Received: from dds.nl (really [127.0.0.1]) by deus via in.smtpd with esmtp (ident felix using rfc1413) id <m10dCJW-0006jzC@deus> (Debian Smail3.2.0.102) for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 12:22:42 +0000 (/etc/localtime) Sender: felix Message-ID: <3729A090.EC7BEC86@dds.nl> Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 12:22:40 +0000 From: Felix Chang <changfkk@dds.nl> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.6 i586) X-Accept-Language: nl, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tex-fonts <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> Subject: Poor man's oldstyle figures Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello I want to construct poor man's oldstyle figures by doing the following: 3,4,5,7,9, lower by (capheight-xheight) 6,8, do nothing 1,2,0 scale *height* by xheight/capheight this last one poses a problem to me: \setglyph{oneoldstyle} \glyph{one}{1000} *height scaling?* \endsetglyph to scale the height, I want to use something like \div{\int{xheight}}{\int{capheight}} (times 1000) but I need a rounded integer, not a real. I don't want to scale like the fake small caps since this scales the width too. In other words, what is the ``glyph'' equivalent of ``yscalefont''? Thanks in advance, Felix Chang -- ir F.K.K. Chang Haarlemmerstraat 303 http://stad.dsl.nl/~changfkk 2312 DV Leiden mailto:changfkk@dds.nl Tel/Fax 071 5147683 mailto:Felix.Chang@hoogovens.com Overdag 0251 492927 _______________________________________________________________________ 1-May-1999 16:34:39-GMT,1556;000000000000 Return-Path: <Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr> Received: from ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.232.33]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id KAA13713 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sat, 1 May 1999 10:34:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.241.5]) by ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA23383; Sat, 1 May 1999 18:34:36 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from bouche@localhost) by mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.7.6/8.6.9) id SAA08106; Sat, 1 May 1999 18:40:52 +0200 (MET DST) From: Thierry Bouche <Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr> Message-Id: <199905011640.SAA08106@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> Subject: Re: Poor man's oldstyle figures In-Reply-To: <3729A090.EC7BEC86@dds.nl> from Felix Chang at "Apr 30, 1999 12:22:40 pm" To: Felix Chang <changfkk@dds.nl> Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 18:40:52 +0200 (MET DST) CC: tex-fonts <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL56 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you want to scale only on the y axis, you need to make a font scaled on the x axis and use it in a VF 'scaled' something. namely : create pppr8rx with xscale capheight/xheight (define it in psfonts.map with ExtendFont), then use the 1 from that font scaled xheight/capheight in your OsVF. that way, you can also do better small caps for sans serif fonts. -- Thierry Bouche. ----- thierry.bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr http://www-fourier.ujf-grenoble.fr/~bouche/ 1-May-1999 22:23:35-GMT,3858;000000000000 Return-Path: <reinhard@kammer.uni-hannover.de> Received: from kammer.uni-hannover.de (IDENT:root@zaphod.kammer.uni-hannover.de [130.75.139.53]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id QAA21720 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sat, 1 May 1999 16:23:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from milliways.kammer.uni-hannover.de.kammer.uni-hannover.de (reinhard@milliways.kammer.uni-hannover.de [130.75.139.56]) by kammer.uni-hannover.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA07518; Sun, 2 May 1999 00:22:47 +0200 Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 00:22:47 +0200 Message-Id: <199905012222.AAA07518@kammer.uni-hannover.de> From: Reinhard Kotucha <reinhard@kammer.uni-hannover.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Karl Berry <karl@cs.umb.edu> Cc: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: bitstrea.map In-Reply-To: <199904302124.RAA11761@hub.cs.umb.edu> References: <199904302124.RAA11761@hub.cs.umb.edu> X-Mailer: VM 6.37 under Emacs 20.2.1 >>>>> "Karl" == Karl Berry <karl@cs.umb.edu> writes: > borr108a OratorBT-TenPitch BT 0755 orator10 > borr158a OratorBT-FifteenPitch BT 0758 orator15 > Well, I just made them up. I guess maybe borr8a10 would be > better. zborr8a10 probably the only really `correct' name. I prefer borr8a10, names beginning with z should be used if nothing else helps, at least in my opinion. In this case 10 and 15 are design sizes except that the doesn't describe the size in points. If a filename begins with z, all other characters will be arbitrary. Thus there will be no entry in typeface.map which means that I don't get a directory name for the fonts. Could we stay with borr8a{10,15} ? Does fontinst depend on the design size? And there is another one: zbshans ShelleyAndanteBT-Regular BT 0593 shlyandn zbshals ShelleyAllegroBT-Regular BT 0594 shlyalln zbshvos ShelleyVolanteBT-Regular BT 0595 shlyvoln I can't use typeface.map to get a directory name (because of the z). If z is ignored they go to bakersig/ which is obviously wrong. There are some other script fonts, namely: bernhard bb7rw8a BernhardTangoBT brush bburw8a BrushScriptBT lydian blyrw8a LydianCursiveBT lectra bearw8a Transitional521BT The only difference is that the shelley fonts are three (slightly) different typefaces with the same parameters (weight, encoding, ...) which should go to the same directory. As they only differ in the typeface they could be named something like b??rw8a. And you would usually use only one of them in the same document. I suggest to put into bitstrea.map something like: b0srw8a ShelleyAndanteBT-Regular BT 0593 shlyandn b1srw8a ShelleyAllegroBT-Regular BT 0594 shlyalln b2srw8a ShelleyVolanteBT-Regular BT 0595 shlyvoln and into typeface.map: 0s shelley Shelley 1s shelley Shelley 2s shelley Shelley The typeface names {0,1,2}s are not used at this time but I think it is a good idea to use other ones. Typeface names like <number><letter> are not used yet and could be reserved for special purposes. Who knows what comes in the future? There are many typefaces named __ in typeface.map. What's the reason? Do you think they are useless or was nobody interested in them? Thank you very much for your help. Regards, Reinhard -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reinhard Kotucha Phone: +49-511-751355 Berggartenstr. 9 D-30419 Hannover mailto:reinhard@kammer.uni-hannover.de ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Microsoft isn't the answer. Microsoft is the question, and the answer is NO. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3-May-1999 11:09:35-GMT,1481;000000000000 Return-Path: <Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr> Received: from ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.232.33]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id FAA11535 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Mon, 3 May 1999 05:09:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.241.5]) by ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA25581; Mon, 3 May 1999 13:09:12 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from bouche@localhost) by mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.7.6/8.6.9) id NAA15476; Mon, 3 May 1999 13:15:39 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 13:15:39 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199905031115.NAA15476@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> From: Thierry Bouche <Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr> To: Reinhard Kotucha <reinhard@kammer.uni-hannover.de> Cc: Karl Berry <karl@cs.umb.edu>, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: bitstrea.map In-Reply-To: <199905012222.AAA07518@kammer.uni-hannover.de> References: <199904302124.RAA11761@hub.cs.umb.edu> <199905012222.AAA07518@kammer.uni-hannover.de> X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit » If a filename begins with z, all other characters will be arbitrary. » Thus there will be no entry in typeface.map which means that I don't » get a directory name for the fonts. edit special.map 10/15 are not design size units, but the inverse unit, no? Thierry Bouche, Grenoble. 3-May-1999 13:38:13-GMT,1146;000000000000 Return-Path: <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> Received: from mail.arcor-ip.de (mail-ffm-p.arcor-ip.de [145.253.2.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id HAA15010 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Mon, 3 May 1999 07:38:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from nbg-145-253-67-209.arcor-ip.net (145.253.67.209) by mail.arcor-ip.de; 3 May 1999 15:37:30 +0200 Message-ID: <372da69b372c7568@mail.arcor-ip.de> (added by mail.arcor-ip.de) From: "Walter Schmidt" <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> To: "tex-fonts" <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 15:20:13 +0200 Reply-To: "walter.schmidt@arcormail.de" <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 1.96a (OS/2 Warp) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Poor man's oldstyle figures On Fri, 30 Apr 1999 12:22:40 +0000, Felix Chang wrote: >I want to construct poor man's oldstyle figures by doing the following: > >3,4,5,7,9, lower by (capheight-xheight) >6,8, do nothing >1,2,0 scale *height* by xheight/capheight What about using a scaled-down capital I for the numeral 1 ? Walter 3-May-1999 20:18:04-GMT,3438;000000000000 Return-Path: <reinhard@kammer.uni-hannover.de> Received: from kammer.uni-hannover.de (IDENT:root@zaphod.kammer.uni-hannover.de [130.75.139.53]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id OAA27948 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Mon, 3 May 1999 14:17:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from milliways.kammer.uni-hannover.de.kammer.uni-hannover.de (reinhard@milliways.kammer.uni-hannover.de [130.75.139.56]) by kammer.uni-hannover.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA00872; Mon, 3 May 1999 22:17:42 +0200 Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 22:17:42 +0200 Message-Id: <199905032017.WAA00872@kammer.uni-hannover.de> From: Reinhard Kotucha <reinhard@kammer.uni-hannover.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 To: Thierry Bouche <Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr> Cc: Reinhard Kotucha <reinhard@kammer.uni-hannover.de>, Karl Berry <karl@cs.umb.edu>, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: bitstrea.map In-Reply-To: <199905031115.NAA15476@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> References: <199904302124.RAA11761@hub.cs.umb.edu> <199905012222.AAA07518@kammer.uni-hannover.de> <199905031115.NAA15476@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> X-Mailer: VM 6.37 under Emacs 20.2.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by csc-sun.math.utah.edu id OAA27966 >>>>> "Thierry" == Thierry Bouche <Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr> writes: > » If a filename begins with z, all other characters will be > arbitrary. » Thus there will be no entry in typeface.map which > means that I don't » get a directory name for the fonts. > edit special.map Of course you can put everything into special.map which doesn't fit into the naming scheme easily. But in my opinion one should always think about a better solution before putting something to special.map. There is too much stuff in it for historical reasons. Another reason for using the "berry names" is that you can use the \latinfamily command of fontinst which relies on this naming scheme. > 10/15 are not design size units, but the inverse unit, no? Yes and no. What you might expect is a font with 10 chars/inch and another one with 15 chars/inch, but both having the same height. In this case the relationship width/height is almost the same. If you scale the 15 pitch font by 1.5, both fonts have the same width, but the enlarged 15 pitch font is even a bit higher and has less space between characters. So the term "design size" is not totally wrong despite that it is used in an unusual way. The font names TenPitch and FifteenPitch are misleading as well. If you want to see what I'm talking about I could send you the output of %!PS 50 500 moveto 350 0 rlineto gsave .6 setgray stroke grestore 50 500 moveto /OratorBT-TenPitch 50 selectfont (Hello ) show /OratorBT-FifteenPitch 50 selectfont 1.5 dup scale (Hello) show showpage as a PDF file (only 1525 bytes). But then don't ask me why the 10 cpi font appears below the baseline :) Regards, Reinhard -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reinhard Kotucha Phone: +49-511-751355 Berggartenstr. 9 D-30419 Hannover mailto:reinhard@kammer.uni-hannover.de ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Microsoft isn't the answer. Microsoft is the question, and the answer is NO. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5-May-1999 21:18:59-GMT,2168;000000000000 Return-Path: <rhfischl@math.carleton.ca> Received: from gauss.math.carleton.ca (rhfischl@gauss.math.carleton.ca [134.117.21.209]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id PAA18161 for <tex-font@math.utah.edu>; Wed, 5 May 1999 15:18:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from rhfischl@localhost) by gauss.math.carleton.ca (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id RAA03264; Wed, 5 May 1999 17:14:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Roger Herz Fischler <rhfischl@math.carleton.ca> Message-Id: <199905052114.RAA03264@gauss.math.carleton.ca> Subject: question about psfonts To: tex-font@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 17:14:20 -0400 (EDT) Cc: rhfischl@gauss.math.carleton.ca (Roger Herz Fischler) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Roger Herz-Fischler Dept. of Mathematics, Carleton University Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, K1S 5B6 e-mail: rhfischl@math.carleton.ca.; telecopier: (613) 788-3536 tel: (613) 788- 2144; mathematics office: (613) 788-2155 To: "tex-fonts@math.utah.edu After much searching I came about the vast treasure house at //web.rge.com/pub/tex/fonts I am unable to tell either by going up or down in the directories who was kind to put all these files, but I wish to thank them. I have already down loaded the long elusive ccr files and have printed a class text from them. However for a research book [The Shape of the Great Pyramid] I was looking for something more "traditional" as the editor thought that cm was too "thin". I then noticed /tex/fonts/psfonts/adobe/times Unfortunately I do not understand the system of denoting adobe fonts eg. ptmb8c vs ptmb8r vs ptmb8t vs ptmbc8t etc. I looked at: /wwwmaths.anu.edu/au/services/fontname which enabled me to determine that tm = times and I surmised that the prefix "p" stood for postscript, but again it did not help with the above problem. Is there a site or source where I can find out what the symbols mean. With many thanks, Roger Herz-Fischler 6-May-1999 19:33:49-GMT,1828;000000000000 Return-Path: <reinhard@kammer.uni-hannover.de> Received: from kammer.uni-hannover.de (IDENT:root@zaphod.kammer.uni-hannover.de [130.75.139.53]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id NAA24154 for <tex-font@math.utah.edu>; Thu, 6 May 1999 13:33:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from milliways.kammer.uni-hannover.de.kammer.uni-hannover.de (reinhard@milliways.kammer.uni-hannover.de [130.75.139.56]) by kammer.uni-hannover.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA09329; Thu, 6 May 1999 21:32:46 +0200 Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 21:32:46 +0200 Message-Id: <199905061932.VAA09329@kammer.uni-hannover.de> From: Reinhard Kotucha <reinhard@kammer.uni-hannover.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Roger Herz Fischler <rhfischl@math.carleton.ca> Cc: tex-font@csc-sun.math.utah.edu, rhfischl@gauss.math.carleton.ca (Roger Herz Fischler) Subject: question about psfonts In-Reply-To: <199905052114.RAA03264@gauss.math.carleton.ca> References: <199905052114.RAA03264@gauss.math.carleton.ca> X-Mailer: VM 6.37 under Emacs 20.2.1 >>>>> "Roger" == Roger Herz Fischler <rhfischl@math.carleton.ca> writes: > did not help with the above problem. Is there a site or source > where I can find out what the symbols mean. Yes, http://www.tug.org/fontname , section "Filenames for fonts". Regards, Reinhard -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reinhard Kotucha Phone: +49-511-751355 Berggartenstr. 9 D-30419 Hannover mailto:reinhard@kammer.uni-hannover.de ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Microsoft isn't the answer. Microsoft is the question, and the answer is NO. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7-May-1999 14:40:04-GMT,3203;000000000000 Return-Path: <Lars.Hellstrom@math.umu.se> Received: from mail.math.umu.se (root@abel.math.umu.se [130.239.20.139]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id IAA23291 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Fri, 7 May 1999 08:40:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [130.239.20.144] (mac144.math.umu.se [130.239.20.144]) by mail.math.umu.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA04555 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Fri, 7 May 1999 16:40:00 +0200 (MET DST) X-Sender: lars@abel.math.umu.se Message-Id: <l03130302b35894017e26@[130.239.20.144]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 16:39:58 +0200 To: TeX-fonts list <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> From: Lars =?iso-8859-1?Q?Hellstr=F6m?= <Lars.Hellstrom@math.umu.se> Subject: The design units of fontinst Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by csc-sun.math.utah.edu id IAA23292 While trying to pinpoint a bug in fontinst the other day, I noticed something very strange. In every (V)PL file fontinst generates, it sets DESIGNUNITS to the same numeric value as DESIGNSIZE. (For those of you who don't remember what the DESIGNUNITS property does (I didn't), here's a quote from VPtoVF.web: > DESIGNUNITS (numeric value, default is 1). The value > should be a positive real number; it says how many units equals the design > size (or the eventual `at' size, if the font is being scaled). For > example, suppose you have a font that has been digitized with 600 pixels per > em, and the design size is one em; then you could say `(DESIGNUNITS R 600)' > if you wanted to give all of your measurements in units of pixels. ) As far as I understand it, using the same numerical value for DESIGNSIZE and DESIGNUNITS simply means that the unit used for all other dimensions in the (V)PL file will be the typographical point, since this is the unit used to specify the design size. This is a rather strange setup, since fontinst internally uses AFM units for dimensions, and AFM units are relative to the design size. This setup requires that all dimensions are converted from AFM units to points before being written, and this involves quite a lot of work. What seems to me to be a much simpler setup is to use the default value of 1 for DESIGNUNITS, as this makes 1 (V)PL unit = 1000 AFM units. Some kind of conversion is still necessary, but it can be made a bit simpler and, more importantly, it can be made without any rounding errors. (Having 1 (V)PL unit = 1 AFM unit is even simpler, but then one couldn't make anything larger than 2048 AFM units, and I think that is far too restrictive.) An extra plus is that this would mean that fontinst will be able to correctly interpret the PL files it generates (the bug I mensioned above turned out to be that the PL-to-MTX converter assumes that the design unit is the design size, as it is in the Computer Modern fonts). However, the reason I bring this matter public is that I think the current construction is a bit too inconvenient (for the programmer) to become the one used just by mere chance. I therefore ask the fontinst community: Is there a reason for using points as the (V)PL units? Lars Hellström 7-May-1999 14:44:21-GMT,1083;000000000000 Return-Path: <Lars.Hellstrom@math.umu.se> Received: from mail.math.umu.se (root@abel.math.umu.se [130.239.20.139]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id IAA23429 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Fri, 7 May 1999 08:44:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [130.239.20.144] (mac144.math.umu.se [130.239.20.144]) by mail.math.umu.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA04573 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Fri, 7 May 1999 16:44:18 +0200 (MET DST) X-Sender: lars@abel.math.umu.se Message-Id: <l03130303b358abe51b18@[130.239.20.144]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 16:44:17 +0200 To: TeX-fonts list <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> From: Lars =?iso-8859-1?Q?Hellstr=F6m?= <Lars.Hellstrom@math.umu.se> Subject: The design units of fontinst Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by csc-sun.math.utah.edu id IAA23430 Sorry about that last mail, I really intended to send it to the fontinst list. Oh well, I suppose it reached most people interested in it anyway. Lars Hellström 8-May-1999 14:46:20-GMT,4837;000000000000 Return-Path: <beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu> Received: from plot79.math.utah.edu (beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu [155.101.20.21]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id IAA29096; Sat, 8 May 1999 08:46:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from beebe@localhost) by plot79.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) id IAA29803; Sat, 8 May 1999 08:46:15 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 08:46:15 -0600 (MDT) From: "Nelson H. F. Beebe" <beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu> To: TeXhax@tex.ac.uk, LATEX-L@URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE Cc: beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu X-US-Mail: "Center for Scientific Computing, Department of Mathematics, 322 INSCC, University of Utah, 155 S 1400 E RM 233, Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA" X-Telephone: +1 801 581 5254 X-FAX: +1 801 585 1640, +1 801 581 4148 X-URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe Subject: Two important new books Message-ID: <CMM.0.91.0.926174775.beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu> Last night, I bought two important new books which have just appeared at bookstores in Salt Lake City, Utah, USA: The preface to the first begins: This books brings together more than 30 articles nad notes that I have written about the subject of digital typography, popularly called ``desktop publishing''. ... I guess I must have ink in my veins. @String{pub-CSLI = "CSLI Publications"} @String{pub-CSLI:adr = "Stanford, CA, USA"} @Book{Knuth:1999:DT, author = "Donald E. Knuth", title = "Digital Typography", publisher = pub-CSLI, address = pub-CSLI:adr, pages = "xvi + 685", year = "1999", ISBN = "1-57586-011-2 (cloth), 1-57586-010-4 (paperback)", LCCN = "Z249.3.K59 1998", bibdate = "Sat May 08 07:52:35 1999", price = "US\$29.95", acknowledgement = ack-nhfb, } The second book is the long-awaited definition of PostScript Language Level 3. While previous editions of several Adobe PostScript books had a distinctive spine, with red at the top, and white at the bottom, this new one unfortunately has a black spine, with red and white lettering, making it harder to spot on a bookshelf. The cover retains the old red/white style. Although Apple and Xante have been shipping printers with Level 3 support for more than two years, Hewlett-Packard (visit them at http://www.hp.com/go/printers) only in the last few months, with the new HP Color LaserJet 8500, offers such support, and the number two printer vendor, Lexmark, has yet to do so. @String{pub-AW = "Ad{\-d}i{\-s}on-Wes{\-l}ey"} @String{pub-AW:adr = "Reading, MA, USA"} @Book{Adobe:1999:PLR, author = "{Adobe Systems Incorporated}", title = "{PostScript} Language Reference", publisher = pub-AW, address = pub-AW:adr, edition = "Third", pages = "xii + 897", year = "1999", ISBN = "0-201-37922-8", LCCN = "QA76.73.P67 P67 1999", bibdate = "Sat May 08 07:43:15 1999", price = "US\$49.95, CDN\$74.95", acknowledgement = ack-nhfb, } -------------------------------- Entries for these books, and related publications, can be found in the bibliography archives at ftp://ftp.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/master.* ftp://ftp.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/postscri.* ftp://ftp.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/texbook3.* http://www.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/index-table-m.html#master http://www.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/index-table-p.html#postscri http://www.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/index-table-t.html#texbook3 The master Web page for these collections can be found at http://www.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/index-table.html with brief journal tables-of-contents at http://www.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/toc/ and extensive cross-referenced journal article indexes at http://www.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/idx/index.html These collections are mirrored regularly to several other Internet archives, include the huge Karlsruhe Computer Science archive at http://liinwww.ira.uka.de/bibliography/ That page includes pointers to eight mirror sites around the globe. The Karlsruhe archive contains about 930,000 entries, of which 232,659 come from the Utah archive. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 - - Center for Scientific Computing FAX: +1 801 585 1640, +1 801 581 4148 - - University of Utah Internet e-mail: beebe@math.utah.edu - - Department of Mathematics, 322 INSCC beebe@acm.org - - 155 S 1400 E RM 233 beebe@ieee.org - - Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9-May-1999 21:05:56-GMT,1742;000000000000 Return-Path: <changfkk@dds.nl> Received: from smtp1.hetnet.nl (smtp1.hetnet.nl [145.7.225.1]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id PAA07930 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sun, 9 May 1999 15:05:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hetnet.nl ([194.151.104.129]) by smtp1.hetnet.nl with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18); Sun, 9 May 1999 23:02:11 +0200 Received: from deus ([145.53.22.64]) by hetnet.nl with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.117.11); Sun, 9 May 1999 23:04:23 +0200 Received: from dds.nl (really [127.0.0.1]) by deus via in.smtpd with esmtp (ident felix using rfc1413) id <m10gaEH-0006jSC@deus> (Debian Smail3.2.0.102) for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sun, 9 May 1999 22:31:17 +0200 (CEST) Sender: felix Message-ID: <3735F093.2E7B7D6F@dds.nl> Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 22:31:15 +0200 From: Felix Chang <changfkk@dds.nl> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.7-ac1 i586) X-Accept-Language: nl, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tex-fonts <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> Subject: Re: Poor man's oldstyle figures References: <199905011640.SAA08106@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit By the way, why doesn't fontinst scale poor man's small caps automatically (by dividing xheight/capheight or \height{x} by \height{A} or something) Thanks Felix PS will use fontinst list in the future. -- ir F.K.K. Chang Haarlemmerstraat 303 http://stad.dsl.nl/~changfkk 2312 DV Leiden mailto:changfkk@dds.nl Tel/Fax 071 5147683 mailto:Felix.Chang@hoogovens.com Overdag 0251 492927 _______________________________________________________________________ 9-May-1999 23:36:20-GMT,1762;000000000000 Return-Path: <ajeffrey@cs.depaul.edu> Received: from bach.cs.depaul.edu (bach.cs.depaul.edu [140.192.33.6]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id RAA11291 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sun, 9 May 1999 17:36:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cs.depaul.edu (POLLOCK [24.136.8.8]) by bach.cs.depaul.edu with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id J7KNHY07; Sun, 9 May 1999 18:36:14 -0500 Sender: ajeffrey Message-ID: <37361C5C.AFB7D512@cs.depaul.edu> Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 18:38:04 -0500 From: Alan Jeffrey <ajeffrey@cs.depaul.edu> Organization: DePaul University X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.0.36 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Felix Chang <changfkk@dds.nl> CC: tex-fonts <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> Subject: Re: Poor man's oldstyle figures References: <199905011640.SAA08106@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> <3735F093.2E7B7D6F@dds.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Felix Chang wrote: > why doesn't fontinst scale poor man's small caps automatically > (by dividing xheight/capheight or \height{x} by \height{A} or > something) I tried this when I was setting up fontinst, but (if memory serves) on a lot of fonts, setting the small caps height = xheight resulted in small caps which were too small. One problem is that since we're faking the small caps by shrinking real caps that the resulting glyphs are much lighter in colour than the surrounding text. Even with small caps glyphs at 80% of full height it's noticable: a page of c&sc text is a lighter grey than a page of u&lc text. Alan. -- Alan Jeffrey, CTI, DePaul University, 243 S Wabash, Chicago IL 60604 ajeffrey@cs.depaul.edu http://klee.cs.depaul.edu/ajeffrey/ 10-May-1999 10:24:24-GMT,2043;000000000000 Return-Path: <Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr> Received: from ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.232.33]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id EAA25916 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Mon, 10 May 1999 04:24:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.241.5]) by ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA28722; Mon, 10 May 1999 12:24:09 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from bouche@localhost) by mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.7.6/8.6.9) id MAA29898; Mon, 10 May 1999 12:31:45 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 12:31:45 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199905101031.MAA29898@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> From: Thierry Bouche <Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr> To: Felix Chang <changfkk@dds.nl> Cc: tex-fonts <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> Subject: Re: Poor man's oldstyle figures In-Reply-To: <3735F093.2E7B7D6F@dds.nl> References: <199905011640.SAA08106@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> <3735F093.2E7B7D6F@dds.nl> X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit » why doesn't fontinst scale poor man's small caps automatically » (by dividing xheight/capheight or \height{x} by \height{A} or » something) If you want to keep the stem weight you need to scale only vertically (or scale 90 % horizontally, 65 % vertically, e.g.). But then you enter the dark area of font freaking, and you'll realize soon that one trick that works in one case won't on another design. For instance, the letter o in Futura cannot be anything else than a perfect circle, so faking an oblique version or a non homothetical small cap will yield something unusable (as are some Bitstream's Futura weights, btw...). So the choice (as any default choice) is between a bad solution that is never very bad nor very well suited, and a specific solution that works in one case, and could be tailored for few other cases... Better not using faked glyphs anyway. Thierry Bouche, Grenoble. 10-May-1999 11:05:47-GMT,2690;000000000000 Return-Path: <yharalambous@nordmail.nordnet.fr> Received: from smtp.nordnet.fr (root@smtp.nordnet.fr [194.206.126.239]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id FAA26902 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Mon, 10 May 1999 05:05:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 195.146.225.102 (gate6-102.nordnet.fr [195.146.225.102]) by smtp.nordnet.fr (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id NAA26258; Mon, 10 May 1999 13:05:40 +0200 Message-Id: <199905101105.NAA26258@smtp.nordnet.fr> Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 13:10:40 +0200 From: Yannis Haralambous <yannis@fluxus-virus.com> Subject: Re: Poor man's oldstyle figures cc: Felix Chang <changfkk@dds.nl>, tex-fonts <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> X-Priority: 3 In-Reply-To: <199905101031.MAA29898@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; Charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mailsmith 1.1.3 (Bluto) On 10/05/99 at 12:31, Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr (Thierry Bouche) wrote: > » why doesn't fontinst scale poor man's small caps automatically > » (by dividing xheight/capheight or \height{x} by \height{A} or > » something) > > If you want to keep the stem weight you need to scale only vertically > (or scale 90 % horizontally, 65 % vertically, e.g.). But then you > enter the dark area of font freaking, and you'll realize soon that one > trick that works in one case won't on another design. For instance, > the letter o in Futura cannot be anything else than a perfect circle, I had some very good results by downscaling a semi-bold version of the font. If you choose the right scaling factor you can get the right stroke width. but you need to open the font with some utility like Fontographer or FontLab to mesure that exactly. And this doesn't work well for serifed fonts. +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Yannis Haralambous, Ph.D. yannis@fluxus-virus.com | | http://www.fluxus-virus.com/yannis | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | 187, rue Nationale fax : +33 (0)3.20.40.28.64 | | 59800 Lille, France tél. : +33 (0)6.07.98.16.26 | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Visit the Omega home page!! http://www.ens.fr/omega | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ ...pour distinguer l'extérieur d'un aquarium, mieux vaut n'être pas poisson ...the ball I threw while playing in the park has never reached the ground 10-May-1999 11:16:16-GMT,2740;000000000000 Return-Path: <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Received: from mail-out-0.tiac.net (mail-out-0.tiac.net [199.0.65.247]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id FAA27178 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Mon, 10 May 1999 05:16:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail-out-3.tiac.net (mail-out-3.tiac.net [199.0.65.15]) by mail-out-0.tiac.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA27884; Mon, 10 May 1999 07:16:09 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from bkph@ai.mit.edu) Received: from DENALI (p45.block2.tc3.state.MA.tiac.com [206.119.31.46]) by mail-out-3.tiac.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA15003; Mon, 10 May 1999 07:16:08 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from bkph@ai.mit.edu) Message-Id: <4.2.0.37.19990510080817.00a43d70@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.37 (Beta) Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 08:16:34 -0400 To: Thierry Bouche <Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr>, Felix Chang <changfkk@dds.nl> From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Subject: Re: Poor man's oldstyle figures Cc: tex-fonts <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> In-Reply-To: <199905101031.MAA29898@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> References: <3735F093.2E7B7D6F@dds.nl> <199905011640.SAA08106@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> <3735F093.2E7B7D6F@dds.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 12:31 PM 99/05/10 +0200, Thierry Bouche wrote: >» why doesn't fontinst scale poor man's small caps automatically >» (by dividing xheight/capheight or \height{x} by \height{A} or >» something) > >If you want to keep the stem weight you need to scale only vertically >(or scale 90 % horizontally, 65 % vertically, e.g.). Right, the closest you can come to approximating smallcaps is to scale differently (less) horizontally than vertically and to not go down to x-height, but some fraction of cap-height (the "best" value of which depends on the particular font). It will, of course, not look nearly right unless you also adjust the stem widths and the side-bearings. >But then you >enter the dark area of font freaking, and you'll realize soon that one >trick that works in one case won't on another design. For instance, cmdunh10 :-) >the letter o in Futura cannot be anything else than a perfect circle, >so faking an oblique version or a non homothetical small cap will >yield something unusable (as are some Bitstream's Futura weights, >btw...). So the choice (as any default choice) is between a bad >solution that is never very bad nor very well suited, and a specific >solution that works in one case, and could be tailored for few other >cases... > >Better not using faked glyphs anyway. Amen! Regards, Berthold Horn Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu 15-May-1999 21:58:23-GMT,2033;000000000000 Return-Path: <reinhard@kammer.uni-hannover.de> Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id PAA09285 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sat, 15 May 1999 15:58:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kammer.uni-hannover.de (IDENT:root@zaphod.kammer.uni-hannover.de [130.75.139.53]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA08830 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Sat, 15 May 1999 17:58:05 -0400 Received: from milliways.kammer.uni-hannover.de.kammer.uni-hannover.de (reinhard@milliways.kammer.uni-hannover.de [130.75.139.56]) by kammer.uni-hannover.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA01402 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Sat, 15 May 1999 23:57:58 +0200 Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 23:57:57 +0200 Message-Id: <199905152157.XAA01402@kammer.uni-hannover.de> From: Reinhard Kotucha <reinhard@kammer.uni-hannover.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: bitstrea.map: ba8 X-Mailer: VM 6.37 under Emacs 20.2.1 Hi, there are two fonts with the same prefix ba8 in bitstrea.map. ba8a8ac AuroraBT-RomanCondensed BT 1027 aurorac ba8b8ac AuroraBT-BoldCondensed BT 1028 aurorabc ba8r8a News706BT-RomanC BT 0363 news706n ba8ri8a News706BT-ItalicC BT 0364 news706i ba8b8a News706BT-BoldC BT 0365 news706b typeface.map assigns "aurora" as a directory name for a8, so I think that News 706 is wrong. Both fonts are totally different. Regards, Reinhard -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reinhard Kotucha Phone: +49-511-751355 Berggartenstr. 9 D-30419 Hannover mailto:reinhard@kammer.uni-hannover.de ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Microsoft isn't the answer. Microsoft is the question, and the answer is NO. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16-May-1999 0:06:37-GMT,1223;000000000000 Return-Path: <karl@cs.umb.edu> Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id SAA11714 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sat, 15 May 1999 18:06:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cs.umb.edu (cs.umb.edu [158.121.104.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA08932 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Sat, 15 May 1999 20:06:35 -0400 Received: from hub.cs.umb.edu (hub.cs.umb.edu [158.121.104.161]) by cs.umb.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA16461; Sat, 15 May 1999 20:06:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Karl Berry <karl@cs.umb.edu> Received: (from karl@localhost) by hub.cs.umb.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA02606; Sat, 15 May 1999 20:06:29 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 20:06:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199905160006.UAA02606@hub.cs.umb.edu> To: reinhard@kammer.uni-hannover.de Cc: tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: Re: bitstrea.map: ba8 typeface.map assigns "aurora" as a directory name for a8, so I think that News 706 is wrong. Both fonts are totally different. At one point I was informed that Aurora and News 706 were the same (see bitstream.aka). Oh well. Is News 706 like Ionic, NewsGothic, or NewsPlantin? Or do we have to give up another typeface code? 18-May-1999 17:46:38-GMT,1834;000000000000 Return-Path: <Boudewijn.deBruin@student.uva.nl> Received: from mbox.wins.uva.nl (root@mbox.wins.uva.nl [146.50.16.22]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id LAA10856 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Tue, 18 May 1999 11:46:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ow58.wins.uva.nl by mbox.wins.uva.nl with ESMTP (sendmail 8.8.7/config 8.8). id TAA01895; Tue, 18 May 1999 19:46:34 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from ow58 by ow58.wins.uva.nl with SMTP (sendmail 8.8.7/config 8.8). id TAA29937; Tue, 18 May 1999 19:46:30 +0200 (MET DST) X-Organisation: Faculty of Mathematics, Computer Science, Physics & Astronomy University of Amsterdam The Netherlands X-Address: See http://www.wins.uva.nl/location Sender: debruin@wins.uva.nl Message-ID: <3741A773.D58@student.uva.nl> Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 19:46:27 +0200 From: Boudewijn de Bruin <Boudewijn.deBruin@student.uva.nl> X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4m) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu CC: boudewijn.debruin@student.uva.nl Subject: how do i get monotype fonts Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Madam/Sir: A perhaps silly question, but one to which I have nowhere found a proper answer. I would like to exploit the possibilities of the monotype walbaum (in: ftp.tex.ac.uk/tex-archive/fonts/psfonts/monotype/walbaum/) but I don't know what I have to install on my computer. I always get the message that mwbr8r.pfb cannot be found. Do you know what I do wrong? Or do you know any documentation for usage of this kind of fonts in LaTeX? Thanks in advance. Boudewijn de Bruin Boudewijn P. de Bruin Plantage Muidergracht 31 1018 TL AMSTERDAM The Netherlands phone: +31 20 4206220 email: Boudewijn.deBruin@student.uva.nl 18-May-1999 18:02:34-GMT,1633;000000000000 Return-Path: <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id MAA11454 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Tue, 18 May 1999 12:02:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from MAUI (p154.tc19a.metro.MA.tiac.com [207.60.68.155]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.3/AI2.10/ai.master.life:2.4) with ESMTP id OAA29320; Tue, 18 May 1999 14:02:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.37.19990518140113.0183bd60@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.37 (Beta) Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 14:02:24 -0400 To: Boudewijn de Bruin <Boudewijn.deBruin@student.uva.nl>, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Subject: Re: how do i get monotype fonts In-Reply-To: <3741A773.D58@student.uva.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 19:46 1999-05-18 +0200, Boudewijn de Bruin wrote: >A perhaps silly question, but one to which I have nowhere found a proper >answer. I would like to exploit the possibilities of the monotype >walbaum (in: > ftp.tex.ac.uk/tex-archive/fonts/psfonts/monotype/walbaum/) > >but I don't know what I have to install on my computer. I always get the >message that mwbr8r.pfb cannot be found. > >Do you know what I do wrong? Or do you know any documentation for usage >of this kind of fonts in LaTeX? (The actual fonts are available from MonoType). http://www.monotypeuk.com/displayvol.cfm?letter=W&volnum=711268 Regards, Berthold. Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph/bkph.html 18-May-1999 18:32:21-GMT,1840;000000000000 Return-Path: <reinhard@kammer.uni-hannover.de> Received: from kammer.uni-hannover.de (IDENT:root@zaphod.kammer.uni-hannover.de [130.75.139.53]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id MAA12496 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Tue, 18 May 1999 12:32:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from milliways.kammer.uni-hannover.de.kammer.uni-hannover.de (reinhard@milliways.kammer.uni-hannover.de [130.75.139.56]) by kammer.uni-hannover.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA02178; Tue, 18 May 1999 20:31:58 +0200 Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 20:31:57 +0200 Message-Id: <199905181831.UAA02178@kammer.uni-hannover.de> From: Reinhard Kotucha <reinhard@kammer.uni-hannover.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Boudewijn de Bruin <Boudewijn.deBruin@student.uva.nl> Cc: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: how do i get monotype fonts In-Reply-To: <3741A773.D58@student.uva.nl> References: <3741A773.D58@student.uva.nl> X-Mailer: VM 6.37 under Emacs 20.2.1 >>>>> "Boudewijn" == Boudewijn de Bruin <Boudewijn.deBruin@student.uva.nl> writes: > but I don't know what I have to install on my computer. I always > get the message that mwbr8r.pfb cannot be found. You must buy them from monotype. They are not free. The files on CTAN are additional files you need if you want to use them with TeX/LaTeX. Regards, Reinhard -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reinhard Kotucha Phone: +49-511-751355 Berggartenstr. 9 D-30419 Hannover mailto:reinhard@kammer.uni-hannover.de ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Microsoft isn't the answer. Microsoft is the question, and the answer is NO. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18-May-1999 19:24:52-GMT,1609;000000000000 Return-Path: <ats@acm.org> Received: from wugate.wustl.edu (wugate.wustl.edu [128.252.120.1]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id NAA14286 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Tue, 18 May 1999 13:24:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from acm.org (ats@nb22-pool-16.wustl.edu [128.252.113.16]) by wugate.wustl.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA01126; Tue, 18 May 1999 14:24:41 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from ats@localhost) by acm.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA26026; Tue, 18 May 1999 14:27:18 -0500 To: Boudewijn de Bruin <Boudewijn.deBruin@student.uva.nl> Cc: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu, boudewijn.debruin@student.uva.nl Subject: Re: how do i get monotype fonts References: <3741A773.D58@student.uva.nl> Mail-Copies-To: never From: Alan Shutko <ats@acm.org> Date: 18 May 1999 13:36:21 -0500 In-Reply-To: Boudewijn de Bruin's message of "Tue, 18 May 1999 19:46:27 +0200" Message-ID: <m3n1z2b4yi.fsf@hubert.wuh.wustl.edu> User-Agent: Gnus/5.070084 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.84) Emacs/20.3.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 13 Boudewijn de Bruin <Boudewijn.deBruin@student.uva.nl> writes: > but I don't know what I have to install on my computer. I always get the > message that mwbr8r.pfb cannot be found. You have to purchase that from Monotype (http://www.monotype.com). The files on CTAN are only support files which let you use the font with TeX. They don't include the font (outlines) itself. -- Alan Shutko <ats@acm.org> - Looking for a job in Long Island! Check http://rescomp.wustl.edu/~ats/ for a resume. Cats are the soul of honesty, hide not their dislikes. 20-May-1999 14:55:35-GMT,2040;000000000000 Return-Path: <karl@cs.umb.edu> Received: from cs.umb.edu (cs.umb.edu [158.121.104.2]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id IAA17627 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Thu, 20 May 1999 08:55:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hub.cs.umb.edu (hub.cs.umb.edu [158.121.104.161]) by cs.umb.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA16189; Thu, 20 May 1999 10:53:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Karl Berry <karl@cs.umb.edu> Received: (from karl@localhost) by hub.cs.umb.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA01752; Thu, 20 May 1999 10:53:34 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 10:53:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199905201453.KAA01752@hub.cs.umb.edu> To: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu CC: vvv@vvv.vsu.ru Subject: [vvv@vvv.vsu.ru: Q: typeface code for Literaturnaya] Forwarding this for discussion, I don't really understand the 8r=faked characters stuff. I did tell Vladimir I thought using the r prefix was not a good idea :). Date: 16 May 1999 17:45:54 +0400 From: Vladimir Volovich <vvv@vvv.vsu.ru> To: Karl Berry <karl@cs.umb.edu> Subject: Q: typeface code for Literaturnaya Hello, there is a Literaturnaya family of fonts (c) ParaType Inc. These fonts exist in various encodings, including latin and cyrillic. Some of these fonts are now licensed as available for free usage in TeX-related applications, so we are creating virtual fonts for Literaturnaya (in encodings T1, OT1, TS1, T2A) to put on CTAN. ... The type1 fonts distributed for free usage in TeX contain fonts which default encoding vector is almost T1, with small differences. These differences, however, lead to the desire to make font tlir8t a virtual font which refers to the `raw' type1 font. Also, as the original type1 font contains almost all accented glyphs, it is a bad idea to use 8r encoding for the raw font, because in this case a lot of glyphs will be faked instead of taken directly from type font. So, my question is: how should we name the raw font which is "almost T1-encoded"? Is the name rtlir8t (i.e. with a prefix `r') correct? Thanks. Best regards, -- Vladimir. 20-May-1999 15:39:07-GMT,1844;000000000000 Return-Path: <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id JAA19131 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Thu, 20 May 1999 09:39:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from MAUI (p240.tc19a.metro.MA.tiac.com [207.60.68.241]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.3/AI2.10/ai.master.life:2.4) with ESMTP id LAA11887; Thu, 20 May 1999 11:39:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.37.19990520113504.018181c0@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.37 (Beta) Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 11:38:59 -0400 To: Karl Berry <karl@cs.umb.edu>, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Subject: Re: [vvv@vvv.vsu.ru: Q: typeface code for Literaturnaya] Cc: vvv@vvv.vsu.ru In-Reply-To: <199905201453.KAA01752@hub.cs.umb.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:53 1999-05-20 -0400, Karl Berry wrote: >Forwarding this for discussion, I don't really understand the 8r=faked >characters stuff. I suspect the fonts he refers to have ready-made accented characters that go beyond the "standard" Western 58 in typical Type 1 fonts - which are referred to 8r. If he then used an 8r reencoded version of the fonts he is interested in, he would loose access to the other accented charcacters (perhaps things like Zdotaccent, Eogonek ?) In which case he could use as a base the font as is, if all characters appear in the encoding or some form reencoded to something that does expose everything. 8r=faked characters, I think refers to the need to built up composite characters that are not amongst the 58 in 8r (but that may very well be ready-made in his fotn). Regards, Berthold. Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph/bkph.html 20-May-1999 20:46:36-GMT,3525;000000000000 Return-Path: <vvv@vvv.vsu.ru> Received: from ns.vsu.ru (root@mail.vsu.ru [62.76.169.12]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id OAA29745 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Thu, 20 May 1999 14:46:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by ns.vsu.ru (8.9.3/8.9.3) with UUCP id AAA23846 for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Fri, 21 May 1999 00:45:05 +0400 Received: (from vvv@localhost) by vvv.vsu.ru (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA21858; Fri, 21 May 1999 00:39:02 +0400 To: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: [vvv@vvv.vsu.ru: Q: typeface code for Literaturnaya] References: <4.2.0.37.19990520113504.018181c0@mail.ai.mit.edu> From: Vladimir Volovich <vvv@vvv.vsu.ru> Date: 21 May 1999 00:39:02 +0400 In-Reply-To: "Berthold K.P. Horn"'s message of "Thu, 20 May 1999 11:38:59 -0400" Message-ID: <m3so8rxyqh.fsf@vvv.vsu.ru> Lines: 58 User-Agent: Gnus/5.070083 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.83) Emacs/20.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii "BKPH" == Berthold K P Horn writes: >> Forwarding this for discussion, I don't really understand the >> 8r=faked characters stuff. BKPH> I suspect the fonts he refers to have ready-made accented BKPH> characters that go beyond the "standard" Western 58 in typical BKPH> Type 1 fonts - which are referred to 8r. If he then used an 8r BKPH> reencoded version of the fonts he is interested in, he would BKPH> loose access to the other accented charcacters (perhaps things BKPH> like Zdotaccent, Eogonek ?) exactly :) the "almost T1 encoded" fonts include really almost all glyphs from T1, so if we will take 8r as an encoding for raw fonts, we will lose a lot of ready glyphs from type1 fonts and instead will be forced to fake them (by putting accents/descenders/etc) which seems not correct. OTOH, we'd like to add some fake glyphs like `visualspace' in the `final' T1-encoded fonts, so we need to name the raw fonts by some names. currently, i've chosen names like rtl6r8t (where `l6' is a new code for literaturnaya family just registered by K.Berry; i used `li' till now, so `raw' fonts were named rtlir8t, and real fonts were named tlir8t). the similar situation exists for `almost TS1-encoded fonts' (the situation here is worse than for T1), and for `almost iso-8859-5 encoded fonts'. in all cases we'd like to provide fonts which are more correct WRT encoding support, so we need separate names for raw fonts and for final fonts. BTW, the current version of the virtual fonts which support T2A, T1, TS1, OT1 encodings (as well as type1 fonts) could be downloaded from ftp://ftp.vsu.ru/pub/tex/literat.zip ftp://ftp.vsu.ru/pub/tex/literat-19990520.zip BKPH> In which case he could use as a base the font as is, if all BKPH> characters appear in the encoding or some form reencoded to BKPH> something that does expose everything. yes. and, as we need to also add/correct something, it is not sufficient to ReEncodeFont, but we need to use virtual fonts, and thus have separate names for raw `almost correctly encoded' fonts and for `final' fonts. i think that it is a dead idea to try to reserve an additional encoding name for these `almost correct' encodings, because there are TONS of such variants out there. BKPH> 8r=faked characters, I think refers to the need to built up BKPH> composite characters that are not amongst the 58 in 8r (but BKPH> that may very well be ready-made in his fotn). yes, thanks for understanding. :-) Best regards, -- Vladimir. -- COBOL: An exercise in Artificial Inelegance. 21-May-1999 11:44:19-GMT,1106;000000000000 Return-Path: <karl@cs.umb.edu> Received: from cs.umb.edu (cs.umb.edu [158.121.104.2]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id FAA20936 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Fri, 21 May 1999 05:44:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hub.cs.umb.edu (hub.cs.umb.edu [158.121.104.161]) by cs.umb.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA08484; Fri, 21 May 1999 07:44:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Karl Berry <karl@cs.umb.edu> Received: (from karl@localhost) by hub.cs.umb.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA12255; Fri, 21 May 1999 07:44:14 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 07:44:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199905211144.HAA12255@hub.cs.umb.edu> To: vvv@vvv.vsu.ru Cc: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: [vvv@vvv.vsu.ru: Q: typeface code for Literaturnaya] Using r is certainly wrong. It's not descriptive of anything. But if you want to do it, I'm certainly not going to stop you :). If it's a different encoding, then it should have a different abbreviation. Yes, it sucks. But what's the alternative? What is the actual encoding involved? How does it differ from T1? Can you post the encoding vector please? 21-May-1999 12:48:03-GMT,1297;000000000000 Return-Path: <Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr> Received: from ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.232.33]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id GAA22424 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Fri, 21 May 1999 06:48:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.241.5]) by ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA26054; Fri, 21 May 1999 14:46:12 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from bouche@localhost) by mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.7.6/8.6.9) id OAA22323; Fri, 21 May 1999 14:55:28 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 14:55:28 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199905211255.OAA22323@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> From: Thierry Bouche <Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr> To: Karl Berry <karl@cs.umb.edu> Cc: vvv@vvv.vsu.ru, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: [vvv@vvv.vsu.ru: Q: typeface code for Literaturnaya] In-Reply-To: <199905211144.HAA12255@hub.cs.umb.edu> References: <199905211144.HAA12255@hub.cs.umb.edu> X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII I think you have 2 alternatives. - declare a "bizarre" encoding, 8z e.g. - declare the raw font as a bizarre 8t font (but that moves the r prefix to z...) Thierry Bouche, Grenoble. 21-May-1999 20:58:17-GMT,2856;000000000000 Return-Path: <vvv@vvv.vsu.ru> Received: from ns.vsu.ru (root@ns.vsu.ru [62.76.169.12] (may be forged)) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id OAA06490 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Fri, 21 May 1999 14:58:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by ns.vsu.ru (8.9.3/8.9.3) with UUCP id AAA19087 for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Sat, 22 May 1999 00:56:32 +0400 Received: (from vvv@localhost) by vvv.vsu.ru (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA21865; Sat, 22 May 1999 00:53:03 +0400 To: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: [vvv@vvv.vsu.ru: Q: typeface code for Literaturnaya] References: <199905211144.HAA12255@hub.cs.umb.edu> From: Vladimir Volovich <vvv@vvv.vsu.ru> Date: 22 May 1999 00:53:03 +0400 In-Reply-To: Karl Berry's message of "Fri, 21 May 1999 07:44:14 -0400 (EDT)" Message-ID: <m3u2t6w3f4.fsf@vvv.vsu.ru> Lines: 48 User-Agent: Gnus/5.070083 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.83) Emacs/20.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii "KB" == Karl Berry writes: KB> Using r is certainly wrong. It's not descriptive of anything. KB> But if you want to do it, I'm certainly not going to stop you :). i want to do the thing right, of course. KB> If it's a different encoding, then it should have a different KB> abbreviation. Yes, it sucks. But what's the alternative? i don't know, that's why i ask :) okay, then if the only alternative here is to use different encoding, then how i should name them? should they be different for each and every non-standard variant (there are a LOT of such fonts with some variants/bugs in encodings)? (it is a general question) and what should i do in this particular case? KB> What is the actual encoding involved? How does it differ from KB> T1? Can you post the encoding vector please? the differences are: * grave has the code 23 (instead of 0; 0 is absent in the font) * glyph with code 32 is not visualspace but a "plain" space * there are no compworkmark (23), perthousandzero (24), dotlessj (26), Ng (141), ng (173) * some glyphs are named incorrectly (!) (btw: i just noticed that in cork.enc the glyph #180 is named tquoteright instead of tcaron. is it a typo? please check this glyph name in the "master copy" of cork.enc). the differences are small, and could be made even smaller by the ReEncodeFont facility; but we'd like to add at least a faked visualspace and black rules (with warning specials) in places of missed glyphs. because of this, we need to name a `raw font' differently than the `final' virtual font, and we do not want to use `8r' intermediate encoding because we will loose a lot of ready accented glyphs and will need to fake them. that's why the question: how to name the raw font? :) Best regards, -- Vladimir. -- Our business in life is not to succeed but to continue to fail in high spirits. -- Robert Louis Stevenson 22-May-1999 0:24:07-GMT,1213;000000000000 Return-Path: <karl@cs.umb.edu> Received: from cs.umb.edu (cs.umb.edu [158.121.104.2]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id SAA11839 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Fri, 21 May 1999 18:24:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hub.cs.umb.edu (hub.cs.umb.edu [158.121.104.161]) by cs.umb.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA24795; Fri, 21 May 1999 20:24:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Karl Berry <karl@cs.umb.edu> Received: (from karl@localhost) by hub.cs.umb.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA24426; Fri, 21 May 1999 20:23:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 20:23:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199905220023.UAA24426@hub.cs.umb.edu> To: vvv@vvv.vsu.ru Cc: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: [vvv@vvv.vsu.ru: Q: typeface code for Literaturnaya] (there are a LOT of such fonts with some variants/bugs in encodings)? How many is a lot? 10, 20, 50? If it's not feasible to name them individually, then I think 8z is the way to go. encoding because we will loose a lot of ready accented glyphs and will need to fake them. that's why the question: how to name the raw font? :) There are some spots left in 8r. Maybe we should add those additional preaccented glyphs to 8r. How many are there? 23-May-1999 2:47:59-GMT,5187;000000000000 Return-Path: <bretu213@mindspring.com> Received: from ns.bigbear.net (lai-ca3-60.ix.netcom.com [209.110.240.60]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id UAA15936; Sat, 22 May 1999 20:47:49 -0600 (MDT) From: bretu213@mindspring.com Message-Id: <199905230247.UAA15936@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 16:19:50 Subject: Homeworkers Needed ! Dear Future Associate, You Can Work At Home & Set Your Own Hours. Start earning Big Money in a short time NO Newspaper Advertising! Your job will be to stuff and mail envelopes for our company. 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Cash and Money Orders will result in faster shipping of your package. 29-May-1999 14:33:48-GMT,1202;000000000000 Return-Path: <C.A.Rowley@open.ac.uk> Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id IAA06737 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sat, 29 May 1999 08:33:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Local (Mailer 3.01) with ESMTP; Sat, 29 May 1999 15:33:48 +0100 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA16125; Sat, 29 May 1999 15:33:34 +0100 (BST) From: Chris Rowley <C.A.Rowley@open.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 15:33:33 +0100 (BST) To: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: Adobe and the whole world??? In-Reply-To: <m3so8rxyqh.fsf@vvv.vsu.ru> References: <4.2.0.37.19990520113504.018181c0@mail.ai.mit.edu> <m3so8rxyqh.fsf@vvv.vsu.ru> X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <14159.63923.909271.590162@fell.open.ac.uk> >From "About Adobe PostScript 3" PlanetReady(TM) font handling Please can someone quickly tell me if this is: just a trendy name for some hyped-up well-known stuff; something worth further investigation. Thanks chris 29-May-1999 15:59:39-GMT,10762;000000000000 Return-Path: <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Received: from mail-out-0.tiac.net (mail-out-0.tiac.net [199.0.65.247]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id JAA08543 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sat, 29 May 1999 09:59:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from posterchild1.tiac.net (posterchild1.tiac.net [199.0.65.72]) by mail-out-0.tiac.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA22841; Sat, 29 May 1999 11:59:33 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from bkph@ai.mit.edu) Received: from Y-9W4ZXVHWLQKOV (p117.tc1.metro.MA.tiac.com [209.61.75.118]) by posterchild1.tiac.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA11490; Sat, 29 May 1999 15:59:31 GMT Message-Id: <4.2.0.56.19990529113223.00a65360@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.56 (Beta) Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 11:56:37 -0400 To: Chris Rowley <C.A.Rowley@open.ac.uk>, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Subject: Re: Adobe and the whole world??? In-Reply-To: <14159.63923.909271.590162@fell.open.ac.uk> References: <m3so8rxyqh.fsf@vvv.vsu.ru> <4.2.0.37.19990520113504.018181c0@mail.ai.mit.edu> <m3so8rxyqh.fsf@vvv.vsu.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_21445140==_.ALT" --=====================_21445140==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 03:33 PM 5/29/99 +0100, Chris Rowley wrote: > >From "About Adobe PostScript 3" > > PlanetReady(TM) font handling > >Please can someone quickly tell me if this is: > > just a trendy name for some hyped-up well-known stuff; > > something worth further investigation. They seem to be mostly referring to support for two-byte fonts using CID keys and cmaps, and support for fonts that need more complex support (ligaturing) available in OpenType (which includes CFF format and Type 2). Under this umbrella also apparently falls Unicode support at least in Windows NT/W2K where Unicode is actually supported (but that printer driver appears not to be out yet). They variously refer to new printer drivers, new fonts, and applications and operating systems. Somewhat ill-delimited. Not unusual for company hype. But the term is a registered trademark! So they must have thought it worth the $245 application fee (and the thousands for their lawyers to take a break from two-Martini lunches at the golf club to fill in the form). http://www.adobe.com/prodindex/postscript/capabilities.html Regards, Berthold. ===================================================== And, with PlanetReady (TM) Printing, Adobe ensures that Adobe PostScript 3 is delivered in the broadest range of printing systems available worldwide by securing support from leading application software products and integration with key operating systems. PlanetReady Printing Adobe PostScript 3 provides users worldwide with access to its printing solution. With full support of inter-national font requirements via a new font technology, support from leading creative application software titles, support for localized printing anywhere in the world through enhanced drivers, Adobe PostScript 3 is poised to immediately enhance the printing experience for users worldwide. PlanetReady ™ Printer driver available Mac 8.5.1 Windows 95 4.2.3 Windows NT 5.0 Full font support for Roman, Asian, and Cyrillic in ten languages. fonts. Full support for international printing needs. – for Roman markets – for Asian markets PlanetReady printing Adobe PostScript 3 is PlanetReady for Roman and Asian languages. Instead of buying localized, proprietary devices, international companies can now establish a single printing technology standard worldwide. Adobe PostScript 3 is designed to handle double-byte fonts—such as Asian characters—at the core level. Printer drivers are fully optimized in all relevant languages, including English, French, Italian, German, Spanish, Portuguese, Brazilian Portuguese, Japanese, Korean, and simplified and traditional Chinese. In addition, Adobe PostScript 3 supports Eastern European and Asian language characters, commonly known as Cyrillic fonts. PlanetReady Printing Adobe PostScript 3 provides users worldwide with access to its printing solution. With full support of inter-national font requirements via a new font technology, support from leading creative application software titles, and support for localized printing anywhere in the world through enhanced drivers, Adobe PostScript 3 is poised to immediately enhance the printing experience for users worldwide. • PlanetReady Printing. With this feature, Adobe ensures that Adobe PostScript 3 technology is a complete printing solution with support by leading application software products, integration with key operating systems, and the capability to deliver documents to the broadest range of printing systems available worldwide. PlanetReady(TM) printing - Adobe PostScript 3 printing systems are designed to provide full support for international printing needs, making it easy for international corporations to set establish a single printing technology standard worldwide. The standard fonts include support for eastern and Central European language requirements. AdobePS(TM) printer drivers are available in a wide variety of languages to support high quality printing of both Roman and Asian fonts and documents worldwide. Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu --=====================_21445140==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit <html> At 03:33 PM 5/29/99 +0100, Chris Rowley wrote:<br> <blockquote type=cite cite>>From "About Adobe PostScript 3"<br> <br>   PlanetReady(TM) font handling<br> <br> Please can someone quickly tell me if this is:<br> <br>   just a trendy name for some hyped-up well-known stuff;<br> <br>   something worth further investigation.</blockquote><br> They seem to be mostly referring to support for two-byte fonts using CID keys and cmaps,<br> and  support for fonts that need more complex support (ligaturing) available in OpenType <br> (which includes CFF format and Type 2).  Under this umbrella also apparently falls <br> Unicode support at least in Windows NT/W2K where Unicode is actually supported<br> (but that printer driver appears not to be out yet).<br> <br> They variously refer to new printer drivers, new fonts, and applications and operating<br> systems.  Somewhat ill-delimited.  Not unusual for company hype.  But the term is<br> a registered trademark!  So they must have thought it worth the $245 application fee<br> (and the thousands for their lawyers to take a break from two-Martini lunches<br> at the golf club to fill in the form).<br> <br> <a href="http://www.adobe.com/prodindex/postscript/capabilities.html" eudora="autourl">http://www.adobe.com/prodindex/postscript/capabilities.html</a><br> <br> Regards, Berthold.<br> <br> =====================================================<br> <br> And, with PlanetReady (TM) Printing, Adobe ensures that Adobe PostScript 3<br> is delivered in the broadest range of printing systems available worldwide <br> by securing support from leading application software products and <br> integration with key operating systems.<br> <br> PlanetReady Printing<br> <br> Adobe PostScript 3 provides users worldwide with access to its printing<br> solution. With full support of inter-national font requirements via a new font<br> technology, support from leading creative application software titles,<br> support for localized printing anywhere in the world through enhanced<br> drivers, Adobe PostScript 3 is poised to immediately enhance the printing<br> experience for users worldwide.<br> <br> <font face="Lucida Sans Unicode">PlanetReady ™ Printer driver available </font><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode">Mac 8.5.1 Windows 95 4.2.3 Windows NT 5.0<br> </font><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode">Full font support for Roman, Asian, and Cyrillic in ten languages. fonts.<br> Full support for international printing needs.<br> <x-tab>        </x-tab>– for Roman markets – for Asian markets<br> <br> </font><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode">PlanetReady printing<br> <br> </font><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode">Adobe PostScript 3 is PlanetReady for Roman and Asian languages. Instead of <br> buying localized, proprietary devices, international companies can now establish <br> a single printing technology standard worldwide. Adobe PostScript 3 is designed <br> to handle double-byte fonts—such as Asian characters—at the core level. Printer drivers<br> are fully optimized in all relevant languages, including English, French, Italian, German, <br> Spanish, Portuguese, Brazilian Portuguese, Japanese, Korean, and simplified and<br> traditional Chinese. In addition, Adobe PostScript 3 supports Eastern European and <br> Asian language characters, commonly known as Cyrillic fonts.<br> <br> </font><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode">PlanetReady Printing<br> <br> </font><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode">Adobe PostScript 3 provides users worldwide with access to its printing solution. <br> With full support of inter-national font requirements via a new font technology, <br> support from leading creative application software titles, and support for localized <br> printing anywhere in the world through enhanced drivers, Adobe PostScript 3 is <br> poised to immediately enhance the printing experience for users worldwide. <br> <br> </font>• PlanetReady Printing. <br> <br> With this feature, Adobe ensures that Adobe PostScript 3 technology is a complete<br> printing solution with support by leading application software products, integration <br> with key operating systems, and the capability to deliver documents to the broadest <br> range of printing systems available worldwide. <br> <br> PlanetReady(TM) printing - Adobe PostScript 3 printing systems are designed <br> to provide full support for international printing needs, making it easy for <br> international  corporations to set establish a single printing technology <br> standard worldwide. The standard fonts include support for eastern and <br> Central European language requirements. AdobePS(TM) printer drivers are <br> available in a wide variety of languages to support high quality printing of <br> both Roman and Asian fonts and documents worldwide. <br> <br> <br> <div>Berthold K.P. Horn<x-tab>      </x-tab><x-tab>        </x-tab><a href="mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu" EUDORA=AUTOURL>mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu</a></div> </html> --=====================_21445140==_.ALT-- 2-Jun-1999 15:16:08-GMT,1573;000000000000 Return-Path: <fqgouvea@colby.edu> Received: from tug.org (tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id JAA16090 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 09:16:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host-09.colby.edu (IDENT:0@host-09.colby.edu [137.146.210.42]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA04978 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 11:16:06 -0400 Received: from ppp-17 (ppp-17.termserv-1.network.colby.edu [137.146.114.17]) by host-09.colby.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/Colby-Hub/1.40) with SMTP id LAA17905 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 11:15:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37554A8B.5C5D@colby.edu> Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 11:15:23 -0400 From: "Fernando Q. Gouvea" <fqgouvea@colby.edu> Organization: Colby College, Department of Mathematics X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (OS/2; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: Centaur Festive Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Viruscheck: Virus Scan Ok: LAA17905 I'm looking for a TeX fontname for Monotype's CentaurFestiveMT-Italic. The Monotype file name for this is ctrfe___.*. This doesn't seem to be on the standard Fontname list. Thanks, Fernando -- Fernando Q. Gouvea Chair, Dept. of Math & CS Editor, MAA Online Colby College http://www.maa.org fqgouvea@colby.edu http://www.colby.edu/math ========================================================== Military intelligence is a contradiction in terms. -- Groucho Marx 2-Jun-1999 21:58:46-GMT,1166;000000000000 Return-Path: <karl@cs.umb.edu> Received: from tug.org (tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id PAA28021 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 15:58:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cs.umb.edu (cs.umb.edu [158.121.104.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA05560 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 17:58:45 -0400 Received: from hub.cs.umb.edu (hub.cs.umb.edu [158.121.104.161]) by cs.umb.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA04583; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 17:58:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Karl Berry <karl@cs.umb.edu> Received: (from karl@localhost) by hub.cs.umb.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA13811; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 17:58:38 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 17:58:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199906022158.RAA13811@hub.cs.umb.edu> To: fqgouvea@colby.edu Cc: tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: Re: Centaur Festive I'm looking for a TeX fontname for Monotype's CentaurFestiveMT-Italic. What does it look like? Can you look at the variant list (http://tug.org/fontname/variant.map) and see which variant we might be able to shove `Festive' into? Somehow Centaur and `festive' do not exactly go together in my mind :). 5-Jun-1999 23:24:09-GMT,1332;000000000000 Return-Path: <ats@acm.org> Received: from wugate.wustl.edu (wugate.wustl.edu [128.252.120.1]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA20696 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 17:24:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from acm.org (ats@nb22-pool-1.wustl.edu [128.252.113.11]) by wugate.wustl.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA15434 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 18:24:06 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from ats@localhost) by acm.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA26658; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 18:24:02 -0500 To: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: Using proper inferior and superior characters Mail-Copies-To: never From: Alan Shutko <ats@acm.org> Date: 05 Jun 1999 17:00:27 -0500 In-Reply-To: "Berthold K.P. Horn"'s message of "Sat, 29 May 1999 11:56:37 -0400" Message-ID: <m3emjqz4sk.fsf_-_@hubert.wuh.wustl.edu> User-Agent: Gnus/5.070084 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.84) Emacs/20.3.10 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 8 I have inferior and superior digits in the Spectrum expert set. I'd like to use them for superscripted and subscripted humbers (for instance, footnote numbers). What's the best way to do this? -- Alan Shutko <ats@acm.org> - Looking for a job in Long Island! Check http://rescomp.wustl.edu/~ats/ for a resume. Never sleep with anyone crazier than yourself. 6-Jun-1999 13:20:22-GMT,1450;000000000000 Return-Path: <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA08215 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 07:20:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from MAURITIUS (maui.ai.mit.edu [128.52.37.105]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.3/AI2.10/ai.master.life:2.4) with ESMTP id JAA21425; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 09:20:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.56.19990606090733.00a42a30@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.56 (Beta) Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 09:20:37 -0400 To: Alan Shutko <ats@acm.org>, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Subject: Re: Using proper inferior and superior characters In-Reply-To: <m3emjqz4sk.fsf_-_@hubert.wuh.wustl.edu> References: <"Berthold K.P. Horn"'s message of "Sat, 29 May 1999 11:56:37 -0400"> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 05:00 PM 6/5/99 -0500, Alan Shutko wrote: >I have inferior and superior digits in the Spectrum expert set. I'd >like to use them for superscripted and subscripted humbers (for >instance, footnote numbers). What's the best way to do this? Part of the answer is \textonesuperior, \texttwosuperior, \textthreesuperior, --- if the encoding you are using permits this. Regards, Berthold. Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph/bkph.html 6-Jun-1999 16:02:33-GMT,1864;000000000000 Return-Path: <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> Received: from mail.arcor-ip.de (mail-ffm-p.arcor-ip.de [145.253.2.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11628 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 10:02:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from nbg-145-253-67-160.arcor-ip.net (145.253.67.160) by mail.arcor-ip.de; 6 Jun 1999 18:02:00 +0200 Message-ID: <375a9b7a3755416a@mail.arcor-ip.de> (added by mail.arcor-ip.de) From: "Walter Schmidt" <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> To: "Sebastian Rahtz" <sebastian.rahtz@oucs.ox.ac.uk>, "tex-fonts" <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 17:52:18 +0200 (MSZ) Reply-To: "Walter Schmidt" <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail/2 PMMail 2.00.1500 for OS/2 Warp 4.00 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: fontinst 1.800 vs 1.801 Installing Adobe Helvetica using the \latinfamily command from fontinst 1.801 gives me tfm's which differ from those distributed in the CTAN file lw35nfss.zip, made through fontinst 1.800. This affects, however, the 8r and the Adobe-encoded tfm's only: phvb8a.tfm phvb8an.tfm phvb8r.tfm phvb8rn.tfm phvbo8a.tfm phvbo8an.tfm phvbo8r.tfm phvbo8rn.tfm phvr8a.tfm phvr8an.tfm phvr8r.tfm phvr8rn.tfm phvro8a.tfm phvro8an.tfm phvro8r.tfm phvro8rn.tfm The "final"*8t, *8c and *7t fonts are identical. Is this something to worry about? TIA Walter ********************************************************************* Walter Schmidt <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> Schornbaumstrasse 2, 91052 Erlangen, Germany pgp key (0xB3F3ACED, 1024 bit, DSS): see <http://wwwkeys.de.pgp.net> key fingerprint: CEE3 0783 8468 4B7F 1054 1543 83AD 20A5 B3F3 ACED ********************************************************************* ... life is too short to learn emacs 6-Jun-1999 21:35:43-GMT,1913;000000000000 Return-Path: <sebastian.rahtz@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> Received: from oxmail.ox.ac.uk (oxmail3.ox.ac.uk [163.1.2.9]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19108 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 15:35:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ermine.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.2.13]) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #1) id 10qkZw-0003sm-00; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 22:35:40 +0100 Received: from max4.public.ox.ac.uk ([192.76.27.4] helo=ogre ident=rahtz) by ermine.ox.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10qkZw-00071L-00; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 22:35:40 +0100 X-Mailer: 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid (via feedmail 8 Q); VM 6.71 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid From: "Sebastian Rahtz" <sebastian.rahtz@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14170.59042.442825.12904@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 22:22:42 +0100 (BST) To: walter.schmidt@arcormail.de Cc: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: fontinst 1.800 vs 1.801 In-Reply-To: <375a9b7a3755416a@mail.arcor-ip.de> References: <375a9b7a3755416a@mail.arcor-ip.de> Walter Schmidt writes: > Installing Adobe Helvetica using the \latinfamily command from > fontinst 1.801 gives me tfm's which differ from those distributed > in the CTAN file lw35nfss.zip, made through fontinst 1.800. > This affects, however, the 8r and the Adobe-encoded tfm's only: > .. > The "final"*8t, *8c and *7t fonts are identical. Is this > something to worry about? > you do realize that there is a nonsensical historical artefact in that we preserve eg "phvr.tfm" for compatibility with afm2tfm-created things? I haven't followed up the details, but I do know that some metrics are still created with afm2tfm. I may be entirely off track, but maybe this is related? I should check tomorrow, I guess. anyway, *how* different? sebastian 7-Jun-1999 12:42:05-GMT,1394;000000000000 Return-Path: <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Received: from mail-out-0.tiac.net (mail-out-0.tiac.net [199.0.65.247]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA09512 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 06:42:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail-out-1.tiac.net (mail-out-1.tiac.net [199.0.65.12]) by mail-out-0.tiac.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA20434 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 08:42:02 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from bkph@ai.mit.edu) Received: from Y-9W4ZXVHWLQKOV (p14.tc2.state.MA.tiac.com [207.60.242.15]) by mail-out-1.tiac.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA19827 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 08:45:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.56.19990607083911.0221cfe8@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.56 (Beta) Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 08:41:06 -0400 To: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Subject: sorry about the message Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I apologize for sending the email not just to David, but the whole list. No, I did not hit "Reply to all" by mistake. This is a new misfeature of Eudora, where ^K copies the return address of an email message to the address book, but stupidly it copies *all* addresses... Sorry about that, Berthold. Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu 7-Jun-1999 15:55:18-GMT,1344;000000000000 Return-Path: <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> Received: from mail.arcor-ip.de (mail-ffm-p.arcor-ip.de [145.253.2.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA15233 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 09:55:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from nbg-145-253-67-168.arcor-ip.net (145.253.67.168) by mail.arcor-ip.de; 7 Jun 1999 17:54:45 +0200 Message-ID: <375beb46375c09e9@mail.arcor-ip.de> (added by mail.arcor-ip.de) From: "Walter Schmidt" <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> To: "Sebastian Rahtz" <sebastian.rahtz@oucs.ox.ac.uk>, "tex-fonts" <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 17:53:42 +0200 (MSZ) Reply-To: "Walter Schmidt" <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail/2 PMMail 2.00.1500 for OS/2 Warp 4.00 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: fontinst 1.800 vs 1.801 Hi, just some additions to what I wrote yesterday: As to the tfm's for the 8r encoding, I have clearly found out, that fontinst 1.801 produces tfm's which differ from those found on CTAN (lw35nfss.zip), which were, AFAIK, made using v1.800. What's wrong here? (As to the 8a encoded fonts, I wrote nonsense: There are no tfm's for 8a in lw35nfss.zip. Sorry!) TIA Walter PS: I had some email problems from sunday until now. 7-Jun-1999 16:19:10-GMT,1795;000000000000 Return-Path: <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Received: from mail-out-0.tiac.net (mail-out-0.tiac.net [199.0.65.247]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16059 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 10:19:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail-out-3.tiac.net (mail-out-3.tiac.net [199.0.65.15]) by mail-out-0.tiac.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA11039; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 12:19:09 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from bkph@ai.mit.edu) Received: from Y-9W4ZXVHWLQKOV (p58.tc8.metro.MA.tiac.com [209.61.76.187]) by mail-out-3.tiac.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA06260; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 12:19:04 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from bkph@ai.mit.edu) Message-Id: <4.2.0.56.19990607121638.019c1b18@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.56 (Beta) Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 12:18:09 -0400 To: "Walter Schmidt" <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de>, "Sebastian Rahtz" <sebastian.rahtz@oucs.ox.ac.uk>, "tex-fonts" <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Subject: Re: fontinst 1.800 vs 1.801 In-Reply-To: <375beb46375c09e9@mail.arcor-ip.de> (added by mail.arcor-ip.de) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 05:53 PM 6/7/99 +0200, Walter Schmidt wrote: >just some additions to what I wrote yesterday: > >As to the tfm's for the 8r encoding, I have clearly found out, >that fontinst 1.801 produces tfm's which differ from those found >on CTAN (lw35nfss.zip), which were, AFAIK, made using v1.800. > >What's wrong here? Could you pass the two TFMs through TFtoPL to see what is different? It may very well be something totally benign. Or email me two such files and I'll pass them through TFMtoAFM... Regards, Berthold. Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu 7-Jun-1999 16:33:20-GMT,1278;000000000000 Return-Path: <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> Received: from mail.arcor-ip.de (mail-ffm-p.arcor-ip.de [145.253.2.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16466 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 10:33:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from nbg-145-253-67-161.arcor-ip.net (145.253.67.161) by mail.arcor-ip.de; 7 Jun 1999 18:32:48 +0200 Message-ID: <375bf431375c1bc1@mail.arcor-ip.de> (added by mail.arcor-ip.de) From: "Walter Schmidt" <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> To: "Sebastian Rahtz" <sebastian.rahtz@oucs.ox.ac.uk>, "tex-fonts" <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 18:31:50 +0200 (MSZ) Reply-To: "Walter Schmidt" <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail/2 PMMail 2.00.1500 for OS/2 Warp 4.00 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: fontinst 1.801 -- still worse Now I am totally puzzled about fontinst: I get totally different tfm's for the 8r encoding when 1) executing the \latinfamily command or 2) creating manually the metrics for the 8r encoding only, e.g. \installfonts \transformfont{phvr8r}{\reencodefont{8r}{\fromafm{phvr8a}}} \endinstallfonts Am I just too stupid? Thank you in advance for any help Walter 7-Jun-1999 16:34:59-GMT,1185;000000000000 Return-Path: <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> Received: from mail.arcor-ip.de (mail-ffm-p.arcor-ip.de [145.253.2.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16545 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 10:34:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from nbg-145-253-67-161.arcor-ip.net (145.253.67.161) by mail.arcor-ip.de; 7 Jun 1999 18:34:27 +0200 Message-ID: <375bf494375c1c2a@mail.arcor-ip.de> (added by mail.arcor-ip.de) From: "Walter Schmidt" <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> To: "Berthold K.P. Horn" <bkph@ai.mit.edu>, "Sebastian Rahtz" <sebastian.rahtz@oucs.ox.ac.uk>, "tex-fonts" <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 18:34:23 +0200 (MSZ) Reply-To: "Walter Schmidt" <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail/2 PMMail 2.00.1500 for OS/2 Warp 4.00 In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.56.19990607121638.019c1b18@mail.ai.mit.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: fontinst 1.800 vs 1.801 On Mon, 07 Jun 1999 12:18:09 -0400, Berthold K.P. Horn wrote: >Could you pass the two TFMs through TFtoPL to see what is different? the checksum only Walter 7-Jun-1999 18:14:47-GMT,2404;000000000000 Return-Path: <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Received: from mail-out-0.tiac.net (mail-out-0.tiac.net [199.0.65.247]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA19964 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 12:14:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail-out-1.tiac.net (mail-out-1.tiac.net [199.0.65.12]) by mail-out-0.tiac.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA19233; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 14:14:40 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from bkph@ai.mit.edu) Received: from Y-9W4ZXVHWLQKOV (p24.block1.tc6.state.MA.tiac.com [207.60.185.25]) by mail-out-1.tiac.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA09741; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 14:17:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.56.19990607140846.019626b0@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.56 (Beta) Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 14:13:43 -0400 To: "Walter Schmidt" <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de>, "Sebastian Rahtz" <sebastian.rahtz@oucs.ox.ac.uk>, "tex-fonts" <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Subject: Re: fontinst 1.800 vs 1.801 In-Reply-To: <375bf494375c1c2a@mail.arcor-ip.de> (added by mail.arcor-ip.de) References: <4.2.0.56.19990607121638.019c1b18@mail.ai.mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 06:34 PM 6/7/99 +0200, Walter Schmidt wrote: >On Mon, 07 Jun 1999 12:18:09 -0400, Berthold K.P. Horn wrote: > > >Could you pass the two TFMs through TFtoPL to see what is different? > >the checksum only Oh :-) Nema Problema! The checksum as implemented at the moment is basically useless. The are 32 bits there that give you just *one* bit of information: the checksum does not match or it does match. And even that one bit is not trustworthy --- if it doesn't match it isn't clear what it means. Does it mean the checksum algorithm has changed? Can it be ignored? A much better use for the checksum is to hide information about the font, the font encoding in particular. That way you can later figure out why things don't work. And instead of saying "checksum mismatch" which says next to nothing --- it can say things like: the DVI calls for this font with LY1 encoding, but the TFM file used by DVIPS is set up for 8r encoding". Of course DVIPS shouldn't be referring to TFM files in the first place, but that is the beginning of another sermon :-) Regards, Berthold. Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu 7-Jun-1999 19:52:52-GMT,1534;000000000000 Return-Path: <sebastian.rahtz@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> Received: from oxmail.ox.ac.uk (oxmail3.ox.ac.uk [163.1.2.9]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA22917 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 13:52:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ermine.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.2.13]) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #1) id 10r5Ru-00046L-00; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 20:52:46 +0100 Received: from max60.public.ox.ac.uk ([192.76.27.60] helo=ogre ident=rahtz) by ermine.ox.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10r5Rt-00041T-00; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 20:52:45 +0100 X-Mailer: 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid (via feedmail 8 Q); VM 6.71 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid From: "Sebastian Rahtz" <sebastian.rahtz@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14172.5813.488581.536832@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 20:00:05 +0100 (BST) To: walter.schmidt@arcormail.de Cc: bkph@ai.mit.edu, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: fontinst 1.800 vs 1.801 In-Reply-To: <375bf494375c1c2a@mail.arcor-ip.de> References: <4.2.0.56.19990607121638.019c1b18@mail.ai.mit.edu> <375bf494375c1c2a@mail.arcor-ip.de> Walter Schmidt writes: > On Mon, 07 Jun 1999 12:18:09 -0400, Berthold K.P. Horn wrote: > > >Could you pass the two TFMs through TFtoPL to see what is different? > > the checksum only > fontinst doesnt make checksums, does it?? unless I have gone to sleep, you have to add checksums manually sebastian 7-Jun-1999 19:58:41-GMT,1996;000000000000 Return-Path: <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> Received: from mail.arcor-ip.de (mail-ffm-p.arcor-ip.de [145.253.2.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23118 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 13:58:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from nbg-145-253-67-209.arcor-ip.net (145.253.67.209) by mail.arcor-ip.de; 7 Jun 1999 21:58:09 +0200 Message-ID: <375c2452375c5916@mail.arcor-ip.de> (added by mail.arcor-ip.de) From: "Walter Schmidt" <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> To: "tex-fonts" <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu>, "Ulrik Vieth" <ulrik.vieth@bluewin.de> Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 21:56:28 +0200 (MSZ) Reply-To: "Walter Schmidt" <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail/2 PMMail 2.00.1500 for OS/2 Warp 4.00 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: fontinst 1.801 -- still worse On Mon, 7 Jun 1999 20:24:15 +0200 (CEST), Ulrik Vieth wrote: >\transfromfont{phvr8r} writes out phvr8r.mtx and a raw phvr8r.pl > >\installrawfont{phvr8r} writes out a ligfull phvr8r.pl including >the special TeX-specific ligatures specified in 8r.etx, i.e. things >like using -- for endash,`` for quotedblleft, `! for exclamdown, etc. Thank you very much for this clear explanation. :-)) There is, however, a minor problem: Faked math fonts may internally be made up from 8r fonts, e.g. the sources of my mathpple fonts have: \transformfont{pplr8r} {\reencodefont{8r}{\fromafm{pplr8a}}} ... \installfont{zppler7t} {pplr8r,gceurm10,latin,unsetppl,kernoff,cmr10 scaled 1042} {OT1}{OT1}{zpple}{m}{n}{} It was reported to me that a dvi file using such vf's would trigger a problem with DVItoMP, most probably because a different pplr8r (the ligfull one) with a different checksum was "known" (?) to DVItoMP: >dvitomp XX.dvi XX.mpx >DVItoMP warning: Checksum mismatch for pplr8r I have developed the the mathpple fonts, so I have to ask: What can I do about this? TIA Walter 8-Jun-1999 12:23:50-GMT,3211;000000000000 Return-Path: <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> Received: from mail.arcor-ip.de (mail-ffm-p.arcor-ip.de [145.253.2.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA17409 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 06:23:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from nbg-145-253-67-169.arcor-ip.net (145.253.67.169) by mail.arcor-ip.de; 8 Jun 1999 14:23:18 +0200 Message-ID: <375d0b37375cd543@mail.arcor-ip.de> (added by mail.arcor-ip.de) From: "Walter Schmidt" <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> To: "tex-fonts" <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> Cc: "Sebastian Rahtz" <sebastian.rahtz@oucs.ox.ac.uk>, "Ulrik Vieth" <ulrik.vieth@bluewin.de> Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 14:22:25 +0200 (MSZ) Reply-To: "Walter Schmidt" <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail/2 PMMail 2.00.1500 for OS/2 Warp 4.00 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: fontinst 1.801 -- still worse On Mon, 7 Jun 1999 23:45:03 +0200 (CEST), Ulrik Vieth wrote: >I guess this means we'll all have to be carefull about putting >\installrawfont commands after every \transformfont into mathpple, >mathptm and mathptmx, so as to avoid checksum problems. Sigh! > >Is this really true? I agree: Doing so should theoretically fix the problem. I see also an alternative way, which should ensure consistent checksums with less effort: The fontinst script for mathptmx starts with: \transformfont{ptmr8r} {\reencodefont{8r}{\fromafm{ptmr8a}}} \transformfont{ptmri8r}{\reencodefont{8r}{\fromafm{ptmri8a}}} \transformfont{psyro} {\slantfont{167}{\fromafm{psyr}}} Instead of creating ptmr8r, ptmri8r and psyr again from the afm's, we could take the tfm's found under fonts/tfm/..., convert them back to .pl, and use these. This makes sure that the faked math fonts always refer to the same "real" fonts as TeX does. There is however a second problem which seems more serious to me: I have examined the .vpl files generated from fontinst, and I have found that there are no checksum entries for the "real" fonts they refer to. (Well, that's just what Sebastian already said.) When I create a .vf from such a .vpl, my vptovf 1.4 does apparenty either NOT add any checksum entries at all or adds wrong ones. I can check this by running vftovp: [E:\usr\wrk\fontinst\mathptmx1]vftovp zptmcm7t This is VFtoVP, Version 1.2 [1d] MAPFONT 0: psyr at 10pt Check sum in VF file being replaced by TFM check sum MAPFONT 1: ptmr8r at 10pt Check sum in VF file being replaced by TFM check sum MAPFONT 2: cmr10 at 10pt Check sum in VF file being replaced by TFM check sum When I run the resulting vpl through vptovf again, the correct checksums are written to the vf. Is this a problem with my vptovf 1.4 only? Greetings Walter ********************************************************************* Walter Schmidt Schornbaumstrasse 2 <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> 91052 Erlangen, Germany pgp key (0xB3F3ACED, 1024 bit, DSS): see <http://wwwkeys.de.pgp.net> key fingerprint: CEE3 0783 8468 4B7F 1054 1543 83AD 20A5 B3F3 ACED ********************************************************************* 8-Jun-1999 15:40:37-GMT,2662;000000000000 Return-Path: <Lars.Hellstrom@math.umu.se> Received: from abel.math.umu.se (abel.math.umu.se [130.239.20.139]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22860 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 09:40:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [130.239.20.144] (mac144.math.umu.se [130.239.20.144]) by abel.math.umu.se (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id RAA26738; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 17:32:40 +0200 (CEST) X-Sender: lars@abel.math.umu.se Message-Id: <l03130300b382e6dd66bc@[130.239.20.144]> In-Reply-To: <375d0b37375cd543@mail.arcor-ip.de> (added by mail.arcor-ip.de) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 17:40:23 +0200 To: "Walter Schmidt" <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> From: Lars =?iso-8859-1?Q?Hellstr=F6m?= <Lars.Hellstrom@math.umu.se> Subject: Re: fontinst 1.801 -- still worse Cc: TeX-fonts list <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by csc-sun.math.utah.edu id JAA22861 Walter Schmidt wrote: >On Mon, 7 Jun 1999 23:45:03 +0200 (CEST), Ulrik Vieth wrote: > >>I guess this means we'll all have to be carefull about putting >>\installrawfont commands after every \transformfont into mathpple, >>mathptm and mathptmx, so as to avoid checksum problems. Sigh! >> >>Is this really true? > >I agree: Doing so should theoretically fix the problem. > >I see also an alternative way, which should ensure consistent >checksums with less effort: > >The fontinst script for mathptmx starts with: > >\transformfont{ptmr8r} {\reencodefont{8r}{\fromafm{ptmr8a}}} >\transformfont{ptmri8r}{\reencodefont{8r}{\fromafm{ptmri8a}}} >\transformfont{psyro} {\slantfont{167}{\fromafm{psyr}}} > >Instead of creating ptmr8r, ptmri8r and psyr again from the >afm's, we could take the tfm's found under fonts/tfm/..., >convert them back to .pl, and use these. This makes sure >that the faked math fonts always refer to the same "real" fonts >as TeX does. I don't think that would be such a good idea as it might sound, since there are rounding errors introduced in all these conversions. A better way would be to create the ligful PLs from the same MTXes as was used for the non-ligful ones; this should ensure that the character metrics really are the same. Of course, I'm not quite sure at the moment how the TFMs in fonts/tfm/... were made, so there might not be any MTXes to start from. As for the checksums in VFs, I think that subject was debated here some time ago and that it ended with "that's just the way things are", but unless my memory fails me, Berthold will most likely volunteer to tell you all about it. Lars Hellström 8-Jun-1999 17:02:37-GMT,2840;000000000000 Return-Path: <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> Received: from mail.arcor-ip.de (mail-ffm-p.arcor-ip.de [145.253.2.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25327 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 11:02:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from nbg-145-253-67-174.arcor-ip.net (145.253.67.174) by mail.arcor-ip.de; 8 Jun 1999 19:02:00 +0200 Message-ID: <375d4c89375d9c47@mail.arcor-ip.de> (added by mail.arcor-ip.de) From: "Walter Schmidt" <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> To: "=?iso-8859-1?q?Lars_Hellstr=F6m?=" <Lars.Hellstrom@math.umu.se>, "tex-fonts" <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 19:01:58 +0200 (MSZ) Reply-To: "Walter Schmidt" <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail/2 PMMail 2.00.1500 for OS/2 Warp 4.00 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: Re: fontinst 1.801 -- still worse Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by csc-sun.math.utah.edu id LAA25328 On Tue, 8 Jun 1999 17:40:23 +0200, Lars Hellström wrote: >I don't think that would be such a good idea as it might sound, since there >are rounding errors introduced in all these conversions. A better way would >be to create the ligful PLs from the same MTXes as was used for the >non-ligful ones; this should ensure that the character metrics really are >the same. I understand. > >Of course, I'm not quite sure at the moment how the TFMs in fonts/tfm/... >were made, so there might not be any MTXes to start from. AFAIK they were made using fontinst 1.800, and there are no MTXes available any more. However, the metrics are fortunately identical with those produced using v1.801 (except for the checksums). > >As for the checksums in VFs, I think that subject was debated here some >time ago and that it ended with "that's just the way things are", At that time I did not yet understand the topic ... Now I have found several messages re. checksums from 1998 in my mail archive. However, they don't touch my current questions: 1) vptovf does apparently NOT add checksums. Is this just a bug with the version 1.4 I am running here? (I am running TeX under OS/2, so, please, don't tell me to just get the latest Web2c distribution!) 2) If NO: How can I add correct checksums to the vf's? (I can execute vftovp and then, again, vptovf, which will just insert the checksums found under fonts/tfm/... , whether they are correct or not. At least, this could fix the problems with the faked math fonts.) 3 (new question) How did the correct checksums get into the tfm's distributed from CTAN? Apparently so far only the people who developed the fontinst stuff were using it seriously, and they already know all the details, which are _not_ explained in the documentation ;-) Greetings Walter 8-Jun-1999 21:41:42-GMT,2371;000000000000 Return-Path: <sebastian.rahtz@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> Received: from oxmail.ox.ac.uk (oxmail3.ox.ac.uk [163.1.2.9]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA04083 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 15:41:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ermine.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.2.13]) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #1) id 10rTcn-0005gU-00; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 22:41:37 +0100 Received: from max57.public.ox.ac.uk ([192.76.27.57] helo=ogre ident=rahtz) by ermine.ox.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10rTcm-0005nP-00; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 22:41:37 +0100 X-Mailer: 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid (via feedmail 8 Q); VM 6.71 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid From: "Sebastian Rahtz" <sebastian.rahtz@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14173.34056.186265.553256@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 22:03:04 +0100 (BST) To: walter.schmidt@arcormail.de Cc: Lars.Hellstrom@math.umu.se, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: fontinst 1.801 -- still worse In-Reply-To: <375d4c89375d9c47@mail.arcor-ip.de> References: <375d4c89375d9c47@mail.arcor-ip.de> Walter Schmidt writes: > 1) vptovf does apparently NOT add checksums. Is this just > a bug with the version 1.4 I am running here? (I am running > TeX under OS/2, so, please, don't tell me to just get the > latest Web2c distribution!) vptovf does not generate checksums > 2) If NO: How can I add correct checksums to the vf's? > (I can execute vftovp and then, again, vptovf, which will thats what Piet Tutelaers "cs" program is for. you need to look on CTAN at psfonts/tools (from memory) at my scripts which were used to build what is on CTAN. > 3 (new question) How did the correct checksums get into the > tfm's distributed from CTAN? if you can understood my "famtool.pl" (not sure I can!), you have entered on the road to enlightenment > Apparently so far only the people who developed the fontinst > stuff were using it seriously, and they already know all the > details, which are _not_ explained in the documentation ;-) now you sound like Rowland-and-Rebecca! evidence to the contrary is Alan Hoenig, who does not really class as a fontinst developer, but who certainly understands it but i concede there may be some truth in your remark... Sebastian 9-Jun-1999 0:30:56-GMT,2152;000000000000 Return-Path: <fqgouvea@colby.edu> Received: from host-09.colby.edu (IDENT:0@host-09.colby.edu [137.146.210.42]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA08890 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 18:30:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost.colby.edu (ppp-18.termserv-0.network.colby.edu [137.146.113.18]) by host-09.colby.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/Colby-Hub/1.40) with SMTP id UAA00997 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 20:30:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by localhost.colby.edu (IBM OS/2 SENDMAIL VERSION 2.02/client-1.3) id UAA000.62; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 20:30:16 -0400 Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 20:30:16 -0400 Message-Id: <199906090030.UAA000.62@localhost.colby.edu> From: "Fernando Q. Gouvea" <fqgouvea@colby.edu> To: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu In-reply-to: <14173.34056.186265.553256@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> (sebastian.rahtz@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk) Subject: Re: fontinst 1.801 -- still worse Reply-to: fqgouvea@colby.edu X-Viruscheck: Virus Scan Ok: UAA00997 **** On Tue, 8 Jun 1999 22:03:04 +0100 (BST), "Sebastian Rahtz" <sebastian.rahtz@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> said: > Apparently so far only the people who developed the fontinst > stuff were using it seriously, and they already know all the > details, which are _not_ explained in the documentation ;-) SR> evidence to the contrary is Alan Hoenig, who does not really class as a SR> fontinst developer, but who certainly understands it SR> but i concede there may be some truth in your remark... Well, I use fontinst, and I wouldn't dream of getting involved in development... It *is* unfortunate that so many of the details are omitted from the documentation, but I've managed to use fontinst to set up several of my Type 1 font families for use with TeX. Fernando -- Fernando Q. Gouvea Department of Mathematics Editor, MAA Online Colby College http://www.maa.org fqgouvea@colby.edu http://www.colby.edu/math ========================================================== Important Latin Phrases: Furnulum pani nolo. (I don't want a toaster.) 9-Jun-1999 11:05:41-GMT,2340;000000000000 Return-Path: <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA23782 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 05:05:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from MAURITIUS (p81.tc2.state.MA.tiac.com [207.60.242.82]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.3/AI2.10/ai.master.life:2.4) with ESMTP id HAA17989; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 07:05:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.56.19990609070300.00a42af0@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.56 (Beta) Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 07:05:52 -0400 To: fqgouvea@colby.edu, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Subject: Re: fontinst 1.801 -- still worse In-Reply-To: <199906090030.UAA000.62@localhost.colby.edu> References: <14173.34056.186265.553256@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:30 PM 6/8/99 -0400, Fernando Q. Gouvea wrote: >**** On Tue, 8 Jun 1999 22:03:04 +0100 (BST), "Sebastian Rahtz" <sebastian.rahtz@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> said: > > > Apparently so far only the people who developed the fontinst > > stuff were using it seriously, and they already know all the > > details, which are _not_ explained in the documentation ;-) > >SR> evidence to the contrary is Alan Hoenig, who does not really class as a >SR> fontinst developer, but who certainly understands it > >SR> but i concede there may be some truth in your remark... > >Well, I use fontinst, and I wouldn't dream of getting involved in >development... It *is* unfortunate that so many of the details are omitted >from the documentation, but I've managed to use fontinst to set up several >of my Type 1 font families for use with TeX. I guess I don't know what the big deal is about fontinst. All I do is (i) install the Type 1 font using ATM (Adobe Type Manager), (ii) Select "Fonts > WriteTFM..." then pick the new font, (iii) make a note of the file name used for the TFM. Then refer to the TFM using \font in plain TeX, or via a simple *.fd file in LaTeX 2e. I make the *.fd file simply by taking some existing file for another font family and editing it to change the names... Regards, Berthold. Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph/bkph.html 9-Jun-1999 11:12:44-GMT,1016;000000000000 Return-Path: <davidc@nag.co.uk> Received: from nag.co.uk (openmath.nag.co.uk [192.156.217.16]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA23972 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 05:12:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from davidc@localhost) by nag.co.uk (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) id MAA25630; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 12:11:29 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 12:11:29 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <199906091111.MAA25630@nag.co.uk> From: David Carlisle <davidc@nag.co.uk> To: bkph@ai.mit.edu CC: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu In-reply-to: <4.2.0.56.19990609070300.00a42af0@mail.ai.mit.edu> (bkph@ai.mit.edu) Subject: Re: fontinst 1.801 -- still worse References: <14173.34056.186265.553256@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4.2.0.56.19990609070300.00a42af0@mail.ai.mit.edu> > I guess I don't know what the big deal is about fontinst. All I do is > (i) install the Type 1 font using ATM (Adobe Type Manager), (ii) Select > "Fonts > WriteTFM..." then pick the new font, Far far too easy. Where's the fun in that? David 9-Jun-1999 11:46:17-GMT,2181;000000000000 Return-Path: <sebastian.rahtz@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> Received: from oxmail.ox.ac.uk (oxmail2.ox.ac.uk [163.1.2.1]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA24847 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 05:46:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ermine.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.2.13]) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #1) id 10rgo8-00057D-00; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 12:46:12 +0100 Received: from spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.15.17] ident=rahtz) by ermine.ox.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10rgo8-0006fN-00; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 12:46:12 +0100 From: Sebastian Rahtz <sebastian.rahtz@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14174.24923.458003.34671@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 12:43:07 +0000 (GMT) To: bkph@ai.mit.edu Cc: fqgouvea@colby.edu, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: fontinst 1.801 -- still worse In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.56.19990609070300.00a42af0@mail.ai.mit.edu> References: <14173.34056.186265.553256@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4.2.0.56.19990609070300.00a42af0@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Mailer: VM 6.71 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Berthold K.P. Horn writes: > I guess I don't know what the big deal is about fontinst. All I do is > (i) install the Type 1 font using ATM (Adobe Type Manager), (ii) Select > "Fonts > WriteTFM..." then pick the new font, (iii) make a note of the > file name used for the TFM. Then refer to the TFM using \font in > plain TeX, or via a simple *.fd file in LaTeX 2e. I make the *.fd file > simply by taking some existing file for another font family and > editing it to change the names... its fine, if all you want to do is install a single font, in your private environment, with no tweaking. then again there are the people who want to make complex virtual fonts combining characters from a variety of sources. of course, in your crippled GUI system, you have to do stages (i) to (iii) *for every single* font. yurgh. i prefer an automated route. just me an old-fashioned control freak. as the pundit say, fontinst is the most fun you have which does not involve chocolate sebastian 9-Jun-1999 12:15:21-GMT,3430;000000000000 Return-Path: <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA25603 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 06:15:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from MAURITIUS (p81.tc2.state.MA.tiac.com [207.60.242.82]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.3/AI2.10/ai.master.life:2.4) with ESMTP id IAA20092; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 08:15:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.56.19990609080550.01709198@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.56 (Beta) Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 08:15:28 -0400 To: Sebastian Rahtz <sebastian.rahtz@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Subject: Re: fontinst 1.801 -- still worse Cc: fqgouvea@colby.edu, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu In-Reply-To: <14174.24923.458003.34671@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <4.2.0.56.19990609070300.00a42af0@mail.ai.mit.edu> <14173.34056.186265.553256@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4.2.0.56.19990609070300.00a42af0@mail.ai.mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:43 PM 6/9/99 +0000, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >Berthold K.P. Horn writes: > > I guess I don't know what the big deal is about fontinst. All I do is > > (i) install the Type 1 font using ATM (Adobe Type Manager), (ii) Select > > "Fonts > WriteTFM..." then pick the new font, (iii) make a note of the > > file name used for the TFM. Then refer to the TFM using \font in > > plain TeX, or via a simple *.fd file in LaTeX 2e. I make the *.fd file > > simply by taking some existing file for another font family and > > editing it to change the names... > >its fine, if all you want to do is install a single font, in your >private environment, There are TFMs for the 2230 fonts in the Adobe library at http://www.YandY.com/usely1.htm :-) (done in about 10 minutes). >with no tweaking. then again there are the people >who want to make complex virtual fonts combining characters from a >variety of sources. Yes, and for the pleasure of that tiny percentage of TeX users, the rest have to suffer not being able to use Type 1 fonts. Look at the steady stream of questions from clueless people on c.t.t. --- which is only starting, but will become a deluge once people really start to use scalable outline fonts more widely. I have nothing against using complex methods when you have complex needs, but it is arrogant in the extreme to prevent the unwashed masses from using Type 1 fonts just because you want to show off how smart you are. But then that *is* the TeX way, isn't it? Why cripple AFM2TFM so it can't be used for "normal" use? (Fortunately there is a work around: http://www.yandy.com/maketfm.htm). >of course, in your crippled GUI system, you have to do stages (i) to >(iii) *for every single* font. yurgh. i prefer an automated >route. just me an old-fashioned control freak. In order to save bandwidth, I did not mention "Font > WriteTFMs" which will do all installed fonts, or, optionally only Type 1 or only TrueType, or, optionally only text or only non-text fonts, or, optionally only "new" fonts :-) >as the pundit say, fontinst is the most fun you have which does not >involve chocolate I use AFMtoTFM and gain free time that way to do *real* fun things :-) Regards, Berthold. Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph/bkph.html 9-Jun-1999 12:30:58-GMT,3583;000000000000 Return-Path: <sebastian.rahtz@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> Received: from oxmail.ox.ac.uk (oxmail2.ox.ac.uk [163.1.2.1]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA26018 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 06:30:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ermine.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.2.13]) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #1) id 10rhVO-000643-00; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 13:30:54 +0100 Received: from spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.15.17] ident=rahtz) by ermine.ox.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10rhVN-00070m-00; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 13:30:53 +0100 From: Sebastian Rahtz <sebastian.rahtz@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14174.27604.540163.835076@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 13:27:48 +0000 (GMT) To: bkph@ai.mit.edu Cc: fqgouvea@colby.edu, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: fontinst 1.801 -- still worse In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.56.19990609080550.01709198@mail.ai.mit.edu> References: <4.2.0.56.19990609070300.00a42af0@mail.ai.mit.edu> <14173.34056.186265.553256@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4.2.0.56.19990609080550.01709198@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Mailer: VM 6.71 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Berthold K.P. Horn writes: > There are TFMs for the 2230 fonts in the Adobe library at > http://www.YandY.com/usely1.htm :-) (done in about 10 minutes). if only LY1 was the encoding i wanted :-} > Yes, and for the pleasure of that tiny percentage of TeX users, > the rest have to suffer not being able to use Type 1 fonts. > Look at the steady stream of questions from clueless people > on c.t.t. --- which is only starting, but will become a deluge once > people really start to use scalable outline fonts more widely. .. > I have nothing against using complex methods > when you have complex needs, but it is arrogant in the extreme > to prevent the unwashed masses from using Type 1 fonts just > because you want to show off how smart you are. well, some points (are we getting serious now?) a) most people don't have a menu with "WriteTFM" on it. It seems reasonable, in the TeX world, to promote portable, free, solutions. People who want to can buy better solutions from you, but I want to cater for the lowest common denominator b) in our `free' world, dvips cannot grok TrueType fonts; thats probably a far bigger barrier to common use than the metrics c) nobody demands that you use fontinst. afm2tfm is simple and easy to use, like WriteTFM. fontinst is there if you want its extra facilities. > Why cripple AFM2TFM so it can't be used for "normal" use? > (Fortunately there is a work around: > http://www.yandy.com/maketfm.htm). interesting. i wish afm2tfm had more control though, over things like the size of spaces. > In order to save bandwidth, I did not mention "Font > WriteTFMs" > which will do all installed fonts, or, optionally only Type 1 or > only TrueType, or, optionally only text or only non-text fonts, > or, optionally only "new" fonts :-) oh well, i tried. you caught me out > I use AFMtoTFM and gain free time that way to do *real* fun things :-) > does WriteTFM just call "AFMtoTFM"? or does it have its own converter? Anyway, this is all beside the point. I know you don't think people *should* be using eg "mathptm", but if we accept that they want to, can you explain how to build it using AFMtoTFM? or would you just suggest we rewrite the macros? incidentally, i think we should all agree to set checkums to 0 in all our metrics, to avoid these questions about them... sebastian 9-Jun-1999 17:00:27-GMT,1545;000000000000 Return-Path: <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> Received: from mail.arcor-ip.de (mail-ffm-p.arcor-ip.de [145.253.2.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA03957 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 11:00:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (145.253.73.172) by mail.arcor-ip.de; 9 Jun 1999 18:59:55 +0200 Message-ID: <375e9d8c375f81d7@mail.arcor-ip.de> (added by mail.arcor-ip.de) From: "Walter Schmidt" <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> To: "tex-fonts" <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 15:17:48 +0200 (MSZ) Reply-To: "Walter Schmidt" <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail/2 PMMail 2.00.1500 for OS/2 Warp 4.00 In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.56.19990609070300.00a42af0@mail.ai.mit.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: fontinst 1.801 -- still worse On Wed, 09 Jun 1999 07:05:52 -0400, Berthold K.P. Horn wrote: >I guess I don't know what the big deal is about fontinst. All I do is >(i) install the Type 1 font using ATM (Adobe Type Manager), (ii) Select >"Fonts > WriteTFM..." then pick the new font, (iii) make a note of the >file name used for the TFM. Then refer to the TFM using \font in >plain TeX, or via a simple *.fd file in LaTeX 2e. I make the *.fd file >simply by taking some existing file for another font family and >editing it to change the names... I guess you cannot generate a faked math font family so easily ;-) And that's where I had a problem. Greetings Walter 10-Jun-1999 2:57:42-GMT,2160;000000000000 Return-Path: <ajeffrey@cs.depaul.edu> Received: from bach.cs.depaul.edu (bach.cs.depaul.edu [140.192.33.6]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA21595 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 20:57:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cs.depaul.edu (POLLOCK [24.136.8.8]) by bach.cs.depaul.edu with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2524.0) id MGS0RDYJ; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 21:57:35 -0500 Sender: ajeffrey Message-ID: <375F2A03.8EC4F6CD@cs.depaul.edu> Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 02:59:15 +0000 From: Alan Jeffrey <ajeffrey@cs.depaul.edu> Organization: DePaul University X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.0.36 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Berthold K.P. Horn" <bkph@ai.mit.edu> CC: Sebastian Rahtz <sebastian.rahtz@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>, fqgouvea@colby.edu, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: fontinst 1.801 -- still worse References: <4.2.0.56.19990609070300.00a42af0@mail.ai.mit.edu> <14173.34056.186265.553256@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4.2.0.56.19990609070300.00a42af0@mail.ai.mit.edu> <4.2.0.56.19990609080550.01709198@mail.ai.mit.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Berthold K.P. Horn" wrote: > Yes, and for the pleasure of that tiny percentage of TeX users, > the rest have to suffer not being able to use Type 1 fonts. That tiny percentage of TeX users is: a) anyone using the mathptm package (or anyone who wants to use math fonts as drop-in replacements for cmsy*) b) anyone who wants to use faked c&sc c) anyone who wants to use the T1 or OT1 font encodings (with all their oddnesses, e.g. in OT1 accessing the <lslash> glyph via the <l> - <lslashslash> ligature). which pretty much covers most users of TeX. My experience of trying to use type 1 fonts as anything other than drop-in replacements for cm has been pretty disastrous, e.g. try using a Times / cmss / cmtt combination and make your documents portable across TeX installations... not fun. Alan. -- Alan Jeffrey, CTI, DePaul University, 243 S Wabash, Chicago IL 60604 ajeffrey@cs.depaul.edu http://klee.cs.depaul.edu/ajeffrey/ 10-Jun-1999 10:56:26-GMT,3674;000000000000 Return-Path: <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA02788 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 04:56:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from MAURITIUS ([209.61.78.115]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.3/AI2.10/ai.master.life:2.4) with ESMTP id GAA24049; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 06:56:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.56.19990610064701.01734410@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.56 (Beta) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 06:56:24 -0400 To: Sebastian Rahtz <sebastian.rahtz@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Subject: Re: fontinst 1.801 -- still worse Cc: fqgouvea@colby.edu, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu In-Reply-To: <14174.27604.540163.835076@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <4.2.0.56.19990609080550.01709198@mail.ai.mit.edu> <4.2.0.56.19990609070300.00a42af0@mail.ai.mit.edu> <14173.34056.186265.553256@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4.2.0.56.19990609080550.01709198@mail.ai.mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:27 PM 6/9/99 +0000, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > a) most people don't have a menu with "WriteTFM" on it. It seems >reasonable, in the TeX world, to promote portable, free, >solutions. People who want to can buy better solutions from you, but I >want to cater for the lowest common denominator Well, my idea is that AFM2TFM be revived to where you can use it to make TFM files complete with ligatures and kerning pairs. As you may have noticed, I have been lobbying for a lot of things that should happen that do *not* involve buying anything. For example, having all TeX implementations read all three flavours of line termination. Don't need to buy Y&Y TeX for that :-)! > b) in our `free' world, dvips cannot grok TrueType fonts; thats >probably a far bigger barrier to common use than the metrics How is this relevant? I thought we were talking about Type 1 fonts. WriteTFM is not restricted to TrueType fonts -- it works for any font format properly installed in Windows (which these days is just three: Type 1, TrueType and OpenType). > c) nobody demands that you use fontinst. afm2tfm is simple and easy >to use, like WriteTFM. fontinst is there if you want its extra facilities. Small changes to AFM2TFM would make it actually useable. Namely making it able to do kerning and ligatures. > > Why cripple AFM2TFM so it can't be used for "normal" use? > > (Fortunately there is a work around: > > http://www.yandy.com/maketfm.htm). >interesting. i wish afm2tfm had more control though, over things like >the size of spaces. > > I use AFMtoTFM and gain free time that way to do *real* fun things :-) > >does WriteTFM just call "AFMtoTFM"? or does it have its own converter? Both. It first has to create a suitable AFM file (with added comments) and then call AFMtoTFM. How it links to AFMtoTFM (DLL or EXE) is less significant. To create a good AFM file it has to trace out all the glyph outlines, follow calls to construct composites from base characters etc. and do this for the different font formats. >incidentally, i think we should all agree to set checkums to 0 in all >our metrics, to avoid these questions about them... I disagree, I think we should (i) turn off meaningless complaints from current versions of applications and (ii) use the radix 40 scheme described elsewhere to hide the name of the encoding in the checksum for advanced applications that can check this :-) Regards, Berthold. Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph/bkph.html 10-Jun-1999 11:11:09-GMT,3365;000000000000 Return-Path: <sebastian.rahtz@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> Received: from oxmail.ox.ac.uk (oxmail2.ox.ac.uk [163.1.2.1]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA03141 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 05:11:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ermine.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.2.13]) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #1) id 10s2jf-0002Iz-00; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 12:11:03 +0100 Received: from spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.15.17] ident=rahtz) by ermine.ox.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10s2je-0002ev-00; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 12:11:02 +0100 From: Sebastian Rahtz <sebastian.rahtz@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14175.43677.734894.662249@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 12:07:57 +0000 (GMT) To: bkph@ai.mit.edu Cc: fqgouvea@colby.edu, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: fontinst 1.801 -- still worse In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.56.19990610064701.01734410@mail.ai.mit.edu> References: <4.2.0.56.19990609080550.01709198@mail.ai.mit.edu> <4.2.0.56.19990609070300.00a42af0@mail.ai.mit.edu> <14173.34056.186265.553256@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4.2.0.56.19990610064701.01734410@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Mailer: VM 6.71 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Berthold K.P. Horn writes: > Well, my idea is that AFM2TFM be revived to where you can use it > to make TFM files complete with ligatures and kerning pairs. I dont have any quarrel with that > As you may have noticed, I have been lobbying for a lot of things > that should happen that do *not* involve buying anything. For > example, having all TeX implementations read all three flavours > of line termination. Don't need to buy Y&Y TeX for that :-)! I think, genuinely, that Y&Y promotes a good model of interaction between free and commercial software. you know about, support, and understand the free stuff, but have your own stuff available, for which you point out the advantages. usually, it works well > > b) in our `free' world, dvips cannot grok TrueType fonts; thats > >probably a far bigger barrier to common use than the metrics > > How is this relevant? I thought we were talking about Type 1 fonts. > WriteTFM is not restricted to TrueType fonts -- it works for yes, i was just thinking aloud that the lack of truetype support in free dvi drivers is a bigger problem than metrics. > Small changes to AFM2TFM would make it actually useable. > Namely making it able to do kerning and ligatures. I dont have anything against that. the stuff is under the GPL, why doesnt someone run with this and produce a variant? > Both. It first has to create a suitable AFM file (with added comments) > and then call AFMtoTFM. How it links to AFMtoTFM (DLL or EXE) is less > significant. To create a good AFM file it has to trace out all the glyph > outlines, follow calls to construct composites from base characters etc. > and do this for the different font formats. blimey...... > I disagree, I think we should (i) turn off meaningless complaints > from current versions of applications and (ii) use the radix 40 scheme > described elsewhere to hide the name of the encoding in the checksum > for advanced applications that can check this :-) fine by me. luckily, aint my job since I dont maintain any relevant software :-} sebastian 10-Jun-1999 13:20:47-GMT,2315;000000000000 Return-Path: <sx0005@sx2.hrz.uni-dortmund.de> Received: from nx5.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE (nx5.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE [129.217.131.21]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA06182 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 07:20:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sx2.hrz.uni-dortmund.de by nx5.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE via smtp-local with ESMTP; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 15:20:31 +0200 Received: from rigel.univie.ac.at (dial-143136.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE [129.217.143.136]) by sx2.hrz.uni-dortmund.de (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA29333; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 15:20:22 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from sx0005@localhost) by rigel.univie.ac.at (8.9.3/8.8.8) id PAA24060; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 15:10:30 GMT Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 15:10:30 GMT Message-Id: <199906101510.PAA24060@rigel.univie.ac.at> X-Authentication-Warning: rigel.univie.ac.at: sx0005 set sender to sx0005@sx2.hrz.uni-dortmund.de using -f From: Werner LEMBERG <sx0005@sx2.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE> To: sebastian.rahtz@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk CC: bkph@ai.mit.edu, fqgouvea@colby.edu, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu In-reply-to: <14175.43677.734894.662249@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> (message from Sebastian Rahtz on Thu, 10 Jun 1999 12:07:57 +0000 (GMT)) Subject: Re: fontinst 1.801 -- still worse Reply-to: Werner LEMBERG <wl@gnu.org> References: <4.2.0.56.19990609080550.01709198@mail.ai.mit.edu> <4.2.0.56.19990609070300.00a42af0@mail.ai.mit.edu> <14173.34056.186265.553256@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4.2.0.56.19990610064701.01734410@mail.ai.mit.edu> <14175.43677.734894.662249@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> > > b) in our `free' world, dvips cannot grok TrueType fonts; thats > >probably a far bigger barrier to common use than the metrics > > How is this relevant? I thought we were talking about Type 1 fonts. > WriteTFM is not restricted to TrueType fonts -- it works for yes, i was just thinking aloud that the lack of truetype support in free dvi drivers is a bigger problem than metrics. Everyone is invited to use the FreeType library! BTW, there already exists a project called VFlib which can digest a lot of font formats (including Type 1 and TrueType); some dvi previewers using this library are also included. For details see ftp://typehack.aial.hiroshima-u.ac.jp:21/pub/TypeHack/{VFlib,Tex-Guy} Werner 10-Jun-1999 13:26:19-GMT,1890;000000000000 Return-Path: <sebastian.rahtz@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> Received: from oxmail.ox.ac.uk (oxmail2.ox.ac.uk [163.1.2.1]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA06361 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 07:26:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ermine.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.2.13]) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #1) id 10s4qR-0005T0-00; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 14:26:11 +0100 Received: from spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.15.17] ident=rahtz) by ermine.ox.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10s4qQ-0000NV-00; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 14:26:10 +0100 From: Sebastian Rahtz <sebastian.rahtz@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14175.51785.494633.304760@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 14:23:05 +0000 (GMT) To: wl@gnu.org Cc: fqgouvea@colby.edu, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: fontinst 1.801 -- still worse In-Reply-To: <199906101510.PAA24060@rigel.univie.ac.at> References: <4.2.0.56.19990609080550.01709198@mail.ai.mit.edu> <4.2.0.56.19990609070300.00a42af0@mail.ai.mit.edu> <14173.34056.186265.553256@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4.2.0.56.19990610064701.01734410@mail.ai.mit.edu> <14175.43677.734894.662249@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> <199906101510.PAA24060@rigel.univie.ac.at> X-Mailer: VM 6.71 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Werner LEMBERG writes: > yes, i was just thinking aloud that the lack of truetype support in > free dvi drivers is a bigger problem than metrics. > > Everyone is invited to use the FreeType library! BTW, there already pardon me, but I don't want to have my PS full of PK versions of the fonts... but i take the point > exists a project called VFlib which can digest a lot of font formats > (including Type 1 and TrueType); some dvi previewers using this some brave should make a dvips using this sebastian 10-Jun-1999 21:51:49-GMT,3783;000000000000 Return-Path: <ensley@vaisala.meas.ncsu.edu> Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA21661 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 15:51:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from vaisala.meas.ncsu.edu (vaisala.meas.ncsu.edu [152.1.150.11]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA03098 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 17:51:42 -0400 Received: by vaisala.meas.ncsu.edu; id AA13850; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 17:49:03 -0400 Message-Id: <XFMail.990610174903.dbensley@unity.ncsu.edu> X-Mailer: XFMail 1.1-beta [p0] on OSF1 Sender: ensley@vaisala.meas.ncsu.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 17:16:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Darrell Ensley <dbensley@unity.ncsu.edu> To: tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: .pfb files Hi, all. I'm not sure if i'm on the right list for this question but i'll ask anyway. i'm trying to install other fonts that i've downloaded from CTAN, such as Arial (monotype) and Helvetica (adobe), and i've got: 1) .tfm files 2) .vf files 3) .fd files and arial.sty 4) config.ma1 file 5) ma1.map file after examining everything i could find to read about fonts in LaTeX2e, i believe i've put them all in the right places (but even that might not be right) but then i run into a problem when i run LaTeX: >dvips -o nwp.ps nwp.dvi >This is dvipsk 5.58f Copyright 1986, 1994 Radical Eye Software >' TeX output 1999.06.10:1711' -> nwp.ps >dvips: ! Couldn't find header file ma1mi8a.pfb >*** Exit 1 >Stop. > >Compilation exited abnormally with code 1 at Thu Jun 10 17:11:52 The LaTeX document won't compile because it can't find (for example) the file ma1mi8a.pfb (for the font ma1mi8r and 8r.enc). In fact, i don't have *any* .pfb files, yet the ma1.map file that came with the arial font informs the driver that i need the .pfb files: >ArialMT-MediumItalic "TeXBase1Encoding ReEncodeFont " <8r.enc <ma1mi8a.pfb Kopka and Daly (A Guide to LaTeX, 3rd ed, 1999) only mention .pfb and .pfa files on one page, the page that says "the mapping files (ma1.map) informs the driver if such files need to be loaded" I've only been using LaTeX for a few weeks and i feel as if i've been thrown head first from 'user' status into the teTeX/TeX/LaTeX engine and i have no idea where i'm at. the good news is that i'm learning alot about LaTeX, but so much still doesn't make sense. Anyways, what i need to know is: 1) Where can i find the .pfb files for Arial font (first), in fact for all of the monotype and adobe fonts i may try to install? i can't seem to find any on CTAN (www nor ftp). 2) What are .pfb and .pfa files in the first place and why do i need them (or why didn't they come with the fonts from CTAN)? 2) If this isn't the right mailing list for a question regarding new font installation, are there any other mailing lists that might be able to help me? Well, now that your eyes are tired from reading all this and my fingers are tired from typing all this and my brain is aching from trying to find what i need, i'll end this email. Thanks in advance! Darrell Ensley ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Darrell Bryan Ensley <dbensley@unity.ncsu.edu> Mesoscale Dynamics Lab 5703 Windlestraw Dr. Rm 135, Research III Apartment 37 North Carolina State Univ. Durham, NC 27713 W: (919) 515-1437 H: (919) 361-1346 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ When the sunshine burns the darkness, Remove the veil that lingers on Your face, The stains of time still mark us, Standing in the aftermath of Grace... -- "Stains of Time" Common Children 11-Jun-1999 0:04:39-GMT,3661;000000000000 Return-Path: <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA25475 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 18:04:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA03677 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 20:04:36 -0400 Received: from MAURITIUS (maui.ai.mit.edu [128.52.37.105]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.3/AI2.10/ai.master.life:2.4) with ESMTP id UAA09337; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 20:04:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.56.19990610195919.00a42c28@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.56 (Beta) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 20:04:20 -0400 To: Darrell Ensley <dbensley@unity.ncsu.edu>, tex-fonts@tug.org From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Subject: Re: .pfb files In-Reply-To: <XFMail.990610174903.dbensley@unity.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 05:16 PM 6/10/99 -0400, Darrell Ensley wrote: >Anyways, what i need to know is: >1) Where can i find the .pfb files for Arial font (first), in fact > for all of the monotype and adobe fonts i may try to install? > i can't seem to find any on CTAN (www nor ftp). These are good font sources: Adobe: http://www.adobe.com/type/browser/main.html http://www.adobe.com Monotype: http://www3.digitalriver.com/type/index.html http://www.monotype.com LinoType: http://www.fonts.de/fonts/ehtml/3533C409/fontstore.htm http://www.linotypelibrary.com ITC: http://www.itcfonts.com/itc/fonts/index.html http://www.itcfonts.com URW: http://www.urwpp.de/cgi-bin1/dalcgi/english/Kliste.htd http://www.urwpp.de/home_e.htm Agfa: http://www.agfahome.com/agfatype/pstype/main.html http://www.agfahome.com/agfatype http://www.agfadirect.com FontShop: http://www.fontshop.de/fontshop/fontshop.html http://www.fontshop.de Bitstream http://www3.digitalriver.com/bit/index.html http://www.bitstream.com Emigre: https://sales.emigre.com/order.html http://www.emigre.com/ LetraSet: http://www.letraset.com/itc/fonts/index.html http://www.letraset.com/ Y&Y: http://www.YandY.com/products.htm#fonts Berthold http://www.bertholdtypes.com/ Fontfont http://www.fontfont.de/ Fonthaus http://www.fonthaus.com/ Tiro http://www.tiro.com/ P22: http://www.p22.com/index.html Coniglio: http://www.conigliotype.com/ 3 island: http://www.3ip.com/3ip.html Vintage: http://www.vintagetype.com/ Font Bureau http://www.fontbureau.com Phil's Fonts http://www.philsfonts.com/ Treacyfaces http://www.treacyfaces.com/ Scriptorium http://www.ragnarokpress.com/scriptorium EyeWire http://www.eyewire.com/type/ For more see: http://www.microsoft.com/typography/links/default.asp >2) What are .pfb and .pfa files in the first place and why do i > need them (or why didn't they come with the fonts from CTAN)? Fonts are typically commercial copyrighted material. They do not appear on CTAN for the same reason MS Word, Adobe Pagemaker and Quark Express do not. Some fonts are built inft PS printers, so you paid some license fee for them indirectly when you paid for the printer. These fonts can be used easily for printing but not previewing. Some fonts are available with few restrictions. See for example http://www.ams.org/index/tex/type1-cm-fonts.html Regards. Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph/bkph.html 11-Jun-1999 8:21:52-GMT,3768;000000000000 Return-Path: <tinne@goedel.cs.uni-dortmund.de> Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA07235 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 02:21:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from waldorf.cs.uni-dortmund.de (waldorf.cs.uni-dortmund.de [129.217.4.42]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA05589 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 04:21:48 -0400 Received: from goedel.cs.uni-dortmund.de (goedel.cs.uni-dortmund.de [129.217.28.168]) by waldorf.cs.uni-dortmund.de with SMTP id KAA19903; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 10:20:06 +0200 (MES) Message-Id: <199906110820.KAA27162@goedel.cs.uni-dortmund.de> Received: from goedel (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by goedel.cs.uni-dortmund.de id KAA27162; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 10:20:06 +0200 X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 From: Karsten Tinnefeld <tinnefeld@noether.cs.uni-dortmund.de> Reply-To: Karsten Tinnefeld <tinnefeld@noether.cs.uni-dortmund.de> X-uri: http://ls2-www.cs.uni-dortmund.de/~tinnefeld/ X-face: *sXD#NpiH+[WIRUfGB;twtnVo=k{4Ev$$s75_L<y).1]M"|!K4iVnU>f~Sw%(A74 `N'EtJI[Z{P'X@60ru7SfQ%.3It!Jw'?UjF<V~o6IPIoDy=$0rbyj]H6!zm$)sd,/dgzY_D OfEmPcE*'/QcqzO+sR4yZ0fSruqLZ#C8i?Ce<`w(0J&h)Y<T7%QV-L<C^WKLitv3"Fl&YO> ~_B1l-`S:F>h~!,!|ow*.'@nzW.ADJ06j/Mj5NVp3 X-Organization: Universitaet Dortmund, Lehrstuhl Informatik 2, D-44221 Dortmund X-Address: GB IV/323 CS, Baroper Strasse 301, D-44227 Dortmund X-Phone: +49 231 755-4737 oder -2777 (Sekretariat) X-Telefax: +49 231 755-2047 X-public-transport: H-Bahn, Busse 440, 449: Eichlinghofen H-Bahn X-spelling: alte deutsche Rechtschreibung; Warnung: Wenn Sie nach dem August 1998 Rechtschreibunterricht erhalten haben, fragen Sie einen Lehrer nach eventuellen Schaeden durch Lektuere dieser Mail. To: tex-fonts@tug.org, fontinst@cogs.susx.ac.uk Subject: bitstrea.map changes Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 10:20:06 +0200 Sender: tinne@goedel.cs.uni-dortmund.de Dear TeX fonts maintainers, dear fontinst team, working on the new corelpak I have two additions and one corrections to the file bitstrea.map. The additional fonts belong to the bfu family and have appearantly been added in Corel Draw 8. The latter font has "Italic" and "Headline" mixed up, at least according to not being parsed by the fontinst-program otherwise. Anyway, Dutch801 has the same variant, and IT is named "bid" but "bdi". @c @c Additions by Karsten Tinnefeld for Corel Draw 8 CD @c where do I know the fourth value? @c bfuli8ac FuturaLtCnBTItalic BT ???? futurlci bfumi8ac FuturaMdCnBTItalic BT ???? futurmci @c @c compare Dutch801 Italic Headline: wrong order bctbid8a CheltenhamBT-BoldItalicHeadline BT 0509 chltboia In fact, I'm not really sure about the third value, as they say: %!PS-AdobeFont-1.0: FuturaLtCnBTItalic %%CreationDate: Fri May 07 04:35:22 1993 % Created with FontMonger Copyright (c) 1991-2 Ares Software Corp. All rights reserved. %!PS-AdobeFont-1.0: FuturaMdCnBTItalic %%CreationDate: Fri May 07 04:37:22 1993 % Created with FontMonger Copyright (c) 1991-2 Ares Software Corp. All rights reserved. Further on, I'd like to know what you think about the "Poster" weight. For a first try, I mapped it to the NFSS value "p", but I'm not really happy about this. The only appearance meat is the following. Poster could of cause be a variant as well (having "dip in the second case, yes). bbdp8a PosterBodoniBT-Roman BT 0129 pstrbodn bbdpi8a PosterBodoniBT-Italic BT 0130 pstrbodi -- Karsten Tinnefeld Silence is the perfectest herald of joy: I were but little happy, if I could say how much. 20-Jun-1999 22:32:48-GMT,1886;000000000000 Return-Path: <mario.koch@neuburg.baynet.de> Received: from primary.schrobenhausen.baynet.de (nt.tc-bavaria.baynet.de [195.37.228.6]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06782 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 16:32:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lab (98AC343B.ipt.aol.com [152.172.52.59]) by primary.schrobenhausen.baynet.de (post.office MTA v1.9.3 ID# 67-121049) with SMTP id AAA243 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 00:34:28 +0100 Message-ID: <010801bebb6c$6ca57f40$3b34ac98@lab> Reply-To: "Mario Koch" <mario.koch@neusob.de> From: "Mario Koch" <mario.koch@neusob.de> To: <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> Subject: news Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 00:29:52 +0200 Organization: =?iso-8859-1?Q?B=FCrgernetz_Neuburg-Schrobenhausen?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0105_01BEBB7D.2DEC0060" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0105_01BEBB7D.2DEC0060 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable www.spearmind.net ------=_NextPart_000_0105_01BEBB7D.2DEC0060 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#d8d0c8> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> <DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D6><A=20 href=3D"http://www.spearmind.net">www.spearmind.net</A></FONT></DIV></FON= T></DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0105_01BEBB7D.2DEC0060-- 6-Jul-1999 23:57:18-GMT,2374;000000000000 Return-Path: <xie@uwaterloo.ca> Received: from sunburn.uwaterloo.ca (sunburn.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.116.26]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA12457 for <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu>; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 17:57:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from uwaterloo.ca (cnts6p30.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.13.30]) by sunburn.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA17897; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 19:57:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <378297B6.F994FFE7@uwaterloo.ca> Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 19:56:38 -0400 From: Professor Wei-Chau Xie <xie@uwaterloo.ca> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu CC: xie@uwaterloo.ca Subject: Installing MinionMM for LaTeX Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Colleagues: I have purchased Adobe MinionMM font and Adobe Type Manager Deluxe 4.0, hoping that I could install MinionMM font for LaTeX. I have TeX Live 4 implementation of LaTeX on my system (Windows 95); all the files needed for latex are in proper places and I could latex a sample file correctly. To run dvips, I need pfb files, such as pmnr8a.pfb, as specified in psfonts.map. The book "The LaTeX Graphics Companion" (p.406) says that the Multiple Master fonts can be easily manipulated using Adobe Type Manager, but does not offer any instructions. The MinionMM font that I purchased from Adobe comes with two pfb files, i.e., ZGI_____.pfb and ZGRG____.pfb, and some instance pss files. When I use Adobe Type Manager to generate font instances, such as weight 415, width 535, and size 11 as suggested by "The LaTeX Graphic Companion", two files were created, i.e., ZGRG_HY0.pfm and ZGRG_HY0.pss. These files work perfectly with Windows applications such as Microsoft Word but cannot be used with dvips (I have tried renamed the files). My question is how to generate the pfb files that can be used by dvips with Adobe Type Manager. I appreciate very much any instructions and suggestions that you may offer me. Best regards, Wei-Chau Xie -- Wei-Chau Xie, Ph.D. Associate Professor and Associate Chair for Undergraduate Studies Department of Civil Engineering Faculty of Engineering University of Waterloo Waterloo, Ontario, Canada N2L 3G1 Phone: (519)888-4567, ext.3988 Fax: (519)888-6197 E-mail: xie@uwaterloo.ca Homepage: http://sunburn.uwaterloo.ca/~xie 7-Jul-1999 0:28:48-GMT,3146;000000000000 Return-Path: <tjk@ams.org> Received: from sun06.ams.org (sun06.ams.org [130.44.1.6]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA13327 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 18:28:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by sun06.ams.org (PMDF V5.1-10 #27147) id <0FEH006015BYOJ@sun06.ams.org> for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 20:28:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sun06.ams.org by sun06.ams.org (PMDF V5.1-10 #27147) with ESMTP id <0FEH006735BYHK@sun06.ams.org> for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Tue, 06 Jul 1999 20:28:46 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 20:28:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Tom Kacvinsky <tjk@ams.org> Subject: Re: Installing MinionMM for LaTeX In-reply-to: <378297B6.F994FFE7@uwaterloo.ca> To: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Message-id: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9907062025250.3869-100000@sun06.ams.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi, See http://www.lcdf.org/type/#mmtools for tools on how to make interpolated (single master) fonts from MM fonts. You'll still need to make TFMs (and possibly VFs) for use with TeX. But fontinst can used for this. Or afm2tfm. To get the AFM files necessary for doing so, you can use the mmafm tool from the above link. Regards, Tom On Tue, 6 Jul 1999, Professor Wei-Chau Xie wrote: > Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 19:56:38 -0400 > From: Professor Wei-Chau Xie <xie@uwaterloo.ca> > To: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu > Cc: xie@uwaterloo.ca > Subject: Installing MinionMM for LaTeX > > Dear Colleagues: > > I have purchased Adobe MinionMM font and Adobe Type Manager Deluxe 4.0, > hoping that I could install MinionMM font for LaTeX. I have TeX Live 4 > implementation of LaTeX on my system (Windows 95); all the files needed > for latex are in proper places and I could latex a sample file > correctly. > > To run dvips, I need pfb files, such as pmnr8a.pfb, as specified in > psfonts.map. The book "The LaTeX Graphics Companion" (p.406) says that > the Multiple Master fonts can be easily manipulated using Adobe Type > Manager, but does not offer any instructions. The MinionMM font that I > purchased from Adobe comes with two pfb files, i.e., ZGI_____.pfb and > ZGRG____.pfb, and some instance pss files. When I use Adobe Type Manager > to generate font instances, such as weight 415, width 535, and size 11 > as suggested by "The LaTeX Graphic Companion", two files were created, > i.e., ZGRG_HY0.pfm and ZGRG_HY0.pss. These files work perfectly with > Windows applications such as Microsoft Word but cannot be used with > dvips (I have tried renamed the files). > > My question is how to generate the pfb files that can be used by dvips > with Adobe Type Manager. I appreciate very much any instructions and > suggestions that you may offer me. > > Best regards, > > Wei-Chau Xie > -- > Wei-Chau Xie, Ph.D. > Associate Professor and Associate Chair for Undergraduate Studies > Department of Civil Engineering > Faculty of Engineering > University of Waterloo > Waterloo, Ontario, Canada N2L 3G1 > Phone: (519)888-4567, ext.3988 > Fax: (519)888-6197 > E-mail: xie@uwaterloo.ca > Homepage: http://sunburn.uwaterloo.ca/~xie > > 7-Jul-1999 2:47:31-GMT,3243;000000000000 Return-Path: <xie@uwaterloo.ca> Received: from sunburn.uwaterloo.ca (sunburn.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.116.26]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA16804 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 20:47:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from uwaterloo.ca (cnts2p19.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.182.19]) by sunburn.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA18924; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 22:47:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3782BF9B.71670216@uwaterloo.ca> Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 22:46:51 -0400 From: Professor Wei-Chau Xie <xie@uwaterloo.ca> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "tex-fonts@math.utah.edu" <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> CC: xie@uwaterloo.ca Subject: Installing MinionMM for LaTeX Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you Tom (Kacvinsky) very much for your reply. I have two problems with your suggestions: 1. The MinionMM font that I purchased from Adobe (downloaded from internet) came with only two pfb files and some pfm and pss files (instance files). There are no afm files contrary to that noted in "The LaTeX Graphics Companion" (p.406, "Multiple Master fonts comes with a set of master afm files called AMFM). I think the product I obtained from Adobe is genuine, since it works perfectly with Microsoft Word. 2. I have no access to UNIX system and a C++ compiler. I would not be able to use mmafm or mmpfb tools. As mentioned in the previous posting, the instance files created by Adobe Type Manager are one pfm and one pss files. With the pfm and pss files on hand, it seems to me that it is not possible to generate pfb files even using the Y&Y Font Manipulation Tools (in the list of the utilities on p.389 of "The LaTeX Graphics Companion", there is no route that would take pfm or pss to pfb). On p.406 of "The LaTeX Graphics Companion", it is noted that "For LaTeX users, the second method (using the Adobe Type Manager) is the simplest, since the end result is an afm file and the right fragment of PostScript code (a "stub") to download with the font itself." What is a "stub" and how to download? The pss files are shown as "PostScript Printer Stub" on my Windows 95 system, but there is no mention of the pss files in the book. Furthermore, the Adobe Type Manager did not create any afm files. Am I missing some points or not using the Adobe Type Manager correctly. It is also noted on p.406 of "The LaTeX Graphics Companion" that "If LaTeX is being run in an environment with a previewer and/or printer driver making use of ATM, this system is very convenient. The commercial Windows TeX system from Y&Y fully supports and documents the procedure,..." If I purchase the Y&Y TeX system, would I be able to use MinionMM font as I do with Microsoft Word without all these setup and file type conversions? Is this what the authors meant? Thank you very much for your attention and reply. -- Wei-Chau Xie, Ph.D. Associate Professor and Associate Chair for Undergraduate Studies Department of Civil Engineering Faculty of Engineering University of Waterloo Waterloo, Ontario, Canada N2L 3G1 Phone: (519)888-4567, ext.3988 Fax: (519)888-6197 E-mail: xie@uwaterloo.ca Homepage: http://sunburn.uwaterloo.ca/~xie 7-Jul-1999 8:30:51-GMT,4074;000000000000 Return-Path: <sebastian.rahtz@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> Received: from oxmail.ox.ac.uk (oxmail1.ox.ac.uk [129.67.1.1]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA25119 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 02:30:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ermine.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.2.13]) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #1) id 111n6O-000616-00; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 09:30:48 +0100 Received: from spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.15.17] ident=rahtz) by ermine.ox.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 111n6O-0006AW-00; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 09:30:48 +0100 From: Sebastian Rahtz <sebastian.rahtz@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14211.7768.927749.881175@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 09:31:04 +0000 (GMT) To: xie@uwaterloo.ca Cc: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: Installing MinionMM for LaTeX In-Reply-To: <3782BF9B.71670216@uwaterloo.ca> References: <3782BF9B.71670216@uwaterloo.ca> X-Mailer: VM 6.71 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Professor Wei-Chau Xie writes: > 1. The MinionMM font that I purchased from Adobe (downloaded from > internet) came with only two pfb files and some pfm and pss files > (instance files). There are no afm files contrary to that noted in "The > LaTeX Graphics Companion" (p.406, "Multiple Master fonts comes with a > set of master afm files called AMFM). I think the product I obtained it does seem that Adobe no longer ship the AMFM files. You *can* get these for download from Adobe (if you can locate them), but its very annoying that they fail to give the stuff by default > 2. I have no access to UNIX system and a C++ compiler. I would not be > able to use mmafm or mmpfb tools. there are free C++ compilers for whatever system you are on > As mentioned in the previous posting, the instance files created by > Adobe Type Manager are one pfm and one pss files. > With the pfm and pss files on hand, it seems to me that it is not > possible to generate pfb files even using the Y&Y Font Manipulation > Tools (in the list of the utilities on p.389 of "The LaTeX Graphics > Companion", there is no route that would take pfm or pss to pfb). you send the .pss *and* the .pfb. so looking at one of my map files, I see zmnmi8x72 zmnmi8x72 <MinionMM-ItEp.pfb <zmnmi8x72.pss ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ the font the instance once the main font is loaded, the .pss file can refer to it > since the end result is an afm file and the right fragment of PostScript > code (a "stub") to download with the font itself." What is a "stub" and > how to download? The pss files are shown as "PostScript Printer Stub" > on my Windows 95 system, but there is no mention of the pss files yes, the .pss files are what we meant by "stub". sorry, we wrote that book in isolation from Windows terminology. > book. Furthermore, the Adobe Type Manager did not create any afm files. > Am I missing some points or not using the Adobe Type Manager correctly. Probably my misunderstanding of ATM at the time. it made the pfm file, at least > procedure,..." If I purchase the Y&Y TeX system, would I be able to use > MinionMM font as I do with Microsoft Word without all these setup and > file type conversions? Is this what the authors meant? yes. indeed. so either a) find the AMFM files at Adobe, and follow the manual route b) take the ATM stuff you have done, and simple convert the pfm to tfm for TeX (Y&Y sell font manipulation tools which should do this) c) use the entire Y&Y system which takes care of the details for you to be honest, if you don't want to be a power TeX-font-guru, and have couple of hundred dollars in your departmental budget, I'd advise (c). Y&Y ship a very good TeX system, well supported. Thats not to say that the other commercial Windows TeX vendors don't also have good systems, but I don't _think_ they offer the same easy ways of creating metrics for new fonts. Sebastian 7-Jul-1999 16:58:45-GMT,1891;000000000000 Return-Path: <tjk@ams.org> Received: from sun06.ams.org (sun06.ams.org [130.44.1.6]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08704 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 10:58:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by sun06.ams.org (PMDF V5.1-10 #27147) id <0FEI00B01F5VXB@sun06.ams.org> for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 12:58:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sun06.ams.org by sun06.ams.org (PMDF V5.1-10 #27147) with ESMTP id <0FEI00AQMF5V2O@sun06.ams.org> for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Wed, 07 Jul 1999 12:58:43 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 12:58:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Tom Kacvinsky <tjk@ams.org> Subject: Re: Installing MinionMM for LaTeX In-reply-to: <14211.7768.927749.881175@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> To: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Message-id: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9907071252450.13510-100000@sun06.ams.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi, > > it does seem that Adobe no longer ship the AMFM files. You *can* get > these for download from Adobe (if you can locate them), but its very > annoying that they fail to give the stuff by default > I am not sure about the AMFM files not shipping with the font. I have always gotten the AMFM/AFM files with the fonts I have purchased from Adobe. But if you need to get the files from their ftp server, fist go to www.adobe.com/type and find out the package number for the particular font (Minion MM is package 276), and then go to ftp://ftp.adobe.com/pub/adobe/type/mac/all/afmfiles/ And find the directory in which would contain that package number. For instance, for Minion MM, the URL would be: ftp://ftp.adobe.com/pub/adobe/type/mac/all/afmfiles/276-300/ The AMFM and AFM files will be in this directory, bundled loosely, so you will have to do some sorting. There are a lot of files related to Minion MM (and Minion MM Expert). Regards, Tom 12-Jul-1999 16:24:59-GMT,4924;000000000000 Return-Path: <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Received: from mail-out-0.tiac.net (mail-out-0.tiac.net [199.0.65.247]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27989 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 10:24:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail-out-3.tiac.net (mail-out-3.tiac.net [199.0.65.15]) by mail-out-0.tiac.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA19648; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 12:24:53 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from bkph@ai.mit.edu) Received: from Y-9W4ZXVHWLQKOV (p5.tc8.metro.MA.tiac.com [209.61.76.134]) by mail-out-3.tiac.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA17679; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 12:24:50 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from bkph@ai.mit.edu) Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990712121148.017ede30@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 12:24:03 -0400 To: Professor Wei-Chau Xie <xie@uwaterloo.ca>, "tex-fonts@math.utah.edu" <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Subject: Re: Installing MinionMM for LaTeX Cc: xie@uwaterloo.ca In-Reply-To: <3782BF9B.71670216@uwaterloo.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:46 PM 7/6/99 -0400, Professor Wei-Chau Xie wrote: >1. The MinionMM font that I purchased from Adobe (downloaded from >internet) came with only two pfb files and some pfm and pss files >(instance files). Right, MM fonts do not come with AFM files, and the mythical AMFM files generally are not to be found. >As mentioned in the previous posting, the instance files created by >Adobe Type Manager are one pfm and one pss files. >With the pfm and pss files on hand, it seems to me that it is not >possible to generate pfb files even using the Y&Y Font Manipulation >Tools (in the list of the utilities on p.389 of "The LaTeX Graphics >Companion", there is no route that would take pfm or pss to pfb). Making separate PFBs for instances of an MM font is not only non-trivial, but sort of defeats the purpose, because then every instance will be large (containing a large part of the master) rather than a "PS stub" and a single common PFB. >On p.406 of "The LaTeX Graphics Companion", it is noted that "For LaTeX >users, the second method (using the Adobe Type Manager) is the simplest, >since the end result is an afm file and the right fragment of PostScript >code (a "stub") to download with the font itself." What is a "stub" and >how to download? The pss files are shown as "PostScript Printer Stub" >on my Windows 95 system, but there is no mention of the pss files in the >book. The PSS stub files have a format very much like PFB files (with section and length fields in binary) and an ASCII section that may look like %!PS-AdobeFont-1.0 MyriadMM-It_215_LT_300_CN 001.000 /MyriadMM-It_215_LT_300_CN /MyriadMM-It findfont [1 0 0 0] makeblendedfont dup /FontName /MyriadMM-It_215_LT_300_CN put definefont pop This could be extracted and patched together with the master font in PFA format to create something useable. (PSS stubs are no longer used in Window NT and it's descendent Windows 2000). >Furthermore, the Adobe Type Manager did not create any afm files. >Am I missing some points or not using the Adobe Type Manager correctly. ATM never creates AFM files. It can *use* AFM files during installation if no PFM file is supplied --- but then needs in addition an INF file to supply the information missing from AFM (such as the font menu name). >It is also noted on p.406 of "The LaTeX Graphics Companion" that "If >LaTeX is being run in an environment with a previewer and/or printer >driver making use of ATM, this system is very convenient. The commercial >Windows TeX system from Y&Y fully supports and documents the >procedure,..." If I purchase the Y&Y TeX system, would I be able to use >MinionMM font as I do with Microsoft Word without all these setup and >file type conversions? Is this what the authors meant? Yes, its rather easy. You install the font(s) using ATM. You then use ATM to create the instances you want. Then from the previewer select "Fonts > WriteTFM" and select each instance in turn that you want to work with. Note the names of the TFM files created. Then refer to these TFMs either directly using \font in plain TEX, or via LaTeX 2e's PSNFSS mechanism. You may want to set up a short .fd file --- modelled on an existing .fd file --- to make this more convenient. And that's it. The instances you chose will be used in preview on screen, when printing to a PS device, and when printing to non-PS device. In the case of non-PS device, ATM does the rasterization. In the case of PS device, the PS driver even does partial font downloading on the master font (combining the demands of all the instances derived from that master). Regards, Berthold Horn. DISCLAIMER: In case it isn't obvious: I have connections with Y&Y :-) Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu 12-Jul-1999 16:28:36-GMT,3458;000000000000 Return-Path: <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Received: from mail-out-0.tiac.net (mail-out-0.tiac.net [199.0.65.247]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA28135 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 10:28:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail-out-1.tiac.net (mail-out-1.tiac.net [199.0.65.12]) by mail-out-0.tiac.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA22982; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 12:28:32 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from bkph@ai.mit.edu) Received: from Y-9W4ZXVHWLQKOV (p5.tc8.metro.MA.tiac.com [209.61.76.134]) by mail-out-1.tiac.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA02684; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 12:09:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990712115556.017d0d60@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 12:07:13 -0400 To: Professor Wei-Chau Xie <xie@uwaterloo.ca>, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Subject: Re: Installing MinionMM for LaTeX Cc: xie@uwaterloo.ca In-Reply-To: <378297B6.F994FFE7@uwaterloo.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:56 PM 7/6/99 -0400, Professor Wei-Chau Xie wrote: >I have purchased Adobe MinionMM font and Adobe Type Manager Deluxe 4.0, >hoping that I could install MinionMM font for LaTeX. I have TeX Live 4 >implementation of LaTeX on my system (Windows 95); all the files needed >for latex are in proper places and I could latex a sample file >correctly. > >To run dvips, I need pfb files, such as pmnr8a.pfb, as specified in >psfonts.map. The book "The LaTeX Graphics Companion" (p.406) says that >the Multiple Master fonts can be easily manipulated using Adobe Type >Manager, but does not offer any instructions. The MinionMM font that I >purchased from Adobe comes with two pfb files, i.e., ZGI_____.pfb and >ZGRG____.pfb, and some instance pss files. When I use Adobe Type Manager >to generate font instances, such as weight 415, width 535, and size 11 >as suggested by "The LaTeX Graphic Companion", two files were created, >i.e., ZGRG_HY0.pfm and ZGRG_HY0.pss. These files work perfectly with >Windows applications such as Microsoft Word but cannot be used with >dvips (I have tried renamed the files). > >My question is how to generate the pfb files that can be used by dvips >with Adobe Type Manager. I appreciate very much any instructions and >suggestions that you may offer me. It's not that easy. You need special support in your TeX system for multiple master fonts. (1) For TeX, you have to be able to generate metric files for in-between "instances." Since there are no AFM files, you can't use AFM2TFM or fontinst. And the format of the MMM metric files is not documented. (2) For PS output, you have to be able to create the appropriate PS "stubs" that massage the master PFB into the appropriate "instance". Older versions of ATM on older versions of Windows create "PS stub" files (.pss) for you that you may be able to use. Recent versions instead modify the PS font handling operators to automatically create the instance based on the decorated font name. The "Printer Font Metric" (.pfm) file has the metrics needed to construct the TFM (except for character bounding boxes). But you need to first translate it into something like AFM format. Regards, Berthold Horn (Y&Y TeX is well suited for using MM fonts with TeX :-) including partial font downloading for MM fonts). Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu 12-Jul-1999 16:57:25-GMT,1150;000000000000 Return-Path: <tjk@ams.org> Received: from sun06.ams.org (sun06.ams.org [130.44.1.6]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29210 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 10:57:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by sun06.ams.org (PMDF V5.1-10 #27147) id <0FER00H01OFGL6@sun06.ams.org> for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 12:57:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sun06.ams.org by sun06.ams.org (PMDF V5.1-10 #27147) with ESMTP id <0FER00FYOOFGPX@sun06.ams.org> for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 12:57:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 12:57:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Tom Kacvinsky <tjk@ams.org> Subject: Re: Installing MinionMM for LaTeX In-reply-to: <4.2.0.58.19990712115556.017d0d60@mail.ai.mit.edu> To: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Message-id: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9907121255230.7819-100000@sun06.ams.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi, > And the format of the MMM metric files is not documented. ^^^ MM? AMFM files (MM metrics) are documented in this PDF file: http://partners.adobe.com/asn/developer/PDFS/TN/5004.AFM_Spec.pdf 13-Jul-1999 13:24:01-GMT,1618;000000000000 Return-Path: <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA29731 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 07:24:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from MAURITIUS (maui.ai.mit.edu [128.52.37.105]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.3/AI2.13/ai.master.life:2.6) with ESMTP id JAA12793; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 09:23:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990713091856.00a42c08@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 09:22:48 -0400 To: Tom Kacvinsky <tjk@ams.org>, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Subject: Re: Installing MinionMM for LaTeX In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9907121255230.7819-100000@sun06.ams.org> References: <4.2.0.58.19990712115556.017d0d60@mail.ai.mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:57 PM 7/12/99 -0400, Tom Kacvinsky wrote: > > And the format of the MMM metric files is not documented. > ^^^ MM? > >AMFM files (MM metrics) are documented in this PDF file: > >http://partners.adobe.com/asn/developer/PDFS/TN/5004.AFM_Spec.pdf I did mean MMM, which is the compact binary metric file format used for MM metrics. When you install MM fonts with ATM you get PFB for the master, PFMs for each of the predefined instances, and an MMM file from which additional PFMs are constructed by ATM when you make new instances. Regards, Berthold Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph/bkph.html 15-Jul-1999 17:17:25-GMT,4887;000000000000 Return-Path: <mackay@cs.washington.edu> Received: from june.cs.washington.edu (june.cs.washington.edu [128.95.1.4]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19796 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 11:17:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: (mackay@localhost) by june.cs.washington.edu (8.8.7+CS/7.2ju) id KAA19452; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 10:17:22 -0700 Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 10:17:22 -0700 From: mackay@cs.washington.edu (Pierre MacKay) Message-Id: <199907151717.KAA19452@june.cs.washington.edu> To: TeXhax@tex.ac.uk, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: type1 version of ibycus polytonic greek A Type1 version of the Ibycus Greek font (regular weight only) is available on orhan.classics.washington.edu, in the directory /ftp/pub/tex. The files are bundled into either psibycus.tgz or psibycus.zip, to suit the convenience of both the elect and the infidel. This is a preliminary release, because the font is still largely unhinted. I will ultimately provide a rather thorough set of hints, since the primary purpose for making up this font was to get away from the crude bitmap scaling that is all you can get out of PDF readers. Hinting, however, is even worse than filing matrices. It is a soul-destroying bore, and I cannot do very much of it at any given session. The absence of hints will not be noticed at resolutions of 600dpi and above. The font has a private UniqueID in the open range for now, but a registered UniqueID will be applied for. The original METAFONT realization of ibycus4 remains the controlling form of the font. The TeX user will see absolutely no difference in the set-widths of the Type1 font because the TFM file for it is exactly the same as the TFM file for the METAFONT version. (In a Unix environment, they could be joined by hard or symbolic links.) The Type1 control points have been derived from METAFONT log output generated by "tracingspecs". This is not impossible, as has sometimes been claimed, but it does take work. The bundle consists of: 1. IbycusHTG-Regular.pfa ( = fibr.pfa = IBYHTGR_.PFB ). The character designs are Silvio Levi's. Some small differences in accent positioning and vertical positioning on the classic METAFONT typeface grid have been allowed. My own lowercase lunate sigma has been improved. These changes will ultimately be read back into the ibycus4 METAFONT source. 2. fibr.tfm (identical with fibr84.tfm). The use of the Type1 font is specified by calling on fibr, rather than fibr84. Obliqued and bold versions of the font are still exclusively METAFONT. They will continue to be invoked as fibo84[89]? and fibb84[89]? until I make up Type1 versions of them (if I ever do). 3. fibr.vf, which serves to provide a reference into a dvips map file. The raw TFM for this VF file is fibr84.tfm, which has the interesting effect of making METAFONT generated PK files a fail-safe alternative when the dvips map lookup fails. The checksums for fibr.tfm fibr84.tfm and fibr.vf are identical. This is arbitrary, since fibr.vf has integer escapement values rounded from the METAFONT values in the tfm files. 4. config.iby and iby.map. The iby.map file shows how to associate fibr84 with IbycusHTG-Regular. fibr84 IbycusHTG-Regular <IbycusHTG-Regular.pfa or fibr84 IbycusHTG-Regular <fibr.pfa This line can be copied into psfonts.map for general use. 5. IbycusHTG-Regular.afm and IbycusHTG.enc. These are provided for information only. The AFM file contains only the character info and the pair-kerning data. There is no point in going further since the Adobe convention for AFM is incapable of specifying the ligature sequences needed for ibycus4. The encoding file could supply both ligatures and pair-kerns, but to what purpose? 6. Various TeX input files rewritten to use the fibr invocation in place of the fibr84 invocation. (This is the only change that users will need to make, other than installing the above files in the TEXMF directory tree). IbycusHTG-Regular is licensed without charge for use in the creation of documents in all media, in accordance with the included copyright notice. Users are welcome and indeed encouraged to adapt the font to other typesetting systems. Note that iota subscript is applied to the affected vowel as a following zero-width character kerned drastically to the left. (Other well-known Polytonic Greek fonts do the same thing. This trick saves many, many glyph spaces for more constructive use.) mackay@cs.washington.edu Pierre A. MacKay Smail: Department of Classics Emeritus Druid for Denny Hall, Box 353110 Unix-flavored TeX University of Washington Seattle, WA 98195 (206) 543-2268 (Message recorder) 26-Jul-1999 22:03:19-GMT,1701;000000000000 Return-Path: <jlbraams@cistron.nl> Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14506 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 16:03:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cistron.nl (IDENT:root@mikmak.cistron.nl [195.64.66.253]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA23716 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 18:03:13 -0400 Received: from mikmak (jlbraams@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cistron.nl (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA24025 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 23:57:03 +0200 Message-Id: <199907262157.XAA24025@cistron.nl> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 To: tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: typeface.map from tex-live 4 X-organisation: TeXniek X-address: Kooienswater 62, 2715 AJ Zoetermeer, The Netherlands X-phone: +31 79 352 28 19 X-fax: +31 70 343 67 61 X-URL: http://www.cistron.nl/~jlbraams/ X-Face: '-&yCsv_VMK]*E^s/)\-E$%PXQm?R$OVixN]wETlOcM,n-uKK1'-QP0u.oE/;bFOA16^3<o UVE!C<&>uOz0~wCJTy=#)HGwFj`SE}^aHH*aZIy07N6}SNw<.LR#d*m)RcF>!Z!({.OX!T&}4!a2@5 AF1VEwuCJx"OvkZN#0X^W{&Cn"6mNpO",M*j7::c#7rC=PbxA>Of*Nz(hD2:#IQ%kjMnB4XoaorR,u ;u-{z?}ZNo!daHKF"V_b@N/ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 23:57:02 +0200 From: "Johannes L. Braams" <jlbraams@cistron.nl> Hi, While upgrading from TeX-Live 3 to TeX-Live 4 I noticed that the typeface Scala has made it into typeface.map. Odly though, Scala Sans hasn't made it. I have been using 0sa for Scala and 0ss for Scala Sans. If you want I can provide a fontfont.map for the Scala and Scala Sans fonts I have been working on. Including it also needs a change in texfonts.map. Kind regards, Johannes Braams 30-Jul-1999 20:02:18-GMT,1289;000000000000 Return-Path: <karl@cs.umb.edu> Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08904 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 14:02:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cs.umb.edu (root@cs.umb.edu [158.121.104.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA14130 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 16:02:16 -0400 Received: from hub.cs.umb.edu (karl@hub.cs.umb.edu [158.121.104.161]) by cs.umb.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA21922; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 16:02:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Karl Berry <karl@cs.umb.edu> Received: (from karl@localhost) by hub.cs.umb.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA13028; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 16:02:12 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 16:02:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199907302002.QAA13028@hub.cs.umb.edu> To: jlbraams@cistron.nl Cc: tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: Re: typeface.map from tex-live 4 Odly though, Scala Sans hasn't made it. I guess I was hoping that the s variant would suffice. Should have known better. Actually I don't remember when this got added. I guess we could give s9 to scala sans. If you want I can provide a fontfont.map for the Scala and Scala Sans fonts I have been working on. Including it also needs a change in texfonts.map. fontfont? Thanks, K 8-Aug-1999 13:17:28-GMT,2243;000000000000 Return-Path: <vvv@vvv.vsu.ru> Received: from relay2.vsu.ru (postfix@ftp.vsu.ru [62.76.169.7]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA11222 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 07:17:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by relay2.vsu.ru (Postfix, from userid 5) id 8C2B61885; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 17:16:59 +0400 (MSD) Received: (from vvv@localhost) by vvv.vsu.ru (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA02852; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 17:12:19 +0400 To: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu, tech-suport@ams.org Subject: typos in AFM files for AMS WNCY fonts From: Vladimir Volovich <vvv@vvv.vsu.ru> Date: 08 Aug 1999 17:12:19 +0400 Message-ID: <m3vhaqmn64.fsf@vvv.vsu.ru> Lines: 35 User-Agent: Gnus/5.070095 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.95) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, the following five AFM files for AMS Washington Cyrillic fonts: wncyb10.afm wncyi10.afm wncyr10.afm wncysc10.afm wncyss10.afm have two typos for ligatures: 1) they say that e + 0 -> ishort, while it should be e + 0 -> yo 2) they say that i + 0 -> yo, while it should be i + 0 -> ishort For example, here is a diff for wncyr10.afm which corrects these typos: --- wncyr10.afm.orig Sun Aug 8 17:03:51 1999 +++ wncyr10.afm Sun Aug 8 17:05:12 1999 @@ -128,11 +128,11 @@ C 98 ; WX 581.938 ; N b ; B 74 -11 536 707 ; C 99 ; WX 550 ; N c ; B 26 -124 566 431 ; L one tsoft ; L h q ; C 100 ; WX 572.216 ; N d ; B 5 -124 601 431 ; L one dj ; L two dzh ; L three zelo ; L j dj ; -C 101 ; WX 494.438 ; N e ; B 45 -11 450 448 ; L zero ishort ; L one ze ; L two ye ; +C 101 ; WX 494.438 ; N e ; B 45 -11 450 448 ; L zero yo ; L one ze ; L two ye ; C 102 ; WX 669.436 ; N f ; B 67 -264 613 691 ; C 103 ; WX 483.326 ; N g ; B 26 0 439 428 ; C 104 ; WX 550 ; N h ; B 34 0 515 431 ; -C 105 ; WX 588.88 ; N i ; B 26 0 562 431 ; L zero yo ; L one iroman ; +C 105 ; WX 588.88 ; N i ; B 26 0 562 431 ; L zero short ; L one iroman ; C 106 ; WX 348.606 ; N j ; B -24 -205 233 669 ; L one ya ; L two yu ; C 107 ; WX 504.161 ; N k ; B 18 -7 491 438 ; L h h ; C 108 ; WX 591.659 ; N l ; B 53 0 549 431 ; L one lj ; L j lj ; Other ligatures in AFM files appear to be correct (exactly correspond to TFM files for WNCY fonts). Best regards, -- Vladimir. 14-Aug-1999 10:52:46-GMT,3002;000000000000 Return-Path: <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Received: from mail-out-0.tiac.net (mail-out-0.tiac.net [199.0.65.247]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA07936 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 04:52:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail-out-3.tiac.net (mail-out-3.tiac.net [199.0.65.15]) by mail-out-0.tiac.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA12431; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 06:52:44 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from bkph@ai.mit.edu) Received: from Y-9W4ZXVHWLQKOV (p70.tc1.metro.MA.tiac.com [209.61.75.71]) by mail-out-3.tiac.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA28732; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 06:52:43 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from bkph@ai.mit.edu) Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990814064944.00a52070@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 06:52:04 -0400 To: Vladimir Volovich <vvv@vvv.vsu.ru>, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu, tech-suport@ams.org From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Subject: Re: typos in AFM files for AMS WNCY fonts In-Reply-To: <m3vhaqmn64.fsf@vvv.vsu.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi: You are right. Sorry about that. Thanks for the correction. Since these AFMs were made in 1992, I suspect the ligature fields may have been filled in by hand rather than using TFMtoAFM. Hence the potential for typos like that... Regards, Berthold Horn At 05:12 PM 8/8/99 +0400, Vladimir Volovich wrote: >the following five AFM files for AMS Washington Cyrillic fonts: > > wncyb10.afm wncyi10.afm wncyr10.afm wncysc10.afm wncyss10.afm > >have two typos for ligatures: > >1) they say that e + 0 -> ishort, while it should be e + 0 -> yo >2) they say that i + 0 -> yo, while it should be i + 0 -> ishort > >For example, here is a diff for wncyr10.afm which corrects these >typos: > >--- wncyr10.afm.orig Sun Aug 8 17:03:51 1999 >+++ wncyr10.afm Sun Aug 8 17:05:12 1999 >@@ -128,11 +128,11 @@ > C 98 ; WX 581.938 ; N b ; B 74 -11 536 707 ; > C 99 ; WX 550 ; N c ; B 26 -124 566 431 ; L one tsoft ; L h q ; > C 100 ; WX 572.216 ; N d ; B 5 -124 601 431 ; L one dj ; L two dzh ; L three zelo ; L j dj ; >-C 101 ; WX 494.438 ; N e ; B 45 -11 450 448 ; L zero ishort ; L one ze ; L two ye ; >+C 101 ; WX 494.438 ; N e ; B 45 -11 450 448 ; L zero yo ; L one ze ; L two ye ; > C 102 ; WX 669.436 ; N f ; B 67 -264 613 691 ; > C 103 ; WX 483.326 ; N g ; B 26 0 439 428 ; > C 104 ; WX 550 ; N h ; B 34 0 515 431 ; >-C 105 ; WX 588.88 ; N i ; B 26 0 562 431 ; L zero yo ; L one iroman ; >+C 105 ; WX 588.88 ; N i ; B 26 0 562 431 ; L zero short ; L one iroman ; > C 106 ; WX 348.606 ; N j ; B -24 -205 233 669 ; L one ya ; L two yu ; > C 107 ; WX 504.161 ; N k ; B 18 -7 491 438 ; L h h ; > C 108 ; WX 591.659 ; N l ; B 53 0 549 431 ; L one lj ; L j lj ; > >Other ligatures in AFM files appear to be correct (exactly correspond >to TFM files for WNCY fonts). > > Best regards, -- Vladimir. Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu 22-Aug-1999 22:35:47-GMT,1426;000000000000 Return-Path: <Johannes_Dengler@MCKINSEY.COM> Received: from n-gauntlet1.fi.mckinsey.com (firewall-user@igate1.mckinsey.com [204.151.168.146]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08541 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 16:35:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by n-gauntlet1.fi.mckinsey.com; id SAA16791; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 18:35:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from na-gateways02.notes.mckinsey.com(157.191.168.25) by n-gauntlet1.fi.mckinsey.com via smap (V4.2) id xma016705; Sun, 22 Aug 99 18:34:45 -0400 Received: by NA-GATEWAYS02.NOTES.MCKINSEY.COM(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.2 (600.1 3-26-1998)) id 852567D5.007D01BE ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 18:45:24 -0400 X-Lotus-FromDomain: MCKINSEY From: "Johannes Dengler" <Johannes_Dengler@MCKINSEY.COM> To: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Message-ID: <C12567D5.007B2DCE.00@NA-GATEWAYS02.NOTES.MCKINSEY.COM> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 00:29:17 +0200 Subject: Question re. latex fonts for Microsoft Office applications Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline I am working on my phd thesis, using Latex for typesetting and Microsoft Powerpoint for exhibits. Thus far, I have used the Latex standard fonts for text and tables, and Helvetica in Powerpoint. How can I use Latex fonts in Powerpoint as well, i.e. is there an Adobe True Type or Type 1 conversion for these fonts available? Thanks and best regards, Johannes Dengler 23-Aug-1999 0:06:39-GMT,1778;000000000000 Return-Path: <kuhlmav@elec.canterbury.ac.nz> Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA10716 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 18:06:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.30.3]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA27586 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 20:06:36 -0400 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by its.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V5.2-32 #39167) id <01JF3U3KJ0A88ZF00C@its.canterbury.ac.nz> for tex-fonts@tug.org; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 12:06:32 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from andromeda.elec.canterbury.ac.nz (andromeda.elec.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.50.31]) by its.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V5.2-32 #39167) with ESMTP id <01JF3U3KEPYQ8ZFJND@its.canterbury.ac.nz> for tex-fonts@tug.org; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 12:06:32 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: (from kuhlmav@localhost) by andromeda.elec.canterbury.ac.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA18735 for tex-fonts@tug.org; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 12:06:27 +1200 (NZST) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 12:06:27 +1200 (NZST) From: Volker Kuhlmann <kuhlmav@elec.canterbury.ac.nz> Subject: Re: Question re. latex fonts for Microsoft Office applications To: tex-fonts@tug.org Message-id: <199908230006.MAA18735@andromeda.elec.canterbury.ac.nz> X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII > How can I use Latex fonts in Powerpoint as well, i.e. is there an Adobe > True Type or > Type 1 conversion for these fonts available? There are type 1 versions of the cm (computer modern) fonts on CTAN. How you get them to work with powerpoint I don't know, and this is probably the wrong place to ask. I would have thought the real question would be "how can I shift my PP material to LaTeX?" :-) Volker 24-Aug-1999 2:16:37-GMT,2162;000000000000 Return-Path: <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA19751 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 20:16:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from THOMPSON-COZYKU (p149.tc1.state.MA.tiac.com [207.60.61.150]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.3/AI2.13/ai.master.life:2.8) with ESMTP id UAA09382; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 20:06:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990823195627.00a51bc0@ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@ai.mit.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 20:05:16 -0400 To: "Johannes Dengler" <Johannes_Dengler@MCKINSEY.COM>, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu From: Berthold Horn <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Subject: Re: Question re. latex fonts for Microsoft Office applications In-Reply-To: <C12567D5.007B2DCE.00@NA-GATEWAYS02.NOTES.MCKINSEY.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 12:29 AM 8/23/1999 +0200, Johannes Dengler wrote: >I am working on my phd thesis, using Latex for typesetting and Microsoft >Powerpoint for exhibits. Thus far, I have used the Latex standard fonts >for text and >tables, and Helvetica in Powerpoint. > >How can I use Latex fonts in Powerpoint as well, i.e. is there an Adobe >True Type or Type 1 conversion for these fonts available? Type 1 versions of the CM and AMS and extra LaTeX fonts were made available by a Consortium including AMS, BSR, Y&Y, SIAM etc. See http://www.ams.org/index/tex/type1-fonts.html These can be used with any Windows or Mac application. You will want ATM (Adobe Type Manager). Recently Adobe made ATM 4.0 Lite for various platform on CD for very much less than ATM Deluxe (although right now I can't find it on their site - but I did order and receive a copy). Conversely, you can of course use Type 1 fonts with TeX systems, although some older ones do make it remarkably painful. So it works both ways. Also, with some TeX Systems :-) you can transfer TeX typeset material to PowerPoint and paste them into PowerPoint pages. Regards, Berthold Horn, Y&Y, Inc. -- http://www.YandY.com/unique.htm 24-Aug-1999 13:04:49-GMT,1069;000000000000 Return-Path: <KNAPPEN@ALPHA.NTP.SPRINGER.DE> Received: from alpha.ntp.springer.de (alpha.ntp.springer.de [192.129.24.9]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA29522 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 07:04:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ALPHA.NTP.SPRINGER.DE by ALPHA.NTP.SPRINGER.DE (PMDF V5.2-32 #35169) id <01JF5EKDNLT00002MZ@ALPHA.NTP.SPRINGER.DE> for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 15:04:55 CE Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 15:04:55 +0000 (CE) From: Joerg Knappen <KNAPPEN@ALPHA.NTP.SPRINGER.DE> Subject: Re: typos in AFM files for AMS WNCY fonts To: vvv@vvv.vsu.ru, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu, tech-suport@ams.org Message-id: <01JF5EKDNLT20002MZ@ALPHA.NTP.SPRINGER.DE> X-VMS-To: IN%"vvv@vvv.vsu.ru", IN%"tex-fonts@math.utah.edu", IN%"tech-suport@ams.org" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Those strange ligatures represent an old bug, long fixed in the METAFONT versions of wncyr. Unfortunate, that this bug survives in the Type-1-Version. --J"org Knappen 24-Aug-1999 13:33:17-GMT,1467;000000000000 Return-Path: <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA00461 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 07:33:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from MAURITIUS ([209.61.77.55]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.3/AI2.13/ai.master.life:2.8) with ESMTP id JAA08353; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 09:31:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990824092813.01831b08@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 09:30:04 -0400 To: Joerg Knappen <KNAPPEN@ALPHA.NTP.SPRINGER.DE>, vvv@vvv.vsu.ru, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu, tech-suport@ams.org From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Subject: Re: typos in AFM files for AMS WNCY fonts In-Reply-To: <01JF5EKDNLT20002MZ@ALPHA.NTP.SPRINGER.DE> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 03:04 PM 8/24/99 +0000, Joerg Knappen wrote: >Those strange ligatures represent an old bug, long fixed in the METAFONT >versions of wncyr. Unfortunate, that this bug survives in the Type-1-Version. Fortunately it appears only in the AFM files (which were made almost ten years ago), and hence has no effect on typesetting. Neither PFB nor PFM have ligature information, only TFM, and those have the correct information now. Regards, Berthold. Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph/bkph.html 4-Sep-1999 19:54:56-GMT,1714;000000000000 Return-Path: <vvv@vvv.vsu.ru> Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10615 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 13:54:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay2.vsu.ru (postfix@mail.vsu.ru [62.76.169.17]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA25387 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 15:54:48 -0400 Received: by relay2.vsu.ru (Postfix, from userid 5) id 2A29A18D3; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 23:54:44 +0400 (MSD) Received: (from vvv@localhost) by vvv.vsu.ru (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA06871; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 23:48:52 +0400 To: Karl Berry <karl@cs.umb.edu>, tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: question about adobe Cyrillic fonts. From: Vladimir Volovich <vvv@vvv.vsu.ru> Date: 04 Sep 1999 23:48:51 +0400 Message-ID: <m3d7vyv4nw.fsf@vvv.vsu.ru> Lines: 19 User-Agent: Gnus/5.070095 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.95) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello, the file adobe.map recommends names font names with `z' encoding for adobe Cyrillic fonts, e.g. it contains a line: pttrz TimesTenCyr-Upright A 354 ttyu____ (there are 21 such lines for Cyrillic fonts in adobe.map). but actually, the encoding in those fonts matches the windows encoding, which has a name `6w'. So, should the adobe.map be corrected? (pttrz -> pttr6w, etc). Also, there is an `LCY' Cyrillic font encoding which is not yet registered in the fontname scheme. We suggest the name `6y'. This encoding is defined in LaTeX Cyrillic bundle, and also in the T2 package (ctan:macros/latex/contrib/supported/t2/cyrfinst/lcy.etx). It is close to the MS-DOS encoding (6d), but is not the same. Best regards, -- Vladimir. 4-Sep-1999 20:48:20-GMT,1215;000000000000 Return-Path: <vvv@vvv.vsu.ru> Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA11809 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 14:48:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay2.vsu.ru (postfix@mail.vsu.ru [62.76.169.17]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA25485 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 16:48:17 -0400 Received: by relay2.vsu.ru (Postfix, from userid 5) id 7088518D3; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 00:48:14 +0400 (MSD) Received: (from vvv@localhost) by vvv.vsu.ru (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA07006; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 00:43:22 +0400 To: Karl Berry <karl@cs.umb.edu>, tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: one more possible typo in adobe.map From: Vladimir Volovich <vvv@vvv.vsu.ru> Date: 05 Sep 1999 00:43:21 +0400 Message-ID: <m3zoz2tnkm.fsf@vvv.vsu.ru> Lines: 10 User-Agent: Gnus/5.070095 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.95) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, adobe.map contains a line: pttbozr TimesTenCyr-BoldInclined A 354 ttybi___ why is the `r' width specified explicitly? shouldn't the font name be simply pttboz ? (or pttbo6w taking into account my prev. letter). Best regards, -- Vladimir. 5-Sep-1999 10:20:43-GMT,1485;000000000000 Return-Path: <karl@cs.umb.edu> Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA27319 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 04:20:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cs.umb.edu (root@cs.umb.edu [158.121.104.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA26382 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 06:20:41 -0400 Received: from hub.cs.umb.edu (karl@hub.cs.umb.edu [158.121.104.161]) by cs.umb.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA02381; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 06:20:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Karl Berry <karl@cs.umb.edu> Received: (from karl@localhost) by hub.cs.umb.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA01601; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 06:20:38 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 06:20:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199909051020.GAA01601@hub.cs.umb.edu> To: tex-fonts@tug.org, vvv@vvv.vsu.ru Subject: Re: one more possible typo in adobe.map why is the `r' width specified explicitly? shouldn't the font name be simply pttboz ? (or pttbo6w taking into account my prev. letter). Sounds right. actually, the encoding in those fonts matches the windows encoding, which has a name `6w'. So, should the adobe.map be corrected? Also sounds right. Also, there is an `LCY' Cyrillic font encoding which is not yet registered in the fontname scheme. We suggest the name `6y'. This Ok. Vladimir, would you like to take over updating the fontname files :)? I'd be happy to give you an account on the machine. Thanks, Karl 5-Sep-1999 11:06:38-GMT,1801;000000000000 Return-Path: <vieth@bluewin.de> Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA28219 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 05:06:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from zarquon.dynamic-ip (vieth@stu1ir5-102-28.ras.tesion.net [195.226.102.28]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA26411 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 07:06:35 -0400 Received: (from vieth@localhost) by zarquon.dynamic-ip (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id NAA00323; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 13:06:06 +0200 Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 13:06:06 +0200 Message-Id: <199909051106.NAA00323@zarquon.dynamic-ip> To: vvv@vvv.vsu.ru CC: karl@cs.umb.edu, tex-fonts@tug.org In-reply-to: <m3d7vyv4nw.fsf@vvv.vsu.ru> (message from Vladimir Volovich on 04 Sep 1999 23:48:51 +0400) Subject: Re: question about adobe Cyrillic fonts. From: Ulrik Vieth <ulrik.vieth@bluewin.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: <m3d7vyv4nw.fsf@vvv.vsu.ru> > Hello, > the file adobe.map recommends names font names with `z' encoding for > adobe Cyrillic fonts, e.g. it contains a line: > pttrz TimesTenCyr-Upright A 354 ttyu____ > (there are 21 such lines for Cyrillic fonts in adobe.map). but > actually, the encoding in those fonts matches the windows encoding, > which has a name `6w'. So, should the adobe.map be corrected? > (pttrz -> pttr6w, etc). Probably, yes. Since I know nothing about Cyrillic encodings, I simply picked `z' as the most generic codes for Cyrillic from variant.map (same for Greek encodings). If you know better, you're welcome to correct me. BTW: If you're doing an update, don't forget about similar cases in monotype.map and linotype{,-cd}.map. Cheers, Ulrik. 5-Sep-1999 15:57:03-GMT,1612;000000000000 Return-Path: <vvv@vvv.vsu.ru> Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA03615 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 09:57:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay2.vsu.ru (postfix@mail.vsu.ru [62.76.169.17]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA27301 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 11:57:01 -0400 Received: by relay2.vsu.ru (Postfix, from userid 5) id 1AF281884; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 19:57:03 +0400 (MSD) Received: (from vvv@localhost) by vvv.vsu.ru (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA01683; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 19:52:02 +0400 To: Ulrik Vieth <ulrik.vieth@bluewin.de> Cc: karl@cs.umb.edu, tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: Re: question about adobe Cyrillic fonts. References: <m3d7vyv4nw.fsf@vvv.vsu.ru> <199909051106.NAA00323@zarquon.dynamic-ip> From: Vladimir Volovich <vvv@vvv.vsu.ru> Date: 05 Sep 1999 19:52:01 +0400 In-Reply-To: Ulrik Vieth's message of "Sun, 5 Sep 1999 13:06:06 +0200" Message-ID: <m37lm5l5jy.fsf@vvv.vsu.ru> Lines: 12 User-Agent: Gnus/5.070095 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.95) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii "UV" == Ulrik Vieth writes: UV> BTW: If you're doing an update, don't forget about similar cases UV> in monotype.map and linotype{,-cd}.map. surely. but are the AFM files for monotype and linotype cyrillic fonts available somewhere for download (adobe's ones are available at ftp.adobe.com)? i do not have monotype and linotype cyrillic type1 fonts, but would like to verify encodings via AFM files, and also create virtual fonts for TeX... Best regards, -- Vladimir. 5-Sep-1999 20:05:54-GMT,119613;000000000000 Return-Path: <vieth@bluewin.de> Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08478 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 14:05:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from zarquon.dynamic-ip (vieth@stu1ir3-102-171.ras.tesion.net [195.226.102.171]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA27680 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 16:05:17 -0400 Received: (from vieth@localhost) by zarquon.dynamic-ip (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id WAA00932; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 22:04:08 +0200 Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 22:04:08 +0200 Message-Id: <199909052004.WAA00932@zarquon.dynamic-ip> To: vvv@vvv.vsu.ru CC: ulrik.vieth@bluewin.de, karl@cs.umb.edu, tex-fonts@tug.org In-reply-to: <m37lm5l5jy.fsf@vvv.vsu.ru> (message from Vladimir Volovich on 05 Sep 1999 19:52:01 +0400) Subject: Re: question about adobe Cyrillic fonts. From: Ulrik Vieth <ulrik.vieth@bluewin.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: <m3d7vyv4nw.fsf@vvv.vsu.ru> <199909051106.NAA00323@zarquon.dynamic-ip> <m37lm5l5jy.fsf@vvv.vsu.ru> Vladimir Volovich writes: > surely. but are the AFM files for monotype and linotype cyrillic fonts > available somewhere for download (adobe's ones are available at > ftp.adobe.com)? i do not have monotype and linotype cyrillic type1 > fonts, but would like to verify encodings via AFM files, and also > create virtual fonts for TeX... I do happen to have a Linotype Font Explorer CD (with complemte AFMs). It is interesting to note that the CD includes two types or Cyrillic ("Cyr" and "CyrA") as well as two types of Greek ("Greek" and "GreekP"). Enclosed are examples of both types for: l_____ TimesTenCyrA-Upright LL 7035 ttzu____ l_____ TimesTenCyr-Upright LL 7003 ttyu____ While the first one ("CyrA") may be useable directly as distributed, the second one ("Cyr") contains some unencoded glyphs, so best use of this font can only be made through reencoding. While we are at the topic of unresolved encodings, I've also included examples of the following: l_____ TimesTenGreek-Upright LL 7021 ttg_____ l_____ TimesTenGreekP-Upright LL 7001 ttp_____ l_____ TimesTenCE-Roman LL 7036 ttxr____ If anyone could identify these encodings, it would be nice to know. Obviously, the variant code "k" is not enough for both Greek variants. As for "CE", all I can tell is that this seems to be a combination of both Latin~1 and Latin~2 amounting to more than 256 glyphs altogether. Cheers, Ulrik. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - StartFontMetrics 2.0 Comment Copyright (c) 1990, 1991, 1992 Adobe Systems Incorporated. All Rights Reserved. Comment Creation Date: Mon Jan 18 10:27:55 1993 Comment UniqueID 1056843 Comment VMusage 32233 41781 FontName TimesTenCyrA-Upright FullName Times 10 Cyrillic A Uprihgt FamilyName TimesTen Weight Regular ItalicAngle 0 IsFixedPitch false FontBBox -52 -239 1000 922 UnderlinePosition -100 UnderlineThickness 50 Version 001.002 Notice Copyright (c) 1990, 1991, 1992 Adobe Systems Incorporated. All Rights Reserved.TimesTen is a trademark of Linotype-Hell AG and/or its subsidiaries. EncodingScheme FontSpecific StartCharMetrics 209 C 32 ; WX 250 ; N space ; B 0 0 0 0 ; C 33 ; WX 334 ; N exclam ; B 109 -8 225 706 ; C 34 ; WX 500 ; N quotedbl ; B 144 425 356 690 ; C 35 ; WX 500 ; N numbersign ; B 23 0 477 690 ; C 36 ; WX 500 ; N dollar ; B 49 -101 451 765 ; C 37 ; WX 1000 ; N percent ; B 109 -10 891 700 ; C 38 ; WX 833 ; N ampersand ; B 47 -10 796 700 ; C 39 ; WX 278 ; N quoteright ; B 72 425 215 690 ; C 40 ; WX 389 ; N parenleft ; B 67 -239 350 751 ; C 41 ; WX 389 ; N parenright ; B 39 -239 322 751 ; C 42 ; WX 500 ; N asterisk ; B 68 282 432 690 ; C 43 ; WX 600 ; N plus ; B 47 0 553 506 ; C 44 ; WX 250 ; N comma ; B 67 -157 210 108 ; C 45 ; WX 333 ; N hyphen ; B 45 202 288 270 ; C 46 ; WX 250 ; N period ; B 67 -8 183 108 ; C 47 ; WX 278 ; N slash ; B 6 -16 272 706 ; C 48 ; WX 500 ; N zero ; B 25 -10 475 700 ; C 49 ; WX 500 ; N one ; B 58 0 418 715 ; C 50 ; WX 500 ; N two ; B 16 0 477 700 ; C 51 ; WX 500 ; N three ; B 25 -10 444 700 ; C 52 ; WX 500 ; N four ; B 19 0 472 700 ; C 53 ; WX 500 ; N five ; B 26 -10 449 720 ; C 54 ; WX 500 ; N six ; B 34 -10 466 715 ; C 55 ; WX 500 ; N seven ; B 12 -10 465 690 ; C 56 ; WX 500 ; N eight ; B 34 -10 466 700 ; C 57 ; WX 500 ; N nine ; B 34 -16 466 700 ; C 58 ; WX 250 ; N colon ; B 67 -8 183 480 ; C 59 ; WX 250 ; N semicolon ; B 67 -157 210 480 ; C 60 ; WX 600 ; N less ; B 47 -10 553 516 ; C 61 ; WX 600 ; N equal ; B 47 130 553 376 ; C 62 ; WX 600 ; N greater ; B 47 -10 553 516 ; C 63 ; WX 500 ; N question ; B 66 -8 434 706 ; C 64 ; WX 800 ; N at ; B 37 -16 763 706 ; C 65 ; WX 889 ; N Yat ; B 21 0 818 690 ; C 67 ; WX 838 ; N Azgrave ; B 21 0 817 922 ; C 68 ; WX 722 ; N Estgrave ; B 22 0 688 922 ; C 69 ; WX 722 ; N Estdieresisacute ; B 22 0 688 922 ; C 70 ; WX 834 ; N Fita ; B 52 -16 782 706 ; C 71 ; WX 611 ; N Hlahol ; B 28 0 589 811 ; C 77 ; WX 500 ; N guillemotright ; B 44 46 456 426 ; C 78 ; WX 500 ; N quotedblleft ; B 61 425 430 690 ; C 81 ; WX 889 ; N Yatacute ; B 21 0 818 922 ; C 82 ; WX 1000 ; N Yus ; B 0 0 1000 690 ; C 83 ; WX 834 ; N Izhegrave ; B 28 0 806 922 ; C 84 ; WX 834 ; N Ongrave ; B 52 -16 782 922 ; C 85 ; WX 778 ; N Ukgrave ; B 16 -16 770 922 ; C 86 ; WX 611 ; N Rciacute ; B 22 0 584 922 ; C 87 ; WX 611 ; N Rcigrave ; B 22 0 584 922 ; C 88 ; WX 778 ; N Izhitsaacute ; B 12 -10 766 922 ; C 89 ; WX 778 ; N Izhitsa ; B 12 -10 766 690 ; C 90 ; WX 1000 ; N Zhivetecaron ; B 10 0 990 922 ; C 91 ; WX 333 ; N bracketleft ; B 88 -233 303 745 ; C 92 ; WX 278 ; N backslash ; B 6 -16 272 706 ; C 93 ; WX 333 ; N bracketright ; B 30 -233 245 745 ; C 94 ; WX 600 ; N asciicircum ; B 91 325 509 690 ; C 95 ; WX 500 ; N underscore ; B 0 -125 500 -75 ; C 96 ; WX 278 ; N quoteleft ; B 63 425 206 690 ; C 97 ; WX 668 ; N yat ; B 28 0 630 549 ; C 99 ; WX 500 ; N azgrave ; B 46 -10 483 700 ; C 100 ; WX 500 ; N estgrave ; B 38 -10 465 700 ; C 101 ; WX 500 ; N estdieresisacute ; B 38 -10 465 700 ; C 102 ; WX 556 ; N fita ; B 38 -10 518 480 ; C 103 ; WX 444 ; N hlahol ; B 21 0 423 582 ; C 105 ; WX 278 ; N dotlessi ; B 21 0 257 480 ; C 109 ; WX 500 ; N guillemotleft ; B 44 46 456 426 ; C 110 ; WX 500 ; N quotedblbase ; B 70 -157 439 108 ; C 111 ; WX 500 ; N quotedblright ; B 70 425 439 690 ; C 113 ; WX 668 ; N yatacute ; B 28 0 630 771 ; C 114 ; WX 780 ; N yus ; B 28 0 752 470 ; C 115 ; WX 556 ; N izhegrave ; B 21 0 535 700 ; C 116 ; WX 556 ; N ongrave ; B 38 -10 518 700 ; C 117 ; WX 500 ; N ukgrave ; B 14 -233 486 700 ; C 118 ; WX 556 ; N rciacute ; B 12 -233 518 700 ; C 119 ; WX 556 ; N rcigrave ; B 12 -233 518 700 ; C 120 ; WX 500 ; N izhitsaacute ; B 14 -8 486 700 ; C 121 ; WX 500 ; N izhitsa ; B 14 -8 486 470 ; C 122 ; WX 778 ; N zhivetecaron ; B 5 0 773 700 ; C 123 ; WX 333 ; N braceleft ; B 53 -233 273 745 ; C 124 ; WX 222 ; N bar ; B 86 -214 136 786 ; C 125 ; WX 333 ; N braceright ; B 60 -233 280 745 ; C 126 ; WX 600 ; N asciitilde ; B 69 187 531 319 ; C 128 ; WX 278 ; N acute ; B 68 528 293 700 ; C 129 ; WX 278 ; N dieresis ; B -12 543 290 645 ; C 130 ; WX 278 ; N breve ; B -3 533 281 690 ; C 131 ; WX 838 ; N Azacute ; B 21 0 817 922 ; C 132 ; WX 722 ; N Estacute ; B 22 0 688 922 ; C 133 ; WX 722 ; N Eukrainacute ; B 52 -16 687 922 ; C 134 ; WX 834 ; N Izheacute ; B 28 0 806 922 ; C 135 ; WX 390 ; N Icyracute ; B 34 0 356 922 ; C 136 ; WX 390 ; N Icyrdieresisacute ; B 4 0 386 922 ; C 137 ; WX 834 ; N Onacute ; B 52 -16 782 922 ; C 138 ; WX 778 ; N Ukacute ; B 16 -16 770 922 ; C 139 ; WX 889 ; N Hardsignacute ; B 21 0 818 922 ; C 140 ; WX 1000 ; N Yeryacute ; B 28 0 978 922 ; C 141 ; WX 722 ; N Eoborotnoyeacute ; B 35 -16 670 922 ; C 142 ; WX 1000 ; N Yuacute ; B 22 -16 958 922 ; C 143 ; WX 722 ; N Yaacute ; B 16 0 694 922 ; C 144 ; WX 278 ; N grave ; B -15 528 210 700 ; C 145 ; WX 378 ; N dieresisacute ; B -2 543 380 715 ; C 146 ; WX 278 ; N caron ; B -23 528 301 700 ; C 147 ; WX 500 ; N azacute ; B 46 -10 483 700 ; C 148 ; WX 500 ; N estacute ; B 38 -10 465 700 ; C 149 ; WX 500 ; N eukrainacute ; B 56 -10 479 700 ; C 150 ; WX 556 ; N izheacute ; B 21 0 535 700 ; C 151 ; WX 278 ; N icyracute ; B 21 0 293 700 ; C 152 ; WX 278 ; N icyrdieresisacute ; B -52 0 330 700 ; C 153 ; WX 556 ; N onacute ; B 38 -10 518 700 ; C 154 ; WX 500 ; N ukacute ; B 14 -233 486 700 ; C 155 ; WX 667 ; N hardsignacute ; B 28 0 629 700 ; C 156 ; WX 778 ; N yeryacute ; B 28 0 740 700 ; C 157 ; WX 500 ; N eoborotnoyeacute ; B 21 -10 444 700 ; C 158 ; WX 833 ; N yuacute ; B 28 -10 795 700 ; C 159 ; WX 500 ; N yaacute ; B 4 0 479 700 ; C 160 ; WX 500 ; N nonbreakingspace ; B 0 0 0 0 ; C 161 ; WX 722 ; N Estdieresis ; B 22 0 688 852 ; C 162 ; WX 834 ; N Dserbian ; B 15 -16 782 690 ; C 163 ; WX 611 ; N Glagolacute ; B 28 0 600 922 ; C 164 ; WX 722 ; N Eukrain ; B 52 -16 687 706 ; C 165 ; WX 556 ; N Zelo ; B 45 -16 511 706 ; C 166 ; WX 390 ; N Icyr ; B 34 0 356 690 ; C 167 ; WX 390 ; N Icyrdieresis ; B 34 0 356 852 ; C 168 ; WX 444 ; N Jcyr ; B 10 -16 422 690 ; C 169 ; WX 1000 ; N Lserbian ; B 7 -16 943 690 ; C 170 ; WX 1000 ; N Nserbian ; B 28 0 943 690 ; C 171 ; WX 889 ; N Tserbian ; 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Tau omikrontonos -92 KPX Tau omikron -92 KPX Tau omegatonos -74 KPX Tau omega -74 KPX Tau nu -92 KPX Tau hyphen -129 KPX Tau epsilon -74 KPX Tau comma -92 KPX Tau colon -50 KPX Tau alpha -92 KPX Tau Omikron -18 KPX Tau O -18 KPX Tau Lambda -50 KPX Tau Alpha -74 KPX Tau A -74 KPX Theta Y -74 KPX Theta Upsilon -74 KPX U period -74 KPX U comma -74 KPX U A -74 KPX Upsilon upsilon -120 KPX Upsilon tau -120 KPX Upsilon sigma -120 KPX Upsilon semicolon -100 KPX Upsilon rho -120 KPX Upsilon psi -120 KPX Upsilon pi -120 KPX Upsilon phitwo -120 KPX Upsilon phi -120 KPX Upsilon period -129 KPX Upsilon omikrontonos -120 KPX Upsilon omikron -120 KPX Upsilon omegatonos -120 KPX Upsilon omega -120 KPX Upsilon o -120 KPX Upsilon nu -129 KPX Upsilon mu -120 KPX Upsilon khi -120 KPX Upsilon kappa -120 KPX Upsilon iota -111 KPX Upsilon hyphen -129 KPX Upsilon eta -120 KPX Upsilon epsilon -111 KPX Upsilon comma -129 KPX Upsilon colon -100 KPX Upsilon alphatonos -120 KPX Upsilon alpha -120 KPX Upsilon 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; N z ; B 12 0 418 470 ; C 123 ; WX 333 ; N braceleft ; B 55 -234 273 744 ; C 124 ; WX 222 ; N bar ; B 86 -214 136 786 ; C 125 ; WX 333 ; N braceright ; B 60 -234 278 744 ; C 126 ; WX 600 ; N asciitilde ; B 69 187 531 319 ; C 130 ; WX 278 ; N quotesinglbase ; B 72 -166 215 101 ; C 132 ; WX 500 ; N quotedblbase ; B 70 -166 439 101 ; C 133 ; WX 1000 ; N ellipsis ; B 108 -8 892 110 ; C 134 ; WX 500 ; N dagger ; B 56 -138 444 690 ; C 135 ; WX 500 ; N daggerdbl ; B 56 -138 444 690 ; C 137 ; WX 1000 ; N perthousand ; B 37 -10 963 700 ; C 138 ; WX 556 ; N Scaron ; B 39 -16 505 916 ; C 139 ; WX 333 ; N guilsinglleft ; B 56 45 278 426 ; C 140 ; WX 556 ; N Sacute ; B 39 -16 505 921 ; C 141 ; WX 667 ; N Tcaron ; B 15 0 653 916 ; C 142 ; WX 722 ; N Zcaron ; B 31 0 706 916 ; C 143 ; WX 722 ; N Zacute ; B 31 0 706 921 ; C 145 ; WX 278 ; N quoteleft ; B 63 439 206 706 ; C 146 ; WX 278 ; N quoteright ; B 72 439 215 706 ; C 147 ; WX 500 ; N quotedblleft ; B 61 439 430 706 ; C 148 ; WX 500 ; N 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; N Scommaaccent ; B 39 -233 505 706 ; C 171 ; WX 500 ; N guillemotleft ; B 44 45 456 426 ; C 172 ; WX 600 ; N logicalnot ; B 47 108 553 376 ; C 173 ; WX 333 ; N hyphen ; B 45 202 288 270 ; C 174 ; WX 800 ; N registered ; B 220 345 580 706 ; C 175 ; WX 722 ; N Zdotaccent ; B 31 0 706 877 ; C 176 ; WX 400 ; N degree ; B 57 414 343 700 ; C 177 ; WX 600 ; N plusminus ; B 47 0 553 506 ; C 178 ; WX 278 ; N ogonek ; B 78 -215 260 1 ; C 179 ; WX 278 ; N lslash ; B 21 0 264 715 ; C 180 ; WX 278 ; N acute ; B 65 559 290 730 ; C 181 ; WX 556 ; N mu ; B 69 -234 545 470 ; C 182 ; WX 600 ; N paragraph ; B 46 -138 506 690 ; C 183 ; WX 250 ; N periodcentered ; B 66 246 184 364 ; C 184 ; WX 278 ; N cedilla ; B 58 -215 266 1 ; C 185 ; WX 500 ; N aogonek ; B 46 -215 483 480 ; C 186 ; WX 389 ; N scommaaccent ; B 34 -233 352 480 ; C 187 ; WX 500 ; N guillemotright ; B 43 46 456 427 ; C 188 ; WX 667 ; N Lcaron ; B 29 0 665 706 ; C 189 ; WX 278 ; N hungarumlaut ; B -33 559 392 730 ; C 190 ; WX 278 ; N lcaron ; B 21 0 324 715 ; C 191 ; WX 444 ; N zdotaccent ; B 12 0 418 686 ; C 192 ; WX 778 ; N Racute ; B 33 0 763 921 ; C 193 ; WX 838 ; N Aacute ; B 21 0 817 921 ; C 194 ; WX 838 ; N Acircumflex ; B 21 0 817 916 ; C 195 ; WX 838 ; N Abreve ; B 21 0 817 907 ; C 196 ; WX 838 ; N Adieresis ; B 21 0 817 877 ; C 197 ; WX 667 ; N Lacute ; B 29 0 665 921 ; C 198 ; WX 722 ; N Cacute ; B 52 -16 713 921 ; C 199 ; WX 722 ; N Ccedilla ; B 52 -215 713 706 ; C 200 ; WX 722 ; N Ccaron ; B 52 -16 713 916 ; C 201 ; WX 722 ; N Eacute ; B 22 0 690 921 ; C 202 ; WX 722 ; N Eogonek ; B 22 -215 690 690 ; C 203 ; WX 722 ; N Edieresis ; B 22 0 690 877 ; C 204 ; WX 722 ; N Ecaron ; B 22 0 690 916 ; C 205 ; WX 389 ; N Iacute ; B 33 0 357 921 ; C 206 ; WX 389 ; N Icircumflex ; B 33 0 357 916 ; C 207 ; WX 833 ; N Dcaron ; B 22 0 772 916 ; C 208 ; WX 833 ; N Dcroat ; B 22 0 772 690 ; C 209 ; WX 778 ; N Nacute ; B 14 0 756 921 ; C 210 ; WX 778 ; N Ncaron ; B 14 0 756 916 ; C 211 ; WX 833 ; N Oacute ; B 52 -16 781 921 ; C 212 ; WX 833 ; N Ocircumflex ; B 52 -16 781 916 ; C 213 ; WX 833 ; N Ohungarumlaut ; B 52 -16 781 921 ; C 214 ; WX 833 ; N Odieresis ; B 52 -16 781 877 ; C 215 ; WX 600 ; N multiply ; B 76 30 524 478 ; C 216 ; WX 778 ; N Rcaron ; B 33 0 763 916 ; C 217 ; WX 833 ; N Uring ; B 23 -16 803 927 ; C 218 ; WX 833 ; N Uacute ; B 23 -16 803 921 ; C 219 ; WX 833 ; N Uhungarumlaut ; B 23 -16 803 921 ; C 220 ; WX 833 ; N Udieresis ; B 23 -16 803 877 ; C 221 ; WX 778 ; N Yacute ; B 14 0 764 921 ; C 222 ; WX 667 ; N Tcommaaccent ; B 15 -233 653 690 ; C 223 ; WX 556 ; N germandbls ; B 16 -10 516 706 ; C 224 ; WX 389 ; N racute ; B 21 0 372 730 ; C 225 ; WX 500 ; N aacute ; B 46 -10 483 730 ; C 226 ; WX 500 ; N acircumflex ; B 46 -10 483 725 ; C 227 ; WX 500 ; N abreve ; B 46 -10 483 716 ; C 228 ; WX 500 ; N adieresis ; B 46 -10 483 686 ; C 229 ; WX 278 ; N lacute ; B 21 0 278 921 ; C 230 ; WX 444 ; N cacute ; B 31 -10 434 730 ; C 231 ; WX 444 ; N ccedilla ; B 31 -215 434 480 ; C 232 ; WX 444 ; N ccaron ; B 31 -10 434 725 ; C 233 ; WX 500 ; N eacute ; B 38 -10 465 730 ; C 234 ; WX 500 ; N eogonek ; B 38 -215 465 480 ; C 235 ; WX 500 ; N edieresis ; B 38 -10 465 686 ; C 236 ; WX 500 ; N ecaron ; B 38 -10 465 725 ; C 237 ; WX 278 ; N iacute ; B 21 0 282 730 ; C 238 ; WX 278 ; N icircumflex ; B -24 0 288 725 ; C 239 ; WX 556 ; N dcaron ; B 38 -10 611 715 ; C 240 ; WX 556 ; N dcroat ; B 38 -10 531 715 ; C 241 ; WX 556 ; N nacute ; B 21 0 535 730 ; C 242 ; WX 556 ; N ncaron ; B 21 0 535 725 ; C 243 ; WX 556 ; N oacute ; B 38 -10 518 730 ; C 244 ; WX 556 ; N ocircumflex ; B 38 -10 518 725 ; C 245 ; WX 556 ; N ohungarumlaut ; B 38 -10 561 730 ; C 246 ; WX 556 ; N odieresis ; B 38 -10 518 686 ; C 247 ; WX 600 ; N divide ; B 47 -10 553 516 ; C 248 ; WX 389 ; N rcaron ; B 13 0 372 725 ; C 249 ; WX 556 ; N uring ; B 21 -10 535 736 ; C 250 ; WX 556 ; N uacute ; B 21 -10 535 730 ; C 251 ; WX 556 ; N uhungarumlaut ; B 21 -10 541 730 ; C 252 ; WX 556 ; N udieresis ; B 21 -10 535 686 ; C 253 ; WX 500 ; N yacute ; B 12 -234 484 730 ; C 254 ; WX 333 ; N tcommaaccent ; B 23 -233 316 612 ; C 255 ; WX 278 ; N dotaccent ; B 89 586 189 686 ; C -1 ; WX 500 ; N ecircumflex ; B 38 -10 465 725 ; C -1 ; WX 838 ; N Amacron ; B 21 0 817 852 ; C -1 ; WX 556 ; N uogonek ; B 21 -215 535 480 ; C -1 ; WX 556 ; N ncommaaccent ; B 21 -233 535 480 ; C -1 ; WX 278 ; N dotlessi ; B 21 0 257 480 ; C -1 ; WX 500 ; N aring ; B 46 -10 483 736 ; C -1 ; WX 334 ; N ordmasculine ; B 3 408 330 700 ; C -1 ; WX 722 ; N Egrave ; B 22 0 690 921 ; C -1 ; WX 500 ; N atilde ; B 46 -10 483 686 ; C -1 ; WX 389 ; N Idieresis ; B 33 0 357 877 ; C -1 ; WX 556 ; N omacron ; B 38 -10 518 661 ; C -1 ; WX 389 ; N Iogonek ; B 33 -215 357 690 ; C -1 ; WX 556 ; N fi ; B 19 0 537 706 ; C -1 ; WX 556 ; N umacron ; B 21 -10 535 661 ; C -1 ; WX 278 ; N commaaccent ; B 84 -233 195 -40 ; C -1 ; WX 481 ; N radical ; B -18 -214 419 786 ; C -1 ; WX 167 ; N fraction ; B -170 -10 337 700 ; C -1 ; WX 722 ; N Delta ; B 28 0 694 700 ; C -1 ; WX 278 ; N circumflex ; B -17 559 295 725 ; C -1 ; WX 556 ; N ugrave ; B 21 -10 535 730 ; C -1 ; WX 278 ; N tilde ; B -26 585 304 686 ; C -1 ; WX 600 ; N greaterequal ; B 47 40 553 614 ; C -1 ; WX 500 ; N amacron ; B 46 -10 483 661 ; C -1 ; WX 519 ; N partialdiff ; B 48 -13 457 720 ; C -1 ; WX 500 ; N agrave ; B 46 -10 483 730 ; C -1 ; WX 389 ; N Idotaccent ; B 33 0 357 877 ; C -1 ; WX 778 ; N Ydieresis ; B 14 0 764 877 ; C -1 ; WX 833 ; N Ograve ; B 52 -16 781 921 ; C -1 ; WX 500 ; N yen ; B -28 0 528 690 ; C -1 ; WX 833 ; N Ugrave ; B 23 -16 803 921 ; C -1 ; WX 593 ; N lozenge ; B 105 -35 488 747 ; C -1 ; WX 278 ; N igrave ; B -36 0 257 730 ; C -1 ; WX 833 ; N Uogonek ; B 23 -215 803 690 ; C -1 ; WX 389 ; N rcommaaccent ; B 21 -233 372 480 ; C -1 ; WX 556 ; N Scedilla ; B 39 -215 505 706 ; C -1 ; WX 556 ; N ntilde ; B 21 0 535 686 ; C -1 ; WX 556 ; N fl ; B 19 0 537 707 ; C -1 ; WX 278 ; N lcommaaccent ; B 21 -233 257 715 ; C -1 ; WX 778 ; N Rcommaaccent ; B 33 -233 763 690 ; C -1 ; WX 500 ; N edotaccent ; B 38 -10 465 686 ; C -1 ; WX 500 ; N egrave ; B 38 -10 465 730 ; C -1 ; WX 556 ; N oslash ; B 38 -116 518 575 ; C -1 ; WX 722 ; N Emacron ; B 22 0 690 852 ; C -1 ; WX 722 ; N summation ; B 45 -214 657 786 ; C -1 ; WX 389 ; N scedilla ; B 34 -215 352 480 ; C -1 ; WX 833 ; N Otilde ; B 52 -16 781 877 ; C -1 ; WX 833 ; N Gcommaaccent ; B 52 -233 806 706 ; C -1 ; WX 833 ; N Eth ; B 22 0 772 690 ; C -1 ; WX 333 ; N exclamdown ; B 108 -234 226 480 ; C -1 ; WX 556 ; N kcommaaccent ; B 21 -233 528 715 ; C -1 ; WX 833 ; N Umacron ; B 23 -16 803 852 ; C -1 ; WX 722 ; N Edotaccent ; B 22 0 690 877 ; C -1 ; WX 778 ; N Ntilde ; B 14 0 756 851 ; C -1 ; WX 300 ; N twosuperior ; B -3 282 297 700 ; C -1 ; WX 278 ; N macron ; B -17 611 295 661 ; C -1 ; WX 556 ; N ucircumflex ; B 21 -10 535 725 ; C -1 ; WX 278 ; N ring ; B 39 536 239 736 ; C -1 ; WX 500 ; N emacron ; B 38 -10 465 661 ; C -1 ; WX 500 ; N gbreve ; B 29 -234 478 716 ; C -1 ; WX 838 ; N Agrave ; B 21 0 817 921 ; C -1 ; WX 556 ; N eth ; B 38 -10 518 715 ; C -1 ; WX 750 ; N onequarter ; B 33 -10 681 700 ; C -1 ; WX 500 ; N cent ; B 58 -177 461 593 ; C -1 ; WX 500 ; N gcommaaccent ; B 29 -234 478 752 ; C -1 ; WX 300 ; N threesuperior ; B 11 274 287 700 ; C -1 ; WX 722 ; N Ecircumflex ; B 22 0 690 916 ; C -1 ; WX 838 ; N Atilde ; B 21 0 817 851 ; C -1 ; WX 278 ; N idieresis ; B -10 0 288 686 ; C -1 ; WX 600 ; N lessequal ; B 47 40 553 614 ; C -1 ; WX 667 ; N ae ; B 32 -10 645 480 ; C -1 ; WX 500 ; N questiondown ; B 66 -234 434 480 ; C -1 ; WX 556 ; N notequal ; B 47 0 553 506 ; C -1 ; WX 500 ; N ydieresis ; B 12 -234 484 686 ; C -1 ; WX 833 ; N Omacron ; B 52 -16 781 852 ; C -1 ; WX 778 ; N oe ; B 38 -10 743 480 ; C -1 ; WX 300 ; N onesuperior ; B 33 282 267 700 ; C -1 ; WX 1000 ; N OE ; B 32 -10 996 700 ; C -1 ; WX 278 ; N iogonek ; B 1 -215 257 690 ; C -1 ; WX 833 ; N Oslash ; B 52 -78 781 766 ; C -1 ; WX 500 ; N sterling ; B 7 -10 486 700 ; C -1 ; WX 500 ; N florin ; B 2 -234 492 704 ; C -1 ; WX 778 ; N Kcommaaccent ; B 29 -233 761 690 ; C -1 ; WX 750 ; N threequarters ; B 25 -10 704 700 ; C -1 ; WX 838 ; N Aring ; B 21 0 817 927 ; C -1 ; WX 556 ; N thorn ; B 15 -234 518 715 ; C -1 ; WX 1000 ; N AE ; B 12 0 980 690 ; C -1 ; WX 833 ; N Gbreve ; B 52 -16 806 706 ; C -1 ; WX 833 ; N Ucircumflex ; B 23 -16 803 916 ; C -1 ; WX 778 ; N Ncommaaccent ; B 14 -233 756 690 ; C -1 ; WX 750 ; N onehalf ; B 33 -10 751 700 ; C -1 ; WX 278 ; N imacron ; B -23 0 289 661 ; C -1 ; WX 300 ; N ordfeminine ; B 7 408 302 700 ; C -1 ; WX 667 ; N Lcommaaccent ; B 29 -233 665 690 ; C -1 ; WX 611 ; N Thorn ; B 22 0 591 690 ; C -1 ; WX 600 ; N minus ; B 47 228 553 278 ; C -1 ; WX 389 ; N Igrave ; B 33 0 357 921 ; C -1 ; WX 556 ; N ograve ; B 38 -10 518 730 ; C -1 ; WX 556 ; N otilde ; B 38 -10 518 686 ; C -1 ; WX 389 ; N Imacron ; B 33 0 357 852 ; EndCharMetrics StartKernData StartKernPairs 1370 KPX A yacute -75 KPX A y -75 KPX A w -75 KPX A v -75 KPX A uring -75 KPX A uhungarumlaut -75 KPX A udieresis -75 KPX A uacute -75 KPX A u -75 KPX A quoteright -300 KPX A quoteleft -300 KPX A quotedblright -300 KPX A quotedblleft -300 KPX A q -30 KPX A ohungarumlaut -30 KPX A odieresis -30 KPX A ocircumflex -30 KPX A oacute -30 KPX A o -30 KPX A hyphen -75 KPX A guilsinglright -25 KPX A guilsinglleft -100 KPX A guillemotright -25 KPX A guillemotleft -100 KPX A g -30 KPX A eogonek -30 KPX A edieresis -30 KPX A ecaron -30 KPX A eacute -30 KPX A e -30 KPX A dcroat -30 KPX A dcaron -30 KPX A d -30 KPX A ccaron -30 KPX A cacute -30 KPX A c -30 KPX A Yacute -130 KPX A Y -130 KPX A W -110 KPX A V -130 KPX A Uring -55 KPX A Uhungarumlaut -55 KPX A Udieresis -55 KPX A Uacute -55 KPX A U -55 KPX A Tcommaaccent -75 KPX A Tcaron -75 KPX A T -75 KPX A Q -55 KPX A Ohungarumlaut -55 KPX A Odieresis -55 KPX A Ocircumflex -55 KPX A Oacute -55 KPX A O -55 KPX A G -55 KPX A Ccedilla -55 KPX A Ccaron -55 KPX A Cacute -55 KPX A C -55 KPX Aacute y -75 KPX Aacute w -75 KPX Aacute v -75 KPX Aacute u -75 KPX Aacute quoteright -300 KPX Aacute quoteleft -300 KPX Aacute quotedblright -300 KPX Aacute quotedblleft -300 KPX Aacute q -30 KPX Aacute o -30 KPX Aacute hyphen -75 KPX Aacute guilsinglright -25 KPX Aacute guilsinglleft -100 KPX Aacute guillemotright -25 KPX Aacute guillemotleft -100 KPX Aacute g -30 KPX Aacute e -30 KPX Aacute d -30 KPX Aacute c -30 KPX Aacute Y -130 KPX Aacute W -110 KPX Aacute V -130 KPX Aacute U -55 KPX Aacute T -75 KPX Aacute Q -55 KPX Aacute O -55 KPX Aacute G -55 KPX Aacute C -55 KPX Abreve y -75 KPX Abreve w -75 KPX Abreve v -75 KPX Abreve u -75 KPX Abreve quoteright -300 KPX Abreve quoteleft -300 KPX Abreve quotedblright -300 KPX Abreve quotedblleft -300 KPX Abreve q -30 KPX Abreve o -30 KPX Abreve hyphen -75 KPX Abreve guilsinglright -25 KPX Abreve guilsinglleft -100 KPX Abreve guillemotright -25 KPX Abreve guillemotleft -100 KPX Abreve g -30 KPX Abreve e -30 KPX Abreve d -30 KPX Abreve c -30 KPX Abreve Y -130 KPX Abreve W -110 KPX Abreve V -130 KPX Abreve U -55 KPX Abreve T -75 KPX Abreve Q -55 KPX Abreve O -55 KPX Abreve G -55 KPX Abreve C -55 KPX Acircumflex y -75 KPX Acircumflex w -75 KPX Acircumflex v -75 KPX Acircumflex u -75 KPX Acircumflex quoteright -300 KPX Acircumflex quoteleft -300 KPX Acircumflex quotedblright -300 KPX Acircumflex quotedblleft -300 KPX Acircumflex q -30 KPX Acircumflex o -30 KPX Acircumflex hyphen -75 KPX Acircumflex guilsinglright -25 KPX Acircumflex guilsinglleft -100 KPX Acircumflex guillemotright -25 KPX Acircumflex guillemotleft -100 KPX Acircumflex g -30 KPX Acircumflex e -30 KPX Acircumflex d -30 KPX Acircumflex c -30 KPX Acircumflex Y -130 KPX Acircumflex W -110 KPX Acircumflex V -130 KPX Acircumflex U -55 KPX Acircumflex T -75 KPX Acircumflex Q -55 KPX Acircumflex O -55 KPX Acircumflex G -55 KPX Acircumflex C -55 KPX Adieresis y -75 KPX Adieresis w -75 KPX Adieresis v -75 KPX Adieresis u -75 KPX Adieresis quoteright -300 KPX Adieresis quoteleft -300 KPX Adieresis quotedblright -300 KPX Adieresis quotedblleft -300 KPX Adieresis q -30 KPX Adieresis o -30 KPX Adieresis hyphen -75 KPX Adieresis guilsinglright -25 KPX Adieresis guilsinglleft -100 KPX Adieresis guillemotright -25 KPX Adieresis guillemotleft -100 KPX Adieresis g -30 KPX Adieresis e -30 KPX Adieresis d -30 KPX Adieresis c -30 KPX Adieresis Y -130 KPX Adieresis W -110 KPX Adieresis V -130 KPX Adieresis U -55 KPX Adieresis T -75 KPX Adieresis Q -55 KPX Adieresis O -55 KPX Adieresis G -55 KPX Adieresis C -55 KPX Aogonek y -75 KPX Aogonek w -75 KPX Aogonek v -75 KPX Aogonek u -75 KPX Aogonek quoteright -300 KPX Aogonek quoteleft -300 KPX Aogonek quotedblright -300 KPX Aogonek quotedblleft -300 KPX Aogonek q -30 KPX Aogonek o -30 KPX Aogonek hyphen -75 KPX Aogonek guilsinglright -25 KPX Aogonek guilsinglleft -100 KPX Aogonek guillemotright -25 KPX Aogonek guillemotleft -100 KPX Aogonek g -30 KPX Aogonek e -30 KPX Aogonek d -30 KPX Aogonek c -30 KPX Aogonek Y -130 KPX Aogonek W -110 KPX Aogonek V -130 KPX Aogonek U -55 KPX Aogonek T -75 KPX Aogonek Q -55 KPX Aogonek O -55 KPX Aogonek G -55 KPX Aogonek C -55 KPX B period -75 KPX B comma -75 KPX B aogonek -10 KPX B adieresis -10 KPX B acircumflex -10 KPX B abreve -10 KPX B aacute -10 KPX B a -10 KPX B Yacute -50 KPX B Y -50 KPX B W -40 KPX B V -50 KPX B Aogonek -55 KPX B Adieresis -55 KPX B Acircumflex -55 KPX B Abreve -55 KPX B Aacute -55 KPX B A -55 KPX C period -25 KPX C comma -25 KPX C Aogonek -20 KPX C Adieresis -20 KPX C Acircumflex -20 KPX C Abreve -20 KPX C Aacute -20 KPX C A -20 KPX Cacute period -25 KPX Cacute comma -25 KPX Cacute A -20 KPX Ccaron period -25 KPX Ccaron comma -25 KPX Ccaron A -20 KPX Ccedilla period -25 KPX Ccedilla comma -25 KPX Ccedilla A -20 KPX D uring -10 KPX D uhungarumlaut -10 KPX D udieresis -10 KPX D uacute -10 KPX D u -10 KPX D period -75 KPX D comma -75 KPX D aogonek -10 KPX D adieresis -10 KPX D acircumflex -10 KPX D abreve -10 KPX D aacute -10 KPX D a -10 KPX D Yacute -110 KPX D Y -110 KPX D W -45 KPX D V -55 KPX D J -50 KPX D Aogonek -75 KPX D Adieresis -75 KPX D Acircumflex -75 KPX D Abreve -75 KPX D Aacute -75 KPX D A -75 KPX Dcaron u -10 KPX Dcaron period -75 KPX Dcaron comma -75 KPX Dcaron a -10 KPX Dcaron Y -110 KPX Dcaron W -45 KPX Dcaron V -55 KPX Dcaron J -50 KPX Dcaron A -75 KPX Dcroat u -10 KPX Dcroat period -75 KPX Dcroat comma -75 KPX Dcroat a -10 KPX Dcroat Y -110 KPX Dcroat W -45 KPX Dcroat V -55 KPX Dcroat J -50 KPX Dcroat A -75 KPX E Yacute -40 KPX E Y -40 KPX E Tcommaaccent -25 KPX E Tcaron -25 KPX E T -25 KPX Eacute Y -40 KPX Ecaron Y -40 KPX Ecaron T -25 KPX Edieresis Y -40 KPX Eogonek Y -40 KPX Eogonek T -25 KPX F uring -35 KPX F uhungarumlaut -35 KPX F udieresis -35 KPX F uacute -35 KPX F u -35 KPX F racute -35 KPX F r -35 KPX F period -200 KPX F ohungarumlaut -55 KPX F odieresis -55 KPX F ocircumflex -55 KPX F oacute -55 KPX F o -55 KPX F i -35 KPX F eogonek -35 KPX F edieresis -35 KPX F ecaron -35 KPX F eacute -35 KPX F e -35 KPX F comma -200 KPX F aogonek -75 KPX F adieresis -50 KPX F acircumflex -50 KPX F abreve -50 KPX F aacute -75 KPX F a -75 KPX F J -25 KPX F Aogonek -75 KPX F Adieresis -75 KPX F Acircumflex -75 KPX F Abreve -75 KPX F Aacute -75 KPX F A -75 KPX G period -75 KPX G comma -75 KPX G Aogonek -40 KPX G Adieresis -40 KPX G Acircumflex -40 KPX G Abreve -40 KPX G Aacute -40 KPX G A -40 KPX H guilsinglright -25 KPX H guilsinglleft -50 KPX H guillemotright -25 KPX H guillemotleft -50 KPX J uring -50 KPX J uhungarumlaut -50 KPX J udieresis -50 KPX J uacute -50 KPX J u -50 KPX J period -90 KPX J ohungarumlaut -50 KPX J odieresis -50 KPX J ocircumflex -50 KPX J oacute -50 KPX J o -50 KPX J eogonek -50 KPX J edieresis -50 KPX J ecaron -50 KPX J eacute -50 KPX J e -50 KPX J comma -90 KPX J aogonek -75 KPX J adieresis -75 KPX J acircumflex -75 KPX J abreve -75 KPX J aacute -75 KPX J a -75 KPX J Aogonek -75 KPX J Adieresis -75 KPX J Acircumflex -75 KPX J Abreve -75 KPX J Aacute -75 KPX J A -75 KPX K yacute -75 KPX K y -75 KPX K w -75 KPX K uring -50 KPX K uhungarumlaut -50 KPX K udieresis -50 KPX K uacute -50 KPX K u -50 KPX K ohungarumlaut -50 KPX K odieresis -50 KPX K ocircumflex -50 KPX K oacute -50 KPX K o -50 KPX K eogonek -40 KPX K edieresis -40 KPX K ecaron -40 KPX K eacute -40 KPX K e -40 KPX K Ohungarumlaut -50 KPX K Odieresis -50 KPX K Ocircumflex -50 KPX K Oacute -50 KPX K O -50 KPX L yacute -55 KPX L y -55 KPX L quoteright -225 KPX L quoteleft -200 KPX L quotedblright -275 KPX L quotedblleft -250 KPX L aogonek -25 KPX L adieresis -25 KPX L acircumflex -25 KPX L abreve -25 KPX L aacute -25 KPX L a -25 KPX L Y -130 KPX L W -130 KPX L V -130 KPX L Tcommaaccent -90 KPX L Tcaron -90 KPX L T -90 KPX L Scommaaccent -25 KPX L Scaron -25 KPX L Sacute -25 KPX L S -25 KPX L Ohungarumlaut -50 KPX L Odieresis -50 KPX L Ocircumflex -50 KPX L Oacute -50 KPX L O -50 KPX L Aogonek -50 KPX L Adieresis -50 KPX L Acircumflex -50 KPX L Abreve -50 KPX L Aacute -50 KPX L A -50 KPX Lacute y -55 KPX Lacute quoteright -225 KPX Lacute quoteleft -200 KPX Lacute quotedblright -275 KPX Lacute quotedblleft -250 KPX Lacute a -25 KPX Lacute Y -130 KPX Lacute W -130 KPX Lacute V -130 KPX Lacute T -90 KPX Lacute S -25 KPX Lacute O -50 KPX Lacute A -50 KPX Lcaron y -55 KPX Lcaron quoteright -125 KPX Lcaron quoteleft -125 KPX Lcaron quotedblright -100 KPX Lcaron quotedblleft -100 KPX Lcaron a -25 KPX Lcaron Y -130 KPX Lcaron W -130 KPX Lcaron V -130 KPX Lcaron T -90 KPX Lcaron S -25 KPX Lcaron O -50 KPX Lcaron A -50 KPX Lslash y -55 KPX Lslash quoteright -225 KPX Lslash quoteleft -200 KPX Lslash quotedblright -200 KPX Lslash quotedblleft -175 KPX Lslash a -25 KPX Lslash Y -130 KPX Lslash W -130 KPX Lslash V -130 KPX Lslash T -90 KPX Lslash S -25 KPX Lslash O -50 KPX Lslash A -50 KPX N period -75 KPX N comma -75 KPX Nacute period -75 KPX Nacute comma -75 KPX Ncaron period -75 KPX Ncaron comma -75 KPX O period -75 KPX O comma -75 KPX O aogonek -10 KPX O adieresis -10 KPX O acircumflex -10 KPX O abreve -10 KPX O aacute -10 KPX O a -10 KPX O Y -75 KPX O X -20 KPX O W -25 KPX O V -35 KPX O Tcommaaccent -20 KPX O Tcaron -20 KPX O T -20 KPX O Aogonek -55 KPX O Adieresis -55 KPX O Acircumflex -55 KPX O Abreve -55 KPX O Aacute -55 KPX O A -55 KPX Oacute period -75 KPX Oacute comma -75 KPX Oacute a -10 KPX Oacute Y -75 KPX Oacute X -20 KPX Oacute W -25 KPX Oacute V -35 KPX Oacute T -20 KPX Oacute A -55 KPX Ocircumflex period -75 KPX Ocircumflex comma -75 KPX Ocircumflex a -10 KPX Ocircumflex Y -75 KPX Ocircumflex X -20 KPX Ocircumflex W -25 KPX Ocircumflex V -35 KPX Ocircumflex T -20 KPX Ocircumflex A -55 KPX Odieresis period -75 KPX Odieresis comma -75 KPX Odieresis a -10 KPX Odieresis Y -75 KPX Odieresis X -20 KPX Odieresis W -25 KPX Odieresis V -35 KPX Odieresis T -20 KPX Odieresis A -55 KPX Ohungarumlaut period -75 KPX Ohungarumlaut comma -75 KPX Ohungarumlaut a -10 KPX Ohungarumlaut Y -75 KPX Ohungarumlaut X -20 KPX Ohungarumlaut W -25 KPX Ohungarumlaut V -35 KPX Ohungarumlaut T -20 KPX Ohungarumlaut A -55 KPX P period -200 KPX P ohungarumlaut -45 KPX P odieresis -45 KPX P ocircumflex -45 KPX P oacute -45 KPX P o -45 KPX P eogonek -45 KPX P edieresis -45 KPX P ecaron -45 KPX P eacute -45 KPX P e -45 KPX P comma -200 KPX P aogonek -45 KPX P adieresis -45 KPX P acircumflex -45 KPX P abreve -45 KPX P aacute -45 KPX P a -45 KPX P Aogonek -105 KPX P Adieresis -105 KPX P Acircumflex -105 KPX P Abreve -105 KPX P Aacute -105 KPX P A -105 KPX Q period -35 KPX Q comma -35 KPX R y -75 KPX R uring -25 KPX R uhungarumlaut -75 KPX R uhungarumlaut -25 KPX R udieresis -25 KPX R uacute -25 KPX R u -25 KPX R quoteright -100 KPX R quoteleft -100 KPX R quotedblright -100 KPX R quotedblleft -100 KPX R ohungarumlaut -25 KPX R odieresis -25 KPX R ocircumflex -25 KPX R oacute -25 KPX R o -25 KPX R eogonek -25 KPX R edieresis -25 KPX R ecaron -25 KPX R eacute -25 KPX R e -25 KPX R aogonek -10 KPX R adieresis -10 KPX R acircumflex -10 KPX R abreve -10 KPX R aacute -10 KPX R a -10 KPX R Yacute -75 KPX R Y -75 KPX R W -75 KPX R V -75 KPX R Uring -45 KPX R Uhungarumlaut -45 KPX R Udieresis -45 KPX R Uacute -45 KPX R U -45 KPX R Tcommaaccent -55 KPX R Tcaron -55 KPX R T -55 KPX R Scommaaccent -25 KPX R Scaron -25 KPX R Sacute -25 KPX R S -25 KPX R Ohungarumlaut -40 KPX R Odieresis -40 KPX R Ocircumflex -40 KPX R Oacute -40 KPX R O -40 KPX R G -40 KPX R Ccedilla -40 KPX R Ccaron -40 KPX R Cacute -40 KPX R C -40 KPX Racute y -75 KPX Racute u -25 KPX Racute quoteright -100 KPX Racute quoteleft -100 KPX Racute quotedblright -100 KPX Racute quotedblleft -100 KPX Racute o -25 KPX Racute e -25 KPX Racute a -10 KPX Racute Y -75 KPX Racute W -75 KPX Racute V -75 KPX Racute U -45 KPX Racute T -55 KPX Racute S -25 KPX Racute O -40 KPX Racute G -40 KPX Racute C -40 KPX Rcaron y -75 KPX Rcaron u -25 KPX Rcaron quoteright -100 KPX Rcaron quoteleft -100 KPX Rcaron quotedblright -100 KPX Rcaron quotedblleft -100 KPX Rcaron o -25 KPX Rcaron e -25 KPX Rcaron a -10 KPX Rcaron Y -75 KPX Rcaron W -75 KPX Rcaron V -75 KPX Rcaron U -45 KPX Rcaron T -55 KPX Rcaron S -25 KPX Rcaron O -40 KPX Rcaron G -40 KPX Rcaron C -40 KPX S yacute -50 KPX S y -50 KPX S w -50 KPX S v -50 KPX S period -40 KPX S comma -40 KPX S Yacute -25 KPX S Y -25 KPX S V -25 KPX S Aogonek -25 KPX S Adieresis -25 KPX S Acircumflex -25 KPX S Abreve -25 KPX S Aacute -25 KPX S A -25 KPX Sacute y -50 KPX Sacute w -50 KPX Sacute v -50 KPX Sacute period -40 KPX Sacute comma -40 KPX Sacute Y -25 KPX Sacute V -25 KPX Sacute A -25 KPX Scaron y -50 KPX Scaron w -50 KPX Scaron v -50 KPX Scaron period -40 KPX Scaron comma -40 KPX Scaron Y -25 KPX Scaron V -25 KPX Scaron A -25 KPX Scommaaccent y -50 KPX Scommaaccent w -50 KPX Scommaaccent v -50 KPX Scommaaccent period -40 KPX Scommaaccent comma -40 KPX Scommaaccent Y -25 KPX Scommaaccent V -25 KPX Scommaaccent A -25 KPX T yacute -135 KPX T y -160 KPX T w -160 KPX T uring -100 KPX T uhungarumlaut -50 KPX T udieresis -50 KPX T uacute -125 KPX T u -160 KPX T semicolon -115 KPX T racute -75 KPX T r -110 KPX T period -115 KPX T ohungarumlaut -75 KPX T odieresis -75 KPX T ocircumflex -75 KPX T oacute -145 KPX T o -145 KPX T icircumflex 30 KPX T i -35 KPX T hyphen -90 KPX T h -40 KPX T guilsinglright -150 KPX T guilsinglleft -200 KPX T guillemotright -150 KPX T guillemotleft -200 KPX T eogonek -145 KPX T edieresis -50 KPX T ecaron -50 KPX T eacute -120 KPX T e -145 KPX T comma -115 KPX T colon -115 KPX T aogonek -150 KPX T adieresis -45 KPX T acircumflex -45 KPX T abreve -45 KPX T aacute -120 KPX T a -150 KPX T Yacute -25 KPX T Y -25 KPX T W -25 KPX T V -25 KPX T Ohungarumlaut -20 KPX T Odieresis -20 KPX T Ocircumflex -20 KPX T Oacute -20 KPX T O -20 KPX T J -25 KPX T Aogonek -75 KPX T Adieresis -75 KPX T Acircumflex -75 KPX T Abreve -75 KPX T Aacute -75 KPX T A -75 KPX Tcaron y -160 KPX Tcaron w -160 KPX Tcaron u -160 KPX Tcaron semicolon -115 KPX Tcaron r -110 KPX Tcaron period -115 KPX Tcaron o -145 KPX Tcaron i -35 KPX Tcaron hyphen -90 KPX Tcaron h -40 KPX Tcaron guilsinglright -150 KPX Tcaron guilsinglleft -200 KPX Tcaron guillemotright -150 KPX Tcaron guillemotleft -200 KPX Tcaron e -145 KPX Tcaron comma -115 KPX Tcaron colon -115 KPX Tcaron a -150 KPX Tcaron Y -25 KPX Tcaron W -25 KPX Tcaron V -25 KPX Tcaron O -20 KPX Tcaron J -25 KPX Tcaron A -75 KPX Tcommaaccent y -160 KPX Tcommaaccent w -160 KPX Tcommaaccent u -160 KPX Tcommaaccent semicolon -115 KPX Tcommaaccent r -110 KPX Tcommaaccent period -115 KPX Tcommaaccent o -145 KPX Tcommaaccent i -35 KPX Tcommaaccent hyphen -90 KPX Tcommaaccent h -40 KPX Tcommaaccent guilsinglright -150 KPX Tcommaaccent guilsinglleft -200 KPX Tcommaaccent guillemotright -150 KPX Tcommaaccent guillemotleft -200 KPX Tcommaaccent e -145 KPX Tcommaaccent comma -115 KPX Tcommaaccent colon -115 KPX Tcommaaccent a -150 KPX Tcommaaccent Y -25 KPX Tcommaaccent W -25 KPX Tcommaaccent V -25 KPX Tcommaaccent O -20 KPX Tcommaaccent J -25 KPX Tcommaaccent A -75 KPX U period -90 KPX U comma -90 KPX U Aogonek -75 KPX U Adieresis -75 KPX U Acircumflex -75 KPX U Abreve -75 KPX U Aacute -75 KPX U A -75 KPX Uacute A -75 KPX Udieresis A -75 KPX Uhungarumlaut A -75 KPX Uring A -75 KPX V uring -100 KPX V uhungarumlaut -100 KPX V udieresis -75 KPX V uacute -100 KPX V u -100 KPX V semicolon -120 KPX V period -230 KPX V ohungarumlaut -130 KPX V odieresis -90 KPX V ocircumflex -130 KPX V oacute -130 KPX V o -130 KPX V iacute -35 KPX V i -35 KPX V hyphen -90 KPX V guilsinglright -125 KPX V guilsinglleft -175 KPX V guillemotright -125 KPX V guillemotleft -175 KPX V eogonek -130 KPX V edieresis -75 KPX V ecaron -75 KPX V eacute -130 KPX V e -130 KPX V comma -230 KPX V colon -120 KPX V aogonek -135 KPX V adieresis -80 KPX V acircumflex -110 KPX V abreve -80 KPX V aacute -135 KPX V a -135 KPX V Yacute -25 KPX V Y -25 KPX V Ohungarumlaut -35 KPX V Odieresis -35 KPX V Ocircumflex -35 KPX V Oacute -35 KPX V O -35 KPX V G -35 KPX V Ccedilla -35 KPX V Ccaron -35 KPX V Cacute -35 KPX V C -35 KPX V Aogonek -110 KPX V Adieresis -110 KPX V Acircumflex -110 KPX V Abreve -110 KPX V Aacute -110 KPX V A -110 KPX W yacute -60 KPX W y -60 KPX W uring -70 KPX W uhungarumlaut -70 KPX W udieresis -70 KPX W uacute -70 KPX W u -70 KPX W semicolon -100 KPX W racute -70 KPX W r -70 KPX W period -200 KPX W ohungarumlaut -100 KPX W odieresis -100 KPX W ocircumflex -100 KPX W oacute -100 KPX W o -100 KPX W iacute -35 KPX W i -35 KPX W hyphen -75 KPX W h -20 KPX W guilsinglright -100 KPX W guilsinglleft -125 KPX W guillemotright -100 KPX W guillemotleft -125 KPX W eogonek -100 KPX W edieresis -100 KPX W ecaron -100 KPX W eacute -100 KPX W e -100 KPX W comma -200 KPX W colon -100 KPX W aogonek -100 KPX W adieresis -100 KPX W acircumflex -100 KPX W abreve -100 KPX W aacute -100 KPX W a -100 KPX W Yacute -25 KPX W Y -25 KPX W Ohungarumlaut -25 KPX W Odieresis -25 KPX W Ocircumflex -25 KPX W Oacute -25 KPX W O -25 KPX W Aogonek -90 KPX W Adieresis -90 KPX W Acircumflex -90 KPX W Abreve -90 KPX W Aacute -90 KPX W A -90 KPX X yacute -100 KPX X y -100 KPX X Ohungarumlaut -20 KPX X Odieresis -20 KPX X Ocircumflex -20 KPX X Oacute -20 KPX X O -20 KPX X Ccedilla -20 KPX X Ccaron -20 KPX X Cacute -20 KPX X C -20 KPX Y uring -125 KPX Y uhungarumlaut -125 KPX Y udieresis -100 KPX Y uacute -175 KPX Y u -175 KPX Y semicolon -160 KPX Y period -160 KPX Y ohungarumlaut -175 KPX Y odieresis -100 KPX Y ocircumflex -125 KPX Y oacute -200 KPX Y o -200 KPX Y iacute -55 KPX Y i -55 KPX Y hyphen -110 KPX Y guilsinglright -175 KPX Y guilsinglleft -225 KPX Y guillemotright -175 KPX Y guillemotleft -225 KPX Y eogonek -200 KPX Y edieresis -100 KPX Y ecaron -100 KPX Y eacute -200 KPX Y e -200 KPX Y comma -160 KPX Y colon -160 KPX Y aogonek -200 KPX Y adieresis -75 KPX Y acircumflex -125 KPX Y abreve -75 KPX Y aacute -200 KPX Y a -200 KPX Y Scommaaccent -40 KPX Y Scaron -40 KPX Y Sacute -40 KPX Y S -40 KPX Y Ohungarumlaut -75 KPX Y Odieresis -75 KPX Y Ocircumflex -75 KPX Y Oacute -75 KPX Y O -75 KPX Y Ccedilla -75 KPX Y Ccaron -75 KPX Y Cacute -75 KPX Y C -75 KPX Y Aogonek -110 KPX Y Adieresis -110 KPX Y Acircumflex -110 KPX Y Abreve -110 KPX Y Aacute -110 KPX Y A -110 KPX Yacute u -175 KPX Yacute semicolon -160 KPX Yacute period -160 KPX Yacute o -200 KPX Yacute i -55 KPX Yacute hyphen -110 KPX Yacute guilsinglright -175 KPX Yacute guilsinglleft -225 KPX Yacute guillemotright -175 KPX Yacute guillemotleft -225 KPX Yacute e -200 KPX Yacute comma -160 KPX Yacute colon -160 KPX Yacute a -200 KPX Yacute S -40 KPX Yacute O -75 KPX Yacute C -75 KPX Yacute A -110 KPX a yacute -10 KPX a y -10 KPX a w -10 KPX a v -10 KPX aacute y -10 KPX aacute w -10 KPX aacute v -10 KPX abreve y -10 KPX abreve w -10 KPX abreve v -10 KPX acircumflex y -10 KPX acircumflex w -10 KPX acircumflex v -10 KPX adieresis y -10 KPX adieresis w -10 KPX adieresis v -10 KPX aogonek y -10 KPX aogonek w -10 KPX aogonek v -10 KPX b v -10 KPX b period -35 KPX b comma -35 KPX c yacute -10 KPX c y -10 KPX c period -20 KPX c comma -20 KPX cacute y -10 KPX cacute period -20 KPX cacute comma -20 KPX ccaron y -10 KPX ccaron period -20 KPX ccaron comma -20 KPX ccedilla y -10 KPX ccedilla period -20 KPX ccedilla comma -20 KPX colon space -55 KPX comma space -55 KPX comma quoteright -200 KPX comma quoteleft -175 KPX comma quotedblright -200 KPX comma quotedblleft -175 KPX comma Ohungarumlaut -50 KPX comma Odieresis -50 KPX comma Ocircumflex -50 KPX comma Oacute -50 KPX comma O -50 KPX e quoteright -50 KPX e quotedblright -50 KPX e quotedblleft -50 KPX e period -35 KPX e comma -35 KPX eacute quoteright -50 KPX eacute quoteleft -50 KPX eacute quotedblright -50 KPX eacute quotedblleft -50 KPX eacute period -35 KPX eacute comma -35 KPX ecaron quoteright -50 KPX ecaron quoteleft -50 KPX ecaron quotedblright -50 KPX ecaron quotedblleft -50 KPX ecaron period -35 KPX ecaron comma -35 KPX edieresis quoteright -50 KPX edieresis quoteleft -50 KPX edieresis quotedblright -50 KPX edieresis quotedblleft -50 KPX edieresis period -35 KPX edieresis comma -35 KPX eogonek quoteright -50 KPX eogonek quoteleft -50 KPX eogonek quotedblright -50 KPX eogonek quotedblleft -50 KPX eogonek period -35 KPX eogonek comma -35 KPX f quoteright 50 KPX f quotedblright 50 KPX f period -50 KPX f f -15 KPX f comma -50 KPX g period -20 KPX g comma -20 KPX guillemotleft Yacute -175 KPX guillemotleft Y -175 KPX guillemotleft W -100 KPX guillemotleft V -125 KPX guillemotleft Tcommaaccent -150 KPX guillemotleft Tcaron -150 KPX guillemotleft T -150 KPX guillemotleft H -25 KPX guillemotleft Aogonek -25 KPX guillemotleft Adieresis -25 KPX guillemotleft Acircumflex -25 KPX guillemotleft Abreve -25 KPX guillemotleft Aacute -25 KPX guillemotleft A -25 KPX guillemotright period -75 KPX guillemotright comma -75 KPX guillemotright Yacute -225 KPX guillemotright Y -225 KPX guillemotright W -125 KPX guillemotright V -175 KPX guillemotright Tcommaaccent -200 KPX guillemotright Tcaron -200 KPX guillemotright T -200 KPX guillemotright H -50 KPX guillemotright Aogonek -100 KPX guillemotright Adieresis -100 KPX guillemotright Acircumflex -100 KPX guillemotright Abreve -100 KPX guillemotright Aacute -100 KPX guillemotright A -100 KPX guilsinglleft Yacute -175 KPX guilsinglleft Y -175 KPX guilsinglleft W -100 KPX guilsinglleft V -125 KPX guilsinglleft Tcommaaccent -150 KPX guilsinglleft Tcaron -150 KPX guilsinglleft T -150 KPX guilsinglleft H -25 KPX guilsinglleft Aogonek -25 KPX guilsinglleft Adieresis -25 KPX guilsinglleft Acircumflex -25 KPX guilsinglleft Abreve -25 KPX guilsinglleft Aacute -25 KPX guilsinglleft A -25 KPX guilsinglright period -75 KPX guilsinglright comma -75 KPX guilsinglright Yacute -225 KPX guilsinglright Y -225 KPX guilsinglright W -125 KPX guilsinglright V -175 KPX guilsinglright Tcommaaccent -200 KPX guilsinglright Tcaron -200 KPX guilsinglright T -200 KPX guilsinglright H -50 KPX guilsinglright Aogonek -100 KPX guilsinglright Adieresis -100 KPX guilsinglright Acircumflex -100 KPX guilsinglright Abreve -100 KPX guilsinglright Aacute -100 KPX guilsinglright A -100 KPX h quoteright -75 KPX h quoteleft -75 KPX h quotedblright -75 KPX h quotedblleft -75 KPX i j 20 KPX k ohungarumlaut -15 KPX k odieresis -15 KPX k ocircumflex -15 KPX k oacute -15 KPX k o -15 KPX k eogonek -15 KPX k edieresis -15 KPX k ecaron -15 KPX k eacute -15 KPX k e -15 KPX n v -10 KPX n quoteright -75 KPX n quoteleft -75 KPX n quotedblright -75 KPX n quotedblleft -75 KPX nacute v -10 KPX nacute quoteright -75 KPX nacute quoteleft -75 KPX nacute quotedblright -75 KPX nacute quotedblleft -75 KPX ncaron v -10 KPX ncaron quoteright -75 KPX ncaron quoteleft -75 KPX ncaron quotedblright -75 KPX ncaron quotedblleft -75 KPX o quoteright -50 KPX o quoteleft -50 KPX o quotedblright -50 KPX o quotedblleft -50 KPX o period -40 KPX o comma -40 KPX oacute quoteright -50 KPX oacute quoteleft -50 KPX oacute quotedblright -50 KPX oacute quotedblleft -50 KPX oacute period -40 KPX oacute comma -40 KPX ocircumflex quoteright -50 KPX ocircumflex quoteleft -50 KPX ocircumflex quotedblright -50 KPX ocircumflex quotedblleft -50 KPX ocircumflex period -40 KPX ocircumflex comma -40 KPX odieresis quoteright -50 KPX odieresis quoteleft -50 KPX odieresis quotedblright -50 KPX odieresis quotedblleft -50 KPX odieresis period -40 KPX odieresis comma -40 KPX ohungarumlaut period -40 KPX ohungarumlaut comma -40 KPX one six -30 KPX one seven -50 KPX one period -75 KPX one nine -30 KPX one hyphen -125 KPX one four -30 KPX one five -30 KPX one eight -30 KPX p period -40 KPX p comma -40 KPX period space -55 KPX period quoteright -225 KPX period quoteleft -200 KPX period quotedblright -200 KPX period quotedblleft -175 KPX quotedblbase Yacute -230 KPX quotedblbase Y -230 KPX quotedblbase W -225 KPX quotedblbase V -250 KPX quotedblbase Tcommaaccent -150 KPX quotedblbase Tcaron -150 KPX quotedblbase T -150 KPX quotedblbase Ohungarumlaut -50 KPX quotedblbase Odieresis -50 KPX quotedblbase Ocircumflex -50 KPX quotedblbase Oacute -50 KPX quotedblbase O -50 KPX quotedblleft space -75 KPX quotedblleft period -200 KPX quotedblleft comma -200 KPX quotedblleft Ohungarumlaut -25 KPX quotedblleft Odieresis -25 KPX quotedblleft Ocircumflex -25 KPX quotedblleft Oacute -25 KPX quotedblleft O -25 KPX quotedblleft Aogonek -275 KPX quotedblleft Adieresis -275 KPX quotedblleft Acircumflex -275 KPX quotedblleft Abreve -275 KPX quotedblleft Aacute -275 KPX quotedblleft A -275 KPX quotedblright space -75 KPX quotedblright period -200 KPX quotedblright comma -200 KPX quotedblright Ohungarumlaut -25 KPX quotedblright Odieresis -25 KPX quotedblright Ocircumflex -25 KPX quotedblright Oacute -25 KPX quotedblright O -25 KPX quotedblright Aogonek -275 KPX quotedblright Adieresis -275 KPX quotedblright Acircumflex -275 KPX quotedblright Abreve -275 KPX quotedblright Aacute -275 KPX quotedblright A -275 KPX quoteleft quoteleft -50 KPX quoteleft period -200 KPX quoteleft comma -175 KPX quoteleft Ohungarumlaut -25 KPX quoteleft Odieresis -25 KPX quoteleft Ocircumflex -25 KPX quoteleft Oacute -25 KPX quoteleft O -25 KPX quoteleft Aogonek -250 KPX quoteleft Adieresis -250 KPX quoteleft Acircumflex -250 KPX quoteleft Abreve -250 KPX quoteleft Aacute -250 KPX quoteleft A -250 KPX quoteright v -20 KPX quoteright tcommaaccent -20 KPX quoteright tcaron -20 KPX quoteright t -20 KPX quoteright scommaaccent -20 KPX quoteright sacute -20 KPX quoteright s -20 KPX quoteright racute -20 KPX quoteright r -20 KPX quoteright quoteright -50 KPX quoteright period -200 KPX quoteright lslash -20 KPX quoteright lcaron -20 KPX quoteright lacute -20 KPX quoteright l -20 KPX quoteright dcroat -55 KPX quoteright dcaron -55 KPX quoteright d -55 KPX quoteright comma -175 KPX quoteright Ohungarumlaut -50 KPX quoteright Odieresis -50 KPX quoteright Ocircumflex -50 KPX quoteright Oacute -50 KPX quoteright O -50 KPX quoteright Aogonek -275 KPX quoteright Adieresis -275 KPX quoteright Acircumflex -275 KPX quoteright Abreve -275 KPX quoteright Aacute -275 KPX quoteright A -275 KPX r period -100 KPX r ohungarumlaut -15 KPX r odieresis -15 KPX r ocircumflex -15 KPX r oacute -15 KPX r o -15 KPX r hyphen -55 KPX r g -15 KPX r eogonek -15 KPX r edieresis -15 KPX r ecaron -15 KPX r eacute -15 KPX r e -15 KPX r dcroat -15 KPX r dcaron -15 KPX r d -15 KPX r comma -100 KPX r ccedilla -15 KPX r ccaron -15 KPX r cacute -15 KPX r c -15 KPX r aogonek -15 KPX r adieresis -15 KPX r acircumflex -15 KPX r abreve -15 KPX r aacute -15 KPX r a -15 KPX racute period -100 KPX racute o -15 KPX racute hyphen -55 KPX racute g -15 KPX racute e -15 KPX racute d -15 KPX racute comma -100 KPX racute c -15 KPX racute a -15 KPX rcaron period -100 KPX rcaron o -15 KPX rcaron hyphen -55 KPX rcaron g -15 KPX rcaron e -15 KPX rcaron d -15 KPX rcaron comma -100 KPX rcaron c -15 KPX rcaron a -15 KPX s period -20 KPX s comma -20 KPX sacute period -20 KPX sacute comma -20 KPX scaron period -20 KPX scaron comma -20 KPX scommaaccent period -20 KPX scommaaccent comma -20 KPX semicolon space -55 KPX seven period -200 KPX seven hyphen -100 KPX seven four -40 KPX seven comma -200 KPX space quoteright -55 KPX space quoteleft -55 KPX space quotedblright -55 KPX space quotedblleft -75 KPX space quotedblbase -55 KPX space Y -55 KPX space W -55 KPX space V -55 KPX space T -55 KPX space A -55 KPX t t -15 KPX u quoteright -50 KPX u quoteleft -50 KPX u quotedblright -50 KPX u quotedblleft -50 KPX uacute quoteright -50 KPX uacute quoteleft -50 KPX uacute quotedblright -50 KPX uacute quotedblleft -50 KPX udieresis quoteright -50 KPX udieresis quoteleft -50 KPX udieresis quotedblright -50 KPX udieresis quotedblleft -50 KPX uring quoteright -50 KPX uring quoteleft -50 KPX uring quotedblright -50 KPX uring quotedblleft -50 KPX v period -140 KPX v hyphen -20 KPX v comma -140 KPX v aogonek -15 KPX v adieresis -15 KPX v acircumflex -15 KPX v abreve -15 KPX v aacute -15 KPX v a -15 KPX w period -125 KPX w hyphen -20 KPX w comma -125 KPX x hyphen -75 KPX y period -140 KPX y hyphen -15 KPX y comma -140 KPX yacute period -140 KPX yacute hyphen -15 KPX yacute comma -140 KPX zero zero 50 KPX zero one 50 EndKernPairs EndKernData EndFontMetrics - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 5-Sep-1999 20:07:44-GMT,1952;000000000000 Return-Path: <vvv@vvv.vsu.ru> Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08505 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 14:07:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay2.vsu.ru (postfix@mail.vsu.ru [62.76.169.17]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA27686 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 16:07:36 -0400 Received: by relay2.vsu.ru (Postfix, from userid 5) id 5EF1318D3; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 00:07:28 +0400 (MSD) Received: (from vvv@localhost) by vvv.vsu.ru (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA02466; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 00:02:18 +0400 To: "Berthold K.P. Horn" <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Cc: Ulrik Vieth <ulrik.vieth@bluewin.de>, karl@cs.umb.edu, tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: Re: question about adobe Cyrillic fonts. References: <Ulrik Vieth's message of "Sun, 5 Sep 1999 13:06:06 +0200"> <m3d7vyv4nw.fsf@vvv.vsu.ru> <199909051106.NAA00323@zarquon.dynamic-ip> <4.2.0.58.19990905134642.00a52ec8@mail.ai.mit.edu> From: Vladimir Volovich <vvv@vvv.vsu.ru> Date: 06 Sep 1999 00:02:18 +0400 In-Reply-To: "Berthold K.P. Horn"'s message of "Sun, 05 Sep 1999 13:48:02 -0400" Message-ID: <m3r9kdjfed.fsf@vvv.vsu.ru> Lines: 14 User-Agent: Gnus/5.070095 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.95) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii "BKPH" == Berthold K P Horn writes: BKPH> I do not know of a source for non-Adobe AFMs (other than buying BKPH> the fonts). But wouldn't you want to reencode such fonts in BKPH> any case to your favourite Cyrillic encoding? And hence the BKPH> encoding they come with is irrelevant? more or less, except how to name the AFM files. :) btw, some monotype AFMs are available at CTAN (e.g. in the ot2cyr package). So, distribution of AFMs is not restricted? If so, could anyone who owns those monotype and linotype cyrillic fonts put AFMs somewhere on ftp? :) (so that we could create virtual fonts and put them on CTAN) Best regards, -- Vladimir. 5-Sep-1999 21:05:52-GMT,1974;000000000000 Return-Path: <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA09794 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 15:05:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay20.smtp.psi.net (relay20.smtp.psi.net [38.8.20.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA27730 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 17:05:47 -0400 Received: from [209.61.75.18] (helo=MAURITIUS) by relay20.smtp.psi.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) id 11NgQ4-00040H-00; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 13:49:37 -0400 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990905134642.00a52ec8@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 13:48:02 -0400 To: Vladimir Volovich <vvv@vvv.vsu.ru>, Ulrik Vieth <ulrik.vieth@bluewin.de> From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Subject: Re: question about adobe Cyrillic fonts. Cc: karl@cs.umb.edu, tex-fonts@tug.org In-Reply-To: <m37lm5l5jy.fsf@vvv.vsu.ru> References: <Ulrik Vieth's message of "Sun, 5 Sep 1999 13:06:06 +0200"> <m3d7vyv4nw.fsf@vvv.vsu.ru> <199909051106.NAA00323@zarquon.dynamic-ip> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:52 PM 1999-09-05 +0400, Vladimir Volovich wrote: > UV> BTW: If you're doing an update, don't forget about similar cases > UV> in monotype.map and linotype{,-cd}.map. > >surely. but are the AFM files for monotype and linotype cyrillic fonts >available somewhere for download (adobe's ones are available at >ftp.adobe.com)? i do not have monotype and linotype cyrillic type1 >fonts, but would like to verify encodings via AFM files, and also >create virtual fonts for TeX... I do not know of a source for non-Adobe AFMs (other than buying the fonts). But wouldn't you want to reencode such fonts in any case to your favourite Cyrillic encoding? And hence the encoding they come with is irrelevant? Regards, Berthold. Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu 5-Sep-1999 21:10:42-GMT,3839;000000000000 Return-Path: <vvv@vvv.vsu.ru> Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA09937 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 15:10:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay2.vsu.ru (postfix@mail.vsu.ru [62.76.169.17]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA27736 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 17:10:28 -0400 Received: by relay2.vsu.ru (Postfix, from userid 5) id F29641884; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 01:10:30 +0400 (MSD) Received: (from vvv@localhost) by vvv.vsu.ru (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA02676; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 01:05:08 +0400 To: Ulrik Vieth <ulrik.vieth@bluewin.de> Cc: karl@cs.umb.edu, tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: Re: question about adobe Cyrillic fonts. References: <m3d7vyv4nw.fsf@vvv.vsu.ru> <199909051106.NAA00323@zarquon.dynamic-ip> <m37lm5l5jy.fsf@vvv.vsu.ru> <199909052004.WAA00932@zarquon.dynamic-ip> From: Vladimir Volovich <vvv@vvv.vsu.ru> Date: 06 Sep 1999 01:05:08 +0400 In-Reply-To: Ulrik Vieth's message of "Sun, 5 Sep 1999 22:04:08 +0200" Message-ID: <m3lnaljchn.fsf@vvv.vsu.ru> Lines: 57 User-Agent: Gnus/5.070095 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.95) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii "UV" == Ulrik Vieth writes: UV> I do happen to have a Linotype Font Explorer CD (with complemte UV> AFMs). It is interesting to note that the CD includes two types UV> or Cyrillic ("Cyr" and "CyrA") as well as two types of Greek UV> ("Greek" and "GreekP"). UV> Enclosed are examples of both types for: UV> l_____ TimesTenCyrA-Upright LL 7035 ttzu____ UV> l_____ TimesTenCyr-Upright LL 7003 ttyu____ UV> While the first one ("CyrA") may be useable directly as UV> distributed, the second one ("Cyr") contains some unencoded UV> glyphs, so best use of this font can only be made through UV> reencoding. some notes. AFM file for TimesTenCyr-Upright exactly matches the co-named font distributed by Adobe (there is difference in version number, and kerning pairs are ordered differently, but the set of kerns is exactly the same). The encoding of TimesTenCyr-Upright is thus `6w', a cp1251 MS cyrillic codepage (and could be re-encoded into other encodings using unencoded glyphs). AFM file for TimesTenCyrA-Upright (which does not contain unencoded glyphs) has an encoding which is an extension of iso-8859-5, where all latin glyphs are replaced with cyrillic ones, and even unused area 128-159 is also filled with cyrillic glyphs. So, this encoding is not quite usable `as is', because of the lack of latin glyphs (which are also often used in cyrillic texts); so this font needs to be combined into some standard encoding in a virtual font with the corresponding latin font. Also, the AFM file for TimesTenCyrA-Upright does not contain any kerns, which looks strange. UV> While we are at the topic of unresolved encodings, I've also UV> included examples of the following: UV> l_____ TimesTenGreek-Upright LL 7021 ttg_____ UV> l_____ TimesTenGreekP-Upright LL 7001 ttp_____ while i'm not competent in greek encodings, it seems that TimesTenGreek-Upright matches the windows greek encoding (cp1253), while TimesTenGreekP-Upright lacks ASCII latin glyphs, so it has non-standard encoding (like TimesTenCyrA-Upright). UV> l_____ TimesTenCE-Roman LL 7036 ttxr____ UV> If anyone could identify these encodings, it would be nice to UV> know. Obviously, the variant code "k" is not enough for both UV> Greek variants. As for "CE", all I can tell is that this seems UV> to be a combination of both Latin~1 and Latin~2 amounting to more UV> than 256 glyphs altogether. the encoding in TimesTenCE-Roman is exactly microsoft cp1250 (except that Euro is missing at slot 128). Best regards, -- Vladimir. 5-Sep-1999 23:16:35-GMT,1947;000000000000 Return-Path: <yannnis@fluxus-virus.com> Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA12522 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 17:16:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.free.fr (root@smtp2.free.fr [212.27.32.6]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA27853 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 19:16:29 -0400 Received: from 212.27.62.205 (lille-62-205.dial.proxad.net [212.27.62.205]) by smtp2.free.fr (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id BAA05563; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 01:16:16 +0200 Message-Id: <199909052316.BAA05563@smtp2.free.fr> Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 01:18:30 +0200 From: Yannis Haralambous <yannnis@fluxus-virus.com> Subject: Re: question about adobe Cyrillic fonts. To: Ulrik Vieth <ulrik.vieth@bluewin.de> cc: vvv@vvv.vsu.ru, ulrik.vieth@bluewin.de, karl@cs.umb.edu, tex-fonts@tug.org X-Priority: 3 In-Reply-To: <199909052004.WAA00932@zarquon.dynamic-ip> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; Charset=US-ASCII X-Mailer: Mailsmith 1.1.4 (Bluto) On 5/09/99 at 22:04, ulrik.vieth@bluewin.de (Ulrik Vieth) wrote: > l_____ TimesTenGreek-Upright LL 7021 ttg_____ > l_____ TimesTenGreekP-Upright LL 7001 ttp_____ > > l_____ TimesTenCE-Roman LL 7036 ttxr____ > > If anyone could identify these encodings, it would be nice to know. "GreekP" stands for polytonic Greek. "Greek" stands for monotonic Greek, but Linotype has done a terrible mistake: instead of using an acute accent glyph for the unique accent, they took a triangle. These fonts should be avoided. For typesetting monotonic Greek, it is better to take a polytonic font and use its acute accent. CE stands for Central Europe, these fonts have more or less the glyphs of ISO Latin-2: theyr cover Albanian, Croatian, Czech, Hungarian, Polish, Romanian (with a comma and not a cedilla), Slovak, Slovene and Sorbian. 6-Sep-1999 6:56:38-GMT,1780;000000000000 Return-Path: <vvv@vvv.vsu.ru> Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA22115 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 00:56:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay2.vsu.ru (postfix@mail.vsu.ru [62.76.169.17]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA29211 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 02:56:29 -0400 Received: by relay2.vsu.ru (Postfix, from userid 5) id 3B66B1884; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 10:56:11 +0400 (MSD) Received: (from vvv@localhost) by vvv.vsu.ru (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA00927; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 10:51:03 +0400 To: Yannis Haralambous <yannnis@fluxus-virus.com> Cc: tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: Re: question about adobe Cyrillic fonts. References: <199909052316.BAA05563@smtp2.free.fr> From: Vladimir Volovich <vvv@vvv.vsu.ru> Date: 06 Sep 1999 10:51:03 +0400 In-Reply-To: Yannis Haralambous's message of "Mon, 6 Sep 1999 01:18:30 +0200" Message-ID: <m34sh8edns.fsf@vvv.vsu.ru> Lines: 17 User-Agent: Gnus/5.070095 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.95) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii "YH" == Yannis Haralambous writes: YH> "GreekP" stands for polytonic Greek. "Greek" stands for monotonic YH> Greek, but Linotype has done a terrible mistake: instead of using YH> an acute accent glyph for the unique accent, they took a YH> triangle. These fonts should be avoided. For typesetting YH> monotonic Greek, it is better to take a polytonic font and use YH> its acute accent. could it be a mistake of Microsoft but not Linotype (BTW, the font has Adobe's copyright)? :) because the encoding in "Greek" typeface exactly matches MS cp1253 codepage. BTW, what is a triangle? i did not find a glyph with such name in "Greek" font. Best regards, -- Vladimir. 6-Sep-1999 8:47:49-GMT,2453;000000000000 Return-Path: <yannnis@fluxus-virus.com> Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA24367 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 02:47:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.free.fr (root@smtp2.free.fr [212.27.32.6]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA29501 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 04:47:46 -0400 Received: from 212.27.62.195 (lille-62-195.dial.proxad.net [212.27.62.195]) by smtp2.free.fr (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id KAA13075; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 10:37:18 +0200 Message-Id: <199909060837.KAA13075@smtp2.free.fr> Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 10:39:34 +0200 From: Yannis Haralambous <yannnis@fluxus-virus.com> Subject: Re: question about adobe Cyrillic fonts. To: Vladimir Volovich <vvv@vvv.vsu.ru> cc: tex-fonts@tug.org X-Priority: 3 In-Reply-To: <m34sh8edns.fsf@vvv.vsu.ru> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; Charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mailsmith 1.1.4 (Bluto) On 6/09/99 at 10:51, vvv@vvv.vsu.ru (Vladimir Volovich) wrote: > > BTW, what is a triangle? i did not find a glyph with such name in > "Greek" font. > > Best regards, -- Vladimir. > > They probably call it "tonos" or "accent" or "acute". IN the very early days of Greek monotonic system some people wanted to darw the accent as a triangle to show even more the difference with the previous polytonic system. Later on the Government declared the acute accent as the official glyph of the monotonic accent. +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Yannis Haralambous, Ph.D. yannis@fluxus-virus.com | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | 187, rue Nationale fax : +33 (0)3.20.40.28.64 | | 59800 Lille, France tél. : +33 (0)6.07.98.16.26 | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Visit the new trilingual Atelier Fluxus Virus Web site: | | http://www.fluxus-virus.com | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ ...pour distinguer l'extérieur d'un aquarium, mieux vaut n'être pas poisson ...the ball I threw while playing in the park has never reached the ground 6-Sep-1999 11:00:55-GMT,2257;000000000000 Return-Path: <yannnis@fluxus-virus.com> Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA26915 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 05:00:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.free.fr (root@smtp2.free.fr [212.27.32.6]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA29700 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 07:00:53 -0400 Received: from 212.27.62.154 (lille-62-154.dial.proxad.net [212.27.62.154]) by smtp2.free.fr (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id NAA20381 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 13:00:52 +0200 Message-Id: <199909061100.NAA20381@smtp2.free.fr> Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 13:03:08 +0200 From: Yannis Haralambous <yannnis@fluxus-virus.com> Subject: configuring xdvi To: tex-fonts@tug.org X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; Charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mailsmith 1.1.4 (Bluto) Can somebody tell me how to configure xdvi to use PostScript fonts? I am always using dvips and gv, so that all my PostScript fonts are listed in psfonts.map (and similar files). xdvi thinks they are metafont fonts and tries to generate them. In xdvi's man file I couldn't find any reference to a configuration file similar to psfonts.map. Could somebody enlighten me? Thanks in advance Yannis +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Yannis Haralambous, Ph.D. yannis@fluxus-virus.com | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | 187, rue Nationale fax : +33 (0)3.20.40.28.64 | | 59800 Lille, France tél. : +33 (0)6.07.98.16.26 | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Visit the new trilingual Atelier Fluxus Virus Web site: | | http://www.fluxus-virus.com | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ ...pour distinguer l'extérieur d'un aquarium, mieux vaut n'être pas poisson ...the ball I threw while playing in the park has never reached the ground 6-Sep-1999 12:03:20-GMT,1982;000000000000 Return-Path: <steinm@majestix.fernuni-hagen.de> Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA28114 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 06:03:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gehtnix.fernuni-hagen.de (troot@GEHTNIX.fernuni-hagen.de [132.176.5.31]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA29900 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 08:03:14 -0400 Received: (from steinm@localhost) by gehtnix.fernuni-hagen.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA11260; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 14:01:09 +0200 From: Uwe Steinmann <steinm@majestix.fernuni-hagen.de> Message-Id: <199909061201.OAA11260@gehtnix.fernuni-hagen.de> Subject: Re: configuring xdvi In-Reply-To: <199909061100.NAA20381@smtp2.free.fr> from Yannis Haralambous at "Sep 6, 1999 01:03:08 pm" To: Yannis Haralambous <yannnis@fluxus-virus.com> Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 14:01:09 +0200 (MEST) CC: tex-fonts@tug.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL60 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Can somebody tell me how to configure xdvi to use PostScript fonts? > I am always using dvips and gv, so that all my PostScript fonts are listed > in psfonts.map (and similar files). xdvi thinks they are metafont fonts and > tries to generate them. In xdvi's man file I couldn't find any > reference to a configuration file similar to psfonts.map. The xdvi coming with the latest teTeX should find all your Postscript fonts listed in psfonts.map and call gftopk for each of it if needed. However this may fail (as on a system here) if you have several psfonts.map files e.g. in /usr/local/share/texmt and /usr/share/texmf. In such a case it finds one of them. I had to hack mktexpk to look for mypsfonts.map as well. I ran into another problem which kept xdvi from calling gftopk: the env variable VFFONTS was set (due to problems I had in the past with kdvi). When I unset the variable it work without problems. Uwe 6-Sep-1999 12:29:04-GMT,3087;000000000000 Return-Path: <yannnis@fluxus-virus.com> Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA28675 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 06:29:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.free.fr (root@smtp2.free.fr [212.27.32.6]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA30052 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 08:29:00 -0400 Received: from 212.27.62.220 (lille-62-220.dial.proxad.net [212.27.62.220]) by smtp2.free.fr (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id OAA24465; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 14:28:29 +0200 Message-Id: <199909061228.OAA24465@smtp2.free.fr> Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 14:30:45 +0200 From: Yannis Haralambous <yannnis@fluxus-virus.com> Subject: Re: configuring xdvi To: Uwe Steinmann <steinm@majestix.fernuni-hagen.de> cc: tex-fonts@tug.org X-Priority: 3 In-Reply-To: <199909061201.OAA11260@gehtnix.fernuni-hagen.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; Charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mailsmith 1.1.4 (Bluto) On 6/09/99 at 14:01, steinm@majestix.fernuni-hagen.de (Uwe Steinmann) wrote: > The xdvi coming with the latest teTeX should find all your Postscript fonts > listed in psfonts.map and call gftopk for each of it if needed. However > this may fail (as on a system here) if you have several psfonts.map > files e.g. in /usr/local/share/texmt and /usr/share/texmf. In such a > case it finds one of them. I had to hack mktexpk to look for mypsfonts.map > as well. I ran into another problem which kept xdvi from calling gftopk: > the env variable VFFONTS was set (due to problems I had in the past with > kdvi). When I unset the variable it work without problems. Thank for the hint. I started hacking mktexpk myself and found something strange: when I use gsftopk --mapfile=<my .map file> <fontname> <dpi> it works fine: I get a nice pk file. But when I add the -t option then I get no reply at all, weither the font is or not in the .map file And precisely this test is done in the mktexpk script, no wonder it never creates any PK font. Any idea why gsftopk --test --mapfile=<my .map file> <fontname> <dpi> produces no output? yh +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Yannis Haralambous, Ph.D. yannis@fluxus-virus.com | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | 187, rue Nationale fax : +33 (0)3.20.40.28.64 | | 59800 Lille, France tél. : +33 (0)6.07.98.16.26 | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Visit the new trilingual Atelier Fluxus Virus Web site: | | http://www.fluxus-virus.com | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ ...pour distinguer l'extérieur d'un aquarium, mieux vaut n'être pas poisson ...the ball I threw while playing in the park has never reached the ground 6-Sep-1999 19:57:29-GMT,2047;000000000000 Return-Path: <rtietjen@kale.connix.com> Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA08710 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 13:57:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from comet.connix.com (root@comet.connix.com [198.69.10.4]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA32315 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 15:57:16 -0400 Received: from kale (mail@kale.connix.com [204.183.64.34]) by comet.connix.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA00541; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 15:53:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rtietjen by kale with local (Exim 2.05 #1 (Debian)) id 11O3Q4-0005wd-00; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 14:23:08 -0400 To: Yannis Haralambous <yannnis@fluxus-virus.com> Cc: tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: Re: configuring xdvi References: <199909061100.NAA20381@smtp2.free.fr> From: Richard Tietjen <rtietjen@kale.connix.com> Date: 06 Sep 1999 14:23:05 -0400 In-Reply-To: Yannis Haralambous's message of "Mon, 6 Sep 1999 13:03:08 +0200" Message-ID: <874sh7ew6u.fsf@kale.connix.com> Lines: 24 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.45/Emacs 20.3 Sender: Richard Tietjen <rtietjen@kale.connix.com> Yannis Haralambous <yannnis@fluxus-virus.com> writes: > Can somebody tell me how to configure xdvi to use PostScript fonts? > I am always using dvips and gv, so that all my PostScript fonts are listed > in psfonts.map (and similar files). xdvi thinks they are metafont fonts and > tries to generate them. In xdvi's man file I couldn't find any > reference to a configuration file similar to psfonts.map. > > Could somebody enlighten me? > I think `man gsftopk' will give the information you need . As I understand it, teTeX's xdvi is configured to call MakeTeXPK and MakeTeXPK is supposed to call metafont or gsftopk in the case of PS fonts (I haven't looked to see how MakeTeXPK decides to call gsftopk. ==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-== Richard Tietjen rtietjen@connix.com "Irony is what they make two-edged swords from." 7-Sep-1999 9:49:22-GMT,1807;000000000000 Return-Path: <Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr> Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA25912 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 03:49:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.232.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA10617 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 05:49:19 -0400 Received: from mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.241.5]) by ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA00730; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 11:49:15 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from bouche@localhost) by mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.7.6/8.6.9) id LAA11034; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 11:50:24 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 11:50:24 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199909070950.LAA11034@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> From: Thierry Bouche <Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr> To: Richard Tietjen <rtietjen@kale.connix.com> Cc: Yannis Haralambous <yannnis@fluxus-virus.com>, tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: Re: configuring xdvi In-Reply-To: <874sh7ew6u.fsf@kale.connix.com> References: <199909061100.NAA20381@smtp2.free.fr> <874sh7ew6u.fsf@kale.connix.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit » (I haven't looked to see how MakeTeXPK decides to call gsftopk. it greps psfonts.map for the tfm name first. The psfonts.map used is `kpsewhich --prog gsftopk psfonts.map`. gsftopk doesn't parse the whole psfonts.map syntax (with <[) and doesn't look for maps named in another way, so it may be helpfull to have one special psfonts.map in dvips/gsftopk, and to modify the relevant TEXCONFIG.gsftopk (hmm, may be DVIPSCONFIG in recent web2c's) Thierry Bouche, Grenoble. 12-Sep-1999 22:17:37-GMT,1389;000000000000 Return-Path: <mackay@cs.washington.edu> Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA23240 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 16:17:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from june.cs.washington.edu (june.cs.washington.edu [128.95.1.4]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA00585 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 18:17:19 -0400 Received: (mackay@localhost) by june.cs.washington.edu (8.8.7+CS/7.2ju) id PAA15816; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:17:16 -0700 Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:17:16 -0700 From: mackay@cs.washington.edu (Pierre MacKay) Message-Id: <199909122217.PAA15816@june.cs.washington.edu> To: yannnis@fluxus-virus.com CC: ulrik.vieth@bluewin.de, vvv@vvv.vsu.ru, ulrik.vieth@bluewin.de, karl@cs.umb.edu, tex-fonts@tug.org In-reply-to: <199909052316.BAA05563@smtp2.free.fr> (message from Yannis Haralambous on Mon, 6 Sep 1999 01:18:30 +0200) Subject: Re: question about adobe Cyrillic fonts. I have always been partial to the circular dot for the monotonic accent---as initiated, I believe by Papiros. But it is a sort of political manifesto to use it. -- Email: mackay@cs.washington.edu Pierre A. MacKay Smail: Department of Classics Emeritus Druid for 218 Denny Hall, Box 353110 Unix-flavored TeX University of Washington Seattle, WA 98195 (206) 543-2268 (Message recorder) 22-Sep-1999 10:01:53-GMT,5248;000000000000 Return-Path: <sx0005@sx2.hrz.uni-dortmund.de> Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA08571 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 04:01:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from nx5.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE (nx5.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE [129.217.131.21]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA23982 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 06:01:33 -0400 Received: from sx2.hrz.uni-dortmund.de by nx5.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE via smtp-local with ESMTP; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:01:16 +0200 Received: from rigel.univie.ac.at (dial-143190.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE [129.217.143.190]) by sx2.hrz.uni-dortmund.de (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA05845 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:01:12 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from sx0005@localhost) by rigel.univie.ac.at (8.9.3/8.8.8) id LAA04510; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:53:05 GMT Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:53:05 GMT Message-Id: <199909221153.LAA04510@rigel.univie.ac.at> X-Authentication-Warning: rigel.univie.ac.at: sx0005 set sender to sx0005@sx2.hrz.uni-dortmund.de using -f From: Werner LEMBERG <sx0005@sx2.hrz.uni-dortmund.de> To: tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: TrueType & Fontname Reply-to: Werner LEMBERG <wl@gnu.org> More than a year ago I've written about fontnames for TrueType fonts: The only problem is the naming of the fonts: Consider the font Antqua.ttf . It identifies itself as `Book Antiqua Regular' and has been created by Monotype. Looking into the naming scheme I came up with maqr8[rt], but this is apparently for a PostScript font having the same name and creator. I don't have this font but I'm quite sure that neither the outlines nor the metrics are absolutely identical for various reasons mainly due to conversion from one format to another. With other words, if I write a document with a TeX setup having a TrueType maqr8 font, I will get a different result processing it on a TeX setup having a PostScript maqr8 font (besides checksum errors). What to do? I'm rather sure that there is a long list of fonts which exist in both TT and PS formats. The main question is: Should we treat TrueType and PostScript fonts identically? Meanwhile I believe that treating the fonts equal in case the PostScript font name in the TrueType font is identical to the name of a Type 1 font is OK. At least it will simplify life. Just an addition about TTF and PS versions of the same fonts: AFAIK the major font design companies use software to create fonts which stores the master font files in a format which is neither TT nor PS but rather suited to be converted into both. I will now send additions to the fontname scheme to this list from time to time for discussion (and eventual inclusion into the official distribution). Starting point is my ttf2tfm program, which uses a generic mapping file called T1-WGL4.enc to map the available glyphs in the TTFs (usually a subset of the WGL4 character set) to T1. So both the raw and virtual encoding is T1 already -- I will use `8r' and `8t' for consistency. Nevertheless, my major concern is how to handle CJK subfonts (i.e., splitting large Asian character sets into subfont with 256 characters each). Here my proposal for subfonts: `x' S TT W V XX S The supplier. TT The typeface name. Must also include the character set. W The weight. V The variant. XX A running digit indicating the subfont. Since the available typeface character combinations are almost exhausted already, I suggest to use completely new mapping files if the first letter is `x', e.g. `xsupp.map', `xtypface.map', `xweight.map', and `xvariant.map' (the latter two would not be really necessary but it simplifies parsing). Example: mincho.ttc for Japanese This font contains the JIS X 0208 character set encoded originally in Unicode. Since this is not useful for TeX for various reasons, ttf2tfm reencodes the font to the EUC character encoding. The vendor is Microsoft, its PostScript name is `MS-Mincho', its weight is `regular'. [TTC indicates that it is a TrueType collection, containing more than one TTF. In this case, some non-CJK characters have either `fullwidth' or proportional widths. `Fullwidth' means that e.g. ASCII characters have the same width as CJK glyphs. This is of no importance here since the non-CJK glyphs usually are of poor quality.] Let's assume that `mc' indicates MS-Mincho in EUC encoding. So subfont names according to my suggestion would be x j mc r + running digit, i.e. xjmcr01, xjmcr02, ... xjmcr32 In a similar fashion, subfonts based on CID-keyed PostScript fonts could be named (at home I have something working for ghostscript. It is necessary to add just one line to texps.pro...) Just recently they have become freely available together with Acrobat 4. Please comment. Werner PS: Two questions about the fontname.texinfo: I can't find an explanation what e.g. the entry `- jknappen' means. Please help. Similarly, I'm missing an explanation why so many fonts have `__' as the typeface. How will this be handled? Answers to these two questions should probably be added to fontname.texinfo. 22-Sep-1999 11:59:39-GMT,1517;000000000000 Return-Path: <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA10785 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 05:59:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA24749 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 07:59:37 -0400 Received: from MAURITIUS (maui.ai.mit.edu [128.52.37.105]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.3/AI2.13/ai.master.life:2.10) with ESMTP id HAA16036; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 07:59:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990922075455.017faeb0@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 07:57:31 -0400 To: Werner LEMBERG <wl@gnu.org>, tex-fonts@tug.org From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Subject: Re: TrueType & Fontname In-Reply-To: <199909221153.LAA04510@rigel.univie.ac.at> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I would just say that the one exception to the "equal metrics for corresponding Type 1 and TrueType fonts" is the "non-linear scaling" idea once much touted as an advantage for TrueType and hyped up as equivalent to "optical scaling". Fortunately this bad idea seems to have died out, since it will cause reflow whenever you change the screen resolution (since the character widths are adjusted to suite the ppem!). Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph 22-Sep-1999 14:06:59-GMT,3284;000000000000 Return-Path: <Lars.Hellstrom@math.umu.se> Received: from abel.math.umu.se (abel.math.umu.se [130.239.20.139]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA13445 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 08:06:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [130.239.20.144] (mac144.math.umu.se [130.239.20.144]) by abel.math.umu.se (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id QAA19865 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:04:52 +0200 (CEST) X-Sender: lars@abel.math.umu.se Message-Id: <l03130300b40e702542f3@[130.239.20.144]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:06:54 +0200 To: TeX-fonts list <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> From: Lars =?iso-8859-1?Q?Hellstr=F6m?= <Lars.Hellstrom@math.umu.se> Subject: Re: TrueType & Fontname Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by csc-sun.math.utah.edu id IAA13446 It is clear (and has been for some time) that the current Fontname scheme is insufficient---Werner Lemberg's comments about TeX names for CJK subfonts is yet another sign of this---and the main problem is still the requirement that the TeX font names must be valid file names in all major file systems. I say let go of that! If names up to 20--24 characters are allowed, solving all these naming problems becomes simple for the foreseeable future (and most likely a good deal longer). And yes, we've had this discussion before. It is quite true that not everyone is on a file system that can handle names that long and neither can be expected to buy one, but there are systems (e.g. kpathsea in web2c) which can perform non-identity mapping of TeX font names to file names. The TeX Live CDs now contains long filenames (in at least two different formats) for files not fonts, so why should it not be possible for fonts as well? The mere existence of a scheme for long font names does not make the short names unnecessary. In the case a mapping of long font names to shorter file names is employed, one still has to have a scheme for short names, even though they might be entirely site-specific. Using the Fontname scheme as far as possible and assigning arbitrary names consisting entirely of digits to resolve any collisions or insufficiencies in Fontname that are encountered should work fine. Furthermore, if a system for long names is designed so that no long name is shorter than nine characters, then nothing says one cannot use the current naming scheme for some names and the new scheme for others. In particular, those who are on old systems AND cannot use kpathsea (or something similar for name mapping) AND produce files that use non-CM fonts AND send these files to other people can STILL continue to use the current Fontname scheme without any risk of fonts being confused. That's more than one can say about the current situation concerning Fontname names and names of various MF fonts. The design of a scheme for long font names should be begun, the sooner the better. As for Walter Lemberg's suggestion, I can see nothing wrong with it, but one simply cannot continue to add patches (after all, that's what it would be) to the current Fontname scheme for much longer. The partitioning of the namespace is now alarmingly far advanced. Lars Hellström 22-Sep-1999 15:54:04-GMT,2622;000000000000 Return-Path: <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA16432 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:54:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from MAURITIUS (maui.ai.mit.edu [128.52.37.105]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.3/AI2.13/ai.master.life:2.10) with ESMTP id LAA29957; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:53:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990922114406.018ab200@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:51:55 -0400 To: Lars Hellström <Lars.Hellstrom@math.umu.se>, TeX-fonts list <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Subject: Re: TrueType & Fontname In-Reply-To: <l03130300b40e702542f3@[130.239.20.144]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit f there were to be a new fontname scheme for TeX, then I would recommend basing it on something inherent in the font - not invented. In the case of Type 1 fonts this could be the PS FontName (not Full Name or Family Name) - plus encoding. In the case of TrueType it could be the full name, except you'd have to get rid of the spaces by replacing them with underscore or hyphen or something. An alternative would be the "font menu" name plus style, but in some cases of badly made fonts this may be different on the Mac and in Windows. Also, this information is not in the PFB or PFA file but in the corresponding metric file (PFM or "screen font"). When the restriction on length is lifted there is no need to have a central authority come up with names. It will be possible for everyone to derive the name from the font itself, and be assured that someone else doing it will get the same result. I would also recommend not decorating the name to death and ending up with absurdly long names such as those popular in some font support software... At 04:06 PM 9/22/99 +0200, Lars Hellström wrote: >It is clear (and has been for some time) that the current Fontname scheme >is insufficient---Werner Lemberg's comments about TeX names for CJK >subfonts is yet another sign of this---and the main problem is still the >requirement that the TeX font names must be valid file names in all major >file systems. I say let go of that! If names up to 20--24 characters are >allowed, solving all these naming problems becomes simple for the >foreseeable future (and most likely a good deal longer). ... Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph 22-Sep-1999 22:04:25-GMT,1402;000000000000 Return-Path: <karl@cs.umb.edu> Received: from cs.umb.edu (root@cs.umb.edu [158.121.104.2]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA27224 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:04:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hub.cs.umb.edu (karl@hub.cs.umb.edu [158.121.104.161]) by cs.umb.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA18649 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:04:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Karl Berry <karl@cs.umb.edu> Received: (from karl@localhost) by hub.cs.umb.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA25726; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:04:18 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:04:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199909222204.SAA25726@hub.cs.umb.edu> To: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: TrueType & Fontname f there were to be a new fontname scheme for TeX, then I would recommend basing it on something inherent in the font - not invented. In the case of Type 1 fonts this could be the PS FontName (not Full Name or Family Name) - plus encoding. Fonts have been available under their PostScript names (from the *.map files) for years now. No one I know of uses those names, though. I agree (and agreed from the beginning) that 8 characters is insufficient. Anything that can be done would be good :). I really am not the one to drive this any more. Anyone else (Lars, Werner, Vladimir, ...) will be more qualified and have more need to work it out :). 22-Sep-1999 22:05:34-GMT,1271;000000000000 Return-Path: <karl@cs.umb.edu> Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA27236 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:05:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cs.umb.edu (root@cs.umb.edu [158.121.104.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA28601 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:04:24 -0400 Received: from hub.cs.umb.edu (karl@hub.cs.umb.edu [158.121.104.161]) by cs.umb.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA18658; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:04:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Karl Berry <karl@cs.umb.edu> Received: (from karl@localhost) by hub.cs.umb.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA25756; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:04:19 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:04:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199909222204.SAA25756@hub.cs.umb.edu> To: wl@gnu.org Cc: tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: Re: TrueType & Fontname explanation what e.g. the entry `- jknappen' means. It means he didn't get a foundry letter because he was happy with f, but he wanted his own supplier directory :). Similarly, I'm missing an explanation why so many fonts have `__' as the typeface. Because there aren't enough letters to assign them all, so I only gave assignments to the ones people actually wrote me about :). 22-Sep-1999 22:28:55-GMT,2237;000000000000 Return-Path: <sx0005@sx2.hrz.uni-dortmund.de> Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28005 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:28:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from nx5.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE (nx5.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE [129.217.131.21]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA28697 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:28:47 -0400 Received: from sx2.hrz.uni-dortmund.de by nx5.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE via smtp-local with ESMTP; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 00:28:43 +0200 Received: from rigel.univie.ac.at (dial-143166.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE [129.217.143.166]) by sx2.hrz.uni-dortmund.de (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA17588 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 00:28:40 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from sx0005@localhost) by rigel.univie.ac.at (8.9.3/8.8.8) id AAA04961; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 00:24:19 GMT Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 00:24:19 GMT Message-Id: <199909230024.AAA04961@rigel.univie.ac.at> X-Authentication-Warning: rigel.univie.ac.at: sx0005 set sender to sx0005@sx2.hrz.uni-dortmund.de using -f From: Werner LEMBERG <sx0005@sx2.hrz.uni-dortmund.de> To: tex-fonts@tug.org In-reply-to: <4.2.0.58.19990922075455.017faeb0@mail.ai.mit.edu> (bkph@ai.mit.edu) Subject: Re: TrueType & Fontname Reply-to: Werner LEMBERG <wl@gnu.org> References: <4.2.0.58.19990922075455.017faeb0@mail.ai.mit.edu> I would just say that the one exception to the "equal metrics for corresponding Type 1 and TrueType fonts" is the "non-linear scaling" idea once much touted as an advantage for TrueType and hyped up as equivalent to "optical scaling". Fortunately this bad idea seems to have died out, since it will cause reflow whenever you change the screen resolution (since the character widths are adjusted to suite the ppem!). Well, at least the FreeType rastering engine offers both non-linearly scaled metrics (as automatically given if hinting is activated) for display on screens and linearly scaled metrics for typesetting purposes. I doubt that the problem of non-linear scaling is relevant for TeX issues at all, since most printers work at resolutions where hinting is deactivated resp. without influence. Werner 23-Sep-1999 7:45:11-GMT,3837;000000000000 Return-Path: <sx0005@sx2.hrz.uni-dortmund.de> Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA11328 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 01:45:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from nx5.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE (nx5.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE [129.217.131.21]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA00046 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 03:45:09 -0400 Received: from sx2.hrz.uni-dortmund.de by nx5.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE via smtp-local with ESMTP; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:44:29 +0200 Received: from rigel.univie.ac.at (dial-143177.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE [129.217.143.177]) by sx2.hrz.uni-dortmund.de (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA28959 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:44:25 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from sx0005@localhost) by rigel.univie.ac.at (8.9.3/8.8.8) id JAA05136; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:18:03 GMT Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:18:03 GMT Message-Id: <199909230918.JAA05136@rigel.univie.ac.at> X-Authentication-Warning: rigel.univie.ac.at: sx0005 set sender to sx0005@sx2.hrz.uni-dortmund.de using -f From: Werner LEMBERG <sx0005@sx2.hrz.uni-dortmund.de> To: tex-fonts@tug.org In-reply-to: <4.2.0.58.19990922183720.00a3cea8@ai.mit.edu> (message from Berthold Horn on Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:39:23 -0400) Subject: Re: TrueType & Fontname Reply-to: Werner LEMBERG <wl@gnu.org> References: <4.2.0.58.19990922075455.017faeb0@mail.ai.mit.edu> <4.2.0.58.19990922075455.017faeb0@mail.ai.mit.edu> <4.2.0.58.19990922183720.00a3cea8@ai.mit.edu> >Well, at least the FreeType rastering engine offers both >non-linearly scaled metrics (as automatically given if hinting is >activated) for display on screens and linearly scaled metrics for >typesetting purposes. I doubt that the problem of non-linear >scaling is relevant for TeX issues at all, since most printers >work at resolutions where hinting is deactivated resp. without >influence. Are we talking about the same thing (we may very well be, I am just asking). I am not talking about adjustements to the glyphs via hinting. I am talking about adjustments to the metrics of the font (advance width) based on grid fitting to a finite grid. An unusually bad idea in my opinion. You are mixing up two rather unrelated purposes of TrueType fonts. The first purpose is to serve as a font for screen display (usually done with bitmap glyphs on other OSes), and the second is the classical use for typography. TrueType fonts can contain two sets of metrics (and even four if the font is intended for vertical writing also). The `hdmx' table (Horizontal Device Metrics), the `hmtx' table (Horizontal Metrics), and the vertical pendants. If you use the font for screen display, e.g., to show a system message in a pop-up window or to support a web browser, you have different sets of device metrics for assorted ppem values in the hdmx table -- better TT fonts like arial for Windows contain a lot of hinting instructions to make the font outline appear pleasing at such low resolutions. And to do that properly, you have to modify advance widths even within the glyph itself. Note that not all fonts have a hdmx table since it is optional. Usually, a missing hdmx table indicates that this font is not to be used for screen display and will render badly at extremely low ppem values. So non-linearly scaled metrics are useful, but not for typography of course. On the other hand, the hmtx table always give linearly scaled metrics for typographical purposes, and this is what word processors will use. E.g. if I send you a file in Word say (heaven forbid) and you look at it on your screen you will get different line and page breaks if your screen resolution is not the same. This won't happen for the reasons outlined above. Werner 23-Sep-1999 8:30:43-GMT,3018;000000000000 Return-Path: <dol@ce.chalmers.se> Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA12346 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 02:30:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from solen.ce.chalmers.se (solen.ce.chalmers.se [129.16.20.244]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA00746 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 04:30:35 -0400 Received: from blomman13.ce.chalmers.se (blomman13.ce.chalmers.se [129.16.21.43]) by solen.ce.chalmers.se (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA04090 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 10:30:34 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dol@localhost) by blomman13.ce.chalmers.se (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA10152 for tex-fonts@tug.org; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 10:30:34 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 10:30:34 +0200 From: Fredrik Lundholm <dol@ce.chalmers.se> To: tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: fontname 2.7 diff for TimesTen Message-ID: <19990923103033.A10127@ce.chalmers.se> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre2i Hello, in order to enhance support for the TimesTen font (from the adobe.map file) the following diff would be beneficial: (please notify me if this is an inappropriate forum for this letter) *** adobe.map Thu Sep 23 10:04:34 1999 --- adobe.map.org Thu Sep 23 09:53:49 1999 *************** *** 333,345 **** phnm8a HelveticaNeue-Medium A 061 hlm_____ phnmi8a HelveticaNeue-MediumItalic A 061 hlmi____ pttb8a TimesTen-Bold A 062 ttb_____ ! pttbj8a TimesTen-BoldOsF A 062 ttbof___ ! pttbi8a TimesTen-BoldItalic A 062 ttbi____ ! pttbij8a TimesTen-BoldItalicOsF A 062 ttbio___ pttri8a TimesTen-Italic A 062 tti_____ - pttrij8a TimesTen-ItalicOsF A 062 ttiof___ pttr8a TimesTen-Roman A 062 ttr_____ - pttrc8a TimesTen-RomanSC A 062 ttrsc___ pkur8a Kaufmann A 063 kf______ pkub8a Kaufmann-Bold A 063 kfb_____ pcdr8a Clarendon A 064 cl______ --- 333,341 ---- phnm8a HelveticaNeue-Medium A 061 hlm_____ phnmi8a HelveticaNeue-MediumItalic A 061 hlmi____ pttb8a TimesTen-Bold A 062 ttb_____ ! pttri8a TimesTen-BoldItalic A 062 ttbi____ pttri8a TimesTen-Italic A 062 tti_____ pttr8a TimesTen-Roman A 062 ttr_____ pkur8a Kaufmann A 063 kf______ pkub8a Kaufmann-Bold A 063 kfb_____ pcdr8a Clarendon A 064 cl______ /wfr -- Fredrik Lundholm systems administrator at ce.chalmers.se dol@ce.chalmers.se voice: +46 31 7721697 fax: +46 31 7723663 24-Sep-1999 22:05:37-GMT,4065;000000000000 Return-Path: <vieth@bluewin.de> Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08234 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 16:05:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from zarquon.dynamic-ip (vieth@stu1ir11-100-156.ras.tesion.net [195.226.100.156]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA13617 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:05:22 -0400 Received: (from vieth@localhost) by zarquon.dynamic-ip (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id AAA00527; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 00:09:04 +0200 Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 00:09:04 +0200 Message-Id: <199909242209.AAA00527@zarquon.dynamic-ip> To: dol@ce.chalmers.se CC: tex-fonts@tug.org In-reply-to: <19990923103033.A10127@ce.chalmers.se> (message from Fredrik Lundholm on Thu, 23 Sep 1999 10:30:34 +0200) Subject: Re: fontname 2.7 diff for TimesTen From: Ulrik Vieth <ulrik.vieth@bluewin.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: <19990923103033.A10127@ce.chalmers.se> > Hello, in order to enhance support for the TimesTen font (from the > adobe.map file) the following diff would be beneficial: > (please notify me if this is an inappropriate forum for this letter) Sorry, but this isn't quite right. You're correct about the typo for TimesTen-BoldItalic, which should be pttbi8a not pttri8a, of course. However, it would be wrong to add entries for TimesTen SC+OsF fonts to package #062 if they actually belong into package #196. Here is the corrected list: pttb8a TimesTen-Bold A 062 ttb_____ pttbi8a TimesTen-BoldItalic A 062 ttbi____ pttri8a TimesTen-Italic A 062 tti_____ pttr8a TimesTen-Roman A 062 ttr_____ pttbij8a TimesTen-BoldItalicOsF A 196 ttbio___ pttbj8a TimesTen-BoldOsF A 196 ttbof___ pttrij8a TimesTen-ItalicOsF A 196 ttiof___ pttrc8a TimesTen-RomanSC A 196 ttrsc___ Cheers, Ulrik. P.S.: When I last looked at the Adobe Web Site, I noticed that there is yet another bunch of new or repackaged font packages that need to be added to adobe.map. p_____ Strumpf-Open A 507 ufou____ p_____ Strumpf-Contour A 507 ufcnt___ malr8a AlbertusMT A 508 lr______ malri8a AlbertusMT-Italic A 508 lri_____ mall8a AlbertusMT-Light A 508 lrl_____ mtlr8a CastellarMT A 509 el______ panr8a Anna A 510 iarg____ p_____ Beesknees A 511 ikh_____ p_____ MonaLisa-Recut A 512 iyin____ p_____ MonaLisa-Solid A 512 iysd____ p_____ Ozwald A 513 ozh_____ p_____ Amigo A 514 ig______ pmgr8a Marigold A 515 my______ pofr8a Oxford A 516 of______ p_____ Pelican A 517 lq______ pvgr8a Visigoth A 518 vg______ ptjb8a Trajan-Bold A 519 tjb_____ ptjr8a Trajan-Regular A 519 tjrg____ pcgb8a Charlemagne-Bold A 520 czb_____ pcgr8a Charlemagne-Regular A 520 czrg____ pbsr8a BakerSignet A 521 ba______ picr8a Impact A 522 impa____ pkxrd8a Kigali-Block A 523 kxblk___ pkxrw8a Kigali-ZigZag A 524 kxdc____ potb8a Coronet-Bold A 525 n_b_____ potr8a Coronet A 525 n_rg____ pdkb8a Diskus-Bold A 526 d_b_____ pdkr8a Diskus A 526 d_rg____ 1-Oct-1999 12:37:06-GMT,1873;000000000000 Return-Path: <te@informatik.uni-hannover.de> Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA11201 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 06:37:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from regulus.informatik.uni-hannover.de (te@regulus.informatik.uni-hannover.de [130.75.26.7]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA18464 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 08:36:48 -0400 Received: (from te@localhost) by regulus.informatik.uni-hannover.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA05460; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 14:36:13 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 14:36:13 +0200 (MET DST) From: Thomas Esser <te@informatik.uni-hannover.de> Message-Id: <199910011236.OAA05460@regulus.informatik.uni-hannover.de> To: steinm@majestix.fernuni-hagen.de, yannnis@fluxus-virus.com Cc: tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: Re: configuring xdvi > > The xdvi coming with the latest teTeX should find all your Postscript fonts > > listed in psfonts.map and call gftopk for each of it if needed. However Not 100% correct. mktexpk calls gsftopk with the -t (same as --test) and this reads the same map files as dvips -Pgsftopk would do. gsftopk -t just returns an exit code which mktexpk uses to decide whether gsftopk supports a given font or not. > it works fine: I get a nice pk file. But when I add the -t option then > I get no reply at all, weither the font is or not in the .map file > And precisely this test is done in the mktexpk script, no wonder it never > creates any PK font. > > Any idea why > gsftopk --test --mapfile=<my .map file> <fontname> <dpi> > produces no output? gsftopk --test is supposed to produce no pk file. Look at the return code of gsftopk, in bash e.g. with echo $? to see which answer gsftopk passes to mktexpk. Use KPATHSEA_DEBUG=4 (environment variable) to see which files gsftopk really reads. Thomas 6-Oct-1999 22:17:06-GMT,1355;000000000000 Return-Path: <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> Received: from mail.arcor-ip.de (mail-ffm-p.arcor-ip.de [145.253.2.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29210 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:17:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from nbgdi4-145-253-068-033.arcor-ip.net (145.253.68.33) by mail.arcor-ip.de; 7 Oct 1999 00:16:25 +0200 Message-ID: <37fbca3937fb0603@mail.arcor-ip.de> (added by mail.arcor-ip.de) From: "Walter Schmidt" <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> To: "tex-fonts" <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 00:15:35 +0200 (MSZ) Reply-To: "Walter Schmidt" <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail/2 PMMail 2.00.1500 for OS/2 Warp 4.00 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: afm's for Monotype TimesNewRomanPSMT Hi, I want to use the Monotype TimesNewRoman font family with LaTeX; precisely the one that comes with Adobe Acrobat 4; the FontName of the regular series is: TimesNewRomanPSMT Where can I find either afm's or ready-made metrics, vf's and .fd files? I have already taken a look at the TeXLive4 CD-ROM; however, the dvips map file has got entries for TimesNewRomanPS TimesNRMT TimesNewRoman which are obviously different FontNames. Thank you in advance for your help Walter 8-Oct-1999 10:49:40-GMT,1682;000000000000 Return-Path: <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA13913 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 04:49:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from MAURITIUS (maui.ai.mit.edu [128.52.37.105]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.3/AI2.13/ai.master.life:2.10) with ESMTP id GAA19733 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 06:49:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.2.1.9.19991008064454.01bea360@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.1.9 (Beta) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 06:47:54 -0400 To: "tex-fonts" <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Subject: Re: afm's for Monotype TimesNewRomanPSMT In-Reply-To: <37fbca3937fb0603@mail.arcor-ip.de> (added by mail.arcor-ip.de) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi: I placed metric files at http://www.YandY.com/ly1/acrometric.zip The AFMs where made from the Acrobat fonts using tools from the Font Manipulation Package (http://www.YandY.com/products.htm#FMP) but should also be available from Adobe's FTP site. Fortunately the *.fd files are trivial, and left as an exercise for the reader :-). Regards, Berthold. At 12:15 AM 10/7/1999 +0200, Walter Schmidt wrote: >Hi, > >I want to use the Monotype TimesNewRoman font >family with LaTeX; precisely the one that >comes with Adobe Acrobat 4; the FontName of the >regular series is: > >TimesNewRomanPSMT > >Where can I find either afm's or ready-made >metrics, vf's and .fd files? Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph 11-Oct-1999 22:38:32-GMT,1740;000000000000 Return-Path: <apandey@u.washington.edu> Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18307 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 16:38:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jason04.u.washington.edu (root@jason04.u.washington.edu [140.142.78.5]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA21637 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 18:38:29 -0400 Received: from saul1.u.washington.edu (apandey@saul1.u.washington.edu [140.142.82.10]) by jason04.u.washington.edu (8.9.3+UW99.09/8.9.3+UW99.09) with ESMTP id PAA12276 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 15:38:26 -0700 Received: from localhost (apandey@localhost) by saul1.u.washington.edu (8.9.3+UW99.09/8.9.3+UW99.09) with ESMTP id PAA04345 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 15:38:26 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 15:38:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Anshuman Pandey <apandey@u.washington.edu> To: tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: Correction to adobe.map Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.10.9910111536110.18994-100000@saul1.u.washington.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII adobe.map v2.7 gives the following info for AJenson (#914) @c "Touch of Classics 3" A 914 pajrd8a AJenson-RegularDisplay A 914 jsds____ pajri8a AJenson-Italic A 914 jsi_____ pajr8a AJenson-Regular A 914 jsrc____ pajs8a AJenson-Semibold A 914 jssb____ pajrc8a AJenson-RegularSC A 914 jssc____ I believe the Adobe DOS name of AJenson-Regular is listed incorrectly as jsrc____. The proper designation is in fact jsrg____. Thank you. Regards, Anshuman Pandey 13-Oct-1999 17:50:41-GMT,1275;000000000000 Return-Path: <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> Received: from mail.arcor-ip.de (mail-ffm-p.arcor-ip.de [145.253.2.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17252 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:50:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from muedi43-145-253-101-081.arcor-ip.net (145.253.101.81) by mail.arcor-ip.de; 13 Oct 1999 19:49:46 +0200 Message-ID: <3804c63b3804f5a2@mail.arcor-ip.de> (added by mail.arcor-ip.de) From: "Walter Schmidt" <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> To: "tex-fonts" <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 19:27:32 +0200 (MSZ) Reply-To: "Walter Schmidt" <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail/2 PMMail 2.00.1500 for OS/2 Warp 4.00 In-Reply-To: <4.2.1.9.19991008064454.01bea360@mail.ai.mit.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: afm's for Monotype TimesNewRomanPSMT On Fri, 08 Oct 1999 06:47:54 -0400, Berthold K.P. Horn wrote: >The AFMs where made from the Acrobat fonts using tools from the >Font Manipulation Package (http://www.YandY.com/products.htm#FMP) >but should also be available from Adobe's FTP site. I had tried Adobe's FTP site, but couldn't find them. Do you know the exact URL? Walter 17-Oct-1999 20:04:35-GMT,1586;000000000000 Return-Path: <sx0005@sx2.hrz.uni-dortmund.de> Received: from nx5.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE (nx5.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE [129.217.131.21]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24802 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 14:04:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sx2.hrz.uni-dortmund.de by nx5.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE via smtp-local with ESMTP; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 22:04:30 +0200 Received: from rigel.univie.ac.at (dial-143155.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE [129.217.143.155]) by sx2.hrz.uni-dortmund.de (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA00538 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 22:04:26 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (sx0005@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rigel.univie.ac.at (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA02412 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 22:03:20 GMT To: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: bug in pplrc8t From: Werner LEMBERG <sx0005@sx2.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.94 on Emacs 20.4 / Mule 4.0 (HANANOEN) Reply-To: Werner LEMBERG <wl@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19991017220320I.sx0005@sx2.hrz.uni-dortmund.de> Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 22:03:20 GMT X-Dispatcher: imput version 990905(IM130) Lines: 10 The Palatino Small Caps virtual font file `pplrc8t.vf', as distributed from CTAN (dated 1998-Jul-07), misses the macron accent. And this is apparently true for other Adobe small caps fonts also. Is this a known bug? If yes, where can I download improved VF and TFM files for the standard 35 Adobe PS fonts? Werner 17-Oct-1999 20:54:51-GMT,1409;000000000000 Return-Path: <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> Received: from mail.arcor-ip.de (mail-ffm-p.arcor-ip.de [145.253.2.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25842 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 14:54:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from nbgdi4-145-253-068-070.arcor-ip.net (145.253.68.70) by mail.arcor-ip.de; 17 Oct 1999 22:54:18 +0200 Message-ID: <380a377a380b7135@mail.arcor-ip.de> (added by mail.arcor-ip.de) From: "Walter Schmidt" <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> To: "Werner LEMBERG" <wl@gnu.org> Cc: "tex-fonts" <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 22:50:43 +0200 (MSZ) Reply-To: "Walter Schmidt" <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail/2 PMMail 2.00.1500 for OS/2 Warp 4.00 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: bug in pplrc8t On Sun, 17 Oct 1999 22:03:20 GMT, Werner LEMBERG wrote: >The Palatino Small Caps virtual font file `pplrc8t.vf', as distributed >from CTAN (dated 1998-Jul-07), misses the macron accent. And this is >apparently true for other Adobe small caps fonts also. > >Is this a known bug? Ooops, I have never noticed this! The problems seems to be due to fontinst; the macron is also lacking from non-Adobe sc fonts, which I have made myself (rather than taken from CTAN.) One more bug to be fixed with the next PSNFSS! Walter 18-Oct-1999 12:27:13-GMT,2018;000000000000 Return-Path: <Lars.Hellstrom@math.umu.se> Received: from abel.math.umu.se (abel.math.umu.se [130.239.20.139]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA13841 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 06:27:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [130.239.20.144] (mac144.math.umu.se [130.239.20.144]) by abel.math.umu.se (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id OAA28420; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:24:36 +0200 (CEST) X-Sender: lars@abel.math.umu.se Message-Id: <l03130300b430bb4711a1@[130.239.20.144]> In-Reply-To: <380a377a380b7135@mail.arcor-ip.de> (added by mail.arcor-ip.de) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:27:01 +0200 To: "Walter Schmidt" <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> From: Lars =?iso-8859-1?Q?Hellstr=F6m?= <Lars.Hellstrom@math.umu.se> Subject: Re: bug in pplrc8t Cc: "Werner LEMBERG" <wl@gnu.org>, TeX-fonts list <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by csc-sun.math.utah.edu id GAA13843 Walter Schmidt wrote: >On Sun, 17 Oct 1999 22:03:20 GMT, Werner LEMBERG wrote: > >>The Palatino Small Caps virtual font file `pplrc8t.vf', as >distributed >>from CTAN (dated 1998-Jul-07), misses the macron accent. And this is >>apparently true for other Adobe small caps fonts also. >> >>Is this a known bug? > >Ooops, I have never noticed this! > >The problems seems to be due to fontinst; >the macron is also lacking from non-Adobe >sc fonts, which I have made myself (rather than >taken from CTAN.) After some browsing of files, I think I can say that the error lies in latin.mtx. The encoding expects the glyph for the macron accent to be named Macronsmall in this context, and latin.mtx never says \setglyph{Macronsmall} \cscglyph{macron} \endsetglyph although it says for example \setglyph{Cedillasmall} \cscglyph{cedilla} \endsetglyph Therefore, since the glyph is never set, it will just be ignored when the VPL is written. Lars Hellström 18-Oct-1999 12:56:22-GMT,2021;000000000000 Return-Path: <sx0005@sx2.hrz.uni-dortmund.de> Received: from nx5.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE (nx5.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE [129.217.131.21]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA14439 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 06:56:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sx2.hrz.uni-dortmund.de by nx5.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE via smtp-local with ESMTP; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:55:56 +0200 Received: from rigel.univie.ac.at (dial-143177.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE [129.217.143.177]) by sx2.hrz.uni-dortmund.de (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA22263; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:55:53 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from localhost (sx0005@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rigel.univie.ac.at (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA02596; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:02:12 GMT To: walter.schmidt@arcormail.de Cc: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: bug in pplrc8t From: Werner LEMBERG <sx0005@sx2.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE> In-Reply-To: <380a377a380b7135@mail.arcor-ip.de> References: <380a377a380b7135@mail.arcor-ip.de> <380a377a380b7135@mail.arcor-ip.de> (added by mail.arcor-ip.de) X-Mailer: Mew version 1.94 on Emacs 20.4 / Mule 4.0 (HANANOEN) Reply-To: Werner LEMBERG <wl@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19991018090212C.sx0005@sx2.hrz.uni-dortmund.de> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:02:12 GMT X-Dispatcher: imput version 990905(IM130) Lines: 21 > >The Palatino Small Caps virtual font file `pplrc8t.vf', as > >distributed from CTAN (dated 1998-Jul-07), misses the macron > >accent. And this is apparently true for other Adobe small caps > >fonts also. > > > >Is this a known bug? > > Ooops, I have never noticed this! > > The problems seems to be due to fontinst; the macron is also lacking > from non-Adobe sc fonts, which I have made myself (rather than taken > from CTAN.) > > One more bug to be fixed with the next PSNFSS! When will this be corrected/released? Where can I find beta versions resp. fixed versions (of fontinst, PSNFSS etc.)? Werner 18-Oct-1999 13:11:35-GMT,1462;000000000000 Return-Path: <sebastian.rahtz@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> Received: from oxmail.ox.ac.uk (oxmail3.ox.ac.uk [163.1.2.9]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA14808 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 07:11:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ermine.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.2.13]) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #1) id 11dCZX-0006vR-00; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:11:31 +0100 Received: from spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.15.17]) by ermine.ox.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11dCZW-0006oi-00; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:11:30 +0100 From: Sebastian Rahtz <sebastian.rahtz@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14347.7296.761942.964550@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:11:28 +0100 (BST) To: wl@gnu.org Cc: walter.schmidt@arcormail.de, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: bug in pplrc8t In-Reply-To: <19991018090212C.sx0005@sx2.hrz.uni-dortmund.de> References: <380a377a380b7135@mail.arcor-ip.de> <19991018090212C.sx0005@sx2.hrz.uni-dortmund.de> X-Mailer: VM 6.73 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Werner LEMBERG writes: > > One more bug to be fixed with the next PSNFSS! > > When will this be corrected/released? Where can I find beta versions > resp. fixed versions (of fontinst, PSNFSS etc.)? CTAN:macros/latex/tools/psnfss-beta I guess its up to Walter when to release it to replace /psnfss. sebastian 18-Oct-1999 13:48:16-GMT,1693;000000000000 Return-Path: <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> Received: from mail.arcor-ip.de (mail-ffm-p.arcor-ip.de [145.253.2.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA15639 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 07:48:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from nbgdi3-145-253-067-220.arcor-ip.net (145.253.67.220) by mail.arcor-ip.de; 18 Oct 1999 15:47:37 +0200 Message-ID: <380b24fa380c9890@mail.arcor-ip.de> (added by mail.arcor-ip.de) From: "Walter Schmidt" <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> To: "tex-fonts" <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:46:29 +0200 (MSZ) Reply-To: "Walter Schmidt" <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail/2 PMMail 2.00.1500 for OS/2 Warp 4.00 In-Reply-To: <14347.7296.761942.964550@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: Re: bug in pplrc8t Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by csc-sun.math.utah.edu id HAA15642 On Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:27:01 +0200, Lars Hellström wrote: >After some browsing of files, I think I can say that the error lies in >latin.mtx.[...] I'll try this out and shall upload fixed tfm's and vf's to PSNFSS-beta then. Please, give me some time! On Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:11:28 +0100 (BST), Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > When will this be corrected/released? Where can I find beta versions > > resp. fixed versions (of fontinst, PSNFSS etc.)? > >CTAN:macros/latex/tools/psnfss-beta All the changes over the old PSNFSS refer to other things so far. >I guess its up to Walter when to release it to replace /psnfss. Hopefully, before the end of this millenium ... Best wishes Walter 18-Oct-1999 14:58:13-GMT,1768;000000000000 Return-Path: <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> Received: from mail.arcor-ip.de (mail-ffm-p.arcor-ip.de [145.253.2.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA17506 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 08:58:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from muedi3-145-253-073-137.arcor-ip.net (145.253.73.137) by mail.arcor-ip.de; 18 Oct 1999 16:57:41 +0200 Message-ID: <380b3565380cb09e@mail.arcor-ip.de> (added by mail.arcor-ip.de) From: "Walter Schmidt" <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> To: "=?iso-8859-1?q?Lars_Hellstr=F6m?=" <Lars.Hellstrom@math.umu.se> Cc: "TeX-fonts list" <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:56:40 +0200 (MSZ) Reply-To: "Walter Schmidt" <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail/2 PMMail 2.00.1500 for OS/2 Warp 4.00 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: Re: bug in pplrc8t Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by csc-sun.math.utah.edu id IAA17510 On Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:27:01 +0200, Lars Hellström wrote: >After some browsing of files, I think I can say that the error lies in >latin.mtx. The encoding expects the glyph for the macron accent to be named >Macronsmall in this context, and latin.mtx never says > \setglyph{Macronsmall} > \cscglyph{macron} > \endsetglyph Adding this to latin.mtx will create a macron accent which is much too low! I have also tried to add the following, which corresponds to what I saw for the other accents (acute, grave etc.): \setglyph{Macronsmall} \cscaccent{macron} \endsetglyph \setglyph{macronsmall} \glyph{Macronsmall}{1000} \endsetglyph This seems to help! Lars, could you, please, confirm that this is a valid fix for fontinst? Walter 19-Oct-1999 9:23:26-GMT,2271;000000000000 Return-Path: <Lars.Hellstrom@math.umu.se> Received: from abel.math.umu.se (abel.math.umu.se [130.239.20.139]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA15101 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 03:23:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [130.239.20.144] (mac144.math.umu.se [130.239.20.144]) by abel.math.umu.se (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id LAA05896; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:20:53 +0200 (CEST) X-Sender: lars@abel.math.umu.se (Unverified) Message-Id: <l03130300b431e6bb0d9d@[130.239.20.144]> In-Reply-To: <380b3565380cb09e@mail.arcor-ip.de> (added by mail.arcor-ip.de) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:23:21 +0200 To: "Walter Schmidt" <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> From: Lars =?iso-8859-1?Q?Hellstr=F6m?= <Lars.Hellstrom@math.umu.se> Subject: Re: bug in pplrc8t Cc: TeX-fonts list <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by csc-sun.math.utah.edu id DAA15102 Walter Schmidt wrote: >On Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:27:01 +0200, Lars Hellström wrote: > >>After some browsing of files, I think I can say that the error lies in >>latin.mtx. The encoding expects the glyph for the macron accent to be named >>Macronsmall in this context, and latin.mtx never says >> \setglyph{Macronsmall} >> \cscglyph{macron} >> \endsetglyph > >Adding this to latin.mtx will create a macron accent >which is much too low! > >I have also tried to add the following, which >corresponds to what I saw for the other accents >(acute, grave etc.): > >\setglyph{Macronsmall} > \cscaccent{macron} >\endsetglyph > >\setglyph{macronsmall} > \glyph{Macronsmall}{1000} >\endsetglyph > >This seems to help! >Lars, could you, please, confirm that this is >a valid fix for fontinst? OK, I should have known better than to only compare with an under-letter-accent. The fix is, as far as I can tell, valid and I indend to fix latin.mtx in the same way myself (unless Ulrik Vieth has already done that---latin.mtx is rather the part of fontinst he manages, you see). It might be unneccessary to set macronsmall (since I can't find anywhere it is used, unlike for example tildesmall), but at the moment it is best to play it safe. Lars Hellström 22-Oct-1999 4:15:43-GMT,3571;000000000000 Return-Path: <Laurent.Siebenmann@math.u-psud.fr> Received: from matups.math.u-psud.fr (matups.matups.fr [192.54.146.4]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21374 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 22:15:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from topodyn.math.u-psud.fr (topodyn.math.u-psud.fr [192.54.146.70]) by matups.math.u-psud.fr (8.9.1a/jtpda-5.3.1) with ESMTP id GAA22295 ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 06:15:35 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from lcs@localhost) by topodyn.math.u-psud.fr (8.9.2/8.9.2) id GAA01324; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 06:15:34 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 06:15:34 +0200 (MET DST) From: Laurent Siebenmann <Laurent.Siebenmann@math.u-psud.fr> Message-Id: <199910220415.GAA01324@topodyn.math.u-psud.fr> To: LCS@topodyn.math.u-psud.fr, malyshev@mx.ihep.su, pdftex@tug.org, sebastian.rahtz@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: BaKoMa fonts Sebastian asked some questions a while back on the pdftex list. LS> Leaving out Malyshev's BaKoMa fonts is not sensible for the > vast majority of users. These fonts are decidedly the most > complete set of Type 1 fonts available in the Computer Modern > style, and they are not yet widely distributed. SR> eh? which distribution does not include them? I suspect that to get the one-and-only complete and up-to-date version of the BaKoMa font collection is the one you get with the shareware BaKoMa TeX. Prove me wrong! The version of the BaKoMa fonts that Sergey and I have permission to distribute is not up-to-date. But the fonts are easier to exploit than the more compact version in BaKoMa TeX. I believe that this (our) BaKoMa font collection is more up-to-date than still other BaKoMa font distributions, but I could be wrong. So, yes, you can go and get a very useful edition of BaKoMa font collection at: ftp://topo.math.u-psud.fr/pub/tex/AcroDVI_alpha One that is usable under just about any OS. With pdftex. With dvipdfm. Etc. LS> You get some > nice sidekick fonts too like the rsfs (script) and the > LamsTeX arrow fonts and the XY fonts. SR> these are not from Basil, surely? They are. Dated 1997. LS> Private use is free. > Publication of PDF files requires a $15 shareware fee to > Malyshev for individuals, and $100 for commercial publishers. SR> per document? per year? once? come on, this is unreal.... Welcome to the strange but very real world of shareware. I like shareware because it gives talented young progammers the moral and physical independence they deserve early, and with a minimum of hassle. The remarkable thing is the degree of product support they manage to provide. As for the exact distribution conditions, always heed Malyshev's own copyright notices. SR> Basil Malyshev explicitly told me earlier this year > that the few BaKoMa fonts needed to fill the gaps > in the Blue Sky/Y&Y collection were complete freely > distributable and useable. Interesting news, even as hearsay. Does it mean that Malyshev has obtained outside financial support? Can you point to written confirmation? Has such a free package been posted by Malyshev? LS> Scientific elecronic publication is 98% CM. SR> If you replace "scientific" with "mathematical academic", > maybe we could agree on 60%? I should indeed have specified "mathematical, academic, and freely available" rather than just "scientific". If you want to work up some hard statistics for us, start with www.emis.de. Cheers Larry Siebenmann 22-Oct-1999 8:27:55-GMT,3367;000000000000 Return-Path: <sebastian.rahtz@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> Received: from oxmail.ox.ac.uk (oxmail1.ox.ac.uk [129.67.1.1]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA26656 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 02:27:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ermine.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.2.13]) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #1) id 11ea3E-0006SN-00; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:27:52 +0100 Received: from spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.15.17]) by ermine.ox.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11ea3E-0002xF-00; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:27:52 +0100 From: Sebastian Rahtz <sebastian.rahtz@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14352.11773.952453.765866@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 10:27:25 +0100 (BST) To: Laurent.Siebenmann@math.u-psud.fr Cc: LCS@topodyn.math.u-psud.fr, malyshev@mx.ihep.su, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: BaKoMa fonts In-Reply-To: <199910220415.GAA01324@topodyn.math.u-psud.fr> References: <199910220415.GAA01324@topodyn.math.u-psud.fr> X-Mailer: VM 6.73 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Laurent Siebenmann writes: > I suspect that to get the one-and-only complete and up-to-date > version of the BaKoMa font collection is the one you get with > the shareware BaKoMa TeX. Prove me wrong! The version of the I might look. To be honest, I do not really have the enthusiasm to track down variants of BaKoMa fonts. It just isn't worth the hassle of trying to find variations and understand licenses. > So, yes, you can go and get a very useful edition of BaKoMa > font collection at: > > ftp://topo.math.u-psud.fr/pub/tex/AcroDVI_alpha OK, have looked at them, and read the license. Looks like I shall have to remove the fonts from TeX Live. > > nice sidekick fonts too like the rsfs (script) and the > > LamsTeX arrow fonts and the XY fonts. > > SR> these are not from Basil, surely? > > They are. Dated 1997. the rsfs I have is from Taco Hoekwater, and the xypic fonts seem to be by Kris and Ross. > > Publication of PDF files requires a $15 shareware fee to > > Malyshev for individuals, and $100 for commercial publishers. > > SR> per document? per year? once? come on, this is unreal.... > > Welcome to the strange but very real world of shareware. I like I know about shareware, thanks. > shareware because it gives talented young progammers the moral > and physical independence they deserve early ^^^^^^^ now you sound like the American constitution > SR> Basil Malyshev explicitly told me earlier this year > > that the few BaKoMa fonts needed to fill the gaps > > in the Blue Sky/Y&Y collection were complete freely > > distributable and useable. > > Interesting news, even as hearsay. Does it mean that Malyshev > has obtained outside financial support? Can you point to > written confirmation? Has such a free package been posted by > Malyshev? I foolishly did NOT keep the email from Basil. So unless he wants to publicly repeat the statement, I propose to withdraw from my position on this. > available" rather than just "scientific". If you want to work up > some hard statistics for us, start with www.emis.de. I am not a statistician, thanks. I'll leave that to you guys sebastian 22-Oct-1999 12:25:02-GMT,2384;000000000000 Return-Path: <Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr> Received: from ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.232.33]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA01152 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 06:25:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.241.5]) by ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA05421; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:24:09 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from bouche@localhost) by mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.7.6/8.6.9) id OAA20442; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:26:33 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:26:33 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199910221226.OAA20442@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> From: Thierry Bouche <Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr> To: Laurent Siebenmann <Laurent.Siebenmann@math.u-psud.fr> Cc: LCS@topodyn.math.u-psud.fr, malyshev@mx.ihep.su, pdftex@tug.org, sebastian.rahtz@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: BaKoMa fonts In-Reply-To: <199910220415.GAA01324@topodyn.math.u-psud.fr> References: <199910220415.GAA01324@topodyn.math.u-psud.fr> X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit » LS> Scientific elecronic publication is 98% CM. » » SR> If you replace "scientific" with "mathematical academic", » > maybe we could agree on 60%? » » I should indeed have specified "mathematical, academic, and freely » available" rather than just "scientific". If you want to work up » some hard statistics for us, start with www.emis.de. I'd say that these elecronic publications are mostly "no fonts", because most of electronic articles i get are simply (la)tex source (xxx preprint server) that i print with the font set i like (plain TeX files i get are printed using Utopia, e.g., because my "plain" TeX format uses them...) Now, it is quite funny how professional publishers _never_ post DVI (typically journal summaries are in HTML, papers in PDF), and academic self-publishers (as EMIS, Annales de l'Institut Fourier...) insist on the DVI format being the smallest, quickest, etc. They're simply blind, not even realizing that figures vanish, that the unix special syntax is useless under other DVI viewers than xdvi, etc. It's plain arrogant amateurism and incompetence. Thierry Bouche, Grenoble. 23-Oct-1999 5:02:31-GMT,768;000000000000 Return-Path: <lcs@math.u-psud.fr> Received: from matups.math.u-psud.fr (matups.matups.fr [192.54.146.4]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA26099 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 23:02:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from (lcs@localhost) by matups.math.u-psud.fr (8.9.1a/jtpda-5.3.1) id HAA29325 for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 07:02:28 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 07:02:28 +0200 (MET DST) From: lcs@math.u-psud.fr (Laurent SIEBENMANN) Message-Id: <199910230502.HAA29325@matups.math.u-psud.fr> To: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: Re: BaKoMa fonts I have answered Thierry Bousche on the pdftex@tug.org list. The subject is "math archive policies". cheers larry siebenmann 25-Oct-1999 4:19:25-GMT,3723;000000000000 Return-Path: <lcs@math.u-psud.fr> Received: from matups.math.u-psud.fr (matups.matups.fr [192.54.146.4]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA11759 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 22:19:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from (lcs@localhost) by matups.math.u-psud.fr (8.9.1a/jtpda-5.3.1) id GAA01985 ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 06:18:08 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 06:18:08 +0200 (MET DST) From: lcs@math.u-psud.fr (Laurent SIEBENMANN) Message-Id: <199910250418.GAA01985@matups.math.u-psud.fr> To: lcs@math.u-psud.fr, lesenko@mx.ihep.su, malyshev@mx.ihep.su, sebastian.rahtz@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: BaKoMa fonts on TeXLive Dear Sebastian, Your TeXLive4 of March 1999, which has enjoyed exceptionally wide circulation by TeX groups, does indeed contain BaKoMa Type 1 versions of CM and AMS fonts going beyond the entirely free (but carefully copyrighted) CMPS and AMSPS collections. Curiously, you seemingly do not provide any copyright notice for this vital fragment of the BaKoMa font collection, nor even the author's name and address. That shows scant respect for Malyshev's rather crucial work. SR> Basil Malyshev explicitly told me earlier this year > that the few BaKoMa fonts needed to fill the gaps > in the Blue Sky/Y&Y collection were complete freely > distributable and useable. The following was cc'd to Malyshev with your assertion. LS> Interesting news, even as hearsay. Does it mean that Malyshev > has obtained outside financial support? Can you point to > written confirmation? Has such a free package been posted by > Malyshev? You answered: SR> I foolishly did NOT keep the email from Basil. So > unless he wants to publicly repeat the statement, I > propose to withdraw from my position on this. Well, so far, he has not, and I have left a couple of weeks for him to intervene. LS> I suspect that to get the one-and-only complete and up-to-date > version of the BaKoMa font collection is the one you get with > the shareware BaKoMa TeX. Prove me wrong! RS> I might look. To be honest, I do not really have the > enthusiasm to track down variants of BaKoMa fonts. It just > isn't worth the hassle of trying to find variations and > understand licenses. That is a shocking statement for someone who edits CDs for a highly responsible organisation like TUG. SR> OK, have looked at them, and read the license. Looks > like I shall have to remove the fonts from TeX Live. QUITE THE CONTRARY, Sebastian! If in fact you accidentally or intentionally violated Basil Malyshev's copyright on your recent TeX-Live 4 --- and that is something that I am sure we can we can ascertain --- then, in the interests of decency in the TeX world, I say you had better at very least offer to include the full BaKoMa on the very next version of TeX Live, along with Malyshev's full copyright and/or shareware notices. Does that sound fair to you Sebastian? The copyright notice I have for the 1998 BaKoMa font package accompanying the distribution of AcroDVI/dvipdf at ftp://topo.math.u-psud.fr/pub/tex/AcroDVI_alpha states explicitly: BM> You may freely distribute unaltered copies of this > software including this notice. Altered copies may not > be distributed. One last question, Sebastian. To what extent is TeXLive a lucrative activity for you? Basil Malyshev certainly needs support in some form to pursue his pioneering TeX work that has been so vital to me and others. Very sincerely, Larry Siebenmann PS. The quotations above (except BM's) come from the pdftex list <pdftex@tug.org>, October 1999. 27-Oct-1999 14:12:56-GMT,1678;000000000000 Return-Path: <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> Received: from mail.arcor-ip.de (mail-ffm-p.arcor-ip.de [145.253.2.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01740 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 08:12:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from nbgdi3-145-253-067-219.arcor-ip.net (145.253.67.219) by mail.arcor-ip.de; 27 Oct 1999 16:12:23 +0200 Message-ID: <381708483817a65b@mail.arcor-ip.de> (added by mail.arcor-ip.de) From: "Walter Schmidt" <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> To: "tex-fonts" <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:11:21 +0200 (MSZ) Reply-To: "Walter Schmidt" <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail/2 PMMail 2.00.1500 for OS/2 Warp 4.00 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: RFC: remove 1-1 kerning from Adobe Palatino? Adobe's Palatino has one very annoying feature: All digits have equal width, but there is a kerning between two adjacent letters "1" defined. As a result, tables do sometimes not align. I think about fixing this with the next release of PSNFSS: The tfm's and vf's distributed in lw35nfss.zip will perhaps longer contain this kern. Do you believe that this is a correct way to tackle the problem? In theory, line and page breaks of existent documents may change; in practice, this is very unlikely to ever happen! I'd like to hear your opinion! TIA Walter -- Walter Schmidt <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> Schornbaumstrasse 2, 91052 Erlangen, Germany pgp key (0xB3F3ACED, 1024 bit, DSS): see <http://wwwkeys.de.pgp.net> key fingerprint: CEE3 0783 8468 4B7F 1054 1543 83AD 20A5 B3F3 ACED 27-Oct-1999 14:39:23-GMT,805;000000000000 Return-Path: <davidc@nag.co.uk> Received: from nag.co.uk (openmath.nag.co.uk [192.156.217.16]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02610 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 08:39:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from davidc@localhost) by nag.co.uk (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) id PAA23876; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 15:35:46 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 15:35:46 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <199910271435.PAA23876@nag.co.uk> From: David Carlisle <davidc@nag.co.uk> To: walter.schmidt@arcormail.de CC: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu In-reply-to: <381708483817a65b@mail.arcor-ip.de> (added by mail.arcor-ip.de) (walter.schmidt@arcormail.de) Subject: Re: RFC: remove 1-1 kerning from Adobe Palatino? References: <381708483817a65b@mail.arcor-ip.de> (added by mail.arcor-ip.de) do it! David 27-Oct-1999 17:37:56-GMT,4791;000000000000 Return-Path: <beebe@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> Received: from suncore.math.utah.edu (suncore0.math.utah.edu [128.110.198.5]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA07751; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:37:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from beebe@localhost) by suncore.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA29536; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:37:55 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:37:55 -0600 (MDT) From: "Nelson H. F. Beebe" <beebe@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> To: "tex-fonts" <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> Cc: beebe@csc-sun.math.utah.edu X-US-Mail: "Center for Scientific Computing, Department of Mathematics, 322 INSCC, University of Utah, 155 S 1400 E RM 233, Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA" X-Telephone: +1 801 581 5254 X-FAX: +1 801 585 1640, +1 801 581 4148 X-URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe Subject: Re: RFC: remove 1-1 kerning from Adobe Palatino? Message-ID: <CMM.0.91.0.941045875.beebe@suncore.math.utah.edu> Walter Schmidt <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> reported to this list on Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:11:21 +0200 (MSZ): >> Adobe's Palatino has one very annoying feature: >> All digits have equal width, but there is a kerning >> between two adjacent letters "1" defined. As a result, >> tables do sometimes not align. I was astonished at the report of such kerns, so I've been busy searches collections of .afm files to see if there are any others that do this. I found such instances in 1990 versions of these Adobe files: Helvetica-Bold.afm NewCenturySchlbk-Italic.afm Helvetica-BoldOblique.afm NewCenturySchlbk-Roman.afm Helvetica-Narrow-Bold.afm Palatino-Bold.afm Helvetica-Narrow-BoldOblique.afm Palatino-BoldItalic.afm Helvetica-Narrow-Oblique.afm Palatino-Italic.afm Helvetica-Narrow.afm Palatino-Roman.afm Helvetica-Oblique.afm Times-Bold.afm Helvetica.afm Times-BoldItalic.afm NewCenturySchlbk-Bold.afm Times-Italic.afm NewCenturySchlbk-BoldItalic.afm Times-Roman.afm However, when I checked 1998 releases of these files (on a new Sun Solaris 2.7, in the directory /usr/openwin/lib/X11/fonts/F3/afm), I found that most had had their digit kerns eliminated. However, these still have kerns on 1-1: NewCenturySchlbk-Bold.afm Palatino-Bold.afm NewCenturySchlbk-BoldItalic.afm Palatino-BoldItalic.afm NewCenturySchlbk-Italic.afm Palatino-Italic.afm NewCenturySchlbk-Roman.afm Palatino-Roman.afm and those files contain "Comment Creation Date:" strings with dates in September-October 1989. I found no such nasty kerns in the Bitstream 500-font CD. However, in the 2843 font Monotype 4.0 CD, I found instances of kerns for all digits (look for these strings at beginning of line): KPX zero KPX one KPX two KPX three KPX four KPX five KPX six KPX seven KPX eight KPX nine I found 710 fonts, that is, 25%, that have such kerns. I won't enumerate them here, but I can provide a list offline to anyone interested. In a collection of 86 fonts embedded in Lexmark printers, I found 16 with such kerns: CenSchBo.afm Helv.afm HelvNa.afm PalBo.afm CenSchBoI.afm HelvBo.afm HelvNaBo.afm PalBoI.afm CenSchI.afm HelvBoI.afm HelvNaBoI.afm PalI.afm CenSchRo.afm HelvI.afm HelvNaI.afm PalRo.afm corresponding to CenturySchlbk, Helvetica, and Palatino families. In the 20 Mathematica fonts from Wolfram Research, I found none. List readers in possession of other large collections of .afm files might wish to make further experiments: I used a UNIX command egrep -l '^KPX +(zero|one|two|three|four|five|six|seven|eight|nine)' \ `find . -name '*.afm' ` to get the names of .afm files with digit kerns. In summary, kerned digits do not appear to be uncommon (note the Monotype results), so their existence needs to be accepted. I too am inclined to suggest that the digit kerning should be dropped when they are accessed via TeX virtual fonts, but others may wish to debate the issue. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 - - Center for Scientific Computing FAX: +1 801 585 1640, +1 801 581 4148 - - University of Utah Internet e-mail: beebe@math.utah.edu - - Department of Mathematics, 322 INSCC beebe@acm.org - - 155 S 1400 E RM 233 beebe@ieee.org - - Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27-Oct-1999 22:16:11-GMT,1636;000000000000 Return-Path: <sebastian.rahtz@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> Received: from oxmail.ox.ac.uk (oxmail1.ox.ac.uk [129.67.1.1]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA16054 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:16:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ermine.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.2.13]) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #1) id 11gbMS-0002AT-00 for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 23:16:04 +0100 Received: from max28.public.ox.ac.uk ([192.76.27.28] helo=ogre ident=rahtz) by ermine.ox.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11gbMR-0007Vt-00 for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 23:16:03 +0100 X-Mailer: 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid (via feedmail 8 Q); VM 6.71 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid From: "Sebastian Rahtz" <sebastian.rahtz@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14359.26725.424860.530072@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:02:29 +0100 (BST) To: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: RFC: remove 1-1 kerning from Adobe Palatino? In-Reply-To: <CMM.0.91.0.941045875.beebe@suncore.math.utah.edu> References: <CMM.0.91.0.941045875.beebe@suncore.math.utah.edu> Nelson H. F. Beebe writes: > > I too am inclined to suggest that the digit kerning should be dropped > when they are accessed via TeX virtual fonts, but others may wish to > debate the issue. > I, on the other hand, would leave well alone. If thats what the metrics say, implement it. Let people choose to disagree on an individual basis. But I do not feel that strongly about it Sebastian 27-Oct-1999 23:03:53-GMT,1093;000000000000 Return-Path: <mackay@june.cs.washington.edu> Received: from june.cs.washington.edu (june.cs.washington.edu [128.95.1.4]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17386 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 17:03:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from mackay@localhost) by june.cs.washington.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/0.3j) id QAA06673; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:02:39 -0700 (envelope-from mackay) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:02:39 -0700 From: Pierre MacKay <mackay@cs.washington.edu> Message-Id: <199910272302.QAA06673@june.cs.washington.edu> To: sebastian.rahtz@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: RFC: remove 1-1 kerning from Adobe Palatino? Does anyone else recall that Tom Rokicki spotted that kern ages ago. His encoding file includes specific instructions for removing all kerning between digits. Email: mackay@cs.washington.edu Pierre A. MacKay Smail: Department of Classics Emeritus Druid for 218 Denny Hall, Box 353110 Unix-flavored TeX University of Washington Seattle, WA 98195 (206) 543-2268 (Message recorder) 27-Oct-1999 23:31:43-GMT,2250;000000000000 Return-Path: <beebe@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> Received: from suncore.math.utah.edu (suncore0.math.utah.edu [128.110.198.5]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA18167; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 17:31:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from beebe@localhost) by suncore.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA02923; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 17:31:42 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 17:31:42 -0600 (MDT) From: "Nelson H. F. Beebe" <beebe@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> To: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Cc: beebe@csc-sun.math.utah.edu X-US-Mail: "Center for Scientific Computing, Department of Mathematics, 322 INSCC, University of Utah, 155 S 1400 E RM 233, Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA" X-Telephone: +1 801 581 5254 X-FAX: +1 801 585 1640, +1 801 581 4148 X-URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe Subject: Re: kerns of digits Message-ID: <CMM.0.91.0.941067102.beebe@suncore.math.utah.edu> Pierre A. MacKay <mackay@cs.washington.edu> asks on Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:56:09 -0600 (MDT): >> Does anyone else recall that Tom Rokicki spotted that >> kern ages ago. His encoding file includes specific >> instructions for removing all kerning between digits. Thanks for the tip, Pierre. In my dvips-5-580/reencode/DC.enc file, dated 21-Aug-1992, I found this: % We blow away kerns to and from spaces (TeX doesn't have a % space) and also remove any kerns from the numbers (although % the only kern pair that mentions a number in Times-Roman.afm % is one one.) Evidence earlier today shows that the comment is not correct about which fonts do this, but Tom certainly had the right idea 7 years ago! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 - - Center for Scientific Computing FAX: +1 801 585 1640, +1 801 581 4148 - - University of Utah Internet e-mail: beebe@math.utah.edu - - Department of Mathematics, 322 INSCC beebe@acm.org - - 155 S 1400 E RM 233 beebe@ieee.org - - Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28-Oct-1999 8:01:51-GMT,2434;000000000000 Return-Path: <mcnbjtb@fs4.in.umist.ac.uk> Received: from ursa.cns.umist.ac.uk (ursa.cns.umist.ac.uk [130.88.210.1]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA29277 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 02:01:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fs4.in.umist.ac.uk ([130.88.121.103]) by ursa.cns.umist.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.92 #2) for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu id 11gkVI-0005Lw-00; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 09:01:48 +0100 Received: from UK-AC-UMIST-IN-FS4/SpoolDir by fs4.in.umist.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); 28 Oct 99 09:01:48 GMT Received: from SpoolDir by UK-AC-UMIST-IN-FS4 (Mercury 1.43); 28 Oct 99 09:01:41 GMT From: "Bernard Treves Brown" <mcnbjtb@fs4.in.umist.ac.uk> Organization: DIAS, UMIST, UK. To: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 09:01:40 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: RFC: remove 1-1 kerning from Adobe Palatino? Reply-to: B.J.Treves.Brown@umist.ac.uk Priority: normal In-reply-to: <CMM.0.91.0.941045875.beebe@suncore.math.utah.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Message-Id: <E11gkVI-0005Lw-00@ursa.cns.umist.ac.uk> > In summary, kerned digits do not appear to be uncommon (note the > Monotype results), so their existence needs to be accepted. > > I too am inclined to suggest that the digit kerning should be dropped > when they are accessed via TeX virtual fonts, but others may wish to > debate the issue. Given that kerned numbers may improve the appearance of text (pace those who feel that lining numerals should never be used in text anyway) might it be better to introduce a letter indicating the presence of non-tabulating numerals along the lines currently used for non-lining (oldstyle) numerals? To reduce the number of unpleasant surprises the default had better be tabulating, as Walter Schmidt proposes. For the future I imagine the LaTeX authors could devise some method of ensuring that tabulating numerals were switched on and off within appropriate envronments and those of us who generally prefer "plain" could adopt similar measures if we chose. Bernard Treves Brown Dr. Bernard J. Treves Brown, Research Associate Department of Instrumentation and Analytical Science, UMIST, P.O. Box 88, Manchester. M60 1QD UK Email: B.J.Treves.Brown@umist.ac.uk Tel: 0161-200 8900 (Outside UK +44 161 200 8900) Fax: 0161-200 4911 (Outside UK +44 161 200 4911) 28-Oct-1999 9:34:35-GMT,1963;000000000000 Return-Path: <Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr> Received: from tibre.ujf-grenoble.fr (tibre.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.238.31]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA01094 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 03:34:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.241.5]) by tibre.ujf-grenoble.fr (Pro-8.9.3/8.9.3/Configured by AD & JE 25/10/1999) with ESMTP id LAA00333 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 11:31:36 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from bouche@localhost) by mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.7.6/8.6.9) id LAA16772; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 11:35:14 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 11:35:14 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199910280935.LAA16772@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> From: Thierry Bouche <Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr> To: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: kerns of digits In-Reply-To: <CMM.0.91.0.941067102.beebe@suncore.math.utah.edu> References: <CMM.0.91.0.941067102.beebe@suncore.math.utah.edu> X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Concernant « Re: kerns of digits », Nelson H. F. Beebe écrit : « » Evidence earlier today shows that the comment is not correct » about which fonts do this, but Tom certainly had the right idea » 7 years ago! Well... That depends whether you're typing text (even maths) or tabular material. Most fonts with kern pairs for figures are OsF (most of them have monowidth kerned numbers, as opposed to the common idea that OsFs are proportionnally spaced). Maybe the right way to do that would be to have a variant identifier for tabular figures in Berry scheme, and install both versions of the font, with a font switch when entering table modes. After all, the year 2011 is not so far, and it would be a shame to typeset it badly in opposition to the typographer's advice. Thierry Bouche, Grenoble. 28-Oct-1999 11:05:14-GMT,1860;000000000000 Return-Path: <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Received: from relay20.smtp.psi.net (relay20.smtp.psi.net [38.8.20.2]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA02842 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 05:05:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [206.119.246.175] (helo=MAURITIUS) by relay20.smtp.psi.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) id 11gnMk-00062y-00; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 07:05:10 -0400 Message-Id: <4.2.1.19991028070032.01b90c48@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.1 Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 07:03:51 -0400 To: "Walter Schmidt" <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de>, "tex-fonts" <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Subject: Re: RFC: remove 1-1 kerning from Adobe Palatino? In-Reply-To: <381708483817a65b@mail.arcor-ip.de> (added by mail.arcor-ip.de) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" <html> <font size=3>At 04:11 PM 1999-10-27 +0200, Walter Schmidt wrote:<br> <blockquote type=cite cite>Adobe's Palatino has one very annoying feature:<br> <br> All digits have equal width, but there is a kerning<br> between two adjacent letters "1" defined.  As a result, <br> tables do sometimes not align.</blockquote><br> Fortunately this seemly fairly rare.  <br> <br> Helvetica Narrow is another font family with "KPX one one" kerning.<br> <br> The Penumbra family has  a whole bunch of kern pairs<br> between various digits and between digits and punctuation.<br> <br> What are you doing with kerning with respect to "space" :-)?<br> <br> Regards, Berthold.<br> </font><br> <div>Berthold K.P. Horn <a href="mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu" EUDORA=AUTOURL>mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu</a> <a href="http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph" EUDORA=AUTOURL>http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph</a></div> </html> 28-Oct-1999 12:47:24-GMT,2058;000000000000 Return-Path: <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> Received: from mail.arcor-ip.de (mail-ffm-p.arcor-ip.de [145.253.2.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA04830 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 06:47:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from nbgdi4-145-253-068-020.arcor-ip.net (145.253.68.20) by mail.arcor-ip.de; 28 Oct 1999 14:46:52 +0200 Message-ID: <381845bd3818f411@mail.arcor-ip.de> (added by mail.arcor-ip.de) From: "Walter Schmidt" <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> To: "tex-fonts@math.utah.edu" <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 14:46:30 +0200 (MSZ) Reply-To: "Walter Schmidt" <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail/2 PMMail 2.00.1500 for OS/2 Warp 4.00 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: kerns of digits On Thu, 28 Oct 1999 11:35:14 +0200 (MET DST), Thierry Bouche wrote: >After all, the year 2011 is not so far, and it would be a shame to >typeset it badly in opposition to the typographer's advice. I have tried it out with Palatino, and my impression is, that you will not notice the absence of kerning, unless you know Adobe Palatino very well or can compare it with the kerned version immediately. Omitting the kerning does not produce a result which is obviously "bad" or "faulty". Maybe it's different with other typeface families. As to the "Base35" fonts, however, only Palatino has got a one-one kern pair. On Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:37:55 -0600 (MDT), Nelson H. F. Beebe wrote: > However, these still have kerns on 1-1: > > NewCenturySchlbk-Bold.afm > NewCenturySchlbk-BoldItalic.afm > NewCenturySchlbk-Italic.afm > NewCenturySchlbk-Roman.afm > >and those files contain "Comment Creation Date:" strings with dates >in September-October 1989. My afm's for NewCentury Schoolbook say "Creation Date: Tue May 28 16:31:51 1991" and they do not contain the one-one ligature. I suppose this is the latest and most up-to-date version. Best wishes Walter 4-Nov-1999 13:04:02-GMT,1100;000000000000 Return-Path: <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> Received: from mail.arcor-ip.de (mail-ffm-p.arcor-ip.de [145.253.2.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA06388 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Thu, 4 Nov 1999 06:04:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from nbgdi4-145-253-068-077.arcor-ip.net (145.253.68.77) by mail.arcor-ip.de; 4 Nov 1999 14:03:28 +0100 Message-ID: <382184213821ba9e@mail.arcor-ip.de> (added by mail.arcor-ip.de) From: "Walter Schmidt" <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> To: "tex-fonts" <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 13:45:00 +0100 (MEZ) Reply-To: "Walter Schmidt" <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail/2 PMMail 2.00.1500 for OS/2 Warp 4.00 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: afm's for Monotype TimesNewRomanPSMT What is the canonical Karl Berry style name for Monotype TimesNewRomanPSMT ? monotype.map says: mntr8a TimesNRMT mnsr8a TimesNewRomanPS These entries obviously refer to other font families (?). Best wishes Walter 4-Nov-1999 22:34:38-GMT,1447;000000000000 Return-Path: <vieth@bluewin.de> Received: from zarquon.dynamic-ip (vieth@stu1ir8-101-118.ras.tesion.net [195.226.101.118]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14607 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Thu, 4 Nov 1999 15:34:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from vieth@localhost) by zarquon.dynamic-ip (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id XAA00303; Thu, 4 Nov 1999 23:36:21 +0100 Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 23:36:21 +0100 Message-Id: <199911042236.XAA00303@zarquon.dynamic-ip> To: walter.schmidt@arcormail.de CC: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu In-reply-to: <382184213821ba9e@mail.arcor-ip.de> (added by mail.arcor-ip.de) (walter.schmidt@arcormail.de) Subject: Re: afm's for Monotype TimesNewRomanPSMT From: Ulrik Vieth <ulrik.vieth@bluewin.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: <382184213821ba9e@mail.arcor-ip.de> (added by mail.arcor-ip.de) > What is the canonical Karl Berry style name for > Monotype TimesNewRomanPSMT ? > monotype.map says: > mntr8a TimesNRMT > mnsr8a TimesNewRomanPS > These entries obviously refer to other font families (?). Not sure about that. I would guess that "TimesNewRomanPS", "TimesNRPS", and "TimesNewRomanPSMT" amight actually refer to the same family (mns), despite the inconsisten names. Similarly "TimesNRMT" and "TimesNewRomanMT" are probably the same (mnt). Sure, that's confusing, but that's life. Cheers, Ulrik. 5-Nov-1999 11:39:11-GMT,1684;000000000000 Return-Path: <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA20620 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Fri, 5 Nov 1999 04:39:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from MAURITIUS (maui [128.52.37.105]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/AI2.13/ai.master.life2:2.6) with ESMTP id GAA11920; Fri, 5 Nov 1999 06:39:08 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.2.1.19991105063747.01bcb800@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.1 Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 06:37:50 -0500 To: "Walter Schmidt" <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de>, "tex-fonts" <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Subject: Re: afm's for Monotype TimesNewRomanPSMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:45 PM 11/4/1999 +0100, Walter Schmidt wrote: >What is the canonical Karl Berry style name for >Monotype TimesNewRomanPSMT ? > >monotype.map says: > > mntr8a TimesNRMT > mnsr8a TimesNewRomanPS > >These entries obviously refer to other font families (?). This is a confusing business, because of cross licensing. TimesNewRomanPS from MonoType is - as far as I recollect - a font that has the same glyph shapes as TimesNRMT, but advance widths adjusted to be equal to those of Times-Roman from Adobe. Then, it appears that MT has offered at various times also the Adobe TimesNewRomanPS under the cross licensing. In this case the only real difference may be in the hinting (and who has to pay licensing fees to whom). Regards, Berthold. Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph 16-Nov-1999 17:31:01-GMT,1328;000000000000 Return-Path: <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> Received: from mail.arcor-ip.de (mail-ffm-p.arcor-ip.de [145.253.2.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24540 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Tue, 16 Nov 1999 10:31:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from muedi3-145-253-073-141.arcor-ip.net (145.253.73.141) by mail.arcor-ip.de; 16 Nov 1999 18:30:18 +0100 Message-ID: <383194ab3831cb95@mail.arcor-ip.de> (added by mail.arcor-ip.de) From: "Walter Schmidt" <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> To: "tex-fonts" <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 18:29:31 +0100 (MEZ) Reply-To: "Walter Schmidt" <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail/2 PMMail 2.00.1500 for OS/2 Warp 4.00 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: unknown symbols Hi, pardon me for asking a question which perhaps seems stupid to you: What is the meaning of the following text companion symbols, i.e., what are they good for? \textleaf \textrecipe \textservicemark \textmho \textinterrobang TIA Walter -- Walter Schmidt <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> Schornbaumstrasse 2, 91052 Erlangen, Germany pgp key (0xB3F3ACED, 1024 bit, DSS): see <http://wwwkeys.de.pgp.net> key fingerprint: CEE3 0783 8468 4B7F 1054 1543 83AD 20A5 B3F3 ACED 16-Nov-1999 17:59:48-GMT,1440;000000000000 Return-Path: <KNAPPEN@ALPHA.NTP.SPRINGER.DE> Received: from alpha.ntp.springer.de (alpha.ntp.springer.de [192.129.24.9]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25423 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Tue, 16 Nov 1999 10:59:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from ALPHA.NTP.SPRINGER.DE by ALPHA.NTP.SPRINGER.DE (PMDF V5.2-32 #35169) id <01JIEZ06TCMC0004SZ@ALPHA.NTP.SPRINGER.DE> for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Tue, 16 Nov 1999 18:59:03 MEZ Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 18:59:02 +0100 (MEZ) From: Joerg Knappen <KNAPPEN@ALPHA.NTP.SPRINGER.DE> Subject: Re: unknown symbols To: walter.schmidt@arcormail.de Cc: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Message-id: <01JIEZ06TDK60004SZ@ALPHA.NTP.SPRINGER.DE> X-VMS-To: IN%"walter.schmidt@arcormail.de" X-VMS-Cc: IN%"tex-fonts@math.utah.edu" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Walter Schnidt frug nach der Bedeutung der folgenden Symbole (aus den tc fonts): \textleaf from Don Knuth genealogical fonts, don't know the intended meaning. I included it to cover Knuth's genealogical font completely \textrecipe a.k.a. prescription take, UNicode U+211E \textservicemark analogous to trademark: a legally protected mark for a service \textmho american engineering slang for 1/Ohm aka Siemens (SI unit) \textinterrobang An interpunctation mark to denote surprise, invented in the 60ies afaik Hoffe geholfen zu haben, J"org Knappen 17-Nov-1999 18:47:41-GMT,3434;000000000000 Return-Path: <root@candle.pha.pa.us> Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@[158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00932 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Wed, 17 Nov 1999 11:47:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from candle.pha.pa.us (root@s5-03.ppp.op.net [209.152.195.67]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA03989 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Wed, 17 Nov 1999 13:46:58 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by candle.pha.pa.us (8.9.0/8.9.0) id NAA22018 for tex-fonts@tug.org; Wed, 17 Nov 1999 13:46:37 -0500 (EST) From: Bruce Momjian <root@candle.pha.pa.us> Message-Id: <199911171846.NAA22018@candle.pha.pa.us> Subject: Problem with ~ and ^ To: tex-fonts@tug.org Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 13:46:37 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL65 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am having some trouble installing my own fonts into LaTeX using psnfss. I have read dvips.dvi and gotten the needed commands. For some reason, the caret (^) and tilde (~) symbols will not print in any of my fonts. I have fonts from three foundries, and they all don't print carets or tildes. I am printing them as \~{} and \^{}. I tested the other characters on my keyboard on top of the number from 1 to 0, and they all print, except caret and tilde. My latex log shows: Missing character: There is no ^^B in font p052003l! for caret symbol, and Missing character: There is no ^^C in font p052003l! for tilde font. I see \textasciitilde and \textasciicircum as I will looking around dejanews, and I am totally shocked that they work, and look fine. Now, I don't understand why, because the stock palatino tfm/vf fonts use \~{} and \^{} directly. Is \~{} accessing a different font I don't have, while I do have \textasciitilde? Seems that \~{} and \textasciitilde are different, and I don't have \~{} in my font. Was some special hand-coding done in the stock font files for these symbols? Seems they weren't in computer modern in a standard way, and that is why there may be a problem with them for me. Are there any other weird characters I should know about? The strange thing is that many other more exotic symbols do print, and I am using many of them. Symbols like the n-dash, and the (c) copyright symbol print fine, so I must be doing something right with these fonts. When using the supplied palatino font tfm/vf files, the ~ and ^ print fine, but the (c) and n-dash don't print in PDF files, meaning the standard palatino tfm/vf files do not match my encoding, while the encodings I created with afm2tfm and vptovf did enable me to print these in PDF files. I am now using: \def\atilde{\raisebox{.5ex}{\em\textasciitilde}\,} \def\acircum{\textasciicircum\,} \renewcommand{\~}{\atilde} \renewcommand{\^}{\acircum} These work fine because I am redefining \~ to a raised \textasciitilde. -- Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle root@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000 + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026 -- Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle root@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000 + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026 18-Nov-1999 4:47:07-GMT,4218;000000000000 Return-Path: <rtietjen@kale.connix.com> Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@[158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA15765 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Wed, 17 Nov 1999 21:47:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from comet.connix.com (root@comet.connix.com [198.69.10.4]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA06083 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Wed, 17 Nov 1999 23:47:03 -0500 Received: from kale (mail@kale.connix.com [204.183.64.34]) by comet.connix.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA28920; Wed, 17 Nov 1999 23:42:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from rtietjen by kale with local (Exim 2.05 #1 (Debian)) id 11oHJl-0005FY-00; Wed, 17 Nov 1999 21:29:01 -0500 To: Bruce Momjian <root@candle.pha.pa.us> Cc: tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: Re: Problem with ~ and ^ References: <199911171846.NAA22018@candle.pha.pa.us> From: Richard Tietjen <rtietjen@kale.connix.com> Date: 17 Nov 1999 21:28:59 -0500 In-Reply-To: Bruce Momjian's message of "Wed, 17 Nov 1999 13:46:37 -0500 (EST)" Message-ID: <87wvrgr0r8.fsf@kale.connix.com> Lines: 80 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.45/Emacs 20.3 Sender: Richard Tietjen <rtietjen@kale.connix.com> Aren't \^ and \~ accent codes in LaTeX? They are supposed to be followed by a character to accent and it's normal that by themselves do nothing. Bruce Momjian <root@candle.pha.pa.us> writes: > I am having some trouble installing my own fonts into LaTeX using > psnfss. I have read dvips.dvi and gotten the needed commands. > > For some reason, the caret (^) and tilde (~) symbols will not print in > any of my fonts. I have fonts from three foundries, and they all don't > print carets or tildes. I am printing them as \~{} and \^{}. > > I tested the other characters on my keyboard on top of the number from 1 > to 0, and they all print, except caret and tilde. > > My latex log shows: > > Missing character: There is no ^^B in font p052003l! > > for caret symbol, and > > Missing character: There is no ^^C in font p052003l! > > for tilde font. > > I see \textasciitilde and \textasciicircum as I will looking around > dejanews, and I am totally shocked that they work, and look fine. Now, > I don't understand why, because the stock palatino tfm/vf fonts use \~{} > and \^{} directly. Is \~{} accessing a different font I don't have, > while I do have \textasciitilde? > > Seems that \~{} and \textasciitilde are different, and I don't have \~{} > in my font. > > Was some special hand-coding done in the stock font files for these > symbols? Seems they weren't in computer modern in a standard way, and > that is why there may be a problem with them for me. Are there any > other weird characters I should know about? > > The strange thing is that many other more exotic symbols do print, and I > am using many of them. Symbols like the n-dash, and the (c) copyright > symbol print fine, so I must be doing something right with these fonts. > > When using the supplied palatino font tfm/vf files, the ~ and ^ print > fine, but the (c) and n-dash don't print in PDF files, meaning the > standard palatino tfm/vf files do not match my encoding, while the > encodings I created with afm2tfm and vptovf did enable me to print these > in PDF files. > > I am now using: > > \def\atilde{\raisebox{.5ex}{\em\textasciitilde}\,} > \def\acircum{\textasciicircum\,} > > \renewcommand{\~}{\atilde} > \renewcommand{\^}{\acircum} > > These work fine because I am redefining \~ to a raised \textasciitilde. > > -- > Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle > root@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000 > + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue > + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026 > > > > -- > Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle > root@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000 > + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue > + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026 > > -- ==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-== Richard Tietjen rtietjen@connix.com "Irony is what they make two-edged swords from." 20-Nov-1999 18:36:23-GMT,1487;000000000000 Return-Path: <georges@tiac.net> Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@[158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05873 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sat, 20 Nov 1999 11:36:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay20.smtp.psi.net (relay20.smtp.psi.net [38.8.20.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA15968 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Sat, 20 Nov 1999 13:36:20 -0500 Received: from [207.60.39.82] (helo=nbgeorge) by relay20.smtp.psi.net with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for tex-fonts@tug.org id 11pFMu-0004wS-00; Sat, 20 Nov 1999 13:36:18 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19991120133621.007da670@pop.tiac.net> X-Sender: georges@pop.tiac.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 13:36:21 -0500 To: tex-fonts@tug.org From: "George A. Stewart" <georges@tiac.net> Subject: TeXLive4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Looking at the TeXLive4 installation, I see that I have many font files that I would like to use from within plain TeX not LaTeX. For example, in /texmf/fonts/tfm/bh/lucida are many tfm files, which I believe are named according to NFSS (new font selection scheme). To take one, for example, hlcbct7t.tfm, I tried to test this by this tex input: \font\fa=hlcbct7t at 24pt %also tried hlhb7t, etc \fa This is a test 012345. \bye But these fonts are working. How to make them work? Please note that kpsewhich finds the files where they are supposed to be. 20-Nov-1999 19:47:29-GMT,2619;000000000000 Return-Path: <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@[158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA07305 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sat, 20 Nov 1999 12:47:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay20.smtp.psi.net (relay20.smtp.psi.net [38.8.20.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA16004 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Sat, 20 Nov 1999 14:47:26 -0500 Received: from [38.32.86.25] (helo=MAURITIUS) by relay20.smtp.psi.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) id 11pGTg-0003Py-00; Sat, 20 Nov 1999 14:47:21 -0500 Message-Id: <4.2.2.19991120144257.01bd5008@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 14:46:06 -0500 To: "George A. Stewart" <georges@tiac.net>, tex-fonts@tug.org From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Subject: Re: TeXLive4 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19991120133621.007da670@pop.tiac.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" <html> <font size=3>At 01:36 PM 1999-11-20 -0500, George A. Stewart wrote:<br> <br> <blockquote type=cite cite>Looking at the TeXLive4 installation, I see that I have many font files<br> that I would like to use from within plain TeX not LaTeX.<br> <br> For example, in /texmf/fonts/tfm/bh/lucida are many tfm files, which I<br> believe are named according to NFSS (new font selection scheme).<br> <br> To take one, for example, hlcbct7t.tfm, I tried to test this by this tex<br> input:<br> <br> <x-tab>        </x-tab>\font\fa=hlcbct7t at 24pt %also tried hlhb7t, etc<br> <x-tab>        </x-tab>\fa This is a test 012345.<br> <x-tab>        </x-tab>\bye<br> <br> But these fonts are working.  How to make them work? Please note that<br> kpsewhich finds the files where they are supposed to be.</font></blockquote><br> There *is* plain TeX (and LaTeX 2.09) support for those fonts, but not <br> in that distribution (and for that you would use the real font names not<br> the KB names). But the real problem is that you don' t have the fonts, <br> only the metrics (while the TeXbook calls TFM files "fonts", they are not).<br> <br> LucidaBright is available from Y&Y <a href="http://www.yandy.com/lucida.htm" eudora="autourl">http://www.yandy.com/lucida.htm</a><br> <br> <br> <br> <div>Berthold K.P. Horn <a href="mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu" EUDORA=AUTOURL>mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu</a> <a href="http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph" EUDORA=AUTOURL>http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph</a></div> <br> </html> 22-Nov-1999 16:21:00-GMT,2449;000000000000 Return-Path: <Lars.Hellstrom@math.umu.se> Received: from abel.math.umu.se (abel.math.umu.se [130.239.20.139]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA25304 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 09:20:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from [130.239.20.144] (mac144.math.umu.se [130.239.20.144]) by abel.math.umu.se (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id RAA19168 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 17:17:58 +0100 (CET) X-Sender: lars@abel.math.umu.se (Unverified) Message-Id: <l03130302b45f0d15a382@[130.239.20.144]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 17:20:55 +0100 To: TeX-fonts list <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> From: Lars =?iso-8859-1?Q?Hellstr=F6m?= <Lars.Hellstrom@math.umu.se> Subject: Metric font transformations with dvips Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by csc-sun.math.utah.edu id JAA25306 My problem is as follows: I've got a PS font and want to tell dvips to scale this font horizontally by some amount, scale it vertically by some (different) amount, and to slant it by some amount. This operation is trivial in postscript, so I should only have to figure out how to put the right code in the right place. The dvips manual isn't much help here since it only gives a few examples of what can be done, but it is at least clear that this should be achieved by putting some suitable piece of PS code between two double quotes on the corresponding line in psfonts.map. So far, everything is fine. Now consider the example that I want to scale horizontally by 1.3 (extend by 30%), scale vertically by 0.8 (compress by 20%), and slant by 0.167. This seems like just the kind of task the postscript operator makefont was made for, so I expect that the right thing to write would be [1.3 0 0.167 0.8 0 0] makefont but this doesn't work. The reason is that it requires the thing on top of the operand stack to be the font dictionary of the font that is to be transformed, and this is very far from the case at the point where dvips inserts PS code from psfonts.map. Instead it seems that what is on the stack are some selected components from the dictionary, but as I can't make sense of the code (in particular, the definition of rf), I have failed to determine exactly which and in exactly which order. I'm not a postscript hacker, though. Can someone perhaps shed some light on this? Lars Hellström 22-Nov-1999 16:40:00-GMT,2872;000000000000 Return-Path: <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA25876 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 09:39:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from MAURITIUS (p96.tc19a.metro.MA.tiac.com [207.60.68.97]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/AI2.13/ai.master.life2:2.6) with ESMTP id LAA12603; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 11:39:54 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.2.2.19991122113714.01bf8900@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 11:39:05 -0500 To: Lars Hellström <Lars.Hellstrom@math.umu.se>, TeX-fonts list <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Subject: Re: Metric font transformations with dvips In-Reply-To: <l03130302b45f0d15a382@[130.239.20.144]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The least confusing way of dealing with anistropic scaling is to keep one axis fixed and to then adjust the overall size isotropically using TeX's font commands. That way you can use the existing DVIPS mechansim for doing the scaling. At 05:20 PM 11/22/1999 +0100, Lars Hellström wrote: >My problem is as follows: I've got a PS font and want to tell dvips to >scale this font horizontally by some amount, scale it vertically by some >(different) amount, and to slant it by some amount. This operation is >trivial in postscript, so I should only have to figure out how to put the >right code in the right place. The dvips manual isn't much help here since >it only gives a few examples of what can be done, but it is at least clear >that this should be achieved by putting some suitable piece of PS code >between two double quotes on the corresponding line in psfonts.map. So far, >everything is fine. > >Now consider the example that I want to scale horizontally by 1.3 (extend >by 30%), scale vertically by 0.8 (compress by 20%), and slant by 0.167. >This seems like just the kind of task the postscript operator makefont was >made for, so I expect that the right thing to write would be > > [1.3 0 0.167 0.8 0 0] makefont > >but this doesn't work. The reason is that it requires the thing on top of >the operand stack to be the font dictionary of the font that is to be >transformed, and this is very far from the case at the point where dvips >inserts PS code from psfonts.map. Instead it seems that what is on the >stack are some selected components from the dictionary, but as I can't make >sense of the code (in particular, the definition of rf), I have failed to >determine exactly which and in exactly which order. I'm not a postscript >hacker, though. Can someone perhaps shed some light on this? > >Lars Hellström > Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph 23-Nov-1999 12:13:44-GMT,1157;000000000000 Return-Path: <lcs@math.u-psud.fr> Received: from matups.math.u-psud.fr (matups.matups.fr [192.54.146.4]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA23180 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 05:13:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from (lcs@localhost) by matups.math.u-psud.fr (8.9.1a/jtpda-5.3.1) id NAA10670 ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 13:13:06 +0100 (MET) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 13:13:06 +0100 (MET) From: lcs@math.u-psud.fr (Laurent SIEBENMANN) Message-Id: <199911231213.NAA10670@matups.math.u-psud.fr> To: Lars.Hellstrom@math.umu.se, bkph@ai.mit.edu, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: Metric font transformations with dvips Lars & Berthold & others BKPH> The least confusing way of dealing with anistropic > scaling is to keep one axis fixed and to then > adjust the overall size isotropically using TeX's > font commands. That way you can use the existing > DVIPS mechansim for doing the scaling. What about font scaling (even isotropic!!) *without* having TeX available. I have wanted that to get reasonable font substitutions in DVIs destined for dvips. Cheers Larry Siebenmann 23-Nov-1999 16:22:00-GMT,4127;000000000000 Return-Path: <Lars.Hellstrom@math.umu.se> Received: from abel.math.umu.se (abel.math.umu.se [130.239.20.139]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA28457 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 09:21:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from [130.239.20.144] (mac144.math.umu.se [130.239.20.144]) by abel.math.umu.se (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id RAA30796; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 17:18:58 +0100 (CET) X-Sender: lars@abel.math.umu.se Message-Id: <l03130300b4605e403ab4@[130.239.20.144]> In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.19991122113714.01bf8900@mail.ai.mit.edu> References: <l03130302b45f0d15a382@[130.239.20.144]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 17:21:57 +0100 To: TeX-fonts list <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu>, "Berthold K.P. Horn" <bkph@ai.mit.edu> From: Lars =?iso-8859-1?Q?Hellstr=F6m?= <Lars.Hellstrom@math.umu.se> Subject: Re: Metric font transformations with dvips Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by csc-sun.math.utah.edu id JAA28458 Berthold wrote: >The least confusing way of dealing with anistropic scaling is >to keep one axis fixed and to then adjust the overall size isotropically >using TeX's font commands. That way you can use the existing DVIPS >mechansim for doing the scaling. That is true, but I was not looking for the least confusing solution, and neither can I use TeX quite like that. The origin of the problem is that I am writing a map file writer for fontinst---when given the font transformations that have been carried out it should be able to produce the corresponding map file entries. As fontinst does have a command \yscalefont, the map file writer must be able to produce entries that have fonts scaled vertically. As dvips does not seem to provide any documented way of scaling vertically (regardless of whether it would also scale horizontally or not) the problem remains. (And so does Laurent's problem, even though it seems to me like it should be possible to solve with virtual fonts.) That said, I must also point out that the idea of achieving vertical scaling using isotropic scaling followed by horizontal scaling is not without merit, since even if it appears to be a very roundabout and illogical method for DVI to PS drivers, it might well be the only possible approach for many DVI drivers with other targets. Since fontinst could bury the isotropic scaling in a virtual font, it would also mean that I could solve the dvips problem without having to resort to a hacky solution based on accessing an undocumented data structure. On the other hand, it might require that at least one major part of fontinst is reconstructed, so it would require some work. Since the characteristics of other DVI drivers are of interest for the continued development, I have a few questions about which metric transformations a driver can do that appear to be of interest. They are primarily directed to the maintainers of the various DVI drivers that exist ("What can YOUR driver do?"), but I'm happy as long as someone answers them. Can your DVI driver (by putting suitable text in its .map or analogous file) be ordered to 1. scale a font vertically by an arbitrary amount? 2. scale a font vertically by some fixed amount? 3. scale a font horizontally by an arbitrary amount? 4. scale a font horizontally by some fixed amount? 5. slant a font by an arbitrary amount? 6. slant a font by some fixed amount? 7. scale a font isotropically by an arbitrary amount? 8. scale a font isotropically by some fixed amount? 9. reencode a font so that glyphs without an encoding position is given one? 10. reencode a font, but only so that glyphs that have an encoding position are permutated? By "some fixed amount" I mean that the driver might have the ability to do this transformation, but only by a fixed amount that the user cannot change---for example, it might have a default scaling factor for "extended" fonts, which one can only choose to use or not to use. (For low resolution output devices, many users wouldn't consider the exact amout that important.) Lars Hellström 24-Nov-1999 4:30:03-GMT,5594;000000000000 Return-Path: <root@candle.pha.pa.us> Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA16648 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 21:30:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from candle.pha.pa.us (root@s5-03.ppp.op.net [209.152.195.67]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA30412 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 23:29:51 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by candle.pha.pa.us (8.9.0/8.9.0) id XAA18970; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 23:27:27 -0500 (EST) From: Bruce Momjian <root@candle.pha.pa.us> Message-Id: <199911240427.XAA18970@candle.pha.pa.us> Subject: Re: Problem with ~ and ^ In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.19991117163730.00a93718@mail.ai.mit.edu> from "Berthold K.P. Horn" at "Nov 17, 1999 04:42:57 pm" To: "Berthold K.P. Horn" <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 23:27:27 -0500 (EST) CC: tex-fonts@tug.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL65 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > At 01:46 PM 11/17/1999 -0500, you wrote: > > >I am having some trouble installing my own fonts into LaTeX using > >psnfss. I have read dvips.dvi and gotten the needed commands. > > > >For some reason, the caret (^) and tilde (~) symbols will not print in > >any of my fonts. I have fonts from three foundries, and they all don't > >print carets or tildes. I am printing them as \~{} and \^{}. > > It's hard to answer your question without knowing what font encoding you > are using. From the error message it seems that some part of what you are > doing is trying to use T1, where circumflex accent and tilde accent are at > char code 2 and 3 respectively. > > Note that asciitilde and asciicircumflex (at 94 and 126 in T1) are different, > larger, lower glyphs than the tilde and circumflex. > > Since you don't seem to say how your TFMs where made and how you are > reencoding the fonts, its hard to say more... Seems I was too brief. I am using the attached script to generate the *.tfm and *.vf from the *.afm files. I am using the Alladin PS fonts and the Bitstream 500 fonts. I even have a script to generate the psnfss *.sty files for the Bitstream 500 fonts. When I was using the metafont *.tfm files, I couldn't get my fonts to print certain ligatures and other characters because I don't have actual Adobe fonts. I created my own *.tfm and *.vf files using this script. I think the problem is that I have to generate my own files to match the actual postscript fonts I am using. Seems my versions of the fonts don't have the needed entries. But I see in my *.afm files: C 94 ; WX 479 ; N asciicircum ; B 51 323 428 698 ; C 195 ; WX 273 ; N circumflex ; B -8 604 281 750 ; C 126 ; WX 479 ; N asciitilde ; B 50 173 429 336 ; C 196 ; WX 273 ; N tilde ; B -14 610 287 737 ; However, \~{} and \^{} print nothing, while \asciitextcircum and \asciitexttilde work fine. Any ideas? My guess is that I am missing something in the attached script, but I have no idea what it could be since all the other characters like copyright symbol and ligatures print fine. Is it wrong not to encode them as 8r? I don't have any need for *.dvi files because I output only PDF and use latex2html for html output. Also, my script has to use the raw *.tfm files for smallcaps in my *.map files because I don't follow the standard font naming convensions, and TeX will not find them. It assumes smallcaps in a virtual font have a certain name extension. However, smallcaps are not related to my problem above. My book is at http://www.postgresql.org/docs/awbook.html. I got most of this information from dvips.dvi. I am familiar with installing fonts in troff, but this is my first font install process for TeX. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- : [ "$#" -eq 0 ] && echo "Usage: $0 [-n] afm ..." 1>&2 && exit 1 trap "rm -fr /tmp/$$ /tmp/$$a" 0 1 2 3 15 #set -x mkdir /tmp/$$ for FILE do # Remove a__ for Bitstream BASE="`filebaseonly $FILE | sed 's/[a-z]___$//g' | sed 's/___$//g'`" BASEFILE="`filebaseonly $FILE`" # non-smallcaps afm2tfm "$FILE" -v /tmp/$$/"$BASE" /tmp/$$/r"$BASE" | tee /tmp/$$a vptovf /tmp/$$/"$BASE".vpl /tmp/$$/"$BASE".vf /tmp/$$/"$BASE".tfm FONT="`head -1 /tmp/$$a | sed 's/^r//g'`" FONTSC="r`echo $FONT | sed 's/ /sc /'`" # do smallcaps afm2tfm "$FILE" -V /tmp/$$/"${BASE}sc" /tmp/$$/"r${BASE}sc" | tee /tmp/$$a vptovf /tmp/$$/"${BASE}sc".vpl /tmp/$$/"${BASE}sc".vf /tmp/$$/"${BASE}sc".tfm cp /tmp/$$/*.tfm /usr/contrib/teTeX/texmf/fonts/tfm/local cp /tmp/$$/*.vf /usr/contrib/teTeX/texmf/fonts/vf/local rm /tmp/$$/* pipe grep -v "^$FONT$" /usr/contrib/teTeX/texmf/fontname/local.map echo "$FONT" >> /usr/contrib/teTeX/texmf/fontname/local.map pipe grep -v "^$FONTSC$" /usr/contrib/teTeX/texmf/fontname/local.map echo "$FONTSC" >> /usr/contrib/teTeX/texmf/fontname/local.map pipe grep -v "^$FONT " /usr/contrib/teTeX/texmf/dvips/misc/psfonts.map # TeXBase1Encoding ReEncodeFont <8r.enc echo "$FONT" "<$BASEFILE.pfb" >>/usr/contrib/teTeX/texmf/dvips/misc/psfonts.map pipe grep -v "^$FONTSC " /usr/contrib/teTeX/texmf/dvips/misc/psfonts.map # TeXBase1Encoding ReEncodeFont <8r.enc echo "$FONTSC" "<$BASEFILE.pfb" >>/usr/contrib/teTeX/texmf/dvips/misc/psfonts.map done texhash -- Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle root@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000 + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026 24-Nov-1999 13:49:22-GMT,1900;000000000000 Return-Path: <Lars.Hellstrom@math.umu.se> Received: from abel.math.umu.se (abel.math.umu.se [130.239.20.139]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA27391 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 06:49:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from [130.239.20.144] (mac144.math.umu.se [130.239.20.144]) by abel.math.umu.se (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id OAA08368; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 14:46:11 +0100 (CET) X-Sender: lars@abel.math.umu.se Message-Id: <l03130301b46197b2277b@[130.239.20.144]> In-Reply-To: <199911240427.XAA18970@candle.pha.pa.us> References: <4.2.2.19991117163730.00a93718@mail.ai.mit.edu> from "Berthold K.P. Horn" at "Nov 17, 1999 04:42:57 pm" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 14:49:10 +0100 To: Bruce Momjian <root@candle.pha.pa.us> From: Lars =?iso-8859-1?Q?Hellstr=F6m?= <Lars.Hellstrom@math.umu.se> Subject: Re: Problem with ~ and ^ Cc: TeX-fonts list <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by csc-sun.math.utah.edu id GAA27393 Bruce, I'm not familiar with using afm2tfm, so I can't tell you what is wrong, but I can tell you that the error messages in your original mail clearly showed that the virtual fonts you were using had no character 2 or 3 (which are the positions for the circumflex and tilde accents respectively in the T1 encoding) in them. You should be able to confirm this by looking in the VPL files. (There should be lines beginning with `(CHARACTER' for many characters, but none for character no. 2 or 3. The character numbers are probably written as O 2 and O 3, or D 2 and D 2, where the letters indicate the radix used.) If you can't find anyone who can help you with afm2tfm then you should probably consider using fontinst instead. It can be found in CTAN directory fonts/utilities/fontinst. Lars Hellström 24-Nov-1999 14:33:11-GMT,1474;000000000000 Return-Path: <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA28308 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 07:33:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from MAURITIUS (maui [128.52.37.105]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/AI2.13/ai.master.life2:2.6) with ESMTP id JAA07165; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 09:32:03 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.2.2.19991124093023.01c68670@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 09:31:17 -0500 To: Lars Hellström <Lars.Hellstrom@math.umu.se>, Bruce Momjian <root@candle.pha.pa.us> From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Subject: Re: Problem with ~ and ^ Cc: TeX-fonts list <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> In-Reply-To: <l03130301b46197b2277b@[130.239.20.144]> References: <199911240427.XAA18970@candle.pha.pa.us> <4.2.2.19991117163730.00a93718@mail.ai.mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 02:49 PM 11/24/1999 +0100, Lars Hellström wrote: >If you can't find anyone who can help you with afm2tfm then you should >probably consider using fontinst instead. It can be found in CTAN directory >fonts/utilities/fontinst. Or use some sensible encoding like LY1 - and ready-made TFMs :-) http://www.yandy.com/usely1.htm Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph 24-Nov-1999 17:31:37-GMT,1815;000000000000 Return-Path: <vvv@vvv.vsu.ru> Received: from tug.org (IDENT:root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02763 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 10:31:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay2.vsu.ru (postfix@mail.vsu.ru [62.76.169.17]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA00494 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 12:30:30 -0500 Received: by relay2.vsu.ru (Postfix, from userid 5) id 7EDE319C4; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 20:29:48 +0300 (MSK) Received: (from vvv@localhost) by vvv.vsu.ru (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA02037; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 20:22:15 +0300 To: tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: possibly "false" pi fonts in bitstrea.map From: Vladimir Volovich <vvv@vvv.vsu.ru> Date: 24 Nov 1999 20:22:14 +0300 Message-ID: <m3d7szdcu1.fsf@vvv.vsu.ru> Lines: 25 User-Agent: Gnus/5.070098 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.98) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, Ulrich Mueller <ulm@kph.uni-mainz.de> reported that the fonts bpi006 in bitstrea.map, bpi006 SnowCapBT-Regular BT 1237 ________ is not really a PI font, but is an "ordinary" text font, so this entry was replaced by bwcr8a SnowCapBT-Regular BT 1237 ________ He also mentions that "there are four fonts in bitstrea.map where I am not sure if it is correct to assign them as pi fonts ("Sonic" is one of them):" bpi005 Formal436BT-Regular BT 1141 frml436n bpi007 SprocketDeluxeBT-Regular BT 1243 ________ bpi008 SprocketBT-Regular BT 1244 ________ bpi009 SonicCutThruBT-Heavy BT 9832 ________ Cold someone who submitted these entries to bitstrea.map, or who owns these fonts please verify whether these are really PI fonts? Best regards, -- Vladimir. 24-Nov-1999 18:01:49-GMT,2794;000000000000 Return-Path: <root@candle.pha.pa.us> Received: from candle.pha.pa.us (root@s5-03.ppp.op.net [209.152.195.67]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA03578 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 11:01:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from root@localhost) by candle.pha.pa.us (8.9.0/8.9.0) id MAA10391; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 12:51:11 -0500 (EST) From: Bruce Momjian <root@candle.pha.pa.us> Message-Id: <199911241751.MAA10391@candle.pha.pa.us> Subject: Re: Problem with ~ and ^ In-Reply-To: <l03130301b46197b2277b@[130.239.20.144]> from "Lars [Hellstr_m]" at "Nov 24, 1999 02:49:10 pm" To: "Lars [Hellstr_m]" <Lars.Hellstrom@math.umu.se> Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 12:51:11 -0500 (EST) CC: TeX-fonts list <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL65 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [Charset iso-8859-1 unsupported, filtering to ASCII...] > Bruce, > > I'm not familiar with using afm2tfm, so I can't tell you what is wrong, but > I can tell you that the error messages in your original mail clearly showed > that the virtual fonts you were using had no character 2 or 3 (which are > the positions for the circumflex and tilde accents respectively in the T1 > encoding) in them. You should be able to confirm this by looking in the VPL > files. (There should be lines beginning with `(CHARACTER' for many > characters, but none for character no. 2 or 3. The character numbers are > probably written as O 2 and O 3, or D 2 and D 2, where the letters indicate > the radix used.) OK, you have gotten me closer. Seeing that the problem was in afm2tfm character encoding, I used tftopl to see the actual encoding of the supplied Adobe tfm files. I then ran some tests and realized that the -T 8r.enc flag to afm2tfm allows me to define characters in the lower numbered slots, which were missing from my earlier attempts. I knew this because when I ran afm2tfm with no -T on the supplied Adobe *.afm files, I saw the same missing entries using tftopl. However, when I added the -T 8r.enc, I now get ligatures like fi and fl in the ^ and ~ positions. I also added the proper <8r.enc line to psfonts.map. Seems I am closer, but still not there yet. I tried -t and -p flags with 8r.enc, but that did not work either, producing ligatures for ~ or blanks. I looked at the current font entries in psfonts.map, and I see them using <8r.enc, so there must be something about that encoding I need, but I can't figure out what it is. -- Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle root@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000 + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026 25-Nov-1999 2:01:00-GMT,2200;000000000000 Return-Path: <root@candle.pha.pa.us> Received: from candle.pha.pa.us (root@s5-03.ppp.op.net [209.152.195.67]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA14905 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 19:00:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from root@localhost) by candle.pha.pa.us (8.9.0/8.9.0) id UAA02161; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 20:59:25 -0500 (EST) From: Bruce Momjian <root@candle.pha.pa.us> Message-Id: <199911250159.UAA02161@candle.pha.pa.us> Subject: Re: Problem with ~ and ^ In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.19991124135334.01c47c60@mail.ai.mit.edu> from "Berthold K.P. Horn" at "Nov 24, 1999 01:56:26 pm" To: "Berthold K.P. Horn" <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 20:59:25 -0500 (EST) CC: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL65 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > At 12:51 PM 11/24/1999 -0500, you wrote: > > > [Charset iso-8859-1 unsupported, filtering to ASCII...] > > What may be confusing is that 8r is a "base" encoding to which the actual font > is reencoded. Typically you use some other encoding at the TeX level, like T1. > The TFM file seen by TeX needs to be set up for *that* encoding, not the base > encoding. > > But like I said, why not use LY1 :-)? > > I cannot understand why people torture themselvse with this complex > T1/TS1/8r stuff and AFM2TFM/fontinst. Weird :-) Success. I installed LY1, and configured both my afm2tfm -T LY1 and my *.sty files to use LY1, and it works for all characters now. I have to use virtual fonts because I need fake smallcaps and I think only virtual fonts can do that. I have no idea why the old system did not work, but it was totally confusing to me why I had 8r in psfonts.map but T1 in my *.fd file and *.sty files. I am glad to leave the mess of T1/TS1/8r for a clean LY1 solution that makes sense. Thanks to everyone. Couldn't have done it without you. -- Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle root@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000 + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026 25-Nov-1999 14:40:18-GMT,1547;000000000000 Return-Path: <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> Received: from mail.arcor-ip.de (mail-ffm-p.arcor-ip.de [145.253.2.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA28827 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 07:40:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from nbgdi4-145-253-068-001.arcor-ip.net (145.253.68.1) by mail.arcor-ip.de; 25 Nov 1999 15:39:40 +0100 Message-ID: <383d4a2c38405c08@mail.arcor-ip.de> (added by mail.arcor-ip.de) From: "Walter Schmidt" <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> To: "tex-fonts" <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 14:53:29 +0100 (MEZ) Reply-To: "Walter Schmidt" <walter.schmidt@arcormail.de> Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail/2 PMMail 2.00.1500 for OS/2 Warp 4.00 In-Reply-To: <199911250159.UAA02161@candle.pha.pa.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Problem with ~ and ^ On Wed, 24 Nov 1999 20:59:25 -0500 (EST), Bruce Momjian wrote: >I am glad to leave the mess of T1/TS1/8r for a clean LY1 >solution that makes sense. Reading this will certainly make Berthold happy :-) The "mess", as you said, was certainly not due to T1/TS1/8r, but due to using the wrong tools. I remember that I succeeded equally well in making (for the first time!) a couple of 8r/T1/TS1 fonts with fontinst, just by following the instructions in the excellent manual. And I have successfully applied the ideas of 8r/T1/TS1 encoding and the fontinst tool for several non-trivial projects since then. just my 2 c ... Walter 29-Nov-1999 6:33:43-GMT,2495;000000000000 Return-Path: <root@candle.pha.pa.us> Received: from candle.pha.pa.us (s5-03.ppp.op.net [209.152.195.67]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA00811 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sun, 28 Nov 1999 23:33:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from root@localhost) by candle.pha.pa.us (8.9.0/8.9.0) id BAA08127; Mon, 29 Nov 1999 01:29:38 -0500 (EST) From: Bruce Momjian <root@candle.pha.pa.us> Message-Id: <199911290629.BAA08127@candle.pha.pa.us> Subject: Re: Problem with ~ and ^ In-Reply-To: From "(env:" "root)" at "Nov 24, 1999 08:59:25 pm" To: bkph@ai.mit.edu Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 01:29:38 -0500 (EST) CC: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL65 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > At 12:51 PM 11/24/1999 -0500, you wrote: > > > > > [Charset iso-8859-1 unsupported, filtering to ASCII...] > > > > What may be confusing is that 8r is a "base" encoding to which the actual font > > is reencoded. Typically you use some other encoding at the TeX level, like T1. > > The TFM file seen by TeX needs to be set up for *that* encoding, not the base > > encoding. > > > > But like I said, why not use LY1 :-)? > > > > I cannot understand why people torture themselvse with this complex > > T1/TS1/8r stuff and AFM2TFM/fontinst. Weird :-) > > Success. > > I installed LY1, and configured both my afm2tfm -T LY1 and my *.sty > files to use LY1, and it works for all characters now. I have to use > virtual fonts because I need fake smallcaps and I think only virtual > fonts can do that. > > I have no idea why the old system did not work, but it was totally > confusing to me why I had 8r in psfonts.map but T1 in my *.fd file and > *.sty files. I am glad to leave the mess of T1/TS1/8r for a clean LY1 > solution that makes sense. > > Thanks to everyone. Couldn't have done it without you. > OK, I have a problem. The documents, when converted to PDF via ghostscript 5.94, have blanks for ligatures like fi, fl, and copyright symbols. I have seen this before, and it usually has to do with some improper encoding. It looks fine when the PS file is viewed. Any ideas? I was really starting to like LY1 too. -- Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle root@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000 + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026 29-Nov-1999 9:05:16-GMT,7057;000000000000 Return-Path: <tinne@goedel.cs.uni-dortmund.de> Received: from waldorf.cs.uni-dortmund.de (waldorf.cs.uni-dortmund.de [129.217.4.42]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA03783 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Mon, 29 Nov 1999 02:05:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from goedel.cs.uni-dortmund.de (goedel.cs.uni-dortmund.de [129.217.28.168]) by waldorf.cs.uni-dortmund.de with ESMTP id KAA05732; Mon, 29 Nov 1999 10:04:41 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199911290904.KAA10080@goedel.cs.uni-dortmund.de> Received: from goedel (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by goedel.cs.uni-dortmund.de id KAA10080; Mon, 29 Nov 1999 10:04:41 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Bruce Momjian <root@candle.pha.pa.us> cc: bkph@ai.mit.edu, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: Problem with ~ and ^ In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 29 Nov 1999 01:29:38 EST." <199911290629.BAA08127@candle.pha.pa.us> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 10:04:41 +0100 From: Karsten Tinnefeld <tinne@goedel.cs.uni-dortmund.de> > OK, I have a problem. The documents, when converted to PDF via > ghostscript 5.94, have blanks for ligatures like fi, fl, and copyright > symbols. I have seen this before, and it usually has to do with some > improper encoding. It looks fine when the PS file is viewed. > > Any ideas? I was really starting to like LY1 too. Yes, this is a "acroread does not implement the pdf standard" problem. It was fixed in gs beta 5.97. At least, it now works for me. See the quoted mail from the gs beta/pdf dev lists for further explanation. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Ghostscript vs. Acrobat Reader quirks [2] Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 09:56:28 -0800 From: "L. Peter Deutsch" <ghost@aladdin.com> Reply-To: ghost@aladdin.com To: pdfdev@lists.pdfzone.com Dear fellow PDF developers, Ghostscript pre-release testers, and others: Thanks very much for your comments regarding the problems of producing Acrobat-compatible PDF output. To my astonishment, an hour after I sent the previous message, I found what appears to be the final key to producing output that Acrobat will read reliably (in addition to the workarounds for the 7 other apparent problems): Ensure that no two fonts in the output file have the same FontName. There is, of course, nothing in the PDF specification that states or even implies that this is a requirement; in fact, the specification may even say at some point that because fonts are always accessed through the resource dictionary mechanism, their FontNames don't matter. Nevertheless, the above made the difference for both AR3 and 4. Font subsetting seems to work OK, as long as no two fonts have the same name even when one ignores the XXXXXX+ prefix. (I.e., one can't have two different subsets of the same font in a single file.) Fortunately, none of the workarounds (including the above) require doing things contrary to the PDF specification: they all involve avoiding things that the specification says are legal (and that work on the Ghostscript and xpdf interpreters). Several of you suggested taking these problems up with Adobe. I've been having friendly discussions with Adobe all along about improving the published PDF specification, and they are taking the issue very seriously. Their practice on specifications seems to be to make major improvements infrequently rather than minor fixes more frequently, so I think it may be a while before we see results. One person suggested defining a "truly portable PDF (subset)" that would work on all implementations, including AR. I agree that this is important. If Adobe is thorough about documenting, in an appendix to a future revision of the PDF specification, the various Acrobat problems that I and others have found and reported to them, I think that will serve the purpose. Adobe is more likely to do this if they hear from more people requesting it. > If you're talking here about bugs that are clearly Adobe's, shouldn't you > "disown" those bugs and go about your release? The best you can do about > Adobe's bugs is report them to Adobe and hope that they get some attention > in the next maintenance upgrade of Acrobat. Isn't that much true? Unfortunately, a Ghostscript that produces PDF output that AR can't read is not a realistically useful alternative to Acrobat Distiller. AR is an important part of the de facto definition of "legal PDF" (as, at this point, are the Ghostscript/G*view/gv and xpdf readers). As Aandi put it, that would amount to "the operation was a success but the patient died". > I may be misreading this but it sounds like the "read errors" involve some > situations that are not likely to be encountered frequently by most > Ghostscript users. Am I wrong here? What would be a "typical" example of a > problem? The file that has been my nemesis through the entire process is a technical manual produced by dvips 5.78. It uses a mix of Computer Modern, standard PostScript (Courier and New Century Schoolbook), and other (embedded Type 1) fonts. Among other things, it defines and uses multiple embedded fonts named "Arial" (and this despite the fact that the name Arial doesn't even appear in the DSC DocumentFonts list), literally dozens of them in the course of the document, often multiple times on a single page, and they aren't all the same. With this file, if Ghostscript doesn't use unique font names, AR drops characters all over the place, and mis-positions them in enough places to notice. This file is a pretty severe example, but it isn't that far out of line. Most of the other problems have to do with either character re-encoding or TrueType font embedding. The latter seems to be characteristic of the AdobePS Windows drivers, so Ghostscript has to handle it. In this area, some of the problems are with the TrueType spec, not the PDF spec, but fortunately (so far) I haven't run into anything I couldn't avoid pretty easily. Thanks again for your supportive comments. PDF is an important open standard, and while Adobe understands that and is willing to put resources into making/keeping it so, I think episodes like this help "keep them honest". BTW, more testers of Ghostscript's ps2pdf facility are always welcome. Please see http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~ghost/aladdin/tester.html for details. But please wait a few days for the 5.97 beta fileset, which will have the above fix, before doing any testing. -- L. Peter Deutsch | Aladdin Enterprises ghost@aladdin.com | http://www.aladdin.com | 203 Santa Margarita Ave. +1-650-322-0103 (9-12 M-F) | fax +1-650-322-1734 | Menlo Park, CA 94025 Open Source is the future of software: http://www.opensource.org -------- Original Message -------- -- Karsten Tinnefeld tinnefeld@ls2.cs.uni-dortmund.de Fachbereich Informatik, Lehrstuhl 2 T +49 231 755-4737 Universität Dortmund, D-44221 Dortmund, Deutschland F +49 231 755-2047 29-Nov-1999 10:29:56-GMT,2414;000000000000 Return-Path: <yannis@fluxus-virus.com> Received: from postfix1.free.fr (postfix@postfix1.free.fr [212.27.32.21]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA05306 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Mon, 29 Nov 1999 03:29:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from 212.27.63.93 (lille1-63-93.dial.proxad.net [212.27.63.93]) by postfix1.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0BB428216; Mon, 29 Nov 1999 11:28:51 +0100 (MET) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 11:29:48 +0100 From: Yannis Haralambous <yannis@fluxus-virus.com> Subject: Re: Problem with ~ and ^ To: Karsten Tinnefeld <tinne@goedel.cs.uni-dortmund.de> Cc: Bruce Momjian <root@candle.pha.pa.us>, bkph@ai.mit.edu, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu X-Priority: 3 In-Reply-To: <199911290904.KAA10080@goedel.cs.uni-dortmund.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; Charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mailsmith 1.1.4 (Bluto) Message-Id: <19991129102851.D0BB428216@postfix1.free.fr> On 29/11/99 at 10:04, tinne@goedel.cs.uni-dortmund.de (Karsten Tinnefeld) wrote: > Ensure that no two fonts in the output file have the same FontName. I had severe problems with PDF files where two fonts had the same /UniqueID I know this sounds stupid and that a "unique ID" has to be _unique_, but I always thought this unique ID is there for commercial reasons (and my fonts are used only internally, so I didn't paid attention to it). Acrobat identified fonts with the same unique ID and the file looked really strange. +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Yannis Haralambous, Ph.D. yannis@fluxus-virus.com | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | 187, rue Nationale fax : +33 (0)3.20.40.28.64 | | 59800 Lille, France tél. : +33 (0)6.07.98.16.26 | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Visit the new trilingual Atelier Fluxus Virus Web site: | | http://www.fluxus-virus.com | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ ...pour distinguer l'extérieur d'un aquarium, mieux vaut n'être pas poisson ...the ball I threw while playing in the park has never reached the ground 29-Nov-1999 12:51:06-GMT,2620;000000000000 Return-Path: <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA07780 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Mon, 29 Nov 1999 05:51:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from MAURITIUS (maui [128.52.37.105]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/AI2.13/ai.master.life:2.11) with ESMTP id HAA20571; Mon, 29 Nov 1999 07:47:18 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.2.2.19991129073633.01bf4fb8@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 07:46:38 -0500 To: Bruce Momjian <root@candle.pha.pa.us> From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Subject: Re: Problem with ~ and ^ Cc: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu In-Reply-To: <199911290629.BAA08127@candle.pha.pa.us> References: <From "(env:" "root)" at "Nov 24, 1999 08:59:25 pm"> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:29 AM 11/29/1999 -0500, Bruce Momjian wrote: >OK, I have a problem. The documents, when converted to PDF via >ghostscript 5.94, have blanks for ligatures like fi, fl, and copyright >symbols. I have seen this before, and it usually has to do with some >improper encoding. It looks fine when the PS file is viewed. > >Any ideas? I was really starting to like LY1 too. This is in Windows? And using fonts like Times-Roman, Helvetica and Courier? Then your problem is the substitution of locally installed TrueType fonts, e.g. TimesNewRoman for the Type 1 Times-Roman. Acrobat cannot reencode TrueType fonts, and Windows ANSI text font encoding does not include fi and fl, so you will lose these. You can get around this, by installing ATM with the "real" fonts Times-Roman, Helvetica and Courier. I always uninstall the standard Windows TrueType fonts to avoid this nonsense (except in Windows NT and Windows 2000 Pro), but then you need the Type 1 fonts as substitutes. Or you can undo the substitution of TimesNewRoman for Times Roman, Arial for Helvetica and Courier New for Courier. Edit the font substitution tables (registry). This "effect" is somewhat dependent on the version of Acrobat Reader you are using and also on the version of Windows you are in. And write Bill Gates about the idiocy of not including f-ligatures in Windows ANSI. While you are at it, write the Apple people about the idiocy of not including ff-ligatures in Mac standard roman. Another way around this is to use fonts that are not substituted for (avoid Times-Roman, Helvetica and Courier). Regards, Berthold. Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph 29-Nov-1999 12:54:35-GMT,2139;000000000000 Return-Path: <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA07866 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Mon, 29 Nov 1999 05:54:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from MAURITIUS (maui [128.52.37.105]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/AI2.13/ai.master.life:2.11) with ESMTP id HAA20738; Mon, 29 Nov 1999 07:50:45 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.2.2.19991129074750.01c228a0@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 07:50:06 -0500 To: Yannis Haralambous <yannis@fluxus-virus.com>, Karsten Tinnefeld <tinne@goedel.cs.uni-dortmund.de> From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Subject: Re: Problem with ~ and ^ Cc: Bruce Momjian <root@candle.pha.pa.us>, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu In-Reply-To: <19991129102851.D0BB428216@postfix1.free.fr> References: <199911290904.KAA10080@goedel.cs.uni-dortmund.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:29 AM 11/29/1999 +0100, Yannis Haralambous wrote: >On 29/11/99 at 10:04, tinne@goedel.cs.uni-dortmund.de (Karsten Tinnefeld) wrote: > > > Ensure that no two fonts in the output file have the same FontName. > >I had severe problems with PDF files where two fonts had the same /UniqueID >I know this sounds stupid and that a "unique ID" has to be _unique_, but >I always thought this unique ID is there for commercial reasons (and my fonts >are used only internally, so I didn't paid attention to it). Acrobat identified >fonts with the same unique ID and the file looked really strange. I am very surprised by this, since ATM, for example, completely ignores the UniqueID. PS printers use it to manage their glyph cache, and can give very strange results when bogus UniqueIDs are used. As far as I know, both ATM and Acrobat manage their caches based on PS FontNames. Which is why output from DVIPS is a problem, since it uses the original PS FontName with modified fonts (e.g. subsetted fonts). Regards, Berthold. Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph 29-Nov-1999 13:57:56-GMT,897;000000000000 Return-Path: <lcs@math.u-psud.fr> Received: from matups.math.u-psud.fr (matups.matups.fr [192.54.146.4]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA09088 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Mon, 29 Nov 1999 06:57:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from (lcs@localhost) by matups.math.u-psud.fr (8.9.1a/jtpda-5.3.1) id OAA09085 for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Mon, 29 Nov 1999 14:57:43 +0100 (MET) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 14:57:43 +0100 (MET) From: lcs@math.u-psud.fr (Laurent SIEBENMANN) Message-Id: <199911291357.OAA09085@matups.math.u-psud.fr> To: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: Viewer competence Which DVI viewers do a good job of handling all of --- pk fonts --- PS Type 1 fonts --- PS Type 3 fonts --- TrueType fonts --- virtual fonts based on all the above (And if you feel exuberant tell us just how good is the job they do!) Cheers Larry Siebenmann 29-Nov-1999 20:56:53-GMT,1929;000000000000 Return-Path: <root@candle.pha.pa.us> Received: from candle.pha.pa.us (s5-03.ppp.op.net [209.152.195.67]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA20614 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Mon, 29 Nov 1999 13:56:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from root@localhost) by candle.pha.pa.us (8.9.0/8.9.0) id PAA04656; Mon, 29 Nov 1999 15:51:05 -0500 (EST) From: Bruce Momjian <root@candle.pha.pa.us> Message-Id: <199911292051.PAA04656@candle.pha.pa.us> Subject: Re: Problem with ~ and ^ In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.19991129073633.01bf4fb8@mail.ai.mit.edu> from "Berthold K.P. Horn" at "Nov 29, 1999 07:46:38 am" To: "Berthold K.P. Horn" <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 15:51:05 -0500 (EST) CC: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL65 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > At 01:29 AM 11/29/1999 -0500, Bruce Momjian wrote: > > >OK, I have a problem. The documents, when converted to PDF via > >ghostscript 5.94, have blanks for ligatures like fi, fl, and copyright > >symbols. I have seen this before, and it usually has to do with some > >improper encoding. It looks fine when the PS file is viewed. > > > >Any ideas? I was really starting to like LY1 too. > > This is in Windows? And using fonts like Times-Roman, Helvetica > and Courier? Then your problem is the substitution of locally > installed TrueType fonts, e.g. TimesNewRoman for the Type 1 > Times-Roman. Acrobat cannot reencode TrueType fonts, and > Windows ANSI text font encoding does not include fi and fl, so > you will lose these. No, sorry, I should have mentioned I am using BSD/OS Unix. -- Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle root@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000 + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026 29-Nov-1999 20:57:09-GMT,2425;000000000000 Return-Path: <root@candle.pha.pa.us> Received: from candle.pha.pa.us (s5-03.ppp.op.net [209.152.195.67]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA20619 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Mon, 29 Nov 1999 13:56:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from root@localhost) by candle.pha.pa.us (8.9.0/8.9.0) id PAA03522; Mon, 29 Nov 1999 15:50:06 -0500 (EST) From: Bruce Momjian <root@candle.pha.pa.us> Message-Id: <199911292050.PAA03522@candle.pha.pa.us> Subject: Re: Problem with ~ and ^ In-Reply-To: <199911290904.KAA10080@goedel.cs.uni-dortmund.de> from Karsten Tinnefeld at "Nov 29, 1999 10:04:41 am" To: Karsten Tinnefeld <tinne@goedel.cs.uni-dortmund.de> Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 15:50:05 -0500 (EST) CC: bkph@ai.mit.edu, tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL65 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [Charset iso-8859-1 unsupported, filtering to ASCII...] > > > OK, I have a problem. The documents, when converted to PDF via > > ghostscript 5.94, have blanks for ligatures like fi, fl, and copyright > > symbols. I have seen this before, and it usually has to do with some > > improper encoding. It looks fine when the PS file is viewed. > > > > Any ideas? I was really starting to like LY1 too. > > Yes, this is a "acroread does not implement the pdf standard" problem. > It was fixed in gs beta 5.97. At least, it now works for me. > > See the quoted mail from the gs beta/pdf dev > lists for further explanation. Many thanks to this list for the upgrade fix. I have upgraded to 5.97, released November 22, and it works great. Good thing I did not come upon this problem a month ago or there wouldn't have been a fix. Seems I am on the cutting edge by producing PDF files using latex and non-standard fonts with ghostscript. I know the older ghostscript only did curved pdf fonts for the standard Adobe 35 fonts. I am glad to see Alladin is on top of the problem, and that Adobe is addressing the issues. I have spent so much time trying to get this working, rather than writing the book. Looks like I can get back to book writing now. Thanks. -- Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle root@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000 + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026 1-Dec-1999 11:17:07-GMT,2017;000000000000 Return-Path: <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA14083 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 04:17:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from MAURITIUS (maui [128.52.37.105]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/AI2.13/ai.master.life:2.11) with ESMTP id GAA25099; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 06:16:36 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.2.2.19991129121742.01c21e88@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 12:23:48 -0500 To: lcs@math.u-psud.fr (Laurent SIEBENMANN), tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Subject: Re: Viewer competence In-Reply-To: <199911291357.OAA09085@matups.math.u-psud.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:57 PM 11/29/1999 +0100, Laurent SIEBENMANN wrote: >Which DVI viewers do a good job of handling >all of > > --- pk fonts > --- PS Type 1 fonts > --- PS Type 3 fonts > --- TrueType fonts > --- virtual fonts based on all the above Well, what is the definition of "good job"? As for Type 1, any viewer using Adobe Type Manager (ATM) will have good rasterization, and any not using ATM will not. As for TrueType, any using the rasterizer in Windows or the one in the Mac OS will do as good a job as the font allows. Which, for fonts other than the core fonts from MS, Apple, and some MonoType fonts, is not very much. Type 3 fonts are not likely to be much good on screen, because the PS "fill" operator makes things too fat by 1/2 pixel all the way around and because Type 3 fonts do not have provision for hinting (or, put another way, because they are not Type 1 :-) 1/2 pixel is not such a big deal on high res printers, but is very significant on screen (at 72, 96 or 120 dpi). PK fonts restrict you to fixed magnification, so aren't very general purpose... Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph 1-Dec-1999 13:54:35-GMT,1411;000000000000 Return-Path: <Lars.Hellstrom@math.umu.se> Received: from abel.math.umu.se (abel.math.umu.se [130.239.20.139]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA16982 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 06:54:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from [130.239.20.144] (mac144.math.umu.se [130.239.20.144]) by abel.math.umu.se (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id OAA23776 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 14:51:26 +0100 (CET) X-Sender: lars@abel.math.umu.se Message-Id: <l03130300b46ad5ecc9d0@[130.239.20.144]> In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.19991129121742.01c21e88@mail.ai.mit.edu> References: <199911291357.OAA09085@matups.math.u-psud.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 14:54:33 +0100 To: TeX-fonts list <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> From: Lars =?iso-8859-1?Q?Hellstr=F6m?= <Lars.Hellstrom@math.umu.se> Subject: Re: Viewer competence Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by csc-sun.math.utah.edu id GAA16983 Berthold K.P. Horn wrote: >PK fonts restrict you to fixed magnification, so aren't very >general purpose... That is _very_ true for files you intend to make publically available (in particular PS and PDF), but it is usually not the case for mere DVI viewing, since most systems these days have automatic generation of PKs if one at the right resolution isn't available. Lars Hellström 1-Dec-1999 18:03:30-GMT,3739;000000000000 Return-Path: <Lars.Hellstrom@math.umu.se> Received: from abel.math.umu.se (abel.math.umu.se [130.239.20.139]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23550 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 11:03:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from [130.239.20.144] (mac144.math.umu.se [130.239.20.144]) by abel.math.umu.se (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id TAA26171 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 19:00:20 +0100 (CET) X-Sender: lars@abel.math.umu.se (Unverified) Message-Id: <l03130301b46ad94d94f6@[130.239.20.144]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 19:03:26 +0100 To: TeX-fonts list <tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu> From: Lars =?iso-8859-1?Q?Hellstr=F6m?= <Lars.Hellstrom@math.umu.se> Subject: Driver and viewer competence Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by csc-sun.math.utah.edu id LAA23551 I asked the following questions last week, but perhaps people ignored the mail since it had the subject "Metric font transformations with dvips"? Anyway, I still want them answered and Laurent's recent viewer angle is most relevant, so I have extended the questions to viewers as well. Question: Which of the following font transformations can "your" driver/viewer be told to do, or if you prefer that angle, for each of the following transformations list the drivers or viewers you know can perform that transformation: 1. Isotropic scaling. 2. Horizontal scaling. 3. Vertical scaling. 4. Slanting. 5. Reencoding. Whom these questions are directed to: Primarily the people who write drivers and viewers, since they are the ones who should have the best knowledge about their software. But since no such person answered the last time, and if you happen to know the answer for your favourite DVI driver/viewer, then I suspect there is no point in waiting for the developer to answer these questions instead. (After all, the developer might be too busy improving the driver. :-) Some other remarks: 1. Isotropic scaling can be specified in the DVI file itself or by a virtual font, but that is not what I'm asking for here. I rather mean "Can I put something in the psfonts.map or corresponding file to get this effect?" 1-4. Some drivers/viewers can do this by arbitrary amounts, whereas others (especially those that rely on the GUI for rendering) can only do so by some fixed amount. I count both variants as "can do", but please include some note specifying the restrictions. 5. Reencoding seems to exist in two different flavours: slots to glyphs (like a postscript encoding) and slots to slots (which means you cannot access glyphs in the font that didn't have an encoding position before reencoding). Specify which one the driver/viewer has. It would be really nice of you if you would answer this. I'm trying to establish what is the "normal competence" for a DVI driver and viewer when it comes to font transformations. Lars Hellström PS. I know it's hard to answer a question when you don't know what the answer is supposed to look like, so here's the answer for the DVI viewer in OzTeX: Isotropic: No. Horizontal: Yes. Vertical: No. Slanting: Yes. Reencoding: Yes. Horizontal scaling and slanting are only by fixed amounts (one condensing, one extending, and one slanting), usually not all available for all variants of the font, and may be "faked" by real fonts if available. [I.e., you may get italic where you had expected slanted, since you are really asking Quickdraw for italic, which it will fake by slanting the upright if there is no proper italic. This is not part of the answer, it's just an explanation.] Only slots to slots reencoding is available. Now that's not so hard, is it? 2-Dec-1999 0:45:26-GMT,3032;000000000000 Return-Path: <rebecca@astrid.u-net.com> Received: from mserv1a.u-net.net (mserv1a.u-net.net [195.102.240.34]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA04108 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 17:45:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from p20.nas4.is3.u-net.net ([195.102.197.148]) by mserv1a.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #63) id 11tKOd-0005E2-00 for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 00:46:57 +0000 X-Sender: rebecca-astrid@mail.u-net.com Message-Id: <l03130301b46ad1498c79@[195.102.197.31]> In-Reply-To: <199911291357.OAA09085@matups.math.u-psud.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 13:32:25 +0000 To: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu From: Rowland <rebecca@astrid.u-net.com> Subject: Re: Viewer competence At 1:57 pm +0000 29/11/99, Laurent SIEBENMANN wrote: >Which DVI viewers do a good job of handling >all of > > --- pk fonts > --- PS Type 1 fonts > --- PS Type 3 fonts > --- TrueType fonts > --- virtual fonts based on all the above > >(And if you feel exuberant tell us >just how good is the job they do!) It depends what you mean by `good'... OzTeX I can tell you about: it can handle any fount format that the MacOS can handle, as well as PKs. Truetype founts are rendered by the MacOS's internal Truetype rendering engine; PS Type 1 founts can be rendered by ATM (which is now available for free from Adobe so no worries there). Dunno about PS Type 3 founts; I think that OzTeX can handle them but can only display MacOS screen bitmaps on screen, which means the results will look pretty ropey at arbitrary magnifications. VFs based on anything work fine. (OzTeX doesn't come with tools to extract metric information from `foreign' founts, so unless you can get afms for any given `foreign' fount, setting (La)TeX up to use such founts isn't practical with OzTeX alone) OzTeX does a pretty good job of dithering PKs if you ask me; I tend to prefer its dithered PKs to ATM smoothed PS Type 1s on screen when it comes to the CM family. I seem to be in a bit of a minority on this, though. The screen display of Truetype founts is whatever the MacOS version you have gives you: current versions of the MacOS (I gather) smooth using greyscale similarly to ATM working on PS Type 1 founts; System 7.6.1 (and below - what I use) certainly don't. If you're using OzTeX under System 6.0.8 or below (and yes, some people do), you need to add the Truetype extension to use Truetype founts, and you also need to acquire an ancient version of ATM if you want nicely rendered PS Type 1 founts on screen. One drawback of OzTeX's dvi viewer (and its QuickDraw printing engine) is that it can't do proper re-encoding; it can re-map glyphs from one numbered slot to another, but if a glyph doesn't exist in a fount's default encoding, OzTeX doesn't allow you to use it. (OzTeX does come with dvips, so if you're using that for PS output you *can* have proper re-encoding; not that helps you for screen display directly, of course). Rowland. 2-Dec-1999 0:45:33-GMT,2918;000000000000 Return-Path: <rebecca@astrid.u-net.com> Received: from mserv1a.u-net.net (mserv1a.u-net.net [195.102.240.34]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA04114 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 17:45:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from p20.nas4.is3.u-net.net ([195.102.197.148]) by mserv1a.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #63) id 11tKOm-0005E2-00 for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 00:47:05 +0000 X-Sender: rebecca-astrid@mail.u-net.com Message-Id: <l03130302b46ad403307d@[195.102.197.31]> In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.19991129121742.01c21e88@mail.ai.mit.edu> References: <199911291357.OAA09085@matups.math.u-psud.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 13:42:17 +0000 To: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu From: Rowland <rebecca@astrid.u-net.com> Subject: Re: Viewer competence At 5:23 pm +0000 29/11/99, Berthold K.P. Horn wrote: >At 02:57 PM 11/29/1999 +0100, Laurent SIEBENMANN wrote: [snip] >As for Type 1, any viewer using Adobe Type Manager (ATM) >will have good rasterization, and any not using ATM will not. Not necessarily; MacOS screen bitmaps can be made available in many different sizes, and can get round this problem. >As for TrueType, any using the rasterizer in Windows or the >one in the Mac OS will do as good a job as the font allows. >Which, for fonts other than the core fonts from MS, Apple, >and some MonoType fonts, is not very much. This is, I'm afraid, utter hooey. I have Truetype founts which, in my view, print on my printer with higher quality than equivalent PS Type 1 founts. Take, for example, the CM founts in the BaKoMa TT and the BSR/Y&Y/AMS PS Type 1 versions: when printed on my HP DW 520, the BaKoMa TT founts look very much closer to Knuth's intention (as seen printed in the TeXbook and his other publications) than the ATM rendered BSR/Y&Y/AMS PS Type 1 versions. These PS Type 1 founts are rendered very badly at some sizes - an `Fr' combination in cmr has the glyphs visibly touching at some sizes, for example. There are other examples of poor quality that I could give, which the BaKoMa TT founts do not display. (The Truetype rendering being done by the TT engine built into MacOS 7.6.1) (of course Berthold disagrees with me, but that's because he's got a commercial connection with a firm that makes money selling PS Type 1 founts and wants everyone to use ATM and buy them... Me? I'm just a fussy LaTeX user who cares about getting the best practical output quality and not a lot else) I've got many shareware founts in TT and PS Type 1 versions and in most cases I can see very little difference in output when printed as described above. In some cases, the TT version is superior to the PS Type 1 version, but there's not much to choose between them most of the time. [snip] >PK fonts restrict you to fixed magnification, so aren't very >general purpose... Eh? Rowland. 2-Dec-1999 20:36:10-GMT,1798;000000000000 Return-Path: <sx0005@sx2.hrz.uni-dortmund.de> Received: from nx5.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE (nx5.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE [129.217.131.21]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00432 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 13:36:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from sx2.hrz.uni-dortmund.de by nx5.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE via smtp-local with ESMTP; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 21:35:35 +0100 Received: from rigel.univie.ac.at (dial-143160.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE [129.217.143.160]) by sx2.hrz.uni-dortmund.de (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA28582; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 21:35:28 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (sx0005@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rigel.univie.ac.at (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA07156; Thu, 2 Dec 1999 18:29:49 GMT To: lcs@math.u-psud.fr Cc: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: Viewer competence From: Werner LEMBERG <sx0005@sx2.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE> In-Reply-To: <199911291357.OAA09085@matups.math.u-psud.fr> References: <199911291357.OAA09085@matups.math.u-psud.fr> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.94 on Emacs 20.4 / Mule 4.0 (HANANOEN) Reply-To: Werner LEMBERG <wl@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19991202182948T.sx0005@sx2.hrz.uni-dortmund.de> Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 18:29:48 GMT X-Dispatcher: imput version 990905(IM130) Lines: 20 > Which DVI viewers do a good job of handling > all of > > --- pk fonts > --- PS Type 1 fonts > --- PS Type 3 fonts > --- TrueType fonts > --- virtual fonts based on all the above > > (And if you feel exuberant tell us > just how good is the job they do!) A nice candidate would be Kakugawa's VFlib project. Unfortunately, I have not enough time currently to follow the development. http://www.se.hiroshima-u.ac.jp/~kakugawa/VFlib Werner 28-Dec-1999 15:03:22-GMT,846;000000000000 Return-Path: <nox13k@optonline.net> Received: from s1.nassau.cv.net (s1.optonline.net [167.206.112.6]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA22816 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Tue, 28 Dec 1999 08:03:21 -0700 (MST) From: nox13k@optonline.net Received: from cockroach (d217-19.soldny.optonline.net [24.188.217.19]) by s1.nassau.cv.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA10413 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Tue, 28 Dec 1999 10:03:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from [deleted] by [deleted] with local id 122y9l-00004D-00; Tue, 28 Dec 1999 10:03:25 -0500 Subject: su To: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 10:03:25 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL65 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <E122y9l-00004D-00@cockroach> subscribe 30-Dec-1999 22:26:09-GMT,1862;000000000000 Return-Path: <nox13k@optonline.net> Received: from s1.nassau.cv.net (s1.optonline.net [167.206.112.6]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01222 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 15:26:04 -0700 (MST) From: nox13k@optonline.net Received: from cockroach (d217-19.soldny.optonline.net [24.188.217.19]) by s1.nassau.cv.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA00810 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 17:25:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from [deleted] by [deleted] with local id 123o1E-0000M1-00; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 17:26:04 -0500 Subject: Installing 2,000 PS fonts. To: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 17:26:04 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL65 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <E123o1E-0000M1-00@cockroach> Hello. I have just a bit over 2,000 PostScript Type 1 fonts, which I bought as a part of Adobe FontFolio package... Anyway, now I have to somehow get these fonts to work in LaTeX. Judging by the documentation that I came across, I have to paths before me: - using vfinst or - something to do with LY1 encoding. Now, from what I understand, using the LY1 method would hinder the "expert" fonts and ligatures that I have. Is that true? If it is, it's unacceptable, as I intent to use all font variants that I have in my possession. As far as the vfinst method goes, I think that that's the one I'll stick to, as I can use all of font's variants and etc. However, there is a problem -- it seems that I have to rename 2000+ fonts that I have in ATM-style filenames (the form they were distributed in). Well, that seems like a lot of work. Is there a script that would do that automatically? Thank you, Nikita. P.s. Happy New "One-Year-Till-New-Millennium" Year. 30-Dec-1999 22:53:19-GMT,2298;000000000000 Return-Path: <sebastian.rahtz@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> Received: from oxmail.ox.ac.uk (oxmail1.ox.ac.uk [129.67.1.1]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01795 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 15:53:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from ermine.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.2.13]) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #1) id 123oRU-0000oL-00; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 22:53:12 +0000 Received: from max43.public.ox.ac.uk ([192.76.27.43] helo=ogre ident=rahtz) by ermine.ox.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 123oRT-0008Ri-00; Thu, 30 Dec 1999 22:53:11 +0000 X-Mailer: 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid (via feedmail 8 I); VM 6.71 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid From: "Sebastian Rahtz" <sebastian.rahtz@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14443.56776.304560.988855@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 22:33:44 +0000 (GMT) To: nox13k@optonline.net Cc: tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: Installing 2,000 PS fonts. In-Reply-To: <E123o1E-0000M1-00@cockroach> References: <E123o1E-0000M1-00@cockroach> nox13k@optonline.net writes: > Anyway, now I have to somehow get these fonts to work > in LaTeX. Judging by the documentation that I came > across, I have to paths before me: > - using vfinst > or > - something to do with LY1 encoding. or rolling your own stuff, using fontinst. > Now, from what I understand, using the LY1 method > would hinder the "expert" fonts and ligatures that I > have. Is that true? If it is, it's unacceptable, as > I intent to use all font variants that I have in my > possession. you can do anything, using any of the encodings, if you know what you are doing. there are many ways to skin a cat. its very hard to advise which is best, because the answer is usually "whatever works for you". it also depends on whether this work is for you, on your platform, full stop; or whether you plan to share it with others, and work with different drivers etc etc. > variants and etc. However, there is a problem -- it > seems that I have to rename 2000+ fonts that I have > in ATM-style filenames (the form they were you don't have to rename fonts if you use fontinst directly. sebastian 31-Dec-1999 15:26:54-GMT,702;000000000000 Return-Path: <te@tug.org> Received: from tug.org (IDENT:te@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA19133 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Fri, 31 Dec 1999 08:26:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from te@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA05197 for tex-fonts; Fri, 31 Dec 1999 10:26:52 -0500 Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 10:26:52 -0500 From: Thomas Esser <te@tug.org> Message-Id: <199912311526.KAA05197@tug.org> To: tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: zpc33bc vs. zpcp33bc in adobe.map There have been two assignments for Copperplate-ThirtyThreeBC in adobe.map. I just have changed zpc33bc (in the 900 section) into zpcp33bc. Hope, that this was the right choice. Thomas