Archive-Date: Wed, 02 Nov 1994 00:43:14 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: cnas30@ccsun.strath.ac.uk (E. St. John-Olcayto) Subject: OOOPS! (was: cweb, LaTeX) Date: 1 Nov 1994 15:14:55 GMT Message-ID: <395m1f$q7c@rockall.cc.strath.ac.uk> Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, cnas30@ccsun.strath.ac.uk To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU I've got LaTeX working with Cweb now - the problem was all my fault really; I put the cweb.sty in /usr/local/lib/tex/sty and I forgot to add that to my TEXINPUTS path! Sorry to all LPers out there who helped me out! Thanks again. --- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ | Ender St. John-Olcayto | "The concept of a | | Industrial Control Centre | fuzzy state needs | | Department of Electronic and Electrical Engineering | to be clarified" | | University of Strathclyde | | | Scotland | Fuzzy Sets and | | Tel.:+44 41 552 4400 x2666 | Systems | | Fax.:+44 41 553 1232 | | | | Dubois and Prade | | Email : cnas30@ccsun.strath.ac.uk (preferred) | | | or : sender@icu.strath.ac.uk | | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 02 Nov 1994 16:58:13 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu Subject: Re: aut OOP aut LitProg? Message-ID: <38lj1u$noh@unidhp.uni-c.dk> From: iggjacob@sgi04 (Jacob Nielsen (c898594)) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, iggjacob@SGI04 Date: 26 Oct 1994 12:45:50 GMT To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU Giovanni MenoZero Pensa (pensa@c700-2.sm.dsi.unimi.it) wrote: : Well, I have a question... : I program in C++ and I use CWEB. No REAL problems. But... : I'm not sure if LitProg is very useful with OOP. : I think (or just feel) that some features were useful year ago, : with a standard Pascal or a bare C. : (Ops... will the great DEK kill me for a sentence like this?) I agree that with the small functions/methods normally associated with OOP cannot take benefit from inlining of scraps, but the ability to write the code and the explanation close to each other is still very usefull (C++ is not that expressive :-) Also the explanation of the grand scheme of things is better done using a typesetting language or system than writing comments in a code file (I know that my comments in code files are in general very small and inadequate.) There is no doubt that PASCAL, C etc. benefits more from literate programming than the newer programming languages, but the need for literate programming has not disappeared. : LitProg can help with global data? : A C++ prog *shouldn't* have global data. Ah, but they do sometimes :-) IMHO, global data are evil in any language. : With LitProg you can declare your vars were you want? : Also with C++. : (the problem is that with CWEB's philosophy, the wars are moved : at the beginning, sigh) The joy of CWEB. Anyway, why is that a problem --- you use *short* and clear scraps, no? : (etc.) : You know, I'm not versus WEB. Really. I'm just saying that some : things are useless (and sometimes are a real problem) and that : maybe I need others features. (I don't know what. Yet.) [Example deleted] : That's (more or less) how I work. : The things I don't like: : - I'd like "Point& p" more than "Point &p". : - I'd like that after "public:" CWEB put a NewLine. : - ... : (Yes, sometimes I create bigger functions...) The joy of prettyprinting :-) : And, in general, in this way LitProg is not really useful. The functions : are small "di per se", they are "inline", they are logically under the : class, they tell a lot just by their name, ... So, why split them up in the first place? : Ok, I know I'm confused and confusing. I just want to know your opinion. : "How do you write (small) classes with C++ and CWEB?" I place logically related methods in the same scrap, e.g. for simple classes I place the constructors in the same scrap. : "Is your style better than mine?" : "Do you think there are some problems, too?" My primary concern is if my programs are well enough explained. Disclaimer: I have never used CWEB --- I fell in love with nuweb (noweb is nice too) Jacob -- Jacob Nielsen iggjacob@bbar.dtu.dk ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 02 Nov 1994 17:04:16 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: botts@hades.ifh.de (James Botts) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, botts@HADES.IFH.DE Subject: FORTRAN IO err jump in FWEB RATFOR Date: 2 Nov 94 16:38:59 Message-ID: To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU Hi Literati, I have found RATFOR in FWEB to be extremely valuable. But there is one thing I can't quite figure out how to work (it might be because I have the flu and my mind isn't working quite at capacity). I want to break out of a loop which has a read statement in it when the read statement hits the end of the file - that is, reproduce that which in FORTRAN would be written as follows: 10 read(2,*,end=20)a . . . go to 10 20 continue Thanks for any thoughts on the subject, Jim -- `??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????' ` ' ` Jim Botts botts@ifh.de ' ` DESY-IfH Zeuthen Work Tel.: ' ` Platanenallee 6 From US: 011.49.33762.77288 ' ` D-15735 Zeuthen, Germany Within Deutschland: 033762.77288 ' ` Fax: 033762.77330 ' ` ' `??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????' ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 03 Nov 1994 08:36:24 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: rzshl@sbusol.rz.uni-sb.de (Harald Lochert) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, rzshl@SBUSOL.RZ.UNI-SB.DE Subject: cweb, cscsope, cnest Date: 3 Nov 1994 14:17:54 GMT Message-ID: <39arei$ifl@coli-gate.coli.uni-sb.de> To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 03 Nov 1994 09:53:42 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: stacey@strat.mcs.kent.edu (Michael Stacey) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, stacey@STRAT.MCS.KENT.EDU Subject: SCCS tags in nuweb files? Date: 3 Nov 1994 15:49:42 GMT Message-ID: <39b0qm$3h1@ns.mcs.kent.edu> To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU I am trying to insert sccs version information in header files created by nuweb. For thsoe who don't use sccs, the macro "%W%" is replaced by a string that begins with "@(#)" and contains version information that can be retrieved with the what command when a document is retrieved in non-edit mode. The problem is that nuweb sees the "@(" as an invalid @ directive. Is there any way around this? -- +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Michael Stacey (stacey@mcs.kent.edu) | +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 03 Nov 1994 11:38:52 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: cisitm@albert.cad.cea.fr (Pierre Didierjean) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, cisitm@ALBERT.CAD.CEA.FR Subject: *** Q: WHAT KIND OF PEOPLE ON THE NET ? Date: 3 Nov 1994 16:36:57 GMT Message-ID: <39b3j9$b37@anemone.saclay.cea.fr> To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU I'd like to know what kind of people i find on the net. Students, Commercials, Adminitrations, Scientifics or what ?? Is anybody knows that or have statistical results ? What are YOU doing in life ? I am a system administrator. Thanks for the answers and sorry for my english ..... Bye +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Pierre DIDIERJEAN | | | | Administrateur Systeme UNIX | | Cisi, Aix-en-Provence | | France | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | email : cisitm@albert.cad.cea.fr | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 03 Nov 1994 13:44:48 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: simon@dcs.exeter.ac.uk Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, simon@DCS.EXETER.AC.UK Date: Thu, 3 Nov 94 16:28:29 GMT Message-ID: <24251.9411031628@kaos.dcs.exeter.ac.uk> To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, stacey@STRAT.MCS.KENT.EDU Subject: Re: SCCS tags in nuweb files? X-Listname: Literate Programming Discussion List Warnings-To: <> Errors-To: owner-litprog@edu.SHSU Sender: owner-litprog@edu.SHSU From: stacey@edu.kent.mcs.strat (Michael Stacey) Reply-To: LitProg@edu.SHSU, stacey@EDU.KENT.MCS.STRAT Date: 3 Nov 1994 15:49:42 GMT I am trying to insert sccs version information in header files created by nuweb. For thsoe who don't use sccs, the macro "%W%" is replaced by a string that begins with "@(#)" and contains version information that can be retrieved with the what command when a document is retrieved in non-edit mode. The problem is that nuweb sees the "@(" as an invalid @ directive. Is there any way around this? i had this problem a while back (although i was using fweb) and the way i got round it was to expand the %W% in manually into my sccs strings when i could put the double '@' for web i can't remember exactly what %W% expands out to --- something like @(#)%M% %I% %D% %T% here is one of my SCCS ID strings which does almost what %W% does -- static char sccsid[]="@@(#)%M%\t%I%\t\ %E%\t\ %U%\t\ (C) S KLYNE 1994."; -- I've used this form for the last couple of years now and had forgotten all about the problem until your note ... simon -- Simon Klyne Connection Science Laboratory email: simon@dcs.exeter.ac.uk Department of Computer Science phone: (+44) 392 264066 (office) University of Exeter EX4 4QE, UK. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 03 Nov 1994 19:48:26 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: beck@amb1.ccalmr.ogi.edu (Bradley Carl Beck) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, beck@AMB1.CCALMR.OGI.EDU Subject: [Q] LitProg w/ FrameMaker? Date: 3 Nov 1994 23:18:25 GMT Message-ID: <39br41$cjo@reuter.cse.ogi.edu> To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU I remember seeing something a while back about using FrameMaker to do Literate Programming. It had something to do with Tags or Paragraph types. Well anyway, could someone point me in the right direction? Much Appreciated!! -- _ __o |_) _ _ _|| _ _`\<,_ |_)| `(_\(_||(/\/ (*)/ (*) --------------_/----------- Bradley C. Beck Oregon Graduate Institute Office: (503) 690-1296 Home: (503) 531-7986 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 04 Nov 1994 04:28:08 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: cnas30@ccsun.strath.ac.uk (E. St. John-Olcayto) Subject: header file creation in CWEB Date: 4 Nov 1994 09:47:30 GMT Message-ID: <39cvvi$5m0@rockall.cc.strath.ac.uk> Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, cnas30@ccsun.strath.ac.uk To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU I'm trying to write a large package in C and I'm using CWEB to do this. Waht I want is a global header file that will be common to several C source files, but I also want this documented. Unfortunately, when I use CWEB and the @) [or is it @( - I can't remember] control code to write to the .h file, ctangle also creates a .c file. Why cant I just tell ctangle what my desired output file is rather than writing to a .h file within my .w file? Well, I also want to write a Makefile with general rules .w:.c and .w:.h . Do I always have to treat a global header file as a specific case? Thanks in advance ps The global header file only needs to include #define statements. Ender. --- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 04 Nov 1994 07:06:09 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: maavl@cwi.nl (Marc van Leeuwen) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, maavl@CWI.NL Subject: Re: header file creation in CWEB Message-ID: Date: Fri, 4 Nov 1994 12:41:27 GMT To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU In article <39cvvi$5m0@rockall.cc.strath.ac.uk>, cnas30@ccsun.strath.ac.uk (E. St. John-Olcayto) writes: |> I'm trying to write a large package in C and I'm using CWEB to do this. |> What I want is a global header file that will be common to several C |> source files, but I also want this documented. Unfortunately, when I use |> CWEB and the @) [or is it @( - I can't remember] control code to write to |> the .h file, ctangle also creates a .c file. Why cant I just tell ctangle |> what my desired output file is rather than writing to a .h file within my |> .w file? Well, I also want to write a Makefile with general rules .w:.c |> and .w:.h . Do I always have to treat a global header file as a specific |> case? |> |> Thanks in advance |> ps |> The global header file only needs to include #define statements. Your posting is not entirely clear, but I believe what you want is a CWEB source that will under CTANGLE produce a .h file and nothing else. The easiest way to do this is to invoke ctangle with a third file name argument; supposing you call the source file global.w and want to produce global.h, say ctangle global - global.h then the main output will be written to global.h instead of to global.c. The `-' is to indicate that you are not specifying a change file (without it, global.h would be taken to be the change file name). If on the other hand you write a source file containing `@( global.h @>=' but no unnamed modules, and call CTANGLE normally, it will still produce a main (.c) output file, which only contains something if you have used `@d' somewhere but not `@h' (the latter would redirect the preprocessor definitions to the auxiliary (.h) output file). I would call this a bug; in the function |phase_two| of CTANGLE where writing output is controlled, all the information is available to avoid writing the main output file if there is not going to be anything in it. The fact is however that CTANGLE opens its output file very early, even before opening its input file, and there is no undoing this. A warning is in place in here: suppose you have a partially literate project, and one of the source files is an ordinary C file without CWEB source, say `illit.c'; then if on some day you accidentally give the command `ctangle illit', the CTANGLE will complain that it can't find `illit.web' AFTER having replaced `illit.c' by an empty file, so you may hope to have made a backup of it... By the way, CWEAVE has a similar behaviour, except that the output file will not be empty, but rather contains "\input cwebma". Needles to say, CWEBx has a more decent behaviour in this respect (available from ftp.cwi.nl:pub/cweb/beta). Marc van Leeuwen CWI, Amsterdam ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 04 Nov 1994 08:44:09 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu Date: Fri, 4 Nov 94 15:26:47 +0100 From: kaufmann@analog.shraero.co.at (Roland Kaufmann SCHRACK AEROSPACE) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, kaufmann@ANALOG.SHRAERO.CO.AT Message-ID: <9411041426.AA17610@analog.co.at.> To: LitProg@SHSU.edu Subject: header file creation in CWEB (cont.) Hi Literati, In article <39cvvi$5m0@rockall.cc.strath.ac.uk>, cnas30@ccsun.strath.ac.uk (E. St. John-Olcayto) seems to want to tangle into a single .h file. I have been using a strategy where one huge (well, for my taste.. :-) web, which produces several .c and .h files using CWEBs @( file @> mechanism and it worked just fine. I didn't encounter the difficulties of producing a spurious .c file because my WEB tangled into several .c files anyway and incidentally the names of the .h and .c files matched. (See my earlier posting Date: Tue, 18 Oct 94 13:05:30 +0100 From: kaufmann@analog.shraero.co.at (Roland Kaufmann SCHRACK AEROSPACE) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, kaufmann@ANALOG.shraero.co.at To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, theedge@rbg.informatik.th-darmstadt.de Subject: Re: Style of header file inclusion for more details). Roland ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 04 Nov 1994 10:10:48 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: dave@oldtwok (Dave Hamilton) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, dave@OLDTWOK Subject: Re: header file creation in CWEB Date: 4 Nov 1994 15:55:11 GMT Message-ID: <39dlgv$5vr@istwok.ods.com> To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU E. St. John-Olcayto (cnas30@ccsun.strath.ac.uk) wrote: : I'm trying to write a large package in C and I'm using CWEB to do this. : Waht I want is a global header file that will be common to several C : source files, but I also want this documented. Unfortunately, when I use : CWEB and the @) [or is it @( - I can't remember] control code to write to : the .h file, ctangle also creates a .c file. Why cant I just tell ctangle : what my desired output file is rather than writing to a .h file within my : .w file? Well, I also want to write a Makefile with general rules .w:.c : and .w:.h . Do I always have to treat a global header file as a specific : case? : Thanks in advance : ps : The global header file only needs to include #define statements. : Ender. : --- I use a DOS-ported version of CWEB and when I want to generate a cplusplus file from my web with an extension of .cpp rather than the default .c, I use the command 'ctangle file.w - file.cpp'. It seems to me that you could do something similar to generate only a header file. Dave Hamilton ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 04 Nov 1994 13:14:41 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu Message-ID: <199411041914.AA21327@noc.BelWue.DE> From: Aaron "Optimizer" Digulla Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, digulla@FH-KONSTANZ.DE Subject: Re: SCCS tags in nuweb files? To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, stacey@strat.mcs.kent.edu Date: Fri, 4 Nov 94 20:09:04 MEZ > I am trying to insert sccs version information in header files created by > nuweb. For thsoe who don't use sccs, the macro "%W%" is replaced by a > string that begins with "@(#)" and contains version information that can be > retrieved with the what command when a document is retrieved in non-edit > mode. > The problem is that nuweb sees the "@(" as an invalid @ directive. Is there > any way around this? Well, you can try my way. I have a filter between my original files (.src) and the CWEB-file (.web) which removes anything between @rem<...@>. I just run the filter over the file and then CWEB (make does it for me). -- Aaron "Optimizer" Digulla. Author of XDME "(to) optimize: Make a program faster by improving the algorithms rather than by buying a faster machine." ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 05 Nov 1994 16:40:41 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: "Denis B. Roegel" Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, Denis.Roegel@LORIA.FR Date: Sat, 5 Nov 1994 23:41:00 +0100 Message-ID: <199411052241.XAA17543@pandore.loria.fr> To: LitProg@SHSU.edu Subject: pb to compile TIE CC: roegel@lorraine.loria.fr I need to compile the TIE tool, which enables to merge several .ch files together. I found a `tie' directory in the spiderweb directory on CTAN. Here is the content of the directory before I try to compile the stuff: ----------- -rw-rw-r-- 1 roegel 868 Oct 20 12:15 @read@.me -rw-rw-r-- 1 roegel 233 Nov 5 23:24 Makefile -rw-rw-r-- 1 roegel 243 Nov 5 23:24 Makefile.orig -rw-rw-r-- 1 roegel 99 Oct 20 12:15 cf1 -rw-rw-r-- 1 roegel 166 Oct 20 12:15 cf2 -rw-rw-r-- 1 roegel 37 Oct 20 12:15 cf3 -rw-rw-r-- 1 roegel 6136 Oct 20 12:15 character.web -rw-rw-r-- 1 roegel 1811 Oct 20 12:15 datadecl.web -rw-rw-r-- 1 roegel 1754 Oct 20 12:15 error.web -rw-rw-r-- 1 roegel 739 Oct 20 12:15 history.web -rw-rw-r-- 1 roegel 3485 Oct 20 12:15 io.web -rw-rw-r-- 1 roegel 71 Oct 20 12:15 master -rw-rw-r-- 1 roegel 94 Oct 20 12:15 newmaster -rw-rw-r-- 1 roegel 4559 Oct 20 12:15 tie.chf -rw-rw-r-- 1 roegel 4372 Oct 20 12:18 tie.idx -rw-rw-r-- 1 roegel 825 Oct 20 12:15 tie.preamble -rw-rw-r-- 1 roegel 1510 Oct 20 12:18 tie.scn -rw-rw-r-- 1 roegel 15062 Oct 20 12:15 tie.web -rw-rw-r-- 1 roegel 15347 Oct 20 12:15 tie.web,v -rw-rw-r-- 1 roegel 38839 Oct 20 12:15 tie.web.dist -rw-rw-r-- 1 roegel 5206 Oct 20 12:15 tiedoc.tex ----------- Then I try to compile it: pandore tie 520 % make tie ctangle tie This is CTANGLE (Version 3.0) *1*7*9*13*19*31*42*49*52*56*64*65 Writing the output file (tie.c):.....500 Done. (No errors were found.) lcc -g -DDEBUG -target sun4 -c tie.c sh: lcc: not found *** Error code 1 make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `tie.o' pandore tie 521 % cc -g -DDEBUG -target sun4 -c tie.c "datadecl.web", line 52: syntax error at or near symbol = "datadecl.web", line 66: syntax error at or near symbol = "datadecl.web", line 66: syntax error at or near symbol ] "datadecl.web", line 67: syntax error at or near symbol = "datadecl.web", line 67: syntax error at or near symbol ] "character.web", line 81: syntax error at or near symbol = "error.web", line 29: input_organization undefined "error.web", line 41: input_organization undefined "error.web", line 42: lineno undefined "error.web", line 56: syntax error at or near symbol = "history.web", line 18: syntax error at or near symbol = "tie.web", line 81: syntax error at or near symbol = "tie.web", line 142: syntax error at or near symbol = "tie.web", line 145: syntax error at or near symbol = "tie.web", line 157: syntax error at or near symbol = "tie.web", line 157: syntax error at or near symbol = "tie.web", line 157: syntax error at or near symbol = "tie.web", line 158: input_organization undefined "tie.web", line 158: warning: illegal structure pointer combination "tie.web", line 377: input_organization undefined "tie.web", line 377: mode undefined "tie.web", line 377: syntax error at or near symbol = "tie.web", line 378: lineno undefined "tie.web", line 379: type_of_file undefined "tie.web", line 379: syntax error at or near symbol = "tie.web", line 380: limit undefined "tie.web", line 381: syntax error at or near symbol = "tie.web", line 381: buffer undefined "tie.web", line 384: syntax error at or near symbol = "tie.web", line 94: syntax error at or near symbol = "tie.web", line 96: syntax error at or near symbol = "tie.web", line 107: input_organization undefined "tie.web", line 107: fatal error: too many errors pandore tie 522 % What's the problem ? The original Makefile had the `lcc' compiler. Is this a typo ? I don't have it. I tried both gcc and cc, and it doesn't help. Btw, the first error appears in the line about `ascii_code buffer' in: typedef char out_md_type;@/ typedef char *name_type;@/ typedef int buffer_index; typedef int file_index; typedef struct { name_type name_of_file; ascii_code buffer[buf_size+1]; in_file_modes mode; int lineno; file_types type_of_file; int limit; } input_description; but I don't understand the error. I think it's time to go back to this good old principle: "If you don't understand the error message, then the problem is likely to be somewhere else." Thanks for your help, Denis. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 06 Nov 1994 06:38:29 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: bdanilko@eleceng.adelaide.edu.au (Brian Danilko) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, bdanilko@ELECENG.ADELAIDE.EDU.AU Message-ID: <9411061237.AA05443@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Fractals To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, bglanvil@cln.etc.bc.ca Date: Sun, 6 Nov 1994 23:07:45 +1030 (CST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Brook, Your message stood out as my brother is a baker at Safeway in William's Lake. So you're interested in fractals. Well it doesn't really pertain to literate programming but what the hell. From what I remember about fractals, and any points in a Julia Set is that they are points in the complex plane that don't diverge under a function. Make sense? I seem to remember a function f = x^2 + 1 where x is a complex number. If you feed the result back into the function f and the result DOESN'T keep getting bigger then this point is inside the Julia set. By assigning different colours to how quickly points diverge you get a fractal. Hope this helps, but I realise that it may not be practical enough. If you still need help feel free to mail me and we can figure it out together. If so, please indicate what points in the above paragraph made sense - that will give us a common language to start from. If you are in Safeway and near the bakery area, please say "Hi" to Dan there from his brother. Take care, Brian -- ----------------------------------- Brian Danilko (bdanilko@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.au) Formal Solutions 20 Main St., Hahndorf, South Australia, 5245, AUSTRALIA ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 06 Nov 1994 15:42:19 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: bdanilko@eleceng.adelaide.edu.au (Brian Danilko) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, bdanilko@ELECENG.ADELAIDE.EDU.AU Message-ID: <9411062142.AA15983@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Fractals mistake and LP for OO programming To: LitProg@SHSU.edu Date: Mon, 7 Nov 1994 08:12:06 +1030 (CST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit About the fractals post to the litprog group: Sorry for the post to a wider audience then expected. Really have to watch that Reply To: header when hitting 'r'. The fact that the person lived in the same small town as my brother enticed me to mail while sleepy. Now for some useful literate programming discussion. I have been watching the talk on using literate programming with oo languages. My two cents worth: I have definitely noticed benefits using a literate programming meta-language (noweb in my case) while doing C++ programming. The current thing that I find useful (it changes depending where I am in the development cycle) is the ability to group information about a class in an intuitive, maintainable way. The user interface and the implementation close by but distinct without regard for efficiency specifiers (inline) or information hiding for users of the class. IMHO C++ has two problems with its encapsulation model the class: 1) efficient inline implementation must be visible to a class user's compiler and 2) private, implementation data definitions must also be visible to a class user's compiler. As I tend to think of classes as abstract data types where the user must not make ANY assumptions about the implementation methods or data I tend to separate the information into different header files. The user can still look at implementation details but at least the separation clearly marks what information they should make assumptions on. This separation though into separate files introduces a maintenance nightmare. Especially if you change methods from inline to outline and back. Enter LP with 'chunks' in a single file that can be output to multiple files. I now keep all class information in a single web, but direct output so that implementation information is separated from public information. Lets face it, oo programming can be done in C but the tools for encapsulation (and other things) are clumsy. C++ introduced the class keyword to make encapsulation easier. Well with a meta-language with 'chunks' we now have a tool that makes encapsulation even easier. That's just one benefit, but I believe an important one. I have found other benefits (and a certain elegance) to literate programming but as this post is already long, I will leave them to another day. Brian -- ----------------------------------- Brian Danilko (bdanilko@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.au) Formal Solutions 20 Main St., Hahndorf, South Australia, 5245, AUSTRALIA ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 07 Nov 1994 08:38:06 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: partingr@p4.cs.man.ac.uk (Robert Partington) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, partingr@P4.CS.MAN.AC.UK Subject: CWEB is driving me nuts... Date: 7 Nov 1994 14:10:55 GMT Message-ID: <39lchf$c9n@m1.cs.man.ac.uk> To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU I'm trying to do my third year project in CWEB. Easy... Except that the version of CWEB I have (3.0 or 3.2) doesn't use @h as a #include anymore. And while the documentation says that it knows all the ISO types, IT DOESN'T KNOW ANY Xt ONES!!! So what I need is some way of getting CWEB to *automatically* figure out the Xt/Xaw types from the header files (I tried @i and it couldn't find the files even when given the full path name---and I don't fancy trawling through my program creating a big @s list...). Can any one help me? Or has anyone get a C prettyprinter/automatic indexer for noweb they can get to me in a hurry? Pleeeeeeese... Rob the Stressed-Out ==================== BTW my noweb page (http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~partingr/LITP/noweb.html) should be world accessible. I'll be putting updated version of my cross referencing scripts on there this week (with at least 2 fixed bugs...) -- Robert Partington, Manchester Uni, 3rd year CS partingr@cs.man.ac.uk / http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~partingr/homepage.html Maintainer of the Halibutt Sharon WWW page. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 07 Nov 1994 09:50:42 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu Date: Mon, 7 Nov 1994 16:49:25 +0100 From: Bernard URBAN Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, Bernard.URBAN@METEO.FR Message-ID: <199411071549.AA15042@hathor.meteo.fr> To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, partingr@t9.cs.man.ac.uk CC: urban@hathor.meteo.fr Subject: Re: CWEB is driving me nuts... You write: I'm trying to do my third year project in CWEB. Easy... Except that the version of CWEB I have (3.0 or 3.2) doesn't use @h as a #include anymore. And while the documentation says that it knows all the ISO types, IT DOESN'T KNOW ANY Xt ONES!!! So what I need is some way of getting CWEB to *automatically* figure out the Xt/Xaw types from the header files (I tried @i and it couldn't find the files even when given the full path name---and I don't fancy trawling through my program creating a big @s list...). Can any one help me? Or has anyone get a C prettyprinter/automatic indexer for noweb they can get to me in a hurry? Pleeeeeeese... I use FWEB, where what you call @s is called @f, but the problem is the same. For structure declarations and so on, I have no easy solution, but for function prototypes, there is a simple way to go. Execute simply the following : nm /usr/lib/libX{11,t,aw,au}.a |grep "T _[^_]"|sed -e "1,\$s/.*T _\([^ ]*\) *.*/@f \1 cos/" >fct and include "fct" in you .web file (I use @I in FWEB). Hope this helps, at least partially. B. Urban ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 07 Nov 1994 23:41:14 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: chigh@halcyon.com (Cliff High) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, chigh@HALCYON.COM Subject: READ very fast for only $7.00 US! Date: Mon, 7 Nov 1994 22:20:18 UNDEFINED Message-ID: Keywords: READ very fast for only $7.00 US! To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU READ very fast for only $7.00 US! Requires Windows 3.0 or greater. Will not run on WinNT. Send us a check or money order for $7.00 and we will send via return mail, a copy of Vortex for you to try. This is a shareware product. Complete, functioning, not crippleware. If you like it, you can register for $39.95! What a deal. And you get to subtract the $7.00 that brought you this amazing approach to reading. Announcing Vortex THe Machine Assisted Reading Software. Written in PROLOG, one of the artificial intelligence languages. Read faster than you thought! Faster than your eyes can carry you! Read with speed and comprehension and concentration beyond imagination! [Anecdotal evidence as reason to purchase - also happens to be true.] My fifteen year old, blue haired nephew read at more than 630 words a minute within the first ten minutes! With consistent use, 1000+ words a minute is easy! (well, okay, easier.) You still have to use your brain to understand what Vortex pumps into you. Be a shockwave rider! Get your copy of Vortex TODAY while we're still in the mood to copy disks and mail for only $7.00! Send check or money order to: Vortex for cheap! Tenax SE 2103 Harrison Ave NW Suite 141 Olympia, WA 98502 Also: It is available from Compuserve in the Windows shareware forum. Also: Vortex will gladly be uploaded to any FTP host willing to allow the volume of traffic that this offer generates. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Nov 1994 15:36:03 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: Jerry.Wilcox@ucop.edu (Jerry Wilcox) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, Jerry.Wilcox@UCOP.EDU Subject: Re: HELP!!HELP!!HELP!! Date: Tue, 08 Nov 1994 13:27:21 -0800 Message-ID: To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU In article <39obno$62j@eis.wfunet.wfu.edu>, (student) wrote: > I have a major problem... > > > I need a solution to this as soon as possible! > > > > I need a seating plan for a table of 12. > It is known that no guest knows more than 5 people. > The host wants to have no one at the table sitting next to anyone he or she > knows. > Provide a proof that this is possible. > > Thanks, please post!! Hmmmm. Shouldn't you do your own homework "(student)"? -- Jerry Wilcox == Jerry.Wilcox@ucop.edu I don't speak for the University and it doesn't speak for me. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 09 Nov 1994 12:37:55 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: maavl@cwi.nl (Marc van Leeuwen) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, maavl@CWI.NL Subject: Re: CWEB is driving me nuts... Message-ID: Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 10:13:29 GMT To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU In article <39lchf$c9n@m1.cs.man.ac.uk>, partingr@p4.cs.man.ac.uk (Robert Partington) writes: |> I'm trying to do my third year project in CWEB. Easy... Except that |> the version of CWEB I have (3.0 or 3.2) doesn't use @h as a #include |> anymore. And while the documentation says that it knows all the ISO |> types, IT DOESN'T KNOW ANY Xt ONES!!! |> |> So what I need is some way of getting CWEB to *automatically* figure |> out the Xt/Xaw types from the header files (I tried @i and it couldn't |> find the files even when given the full path name---and I don't fancy |> trawling through my program creating a big @s list...). Looks like you're the ideal customer for CWEBx, so get the beta version at ftp.cwi.nl:pub/cweb/beta. Since you know about @h already, I suppose you've been using CWEB 3.x before, an earlier version of CWEBx, but not of CWEB 3.0 or CWEB 3.2 (so no wonder those do not know about `@h' "any more"; in fact, as you may have noticed, they use `@h' for something else). Use `@h' in place of `#include', and use for the X headers; to find the actual header files, add -I/usr/local/X11R5/include/X11/Xaw/ (or the equivalent on your system) to the command line of CWEAVE (note the final slash; CWEBx knows nothing about UNIX pathname separators, so you have to tell it yourself). You probably also need to specify a path for the ordinary Xlib headers to be found; basically you need the same set of paths that your compiler needs to find the header files. The first pass of CWEAVE can become quite a bit slower than it used to be, but then it needs to scan thousands of lines of X-header file to locate your typedefs... Hope this works, Marc van Leeuwen CWI, Amsterdam ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 13:51:44 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: perin@med.cornell.edu (Lewis Perin) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, perin@MED.CORNELL.EDU Subject: Re: CWEB is driving me nuts... Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 16:58:46 EST Message-ID: Keywords: ctangle speed To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU In article maavl@cwi.nl (Marc van Leeuwen) writes: >From: maavl@cwi.nl (Marc van Leeuwen) >Subject: Re: CWEB is driving me nuts... >Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 10:13:29 GMT >In article <39lchf$c9n@m1.cs.man.ac.uk>, partingr@p4.cs.man.ac.uk (Robert >Partington) writes: >|> I'm trying to do my third year project in CWEB. Easy... Except that >|> the version of CWEB I have (3.0 or 3.2) doesn't use @h as a #include >|> anymore. And while the documentation says that it knows all the ISO >|> types, IT DOESN'T KNOW ANY Xt ONES!!! >|> >|> So what I need is some way of getting CWEB to *automatically* figure >|> out the Xt/Xaw types from the header files (I tried @i and it couldn't >|> find the files even when given the full path name---and I don't fancy >|> trawling through my program creating a big @s list...). >Looks like you're the ideal customer for CWEBx, so get the beta version at >ftp.cwi.nl:pub/cweb/beta. Since you know about @h already, I suppose you've >been using CWEB 3.x before, an earlier version of CWEBx, but not of CWEB 3.0 >or CWEB 3.2 (so no wonder those do not know about `@h' "any more"; in fact, >as you may have noticed, they use `@h' for something else). Use `@h' in >place of `#include', and use for the X headers; to find >the actual header files, add -I/usr/local/X11R5/include/X11/Xaw/ (or the >equivalent on your system) to the command line of CWEAVE (note the final >slash; CWEBx knows nothing about UNIX pathname separators, so you have to >tell it yourself). You probably also need to specify a path for the ordinary >Xlib headers to be found; basically you need the same set of paths that your >compiler needs to find the header files. The first pass of CWEAVE can become >quite a bit slower than it used to be, but then it needs to scan thousands >of lines of X-header file to locate your typedefs... Hope this works, >Marc van Leeuwen >CWI, Amsterdam Sounds great, with a big "if": If CWEBx is processing headers itself, it's presumably going to do so in both WEAVE (where speed isn't crucial) and TANGLE (where it is.) So is CTANGLEx's header processing anywhere near as fast as, say, gcc's or Borland's? __ perin@med.cornell.edu (212)746-2946 | |_ \ / : Lew Perin |__ |__ \/\/ : Home: (201)435-2679 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 14:22:10 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: jpisoni@well.sf.ca.us (Jill Pisoni) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, jpisoni@WELL.SF.CA.US Subject: Win API programming Date: 9 Nov 1994 22:43:17 GMT Message-ID: <39rja5$5ch@nkosi.well.com> To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU Waite Group Press is looking for experienced Windows API programmers to help us revise our Windows API Bible for the release of Windows 95. If you are interested, please contact me at CIS:74601,3330. Thanks. Jill Pisoni Acquisitions Editor Waite Group Press ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 15:09:09 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: palmerp@math.orst.edu (Paul A Palmer) Subject: Stanford GraphBase: where? Date: 9 Nov 94 15:20:02 Message-ID: Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, Paul Palmer To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU The FAQ says the Stanford GraphBase is at labrea.stanford.edu:/pub/sgb but it refuses ftp connection as either ftp or anonymous. Any ideas on what to try next? -- Paul Palmer Department of Mathematics E-mail: palmerp@math.orst.edu Kidder Hall 368 Oregon State University, Corvallis, Oregon 97331-4605 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 15:11:04 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: dralle@roxanne.llnl.gov (Matt G. Dralle 510-422-4896) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, dralle@ROXANNE.LLNL.GOV Subject: 8051/8052 C Compiler Source... Date: 10 Nov 1994 20:47:18 GMT Message-ID: <39u0sm$p7c@lll-winken.llnl.gov> To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU I am looking for a good/excellent C compiler for the 8051/8052 microcontrollers. I would like to use Windows for development, but the compiler should have a DOS command line interface as well. Looking through the Embedded Controllers Mag, I notice a number of companies that make C compilers for these chips, but how do you choose? I would like spend about $500 and get a good simulator as well in the package. A nice Windows interface for debug/simulation would be a big plus, but not necessary. A very stable, reliable compiler is a must. I don't want to debug a compiler for anybody. I need to write some tight fast code quickly. Any information, thoughts or experience you could lend in my quest would be greatly apperciated. Please send email to: dralle@roxanne.llnl.gov Thank you, Matt Dralle -- dralle@roxanne.llnl.gov 510-422-4896 Voice 510-422-2425 FAX ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 23:12:50 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: j_mcarthur@BIX.com (Jeffrey McArthur) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, j_mcarthur@BIX.COM Subject: WEB TeX to MWeb TeX to OWeb TeX Date: Fri, 11 Nov 1994 00:18:42 Message-ID: <39uub6$bgk@news-feed.delphi.com> To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU The company I work for is considering a major undertaking. We would like to create a multi-threaded version of TeX. The approach we would like to take is to convert the WEB (Pascal) version of TeX into a MWEB (Modula-2) of TeX, and from there move to OWEB (Oberon or Oberon-2 WEB which currently does not yet exist). To do this we would need programmers who are well versed in WEB, Pascal, Modula-2 and Oberon. The first target platform would be OS/2. To completely control development it may be necessary to implement our own version of an Oberon (or Oberon-2) compiler. Knowledge of compiler construction and OS/2 are also needed. We need to know if we can find people who could undertake this challanging task. If you would be interested in working on this project I would like to hear from you. ---- Jeffrey M\kern-.05em\raise.5ex\hbox{\b c}\kern-.05emArthur a.k.a. Jeffrey McArthur email: j_mcarthur@bix.com home: (410) 290-6935 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 11 Nov 1994 09:30:40 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu Subject: Re: CWEB is driving me nuts... Message-ID: From: maavl@cwi.nl (Marc van Leeuwen) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, maavl@CWI.NL Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 08:51:56 GMT Keywords: ctangle speed To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU In article , perin@med.cornell.edu (Lewis Perin) writes: |> In article maavl@cwi.nl (Marc van Leeuwen) writes: |> [stuff about handling header files by CWEBx] |> Sounds great, with a big "if": If CWEBx is processing headers itself, it's |> presumably going to do so in both WEAVE (where speed isn't crucial) and TANGLE |> (where it is.) So is CTANGLEx's header processing anywhere near as fast as, |> say, gcc's or Borland's? No, in CWEBx only CWEAVE reads header files, and only in the first pass (when it tries to find the category of all identifiers, and in particular of typerdef'd ones). CTANGLE just puts an #include line in the output file, so that the compiler can do its usual own smart (or otherwise:-) things with it. The task of CTANGLE is quite trivial, and it does not need to know the category of identifiers to perform it (it does not even need to know the difference between identifiers and keywords). Marc van Leeuwen ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 11 Nov 1994 10:46:09 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu Subject: Re: Stanford GraphBase: where? Message-ID: <39svfp$1cq@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk> From: gjm11@can.pmms.cam.ac.uk (Gareth McCaughan) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, gjm11@CAN.PMMS.CAM.AC.UK Date: 10 Nov 1994 11:17:13 GMT To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU In article , Paul A Palmer wrote: > The FAQ says the Stanford GraphBase is at > > labrea.stanford.edu:/pub/sgb > > but it refuses ftp connection as either ftp or anonymous. > > Any ideas on what to try next? It works OK for me. Perhaps it just had a number-of-users restriction? -- Gareth McCaughan Dept. of Pure Mathematics & Mathematical Statistics, gjm11@cus.cam.ac.uk Cambridge University, England. [Research student] ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 11 Nov 1994 11:35:48 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu Date: Fri, 11 Nov 94 12:35:43 EST From: Lee Wittenberg Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, leew@PILOT.NJIN.NET To: LitProg@shsu.edu, j_mcarthur@bix.com Subject: Re: WEB TeX to MWeb TeX to OWeb TeX Message-ID: > The company I work for is considering a major undertaking. We would like > to create a multi-threaded version of TeX. The approach we would like to > take is to convert the WEB (Pascal) version of TeX into a MWEB (Modula-2) > of TeX, and from there move to OWEB (Oberon or Oberon-2 WEB which currently > does not yet exist). > > To do this we would need programmers who are well versed in WEB, Pascal, > Modula-2 and Oberon. The first target platform would be OS/2. To > completely control development it may be necessary to implement our own > version of an Oberon (or Oberon-2) compiler. Knowledge of compiler > construction and OS/2 are also needed. > > We need to know if we can find people who could undertake this challanging > task. If you would be interested in working on this project I would like > I'm interested (intrigued might be a better word). I'm somewhat familiar with Oberon & compiler construction, but am completely ignorant about OX/2. On the other hand, I have quite a bit of experience with Spidery WEB, which should be useful in creating an OWEB system. -- Lee ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Lee Wittenberg | The best part ... was when we were in Computer Science Department | charge of things... The feeling that every Kean College of New Jersey | minute was vital, that everything one did Union, NJ 07083 | could sway the balance between success and USA | failure... The part I didnt't enjoy was | when we were in other people's hands -- | not knowing the score and having no say. | -- Eric Williams leew@pilot.njin.net | "The Wooden Horse" (1949, 1979) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 11 Nov 1994 14:36:43 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: trashy@subzero.winternet.com (Barry Schwartz) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, trashy@SUBZERO.WINTERNET.COM Subject: Re: WEB TeX to MWeb TeX to OWeb TeX Date: 11 Nov 1994 20:22:42 GMT Message-ID: <3a0jqi$1vf@blackice.winternet.com> To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU In article <39uub6$bgk@news-feed.delphi.com> j_mcarthur@BIX.com (Jeffrey McArthur) writes: ]The company I work for is considering a major undertaking. We would like ]to create a multi-threaded version of TeX. The approach we would like to ]take is to convert the WEB (Pascal) version of TeX into a MWEB (Modula-2) ]of TeX, and from there move to OWEB (Oberon or Oberon-2 WEB which currently ]does not yet exist). Dare I suggest you use noweb, so you can use the same tool for whatever languages you finally wind up using? -- Barry Schwartz at MedGraphics trashy@winternet.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 12 Nov 1994 01:35:54 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: j_mcarthur@BIX.com (Jeffrey McArthur) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, j_mcarthur@BIX.COM Subject: Re: WEB TeX to MWeb TeX to OWeb TeX Date: Sat, 12 Nov 1994 01:14:18 Message-ID: <3a1l5k$6kp@news-feed.delphi.com> To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU >Dare I suggest you use noweb, so you can use the same tool for >whatever languages you finally wind up using? TeX is currently written in Web. There is an existing MWeb. We currently have a version of TeX that compiles under TopSeed Pascal. We plan on converting TeX from Pascal Web to Modula-2 Web one procedure at a time. This allows us to use the Trip test to make sure that we don't break anything. While we do the port we use a sub-set of Modula-2 that will make it easy to port to Oberon. If things work as planned, the Modula-2 version will directly compile using an Oberon Compiler. Converting MWEB to an OWEB should be almost trivial (going from Pascal to Modual-2 is much more complex than going from Modula-2 to Oberon). ---- Jeffrey M\kern-.05em\raise.5ex\hbox{\b c}\kern-.05emArthur a.k.a. Jeffrey McArthur email: j_mcarthur@bix.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 12 Nov 1994 01:56:43 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: ap656@freenet.buffalo.edu (Richard D. Rost) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, ap656@FREENET.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: < Learn how to program in C/C++ > Message-ID: Date: Sat, 12 Nov 1994 06:20:46 GMT To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU We're interested in finding people who are anxious to learn how to program in C/C++, or who know a little C/C++ and would like to expand their knowledge and tune their programming skills. If you're interested, reply to this message, or send Email to: Richard Rost Author of the "Learning C" tutorial series ROST97@snybufaa.cs.snybuf.edu ap656@freenet.buffalo.edu 1-12172@wwivnet.net.bbs.org -- Richard D. Rost Amicron Technology Services 716-897-3538. BBS: 716-897-3157. Send for a FREE computer price list! ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 13 Nov 1994 13:01:27 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: cubbagec@river.it.gvsu.edu (Chris G. Cubbage) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, cubbagec@RIVER.IT.GVSU.EDU Subject: IBM's PAT Date: 13 Nov 1994 17:39:16 GMT Message-ID: <3a5j04$5iv@news.it.gvsu.edu> To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU I read an article that was written in 1975 about hiring programmers. It mentioned IBM's Progammer Aptitude Test (PAT). Does anyone know if it's possible to get a copy of that? Does it have to be purchased from IBM, or can it be freely copied? If possible, I would really appreciate someone e-mailing it to me. Thanks in advance for any answers you can give me. Chris ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 13 Nov 1994 22:40:23 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: dgall@aol.com (DGall) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, dgall@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Looking for a C/C++ Programmer Date: 13 Nov 1994 23:25:42 -0500 Message-ID: <3a6os6$ec0@newsbf01.news.aol.com> To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU In article , al2s@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Arie Lapidot) writes: >> o C and C++ programming skills (4+ years) o Strong mathematical and analytical background o BS (or higher) in mathematics, CS, or engineering If you do not possess the following traits, please do not bother to respond:<< Tell your friend there are many talented programmers who didn't complete their BS degrees. I work for the regional Bell company, and there is a C++ genius here who never completed his BS degree, but is by FAR the best programmer in the group. By the same token, I know of some guys who barely graduated, and did just enough to get by in programming courses, yet do have their BS degrees in CS. Good luck, DGall ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Nov 1994 02:10:55 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu To: LitProg@SHSU.edu From: "Roger Koumans" Date: Mon, 14 Nov 1994 09:04:42 MET-1DST Subject: Re: < Learn how to program in C/C++ > Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, R.G.M.P.Koumans@ele.tue.nl Message-ID: <1E07D007DD3@eclan.ec.ele.tue.nl> > We're interested in finding people who are > anxious to learn how to program in C/C++, > or who know a little C/C++ and would like > to expand their knowledge and tune their > programming skills. > > If you're interested, reply to this message, > or send Email to: > > > Richard Rost > Author of the "Learning C" tutorial series > ROST97@snybufaa.cs.snybuf.edu > ap656@freenet.buffalo.edu > 1-12172@wwivnet.net.bbs.org > > -- > Richard D. Rost > Amicron Technology Services > 716-897-3538. BBS: 716-897-3157. > Send for a FREE computer price list! > Well, I am interested in learning C/C++ !! At this time I do know nothing about C/C++. What to do now?? Regards, Roger ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Nov 1994 14:02:26 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu Date: Mon, 14 Nov 94 15:02:04 EST From: Lee Wittenberg Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, leew@PILOT.NJIN.NET To: LitProg@shsu.edu, j_mcarthur@bix.com Subject: Re: WEB TeX to MWeb TeX to OWeb TeX Message-ID: Jeffrey M\kern-.05em\raise.5ex\hbox{\b c}\kern-.05emArthur writes, in response to the following question > >Dare I suggest you use noweb, so you can use the same tool for > >whatever languages you finally wind up using? > > TeX is currently written in Web. There is an existing MWeb. We currently > have a version of TeX that compiles under TopSeed Pascal. We plan on > converting TeX from Pascal Web to Modula-2 Web one procedure at a time. > This allows us to use the Trip test to make sure that we don't break > anything. While we do the port we use a sub-set of Modula-2 that will make > it easy to port to Oberon. If things work as planned, the Modula-2 version > will directly compile using an Oberon Compiler. > > Converting MWEB to an OWEB should be almost trivial (going from Pascal to > Modual-2 is much more complex than going from Modula-2 to Oberon). Actually, going from WEB to noweb should also be trivial, and going from noweb (Modula) to noweb (Oberon) should be equally trivial. In fact, if you use the nocond filter, you can keep all three versions together in the same web, enabling you to make sure that the new language code in corresponding chunks actually accomplishes the same result as the original language chunk, thus increasing confidence in the correctness of the translation. -- Lee ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Lee Wittenberg | The best part ... was when we were in Computer Science Department | charge of things... The feeling that every Kean College of New Jersey | minute was vital, that everything one did Union, NJ 07083 | could sway the balance between success and USA | failure... The part I didnt't enjoy was | when we were in other people's hands -- | not knowing the score and having no say. | -- Eric Williams leew@pilot.njin.net | "The Wooden Horse" (1949, 1979) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Nov 1994 22:08:54 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 03:42:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Stephen Boyan (510) 926-3291/fax 926-3604" Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, BOYANST@NCAL.KAIPERM.ORG Subject: Re: Looking for a C/C++ Programmer To: litprog@shsu.edu >> o C and C++ programming skills (4+ years) o Strong mathematical and analytical background o BS (or higher) in mathematics, CS, or engineering At least this is better than the requirements on some of the job postings I've seen in commercial programming shops, where the requirements specify BS in Computer Science or Business Administration. To paraphrase the Rain-man in the movie "Definitely related fields. Definitely." Except Rain-man always struck me as getting it right. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Nov 1994 23:55:35 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: dwhorvitz@aol.com (DWHORVITZ) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, dwhorvitz@AOL.COM Subject: SMALLTALK DEVELOPMENT Date: 15 Nov 1994 00:40:29 -0500 Message-ID: <3a9hkd$2f4@newsbf01.news.aol.com> To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU I'm a programmer who recently decided to try Smalltalk/V for win. I would like any input from any programmers familiar with Smalltalk/V good or bad etc. More specifically I am having trouble figuring out how to compile an application to a stand-alone "exe" . Also I can't seem to find any reference to the menu item "Install" (a submenu of file) in the development enviornment; it's not in the original manual or any doc files. Any help would be greatly appreciated. -Dana ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 05:39:17 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: thompson@sun1.coe.ttu.edu Subject: comp.programming.literate FAQ Date: 15 Nov 1994 10:07:08 GMT Message-ID: Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, thompson@sun1.coe.ttu.edu To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU Archive-name: literate-programming-faq Last-modified: 1994/08/23 Version: 1.1.10 Welcome to the Literate Programming Frequently Asked Questions List ------------------------------------------------------------------- This version was created Tuesday, August 23, 1994, and should considered stale after 90 days. Information contained in this document is the best available at preparation. The original file was dated October 15, 1993 (just for historical purposes). Disclaimer: "This FAQ is presented with no warranties or guarantees of ANY KIND including correctness or fitness for any particular purpose. The author of this document has attempted to verify correctness of the data contained herein; however, slip-ups can and do happen. If you use this data, you do so at your own risk." Copyright 1993, 1994 David B. Thompson. All rights reserved worldwide. Permission is granted to copy this document for free distribution so long as it remains intact and unmodified. For other arrangements, contact the author/maintainer via email: thompson@sun1.coe.ttu.edu. What's New? ----------- + Add Fold2Web entry. + Correct noweb.el entry. (Thanks Dominique!) + Update nuweb.el entry. + Update SchemeWEB entry. + Update WWW and literate programming entry. + Update c2cweb entry. = ====================================================================== * Introduction or "What's this all about?" ------------------------------------------ This document is for new and experienced users of literate programming tools. The purpose is to explain the concept of literate programming and to provide a resource for locating files of interest to literate programmers and those interested in literate programming. The Literate Programming (LitProg) Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) list is maintained by Dave Thompson, who can be reached at: thompson@sun1.coe.ttu.edu * Preferred mailing address for FAQ related comments/questions. wqdbt@ttacs1.ttu.edu * Forwarded to my pc. Comment and constructive criticism is welcome. Direct flames to /dev/null (or > nul if you're a msdos user! ;-) If you find an error, please report it. I'm particularly interested in establishing the locations of generally available literate programming tools. If you are the author of such a tool and wish to have it included in this list, please send email. Please note this is a work-in-progress. It is *not* complete, and probably will not be complete for some months. Nevertheless, the information contained herein may be useful to some. Use it as it is intended. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - Typography ------------ Major sections of the FAQ are divided by double lines (====). Minor sections and other divisions are separated by single lines (----). Major topics use a "* " as a leader. Minor topics use a "- " as a leader. This should simplify searching for topics. = ====================================================================== Table of Contents: ------------------ * Introduction, or "What's this all about?" - Typography * How do I get the FAQ? - Literate Programming FAQ - FWEB FAQ * Is there a newsgroup? (The comp.programming.literate newsgroup) * What internet nodes are of interest to literate programmers? * What is literate programming? * How do I begin literate programming? * What literate programming tools are available and where are they? - APLWEB - AWEB - CLiP - CWEB - FunnelWeb - FWEB - IMPACT - lit2x - Literate Programmer's Workshop (LPW) - MapleWEB - MWEB (Schrod/Detig) - MWEB (Sewell) - noweb - nuweb - ProTeX - RWEB - SchemeWEB - Spidery WEB - WEB - WinWordWEB * Are there other tools I should know about? - C2LaTeX - c2cweb - c2man - cnoweb - Fold2web - FunnelWeb mode - noweb.el - nuweb.el - TIE - Web mode * What other resources are available? - World Wide Web - TeX Resources - Virtual Coursework * Are there any code examples? - Examples included with developer's tools - Cameron Smith's KR-CWEB - Stanford GraphBase * Bibliographies. * How to anonymously ftp. * Acknowledgements. * End notes. = ====================================================================== * How do I get the FAQ? ----------------------- - Literate Programming FAQ -------------------------- You have many ways to get a current copy of this FAQ. One is to use anonymous ftp (if you don't know how, see a later section in this FAQ) to connect to one of the Comprehensive TeX Arvchive Network (CTAN) sites or the Literate Programming Archive and retrieve a copy of the file. Open an ftp connection to one of the CTAN sites and retrieve the file: help/LitProg-FAQ (For more information on CTAN and the literate programming archive, see the section below entitled "Internet Nodes of Interest to Literate Programmers.") An alternative is to use the fileserver at Sam Houston State University (SHSU). Send a message to FILESERV@SHSU.EDU and include in your message: SENDME LITPROG.FAQ The file server will forward a copy of the file to you via email. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - FWEB FAQ ---------- Marcus Speh maintains the FWEB FAQ. The current version number is 1.29. It can be retrieved in the same way as this FAQ; either by anonymous ftp or through the SHSU file server. On the SHSU server, the file name is FAQ.FWEB. Invoke your ftp software, open a connection to NIORD.SHSU.EDU [192.92.115.8], attach to the directory FAQ, and transfer the file FAQ.FWEB. Alternatively, send a message to the file server, FILESERV@SHSU.EDU, and include the following text in a one line message: SENDME FAQ.FWEB The file server will send the current version of the file via email. The FWEB FAQ exists in various formats, including HyperText (see other resources below). In Europe, the complete distribution can also be obtained from ftp.desy.de [131.169.10.115] in directory /pub/faq/web/fweb/. It is also available from the literate programming archive (LPA) in the directory LPA/Documentation/faq/fweb (see the references to LPA below for more information). Also, Marcus Speh is looking for someone willing to take over the FWEB FAQ. The text of his email message follows... "Please add to the FWEB FAQ the note that I am looking for someone to take the maintenance of the FAQ over - I am ready to assist in any way whatsoever, including tons of mail, notes for v1.29->v1.30, Texinfo sources, a WWW server and Hypertextification etc." If you're interested, send mail to marcus@x4u2.desy.de and express your willingness to serve. = ====================================================================== * Is there a newsgroup? ----------------------- One of the most important resources is the literate programming newsgroup, comp.programming.literate. You can read this newsgroup using your standard reader. Altenatively, the newsgroup is gated to a mailing list hosted by George Greenwade and Sam Houston State University. You can subscribe by sending mail to the list-server, LISTSERV@SHSU.EDU, and include in the message one line of text: SUBSCRIBE LITPROG "your name in quotes" The list is unmoderated; messages sent to litprog@shsu.edu are automatically distributed to all subscribers and cross-posted to comp.programming.literate. Archives of the mailing list and newsgroup are maintained on niord.shsu.edu [192.92.115.8] in the directory litprog. = ====================================================================== * What internet nodes are of interest to literate programmers? -------------------------------------------------------------- The principal nodes of interest to literate programmers are the Literate Programming Archive (LPA hereafter) and the CTAN (Comprehensive TeX Archive Network). The Literate Programming Archive (LPA) is: Node: ftp.th-darmstadt.de [130.83.55.75] Directory: programming/literate-programming Notes: Fastest response during off-U.S. [yep] business hours. The CTAN sites are: ftp host IP CTAN root Institution and Sponsor ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ftp.tex.ac.uk 134.151.79.32 pub/archive Aston Univ./UK TeX U.G. ftp.dante.de 129.206.100.192 soft/tex DANTE e.V. ftp.shsu.edu 192.92.115.10 tex-archive Sam Houston State Univ. Other nodes and directories of interest include: Node: niord.shsu.edu [192.92.115.8] Directory: various (do some snooping!) Notes: Has a gopher server. Node: ftp.desy.de [131.169.10.115] Directory: pub/web. Various documents, samples, and the FWEB FAQ. Notes: Has a www server, http://info.desy.de:80/ = ====================================================================== * What is Literate Programming? ------------------------------- Literate programming is the combination of documentation and source together in a fashion suited for reading by human beings. In fact, literate programs should be enjoyable reading, even inviting! (Sorry Bob, I couldn't resist!) In general, literate programs combine source and documentation in a single file. Literate programming tools then parse the file to produce either readable documentation or compilable source. The WEB style of literate programming was created by D.E. Knuth during the development of his TeX typsetting software. All the original work revolves around a particular literate programming tool called WEB. Knuth says: The philosophy behind WEB is that an experienced system programmer, who wants to provide the best possible documentation of his or her software products, needs two things simultaneously: a language like TeX for formatting, and a language like C for programming. Neither type of language can provide the best documentation by itself; but when both are appropriately combined, we obtain a system that is much more useful than either language separately. The structure of a software program may be thought of as a web that is made up of many interconnected pieces. To document such a program we want to explain each individual part of the web and how it relates to its neighbours. The typographic tools provided by TeX give us an opportunity to explain the local structure of each part by making that structure visible, and the programming tools provided by languages such as C or Fortran make it possible for us to specify the algorithms formally and unambigously. By combining the two, we can develop a style of programming that maximizes our ability to perceive the structure of a complex piece of software, and at the same time the documented programs can be mechanically translated into a working software system that matches the documentation. Another author (Eric W. van Ammers) wrote me a short article treating his opinions on literate programming. The text follows: First observation on LP About 90% of the disussion on this list is about problems with applying some WEB-family member to a particular programming language or a special documentation situation. This is ridiculous, I think. Let me explain shortly why... Lemma 1: I have proposed for many years that programming has nothing to do with programming langauges, i.e. a good programmer makes good programs in any language (given some time to learn the syntax) and a bad programmer will never make a good program, no matter the language he uses (today many people share this view, fortunately). Lemma 2: Literate Programming has (in a certain way not yet completely understood) to do with essential aspects of programming. Conclusion 1: A LP-tool should be independent of programming language. Lemma 3: It seems likely that the so called BOOK FORMAT PARADIGM [ref. 1] plays an important role in making literate programs work. Lemma 4: There are very many documentation systems currently being used to produce documents in the BOOK FORMAT. Conclusion 2: A LP-tool should be independent of the documentation system that the program author whishes to use. My remark some time ago that we should discuss the generic properties of an LP-tool was based on the above observation. References: [1] Paul W. Oman and Curtus Cook. Typographical style is more than cosmetic. CACM 33, 5, 506-520 (May 1990) Second observation on LP The idea of a literate program as a text book should be extendend even further. I would like to see a literate program as an (in)formal argument of the correctness of the program. Thus a literate program should be like a textbook on mathematicics. A mathematical textbook explains a theory in terms of lemma and theorems. But the proofs are never formal in the sense that they are obtaind by symbol manipulation of a proof checker. Rather the proofs are by so called "informal rigour", i.e. by very precise and unambiguous sentences in a natural language. Eric W. van Ammers Department of Computer Science Wageningen Agricultural University Dreijenplein 2 E-mail: ammers@rcl.wau.nl 6703 HB Wageningen voice: +31 (0)8370 83356/84154 The Netherlands fax: +31 (0)8370 84731 = ====================================================================== * How do I begin literate programming? -------------------------------------- A recommended book is D.E. Knuth's collection of articles (1992) "Literate Programming," Center for the Study of Language and Information, Stanford University, ISBN 0-937073-80-6 (pbk). This book gives insight into Knuth's thoughts as he developed the web system of literate programming (and TeX for typesetting). It does not document methods for literate programming. A recommended book is Wayne Sewell's (1989) "Weaving a Program: Literate Programming in WEB," Van Nostrand Reinhold, ISBN 0-442-31946-0 (pbk). This book focuses on using Knuth's web system. Some talk exists in the newsgroup/mailing list for a Usenet University course in literate programming. I'm sure discussion of this topic will be welcomed. If you are interested, please participate. = ====================================================================== * What literate programming tools are available and where are they? ------------------------------------------------------------------- A significant number of tools for literate programming are available. Most have been ported from their original systems, so support multiple computer platforms. If you are the developer of such a tool, and would like to make the software freely available, please send me email and I'll reply with a form (like those below) for you to fill in. (Or short-circuit the process and kludge a form from below. :-) - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - APLWEB -------- Developer: Christoph von Basum Version: Unknown Hardware: MSDOS Languages: IBM APL2 and STSC APL Formatter: Plain TeX Availability: Anonymous ftp from: LPA:/apl watserv1.uwaterloo.ca:/languages/apl/aplweb Readme: Unknown Description: None available. Support: Unknown Note: The status of this particular package is unknown. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - AWEB ------ Developer: Unknown Version: Unknown Hardware: Unknown Languages: Ada Formatter: Unknown Availability: Anonymous ftp from: LPA:/ada/web Readme: Unknown Description: None available Support: Not supported. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - CLiP ------ Developer: E.W. van Ammers and M.R. Kramer Version: Unknown Hardware: Vax/VMS, Unix, and MS-DOS Languages: Any programming language. Formatter: Any formatter (TeX, LaTeX, Troff, Runoff, etc) or any wordprocessor including WYSIWYG systems (Word Perfect, Win Word, Ami Pro, Word, etc.) Availability: Anonymous ftp from: sun01.info.wau.nl:/CLIP/ms_dos MS-DOS version sun01.info.wau.nl:/CLIP/vax_vms VAX/VMS version CTAN:/web/clip LPA:/machines/ms-dos LPA:/machines/vax Readme: With bundle above Description: CLiP does not use explicite commands to perform the extraction process. Rather it recognizes pseudostatemens written as comments in the programming language in question. CLiP distinguishes pseudostatments from ordinary comments because the former comply with a a particular style. This style can be adjusted to suit virtually any programming language. The CLiP approach to LP makes the system extremely versatile. It is independent of programming language and text processing environment. We designed CLiP to be compatible with hypertext systems as well but we have not yet experimented with this form of documentation. Features: + CLiP imposes virtually no limitations on the text-processing system used to produce the documentation. If the text-processor supports these items you can + structure the documentation according to your own taste. + include drawings, pictures, tables etc. + disclose your documentatio my means of X-ref tables, Indexes, Table of contents, Table of tables, Table of figures, etc. + typeset the documented code. + Extracts any number of modules from a maximum of 64 source files. + No pretty-printing. Code from the source files is copied "as is" to the module. + Appearance of code segments in the documentation matches those of the modules to ease the identification of code segements. + Supports partially specified data types. + Comprehensive user manual (preliminary version) and technical description. - No automatic generation of a X-ref table for program identifiers. Support: Bugs, problems and assistance by e-mail: ammers@rcl.wau.nl - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - CWEB ------ Developer: Silvio Levy and D.E. Knuth Version: 3.0 Hardware: Unix systems (dos and amiga ports available) Languages: C and C++ Formatter: Plain TeX and LaTeX. Availability: Anonymous ftp from: labrea.stanford.edu:/pub/cweb LPA:/c.c++ CTAN:/web/c_cpp/cweb DOS version in CTAN:/web/c_cpp/cwb30p8c DOS version in LPA:/machines/ms-dos Amiga version CTAN:/web/c_cpp/AmigaCWEB Mac port of CTANGLE in LPA:/machines/mac LaTeX support in LPA:/c.c++ Readme: Bundled with above Description: No description provided. Support: Bugs to levy@math.berkeley.edu Note: A fork of CWEB 3.x was developed by Marc van Leeuwen which implements several changes to CWEB. It is available for anonymous ftp from ftp.cwi.nl:pub/cweb. The principle changes are: - Scans include files for typedef definitions - Grammar and formatting rules are well separated, allowing for run-time selection of a rule set (via command line option) - New manual. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - FunnelWeb ----------- Developer: Ross N. Williams: ross@guest.adelaide.edu.au Version: Unknown Hardware: MSDOS, Mac, VMS, Sun. Other ports reported. Languages: No restrictions. Formatter: Plain TeX for printing. Otherwise, no restrictions. Availability: Anonymous ftp from: CTAN:/web/funnelweb LPA:/independent ftp.adelaide.edu.au:/pub/funnelweb Readme: With bundle above. Description: FunnelWeb is a production-quality literate-programming tool that emphasises simplicity and reliability. Everything about FunnelWeb, from the simplicity of its language to the comprehensive tutorial in the user's manual, has been designed to make this as simple, as practical, and as usable a tool as possible. Features: + Provides a simple macro preprocessor facility. + Can produce typeset documentation. + Runs on Sun, VMS VAX, Macintosh, PC, and others. + Portable C source code distributed under GNU licence. + Comprehensive user's manual including tutorial. + Programming-language independent. + Can generate multiple output files. + Allows complete control over the output text. + Regression test suite with over 200 tests. + Fully worked example (in /pub/funnelweb/examples). - Requires TeX to produce typeset documentation. - Typesets program code using TT font only. Support: No formal support available. Mailing list maintained with about 50 subscribers. Informal assistance available from mailing list. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - FWEB ------ Developer: John A. Krommes Version: 1.30a (1.40 for the experienced, patient, and brave) Hardware: Unix, VMS, and DOS platforms (anything with ANSI C) Languages: C, C++, Fortran-77, Fortran-90, Ratfor, TeX; also, a language-independent mode. Formatter: Plain TeX and LaTeX. Availability: Anonymous ftp from: ftp.pppl.gov:/pub/fweb CTAN:/web/fweb LPA:/fweb DOS version in LPA:/machines/ms-dos Readme: In bundle with above. Description: It also has a well-developed user's manual and its own FAQ (see above). Beginning with 1.40, documentation is maintained in gnu texinfo format. It runs on most platforms: VMS, PC, UNIX, and pretty much anything that the GNU C compiler (GCC) is supported for. Features: + Processes multiple languages during a single run (so one can mix C and Fortran, for example). + Language-independent mode (v1.40). + Ability to turn off pretty-printing (v1.40). + Built-in Ratfor translator. + Built-in macro preprocessor (closely follows ANSI C, with extensions). + A style file that allows the user to adjust many parameters and behavior patterns of FWEB. + Various operator-overloading features that provide additional pretty-printing capabilities to languages such as C++ and Fortran-90. + Numerous miscellaneous features and command-line options. Support: Bug reports and suggestions to krommes@princeton.edu - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - IMPACT -------- Developer: Timothy Larkin, from Levy/Knuth CWEB 3.1 Version: 1.0 Hardware: Macintosh; requires AppleEvents. Languages: C, C++ Formatter: TeX Availability: CTAN archives Readme: A short readme file is included in the SEA archive. Description: IMPACT implements CTangle from the Levy/Knuth CWEB 3.1. It operates as a foreground program, tangling files selected from the Mac File Picker. Or it can operate in the background, tangling files in response to odoc events sent by other applications, such as editors. Support: I welcome any reports of bugs. The product will be updated as new versions of the CWEB appear. Other features may be added as users suggest them. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - lit2x ------- Developer: Unknown Version: Unknown Hardware: Unknown Languages: Unknown Formatter: Unknown Availability: Anonymous ftp from: LPA:/independent Readme: Unknown Description: None available Support: Unknown - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - Literate Programmer's Workshop (LPW) -------------------------------------- Developer: Norbert Lindenberg Version: 1.1 Hardware: Apple Macintosh Languages: C++, Object Pascal & others Formatter: self-contained WYSIWYG system Availability: Anonymous ftp from: LPA:/machines/mac CTAN:/web/lpw ftp.apple.com:/pub/literate.prog Readme: With bundle above. Also comes with 38-page manual. Description: The Literate Programming Workshop is an environment for the integrated development of program source text and documentation in combined documents. It consists of a WYSIWYG word processor based on a style sheet approach, a mechanism to extract parts of the text in a document, and a project management system that handles multi-document projects. The system is designed to be used in conjunction with the Macintosh Programmer's Workshop: it prepares raw source text for the MPW compilers, accepts MPW error messages, and shows them in the context of the original documents. Automatic indexing and hypertext features allow for easy access to both source text and documentation. LPW is shareware. Support: Bugs, problems, and questions to lpw@aol.com. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - MapleWEB ---------- Developer: Unknown Version: Unknown Hardware: Unknown Languages: Maple Formatter: Unknown Availability: Anonymous ftp from: LPA:/maple Readme: Unknown Description: None Support: Unknown - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - MWEB (Schrod/Detig) --------------------- Developer: Joachim Schrod Version: Unknown Hardware: Unknown Languages: Modula-2 Formatter: Unknown Availability: Anonymous ftp from: LPA:/modula-2 Readme: Unknown Description: None Support: Not supported. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - MWEB (Sewell) --------------- Developer: Sewell Version: Unknown Hardware: Unknown Languages: Modula-2 Formatter: Unknown Availability: Anonymous ftp from: LPA:/modula-2 Readme: Unknown Description: None Support: Not supported. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - noweb ------- Developer: Norman Ramsey Version: 2.6 Hardware: Unix and DOS platforms. Languages: All programming languages. Formatter: Plain TeX, LaTeX, and HTML (Mosaic) formatters. Availability: Anonymous ftp from: CTAN:/web/noweb LPA:/independent DOS version also in LPA:/machines/ms-dos also bart.kean.edu:/pub/leew Last recourse, use bellcore.com:/pub/norman Readme: With bundle above. Description: noweb is designed to meet the needs of literate programmers while remaining as simple as possible. Its primary advantages are simplicity, extensibility, and language-independence. noweb uses 5 control sequences to WEB's 27. noweb now supports indexing and identifier cross-reference, including hypertext ``hot links'' courtesy of Mosaic. The simple noweb manual is only 2 pages; documenting the full power of noweave and notangle requires another 3 pages. noweb works ``out of the box'' with any programming language, and its formatter-dependent part is a 60-line nawk program. The primary sacrifice relative to WEB is the loss of prettyprinting. Support: email to the author - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - nuweb ------- Developer: Preston Briggs: preston@cs.rice.edu Version: 0.87 Hardware: Unix systems: Sparcs, RS/6000s, HPs; (!) MSDOS and Amiga. Languages: Any programming language or combination of programming languages. Formatter: Latex Availability: Anonymous ftp from: Unix: CTAN:/web/nuweb DOS: CTAN:/web/nuweb-pc LPA:/independent Amiga: CTAN:/web/nuweb/nuweb_ami Amiga: wuarchive.wustl.edu/pub/aminet Readme: Send mail to preston@cs.rice.edu Description: A single program that takes a web file written in a combination of latex and any programming language(s) and produces a latex file that can be pretty printed and a set of files containing code for compilation/interpretation by the appropriate language processors. Strengths include speed, simplicity, multiple languages, nice indices and cross-references, latex. Doesn't require any special macros or macro files. Drawbacks: latex-dependent, no code pretty printing, harder to make indices than cweb. More good stuff: nice support for make, doesn't reformat source files, so they're easy to debug. Lots of control without too much effort. That is, it doesn't do too much! Future directions... Very little change planned, except perhaps refinements in the indexing software. Support: Hack it yourself or send e-mail to preston@cs.rice.edu - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - ProTeX -------- Developer: Eitan Gurari Version: 1.1 (AlProTeX 1.2) Hardware: Any platform with TeX (ProTeX is written in TeX) Languages: Any language Formatter: TeX and LaTeX Availability: Anonymous ftp from: ftp.cis.ohio-state.edu : pub/tex/osu/gurari/ LPA:/independent Readme: Unknown Description: There is a book published on using ProTeX, @Book{Gurari:TLD94, author = "Eitan M. Gurari", title = "{\TeX} and {\LaTeX}: Drawing and Literate Programming", publisher = pub-MH, year = "1994", address = pub-MH:adr, bibdate = "Wed Sep 29 17:55:14 1993", acknowledgement = ack-nhfb, } Support: gurari@cis.ohio-state.edu - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - RWEB ------ Developer: Unknown Version: Unknown Hardware: Unknown Languages: Unknown Formatter: Unknown Availability: Anonymous ftp from: LPA:/reduce Readme: Unknown Description: Web generator in AWK. Support: Unknown - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - SchemeWEB ----------- Developer: John D. Ramsdell Version: 2.1 Hardware: Unix and DOS platforms Languages: Any dialect of Lisp. Formatter: LaTeX. Availability: The Unix version is in the Scheme Repository and it is available via anonymous ftp from: cs.indiana.edu:/pub/scheme-repository/utl/schemeweb.sh LPA:/lisp CTAN:/tex-archive/web/schemeweb The DOS version is part of the PCS/Geneva Scheme system which is available via anonymous ftp from: cui.unige.ch:/pub/pcs LPA:/machines/ms-dos Readme: In bundle with above. Description: SchemeWEB is a Unix filter that allows you to generate both Lisp and LaTeX code from one source file. The generated LaTeX code formats Lisp programs in typewriter font obeying the spacing in the source file. Comments can include arbitrary LaTeX commands. SchemeWEB was originally developed for the Scheme dialect of Lisp, but it can easily be used with most other dialects. Support: Bug reports to ramsdell@mitre.org. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - SpideryWEB ------------ Developer: Norman Ramsey Version: Unknown Hardware: Unix and DOS platforms Languages: Most Algol-like languages, including C, Ada, Pascal, Awk, and many others. Formatter: Plain TeX and latex for text formatters. Availability: Anonymous ftp from: CTAN LPA:/spiderweb Readme: In distribution. Description: A system for building language-dependent WEBs. Spider is frozen; no further development is planned. Support: Bug reports to spider-bugs@oracorp.com. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - WEB ----- Developer: Donald Knuth Version: Unknown Hardware: Unknown Languages: Pascal Formatter: TeX (of course! ;-) Availability: Anonymous ftp from: LPA:/pascal Readme: Unknown Description: This is the original software that started it all. The original TeX processor was written in WEB. Support: None known. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - WinWordWEB ------------ Developer: Lee Wittenberg Version: Unknown Hardware: Needs Microsoft Word for Windows, v.2.x, and, of course, MS-Windows 3.x. Languages: Any programming language. Formatter: Word for Windows 2.x for text formatting and file maintenance. Availability: Anonymous ftp from: bart.kean.edu:pub/leew LPA:/machines/ms-dos World-Wide Web (WWW) Readme: WORDWEB.DOC in the downloadable package describes the system. Description: WinWordWEB is a set of a Word for Windows macros (plus a paragraph style) that provide a crude literate programming environment. The ``look and feel'' of the system is based on Norman Ramsey's noweb, but can easily be modified to suit individual tastes. Support: None. WinWordWEB was written as a prototype to see if a WYSIWYG literate programming system was possible. It is intended as a jumping off point for future work by others. However, the system is surprisingly usable as it stands, and the author is interested in hearing from users (satisfied and dissatisfied). Anyone interested in actively supporting (and improving) the product should contact the author via email. = ====================================================================== * Are there other tools I should know about? -------------------------------------------- First of all, I'll list some not-quite-literate-programming tools. Some may consider these to be pretty-printers. Others may call them literate programming tools. In any event, they don't seem to be quite in the same category as the tools listed above, so I'll include them here. - C2LaTeX --------- Developer: John D. Ramsdell Version: Unknown Hardware: Unix Languages: C Formatter: LaTeX but it's easy to change the formatter. Availability: Anonymous ftp from omnigate.clarkson.edu:/pub/tex/tex-programs/c2latex. Readme: Absent. Documentation is in the C source for c2latex. Description: C2latex provides simple support for literate programming in C. Given a C source file in which the comments have been written in LaTeX, c2latex converts the C source file into a LaTeX source file. It can be used to produce typeset listings of C programs and/or documentation associated with the program. C2latex produces LaTeX source by implementing a small number of rules. A C comment that starts at the beginning of a line is copied unmodified into the LaTeX source file. Otherwise, non-blank lines are surrounded by a pair of formatting commands (\begin{flushleft} and \end{flushleft}), and the lines are separated by \\*. Each non-blank line is formatted using LaTeX's \verb command, except comments within the line are formatted in an \mbox. Support: Send bug reports to ramsdell@mitre.org. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - c2cweb -------- Developer: Werner Lemberg Version: 1.4 Hardware: DOS, OS/2, Unix (gcc) - CWEB source included Languages: C, C++ Formatter: TeX Availability: Anonymous ftp from CTAN:/web/c_cpp/c2cweb Readme: In distribution. Description: c2cweb will transform plain C or C++ code into a CWEB file to get a pretty formatted output. A modified CWEAVE (which transforms the CWEB file into a TeX file, see below) is included also. Support: Werner Lemberg - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - c2man ------- Developer: Graham Stoney Version: 2.0 patchlevel 26 Hardware: Unix, MSDOS, OS/2. Languages: C Formatter: nroff -man, texinfo (requires yacc/byacc/bison, lex/flex, and nroff/groff/texinfo/LaTeX). Availability: Anonymous ftp from ftp.wustl.edu: /usenet/comp.sources.reviewed/volume03/c2man* ftp.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de: /pub/archive/comp.sources/reviewed/c2man* Readme: See distribution. Description: The primary philosophy here is to use the programming language as far as possible to express the programmer's intentions, and to use comments only when the programming language is not sufficiently expressive. A comment can then become part of the language grammar which is recognised by a "documentation compiler". This tool parses a superset of the programming language and can automatically generate documentation in human-readable form by associating the programmer's comments with the objects in the code by their context. Support: Actively supported; mailing list available: send "subscribe c2man " (in the message body) to listserv@research.canon.oz.au. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - cnoweb -------- Developer: Jim Fox Version: 1.4 (January 4, 1991) Hardware: Anything with C and TeX. Languages: C Formatter: Plain TeX. Availability: Anonymous ftp from: CTAN LPA:/c.c++ Readme: Unknown, cnoweb.tex contains documentation. Description: cnoweb is as it's name describes: write C, not web. No tangling or weaving is implemented. Documentation (between standard /* */ delimiteres) is written in TeX. cnoweb provides typesetting of documentation, an table of contents of routines, and pretty-printing of C source. Support: None known. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - Fold2Web ---------- Developer: Bernhard Lang Version: V0.8 Hardware: MSDOS Languages: All (must allow comment lines) Formatter: LaTeX Availability: Anonymous ftp from: kirk.ti1.tu-harburg.de (134.28.41.50) /pub/fold2web/readme /pub/fold2web/fold2web.zip Readme: In distribution Description: The idea behind the Fold2Web tool is the following: A programmer can write his program source with a folding editor and later map the folded source files automatically to WEB-files. The generated WEB-files can then be modified by inserting required documentations. The advantage by starting program developement with original sources is to get short design cycles during the compile/debug steps. By using a folding editor the global structuring information can be already captured in folds during this developement phase. Fold information is typically stored in comment lines and thus will not affect the efficiency of the compile/debug design cycle. Some folding editors and a folding mode for the emacs are available (e.g. see our FUE folding editor for MSDOS machines which is a modified micro emacs. Pick it at kirk in directory /pub/fold2web). After reaching a stable version of a program source its time to convert the source file to a WEB-file and do the program documentation. Fold2Web is written to convert folded source text of any programming language to nuweb files. The folded structure is kept by mapping folds to scraps. Fold markers which differ between languages due to different ways of specifying comments can be configured for each language. Good results can also achived when given but poor documented program sources have to be modified. Such sources can be folded using a folding editor to extract the global structures. This offers a global view to the program structures and help to understand its functionality. Furthermore the program code is not affected, only comment lines are inserted. Once folded the program source can be automatically translated to a WEB document using the above tool. Support: email to lang@tu-harburg.d400.de - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - Funnelweb Mode ---------------- Developer: Daniel Simmons Version: Unknown Availability: Litprog archives (was in email) Anonymous ftp from: ftp.imada.ou.dk Description: The other day I did a quick hack to nuweb.el as included with the nuweb distribution so as to make a funnelweb-mode.el. I've only used it briefly, and I'm sure that it can be improved quite a bit. I've been thinking about adding support for folding on sections, a pull-down menu to select macro definitions (like the recent functions posted to gnu.emacs.sources for a C function definition pull-down menu) and some kind of tags support for funnelweb. Support: Unknown - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - noweb.el ---------- Developer: Bruce Stephens Version: Unknown. Availability: LitProg archives (in an email message). Description: This is a very simple mode I just hacked up. There's a lot wrong with it, but I thought others may be interested, even as it stands. It *requires* text properties, and assumes those used in GNU Emacs 19.22; it'll quite likely work with Lucid Emacs, but I haven't tried it. I use it with auctex8.1 and cc-mode 3.229, both of which are loaded separately (I think my emacs is dumped with them, in fact). The idea is to have one mode (which calls itself c-mode, but actually has LaTeX-mode keybindings) generally (this means that the code is hilighted nicely), and have the code chunks use a different keymap. Support: Email to bruce@liverpool.ac.uk - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - nuweb.el ---------- Developer: Dominique de Waleffe Version: 1.99 Availability: Anonymous ftp from: LPA CTAN Description: Provides a major mode extending Auctex for editing nuweb files. Main features (in 2.0): - Edit scrap bodies in a separate buffer in a different mode (selected using emacs defaults for files, specific indication -*-mode-*-, or a buffer-local variable) - Extends Auctex commands so that nuweb is called before LaTeX, - Easy navigation on scrap definition and use points. - Now creates an imenu (C-M-mouse1) with user index entries, macro definition positions and file definition positions. Support: Email to ddw@sunbim.be - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - TIE ----- Developer: Unknown Version: Unknown Hardware: Unknown Availability: Anonymous ftp from: LPA:/Tools Readme: Unknown Description: This software merges change files. Support: Unknown - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - Web mode ---------- Developer: Bart Childs Version: Unknown Tools supported: web, fweb, cweb, funnelweb Availability: Anonymous ftp from ftp.cs.tamu.edu:pub/tex-web/web/EMACS.web-mode thrain.anu.edu.au:pub/web/EMACS.web-mode Description: This version works with versions 18 and 19 of Emacs to be best of my knowledge. I have cleaned up a number of documentation items ... In the same directory is wm_refcard.tex which is an edited version of the famous one to include some web-mode commands. The files limbo* are related to its use and notice that half them have an uppercase L in them for LaTeX. The setup is based upon the fact that we (I am not alone here) primarily use FWEB for C and Fortran programming. We are using version 1.40 of FWEB although John Krommes warns that it is not mature and the manual is not yet updated. The info files are! We are using LaTeX almost exclusively. That will likely change and we will revert to version 1.30 if the final form of 1.40 cannot return to the simple section numbers and avoid the HORRIBLE LATEX 0.1.7.2.4.6 type section numbers. Support: Unknown = ====================================================================== * What other resources are available? ------------------------------------- - World Wide Web ---------------- An untapped resource (by me anyway ;-) is the World Wide Web. Marcus Speh has expended considerable effort in this regard. If you're connected to WWW, then access: http://info.desy.de:80/user/projects/LitProg.html If you aren't connected to WWW, telnet to info.cern.ch and explore. You can reach Marcus' literate programming pages by typing: go http://info.desy.de:80/user/projects/LitProg.html Help for people who have only Email and neither WWW nor telnet, can be obtained by Email from TEST-LIST@INFO.CERN.CH by sending a message, SEND , for example, SEND http://info.desy.de:80/user/projects/LitProg.html to retrieve the LitProg library page. A help file can be retrieved by sending a message to the list server above with the text HELP in the body of the message. Instructions will be returned by email. For literate programming documents, you can try anonymous ftp to ftp.desy.de [131.169.10.115] and get the file: /pub/userWWW/projects/Announce/LitProg.txt - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - TeX Resources --------------- Another resource of interest to literate programmers is the info-tex mailing list. If you're using (La)TeX as your typsetting system and have access to internet, then you should investigate this mailing list. Mail list service is available through the SHSU list-server. To subscribe, send a message to LISTSERV@SHSU.EDU, and include in the message one line of text: SUBSCRIBE INFO-TEX "your name in quotes" The list is unmoderated; messages sent to info-tex@shsu.edu are automatically distributed to all subscribers and cross-posted to comp.text.tex. Archives of the mailing list and newsgroup are maintained on niord.shsu.edu [192.92.115.8] in the directory info-tex. Another reason the TeX resources should be important is that so many of the literate programming tools rely on either plain TeX or LaTeX as their text formatter. (La)TeX software systems exist for most computing platforms. These systems can be found on CTAN and other major archive sites. Use archie to find them or simply ftp to one of the CTAN sites and browse. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - Virtual Coursework -------------------- Marcus Speh plans an introductory course on Literate Programming on the Internet, part of the first semester of "Global Network Academy" [GNA], a non-profit corporation incorporated in the state of Texas, affilated with the Usenet University project. The texts/sample programs for this class will be made available via the World-Wide Web. A special room on GNA Virtual Campus will be staffed by a consultant in one to two hour shifts. Students with questions can telnet to the virtual campus and ask questions of the staff there. If you are interested in registering for the course either as a student or as a consultant, please contact marcus@x4u.desy.de. You will receive a standard reply message; no further action will be taken until June 94. Interested parties can check the hypertext notes for the completed C++ Course done in a similar fashion, at URL http://info.desy.de:80/pub/uu-gna/html/cc/index.html [Editor's note: Because of workload, Marcus requests that email inquiries be limited to a statement of interest for either a student or consultant position until June 1994.] = ====================================================================== * Are there any code examples? ------------------------------ Examples of web programs are included with the FWEB, CWEB, and noweb distributions. nuweb is written in itself. Cameron Smith converted the K&R calculator program into a literate program. It can be retrieved by anonymous ftp from: niord.shsu.edu [192.92.115.8] directory kr-cweb-sample as krcwsamp.zip or from LPA/Documentation Ross Williams has released a funnelweb example. You can retrieve this file from node ftp.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.40.3] as /pub/funnelweb/examples/except.* This file should be on CTAN as well. Lee Wittenberg has posted a few litprog examples. They are available via anonymous ftp from: bart.kean.edu:/pub/leew/samples.LP The Stanford GraphBase is a large collection of programs by Don Knuth for doing all kinds of computations and games with graphs; it is written in (Levy/Knuth) CWEB. More details in the distribution. It is available via anonymous ftp from: labrea.stanford.edu:/pub/sgb = ====================================================================== * Bibliographies ---------------- Nelson Beebe has collected an extensive bibliography treating literate programming. His work is available for anonymous ftp from ftp.math.utah.edu [128.110.198.2] in directory /pub/tex/bib as files: litprog.bib litprog.ltx litprog.twx. Although I have not verified this, LPA is an alternate source for these files. Note that they are updated frequently (Nelson says several times each week), so be sure to get a fresh copy before extensive use. Joachim Schrod indicates that these files may be updated daily and can be retrieved via anonymous ftp at LPA/documentation. = ====================================================================== * How to anonymously ftp ------------------------ Pretty much everything mentioned here is available by anonymous FTP. FAQ lists cross-posted to news.answers and rec.answers can be gotten from rtfm.mit.edu [18.181.0.24], under /pub/usenet/news.answers or under /pub/usenet/more.specific.group.name "anonymous FTP" is just a way for files to be stored where anyone can retrieve them over the Net. For example, to retrieve the latest version of the literate programming FAQ, do the following: > ftp rtfm.mit.edu /* connect to the site; message follows */ > anonymous /* type this when it asks for your name */ > /* type your address as the password */ > cd /pub/usenet /* go to the directory you want to be */ > cd comp.programming.literate /* one level down (no slash). */ > dir /* look at what's there */ > get literate-progamming-faq /* get the file; case-sensitive */ > quit /* stop this mysterious thing */ If your FTP program complains that it doesn't know where the site you want to use is, type the numerical address instead of the sitename: > ftp 18.181.0.24 /* connect with numerical address */ If you don't have ftp access, send e-mail to mail-server@rtfm.mit.edu with the single word "help" in the body of the message. Getting binary files (executables, or any compressed files) is only slightly more difficult. You need to set binary mode inside FTP before you transfer the file. > binary /* set binary transfer mode */ > ascii /* set back to text transfer mode */ FAQs and spoiler lists are generally ascii files; everything else is generally binary files. Some common extensions on binary files in archive sites are: .Z Compressed; extract with uncompress .tar.Z Compressed 'tape archive'; uncompress then untar or tar -xvf .gz or .z Gnu gzip; use gunzip (available from prep.gnu.ai.mit.edu) .sit (Mac) StufIt archive .zip Extract with Zip or Unzip .zoo Yet another archive/compress program .lhe (Amiga) ? .lzh Lha archive program. .arj (PC) Arj archive program. .exe (PC) Sometimes self-extracting archives-just execute them. .uue or .UUE Transfer as text file; use uudecode to convert to binary .hqx (Mac) BinHex format; transfer in text mode Generic help can be found in the FAQs of comp.binaries. for how to transfer, extract, and virus-check binary files. (At rtfm.mit.edu) If you can't FTP from your site, use one of the following ftp-by-mail servers: ftpmail@decwrl.dec.com ftpmail@src.doc.ic.ac.uk ftpmail@cs.uow.edu.au ftpmail@grasp.insa-lyon.fr For complete instructions, send a message reading "help" to the server. If you don't know exactly what you're looking for, or exactly where it is, there are programs and servers that can help you. For more info, send e-mail to mail-server@rtfm.mit.with with the body of the message reading send usenet/news.answers/finding-sources Thanks to Aliza R. Panitz (the "buglady") for this text. I copied it verbatim from her post on faq-maintainers with only minor modifications. = ====================================================================== * Acknowledgements ------------------ This document would not have happened without the help of many people. Among them are Marcus Speh, George Greenwade, Rob Beezer, Joachim Schrod, Piet van Oostrum, and Ross N. Williams. A special thanks to Aliza R. Panitz for the text describing how to execute an anonymous ftp for files of interest. Any omissions from these acknowledgements should be considered an act of stupidity on my part. Of course, the authors of literate programming tools mentioned above all play a vital role in the vitality of literate programming. Furthermore, participants in the comp.programming.literate newsgroup (and associated mailing list) all contributed in various fashions. Thank all of you. = ====================================================================== * End notes ----------- This document will continue to evolve. I'm planning on adding entries for additional literate programming tools and will expand the sections on examples as more examples become available. Tools I will include are WEB (the original pascal version) for starters. Others will be added as I find and document them. Omission of a particular tool should not be considered a snub in any sense--simply an error or oversight on my part. = End of File ========================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 09:03:44 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu Subject: C/C++ COURSES SOUGHT From: oliver.harris@freddy.supernet.ab.ca (Oliver Harris) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, oliver.harris@FREDDY.SUPERNET.AB.CA Message-ID: <50.88.2986@freddy.supernet.ab.ca> Date: Mon, 14 Nov 1994 18:54:00 -0700 To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU TRYING TO LOCATE GOOD CORRESPONDENCE COURSES IN C or C++ programming; systems analysis & design; and etc., I'm interested in certificate/diploma programs through college/university/tech schools - anyone know the names/cities/& states of some good ones ? THESE MUST BE AVAILABLE THROUGH CORRESPONDENCE PLEASE ?? Fellow Canadians relax, I've already shopped from Nova Scotia to Victoria.... Also, is it really necessary for beginners to study Pascal first in order to get the flow charting and programmers basics down pat first,... I was hoping I could just jump right into C or C++ on some sort of simlar beginners level - everyone in Canada seems to have these "under developement". Thanks a 1/4 million for your time, Oliver. oliver.harris@freddy.supernet.ab.ca * RM 1.2 * Eval Day 1 * OLIVER HARRIS, po box 1316, Edmonton, Canada, T5J 2M8. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 09:03:47 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: dak@messua.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (David Kastrup) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, dak@MESSUA.INFORMATIK.RWTH-AACHEN.DE Subject: Re: Looking for a C/C++ Programmer Date: 15 Nov 1994 10:04:52 GMT Message-ID: <3aa144$i2p@urmel.informatik.rwth-aachen.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU dgall@aol.com (DGall) writes: >In article , >al2s@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Arie Lapidot) writes: >>> >o C and C++ programming skills (4+ years) >o Strong mathematical and analytical background >o BS (or higher) in mathematics, CS, or engineering > If you do not possess the following traits, please do not bother to >respond:<< >Tell your friend there are many talented programmers who didn't complete >their BS degrees. I work for the regional Bell company, and there is a >C++ genius here who never completed his BS degree, but is by FAR the best >programmer in the group. By the same token, I know of some guys who barely >graduated, and did just enough to get by in programming courses, yet do >have their BS degrees in CS. Good luck, On the other hand, I know one very talented fellow at an engineers outfit who has also not "yet" completed his equivalent to a BS here (Vordiplom, which is not a separate title but compulsary for Diplom). He is really good, but has no discipline at all at doing things he is not currently interested in, so has not completed courses he does not fancy. Unfortunately, in his work his behaviour is similar. Although he can get complicated matters done, he mostly balks at simple things. Most projects of his reach the 90% done mark in remarkably short time, then freeze. Others have to finish them (if you want to avoid him only playing around with different things while the rest is due, being totally unproductive), but as he does not document anything really (he will document after he is finished, what he seldom is), others are rather ineffective at picking up the bits and pieces he has produced. Needless to say, this "talented guy who didn't complete his BS degree" is slowly but surely working his way out of his job, even though he does not get BS or MS payment. It is not the qualification for his job he is lacking, it is the discipline. It would really not have mattered, in a case like his, what degree he would have (be it medicine, physics, whatever) as he had his qualifications independent of his studies. However, being able to complete a degree says something about steadiness at work. This is different if someone is as good as to get a *real* job with real payment and stops his studies completely. He, however, is still planning to finish (now being inscribed for 11 years; you are supposed to get your Vordiplom at 4 terms (2 years) and finish *Diplom* in about 9 terms. Average is about 13, I believe). So if you have someone flunking out, better check his attitude towards work. You might be off better considerably with someone failing in spite of trying hard, than with one failing due to not working at all. -- David Kastrup dak@pool.informatik.rwth-aachen.de Tel: +49-241-72419 Fax: +49-241-79502 Goethestr. 20, D-52064 Aachen -- David Kastrup dak@pool.informatik.rwth-aachen.de Tel: +49-241-72419 Fax: +49-241-79502 Goethestr. 20, D-52064 Aachen ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 14:26:55 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 17:18:17 +0000 (WET) From: Guido Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, ljp@COVENTRY.AC.UK To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, oliver.harris@FREDDY.SUPERNET.AB.CA Subject: Re: C/C++ COURSES SOUGHT Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 14 Nov 1994, Oliver Harris wrote: > > Also, is it really necessary for beginners to study Pascal first in order to > get the flow charting and programmers basics down pat first,... > I was hoping I could just jump right into C or C++ on some sort of simlar > beginners level - everyone in Canada seems to have these "under developement". > I think that if you have a knowledge of any comp language then you can apply that knowledge in the learning of an other comp language. If you learn Pascal first then you will find that C is like a breath of fresh air. At least when I was learning Modula2 after 10 years of C, I found Modula2 to be extremely restrictive. The trouble with C and C++ is that you can do more with them, and therein lies the rub, it can be like tightrope walking across niagra falls without a safety line. If in C you compose a line of code that is syntacticly correct the compiler will generate code for it. Thus you can take a piece of text - tell the compiler that it is code and call it as a subroutine. Pascal carries with it a load of baggage which checks for errors at runtime and makes it difficult for you to do things it considers you shouldn't. With C you are on your own and much nearer to the machine. Gosh there are times when I translate a piece of C code into assembler statements and count the clock cycles. But then I came to C from Assembler and tend to treat C as a portable assembly language. Flow charts (I think you mean data flow diagrams) are a help (but how much of one is hard to say) on the one hand they should help you to partition your program and give it a logical structure, on the other hand for most small programs you can do that in your head, and for large programs you don't know have enough details for partitioning the program until you have partitioned it! But managers like the pretty pictures and lecturers find them easy to mark. I'm just minding this tinderbox for someone else, honest, officer. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 22:21:48 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 04:03:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Stephen Boyan (510) 926-3291/fax 926-3604" Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, BOYANST@NCAL.KAIPERM.ORG Subject: Re: C/C++ COURSES SOUGHT To: litprog@shsu.edu >>> The trouble with C and C++ is that you can do more with them, and therein lies the rub, it can be like tightrope walking across niagra falls without a safety line. If in C you compose a line of code that is syntacticly correct the compiler will generate code for it. Thus <<< When I write a program in C I use lint - mine is PC Lint for C/C++ from Gimpel Software - to check it before compilation. Lint is a static analyzer that looks for dangerous situations in the code, and is my safety net. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 01:35:41 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: iec@netcom11.netcom.com (Interstate Electronics Corp) Subject: LaTeX to html converters? Message-ID: Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, mre@lpf.org (Mike Elliott) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 07:10:34 GMT To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU After having mucked about in Funnelweb and nuweb for a couple of years now, I'm curious about how some of the programs would look in html. The resuls of merely changing the suffix of a file from .w to .hw (I think) so as to make nuweb produce html were, at best, uninspiring when viewed with lynx. Can I do better? I heard that there exist LaTeX to html converters somewhere. If anyone is doing this sort of thing on a regular basis I'd appreciate a pointer or two. -- -- ======================================================================== Mike Elliott mre@emerald.ccss.com mre@lpf.org ======================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 07:32:23 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu Date: Wed, 16 Nov 94 08:31:46 EST From: seskfj43@ibmmail.com Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, seskfj43@IBMMAIL.COM To: litprog@shsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Subject: Re: C/C++ COURSES SOUGHT > >o Also, is it really necessary for beginners to study Pascal first in order to >o get the flow charting and programmers basics down pat first,... >o I was hoping I could just jump right into C or C++ on some sort of simlar >o beginners level - everyone in Canada seems to have these "under developement" >o > I think that if you have a knowledge of any comp language > then you can apply that knowledge in the learning of an > other comp language. If you learn Pascal first then you > will find that C is like a breath of fresh air... > > The trouble with C and C++ is that you can do more with > them, and therein lies the rub, it can be like tightrope > walking across niagra falls without a safety line... > > Flow charts (I think you mean data flow diagrams) are > a help (but how much of one is hard to say)... Programming language knowledge does help when you are trying to learn (yet) another programming language, but this is just a minor aspect of the problem. Programming knowledge in general is just another thing. The time when a programmer was a programmer is gone. As a young Mechanical Engineering student in the late sixties, my first contact with programming was, of course, through FORTRAN. I learned how to get things done, but I did NOT learn how to program. Later on, I learned how to program in Pascal (a really pedagogical language). Now I apply this knowledge to Modula-2 or even FORTRAN, with the enormous gain that I know what I'm doing and why. As a technical programmer I tend to agree with Prof. Niklaus Wirth when he says in "Programming in Modula-2": `` High level languages encourage and even enforce the programmer to conceive his programs in a structured fashion. Structured statements provide a high degree of order and perspicuity of the programmed algorithmic text. Structured data declarations allow a high level of abstraction in the organization of a program's data and their organization in terms that are appropriate for the problem at hand. The principal advantage is additional safety against mistakes, because structure provides redundancy which can (and must) be used by implementations - in particular compilers - to detect inconsistencies of the program which become manifest as violations of language rules. In this respect, the concept of data types is particularly powerful and is therefore the primary characteristic of high-level programming languages.'' I do NOT "find that C is like a breath of fresh air". My system manager does, and I agree with him, as long as it regards HIS work. I discourage technical programmers from using C and the like, as readability, maintainability and safety are much more important for us. As most members of this discussion group know, the main consumer of a program is not really a computer but the poor humans that must maintain it. By the way, I gave up flow charts for logical level diagrams about ten years ago, and none of them is of any real interest to a literate programmer. All opinions expressed are not those of SKF and not necessarily my own. Rafael Amen Phone: +46 31 371487 SKF Sverige AB Fax: +46 31 372267 "Los 4 puntos cardinales DPD/D2s-3 MAIL: GOTV01::G732826 son 3: Norte y Sur." S-415 50 Goteborg MEST: DSVGOT:G732826 Mau-mau SWEDEN email: seskfj43@ibmmail.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 11:05:23 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: sean_boyle@MENTORG.COM (Sean Boyle x1542) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, sean_boyle@MENTORG.COM Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 09:05:21 -0800 Message-ID: <9411161705.AA08231@shiloh.mentorg.com> To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, mre@lpf.org (Mike Elliott) Subject: LaTeX to html converters? References: Yes, I did see that there are some LaTeX -> HTML converters available. I saw them at wuarchive.wustl.edu:/packages/TeX/support (I think). I thought about that, and I used FunnelWeb first, then nuweb and the output they produce is very much under the control of the processor. I wonder how well ProTeX would do? I use it now exclusively as it doesn't require anything other than LaTeX to run (no external programmes) and one could probably more easily generate LaTeX which is HTML friendly. Perhaps Eitan Gurari (the author of ProTeX) could be talked into enhancing ProTeX with HTML file output as an option... Interstate Electronics Corp writes: > After having mucked about in Funnelweb and nuweb for a couple of years > now, I'm curious about how some of the programs would look in html. > The resuls of merely changing the suffix of a file from .w to .hw (I > think) so as to make nuweb produce html were, at best, uninspiring > when viewed with lynx. > > Can I do better? I heard that there exist LaTeX to html converters > somewhere. If anyone is doing this sort of thing on a regular basis > I'd appreciate a pointer or two. > > -- > -- > ======================================================================== > Mike Elliott mre@emerald.ccss.com mre@lpf.org > ======================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 11:16:51 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: maalkadh@rodan.syr.edu (It is I) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, maalkadh@RODAN.SYR.EDU Subject: swizzling Date: 16 Nov 1994 14:59:09 GMT Message-ID: <3ad6nt$oed@newstand.syr.edu> To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU Hi I was wondering if anyone out there had any experience in OOP databases. Specifically in Object faulting, Object fault traping and in swizzling regular memory pointers into persistent ids and back?. If anyone has ever worked on anything like this or knows any good sources of IMPLIMENTATION DETAILS and not just theory, please let me know. THank you. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 16:25:16 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: viola@hlrz16 (Joerg Viola ) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, viola@HLRZ16 Subject: noweb: Fortran indexing Message-ID: Date: 16 Nov 94 19:37:37 GMT To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU Hi! Has someone hacked up indexing code for FORTRAN yet ? Thanks for response! joerg -- Joerg Viola | email: j.viola@kfa-juelich.de 0049 241 807060 | talk: viola@hlrz16.hlrz.kfa-juelich.de 0049 241 81099 | finger: viola@hlrserv.hlrz.kfa-juelich.de -- Joerg Viola | email: j.viola@kfa-juelich.de 0049 241 807060 | talk: viola@hlrz16.hlrz.kfa-juelich.de 0049 241 81099 | finger: viola@hlrserv.hlrz.kfa-juelich.de ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 20:25:25 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: Jamie@cybernetics.net (Jamie Young) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, Jamie@CYBERNETICS.NET Subject: WANTED Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 11:30:20 Message-ID: To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU I'm looking for a C program that utilizes AVL tree. Anyone with info email at Jamie@cybernetics.net Thank you ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 23:32:20 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu Date: Thu, 17 Nov 1994 05:23:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Stephen Boyan (510) 926-3291/fax 926-3604" Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, BOYANST@NCAL.KAIPERM.ORG Subject: RE: - no subject (01HJJIASZD0I988XRQ) - To: litprog@shsu.edu >>> `` High level languages encourage and even enforce the programmer to conceive his programs in a structured fashion. Structured statements <<< Is C a high-level language? This may be why it's not "a breath of fresh air" in the context of this thread. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 17 Nov 1994 17:40:23 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu Date: Thu, 17 Nov 1994 23:32:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Stephen Boyan (510) 926-3291/fax 926-3604" Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, BOYANST@NCAL.KAIPERM.ORG Subject: C To: LitProg@SHSU.edu >>> `` High level languages encourage and even enforce the programmer to conceive his programs in a structured fashion. Structured statements <<< Is C a high-level language? This may be why it's not "a breath of fresh air" in the context of this thread. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 08:53:08 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: azboyle@its.dundee.ac.uk (ANDRE BOYLE) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, azboyle@ITS.DUNDEE.AC.UK Subject: interrupts, memory, etc. I NEED HELP! Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 13:08:01 GMT Message-ID: Keywords: interrupts, memory, directories, password protecting To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU Can anyone tell me how to read a variable which is a string from memory at DS:DX. This will most probably have to use the MEM command, but how? MEM will give me a BYTE type result. This must then be converted to a CHAR and then subsequently to a string. But EMM386 constantly throws up error messages! WHY? What am I doing wrong? Someone please help me!?! Thanks a lot! (Andre) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 14:32:05 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: theedge@rbg.informatik.th-darmstadt.de (felix gaertner) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, theedge@RBG.INFORMATIK.TH-DARMSTADT.DE Subject: Re: LaTeX to html converters? Date: 18 Nov 1994 14:24:15 GMT Message-ID: <3aidef$n14@rs18.hrz.th-darmstadt.de> To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU In article , iec@netcom11.netcom.com (Interstate Electronics Corp) writes: > I heard that there exist LaTeX to html converters > somewhere. If anyone is doing this sort of thing on a regular basis > I'd appreciate a pointer or two. There's one called LaTeX2HTML. Look at http://cbl.leeds.ac.uk/nikos/tex2html/doc/latex2html/latex2html.html if you have access to the World Wide Web. If not, I can find out the ftp site for you. Cheers, Felix ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 15:26:44 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: dave@oldtwok (Dave Hamilton) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, dave@OLDTWOK Subject: multi-line literal in CWEB Date: 18 Nov 1994 21:12:55 GMT Message-ID: <3aj5cn$ihf@istwok.ods.com> To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU This may seem like a strange combination of environments and tools to most readers of this newsgroup, but here goes... I am using CWEB under Windows NT and developing with Visual C++ and the Microsoft foundation class library. The environment includes a component called the "Class Wizard" that automates connecting class member functions to message ids. It does this by managing parts of a source file that are bracketed by the following two lines: //{{AFX_MSG(Classname) ... //}}AFX_MSG I can tell the class wizard to look at my .w file instead of my .h and .cpp files for these special managed sections. The problem is that CWEB complains about the braces as part of comments. The class wizard requires that nothing precedes the "//" on the special comment lines (although it doesn't mind if there is something after it). This prevents me from using @q or @= to get CWEB to ignore the lines because anything between @q and @> or @= and @> must be all on one line. Any advice? Dave Hamilton ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 17:34:32 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu Message-ID: <199411182334.SAA29097@mail.med.cornell.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 18:34:49 -0500 To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, dave@OLDTWOK From: perin@med.cornell.edu (Lewis Perin) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, perin@MED.CORNELL.EDU Subject: Re: multi-line literal in CWEB >This may seem like a strange combination of environments and tools to most >readers of this newsgroup, but here goes... > >I am using CWEB under Windows NT and developing with Visual C++ and the >Microsoft foundation class library. The environment includes a component >called the "Class Wizard" that automates connecting class member functions >to message ids. It does this by managing parts of a source file that >are bracketed by the following two lines: > > //{{AFX_MSG(Classname) > ... > //}}AFX_MSG > >I can tell the class wizard to look at my .w file instead of my .h and .cpp >files for these special managed sections. The problem is that CWEB complains >about the braces as part of comments. The class wizard requires that nothing >precedes the "//" on the special comment lines (although it doesn't mind if >there is something after it). This prevents me from using @q or @= to get >CWEB to ignore the lines because anything between @q and @> or @= and @> >must be all on one line. > >Any advice? >Dave Hamilton > Sorry, Dave, no advice, except that you could always use noweb if nobody shows you how to do what you want to do. But I have a question: does VC++ let you debug the real source file (i.e. the ".w") rather than forcing you to look at the ".c" the way Symantec does? Cheers, ______________________________________________________ __ perin@med.cornell.edu (212)746-2946 | |_ \ / : Lew Perin |__ |__ \/\/ : Home: (201)435-2679 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 19 Nov 1994 00:45:41 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: Noel Hunter Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, noel@WFU.EDU Subject: Re: HELP!!HELP!!HELP!! Date: Sat, 19 Nov 1994 01:31:05 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU On Tue, 8 Nov 1994, Dennis Allison wrote: > In article <39obno$62j@eis.wfunet.wfu.edu> "(student)" wrote: > >I have a major problem... > >I need a solution to this as soon as possible! > >I need a seating plan for a table of 12. > >It is known that no guest knows more than 5 people. > >The host wants to have no one at the table sitting next to anyone he or she > >knows. > >Provide a proof that this is possible. > >Thanks, please post!! > > I beleive that it may be a good idea for you to inform the > various students about appropriate postings to the net and > to, perhaps, discourage anonymous postings of request for > solutions to homework assignments. Our computer usage policy, which all students receive, and which is available on-line, clearly covers this. Such a request, if it is indeed for a homework assignment, is a violation of our honor code. They are well-informed. Unfortunately, there is not sufficient material in the posting to determine the sender. If more evidence were available, I would forward it to the Honor Council. Regards, Noel Hunter * Noel Hunter, Academic Systems Administrator, Wake Forest University * * email: noel@wfu.edu http://www.wfu.edu/~noel * ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 20 Nov 1994 07:32:49 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: briggs@alamo.net (Briggs Reschke) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, briggs@ALAMO.NET Subject: Re: interrupts, memory, etc. I NEED HELP! Keywords: interrupts, memory, directories, password protecting Message-ID: Date: Sun, 20 Nov 1994 01:50:24 GMT To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU azboyle@its.dundee.ac.uk (ANDRE BOYLE) writes: > Can anyone tell me how to read a variable which is a string from memory at > DS:DX. This will most probably have to use the MEM command, but how? > MEM will give me a BYTE type result. This must then be converted to a CHAR an > then subsequently to a string. > But EMM386 constantly throws up error messages! > WHY? > The directory name is represented in memory as an ordinary character string, and as with anything in memory there is an address associated with it. In the case of your directory name, the Int. 21 function returns a "pointer" to its address in DS:DX. DS is the segment and DX is the offset. I don't program in pascal, so I can't tell you how to construct a pointer from its seg. and offset values, but I,m sure there is a way. And you'll undoubtably find it if you just remember that "ALL" values in memory, including those used by your operating system, are addressable. DS:DX == SEGMENT:OFFSET. -Briggs- -- briggs@alamo.net (Briggs Reschke) ALAMO Internet -- +1 (210) 561-9815/21 -- San Antonio, Texas ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 20 Nov 1994 12:39:28 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: tomas@cae.wisc.edu (Tomas Charles Willis) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, tomas@CAE.WISC.EDU Subject: Ray tracers (POV) and crystallograpers Date: 20 Nov 1994 18:33:25 GMT Message-ID: <3ao4pl$5ig@news.doit.wisc.edu> Keywords: POV,nuweb,ray tracing,crystallography,molecular modelling To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU Is there anybody else out there who is using ray tracers to make graphics of crystal lattice structures? I have been using POV to make ball-and-stick models of some the structures of some superconductors, and while putting the input files together more or less by hand is tedious, the results are quite pretty, and make great title slides for presentations. On a serious note I wonder if anyone has thoughts on scientific applications of ray tracing for crystallography, as well an useful tools. I write literate programming input files fo nuweb, which let me reuse certain bits of code and generate .pov files, makefiles, UNIX sh scripts, Amiga execute scripts, Conder JDF's and a LaTeX inputs file at one fell swoop. I'd still like to find a good tool for crystallographers using ray tracers, though. -- Ciao! Tomas Willis (tomas@cae.wisc.edu) @ @ @ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 20 Nov 1994 13:32:41 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: martin@oc2.oc.chemie.th-darmstadt.de (Martin Kroeker) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, martin@OC2.OC.CHEMIE.TH-DARMSTADT.DE Subject: Re: Ray tracers (POV) and crystallograpers Date: 20 Nov 1994 19:16:31 GMT Message-ID: <3ao7af$h9m@rs18.hrz.th-darmstadt.de> To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU Tomas Charles Willis (tomas@cae.wisc.edu) wrote: > I wonder if anyone has thoughts on scientific applications of ray tracing > for crystallography, as well an useful tools. I write literate programming Klaus Kosten of Aachen University has written a program named xtal4pov that creates POV data files for crystal shapes from the Hermann-Mauguin symbols and a list of Miller indices. This is a DOS program but it compiles on Unix systems as well after trivial changes. Larry Finger of the Carnegie Institution,Washington has written an AVS module that creates a polyhedra representation of crystal structures. I have converted this to a POV front-end and have already received his permission to distribute the modified version. However, i am (again) tracking down some annoying bugs, so don't expect it to be available this week. Hopefully the next version of his program will include raytracer support already, as i am not much of a C programmer. ;-) Martin -- Dr.-Ing. Martin Kroeker Inst. f. Organ. Chemie martin@oc2.oc.chemie.th-darmstadt.de Univ. (TH) Darmstadt db7p@hrzpub.th-darmstadt.de Germany ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 21 Nov 1994 06:24:55 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: hewat@ill.fr (Alan Hewat) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, hewat@ILL.FR Subject: Re: Ray tracers (POV) and crystallograpers Date: 21 Nov 1994 10:55:00 GMT Message-ID: <3apua4$8r6@cicg-communication.grenet.fr> To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU martin@oc2.oc.chemie.th-darmstadt.de (Martin Kroeker) writes: > Tomas Charles Willis (tomas@cae.wisc.edu) wrote: > > I wonder if anyone has thoughts on scientific applications of ray tracing > > for crystallography, as well an useful tools. I write literate programming > > Larry Finger of the Carnegie Institution,Washington has written an > AVS module that creates a polyhedra representation of crystal structures. Ray tracing seems like a very heavy approach to producing high quality 3D drawings of crystal structures. Certainly people should look first at the AVS or SGI Explorer methods, or those available with commercial packages such as Cerius and Biosym. These drawings have many of the features of ray tracing - directional lights etc (but not shadows ;-) They have a big advantage over ray-tracing in that they can be rotated in real time. If you have a machine with the SGI graphics languages openGL and openInventor (i.e. all SGI machines, future Windows NT, IBM OS/2, DEC, various 3rd party suppliers for HP, Sun etc) I have a programme that will produce directionally lighted 3D polyhedrae, Ball&Stick etc models given a wide variety of formats (Shell-X, CCSL, Rietveld etc). If you would like an example and if you have a Silicon Graphics machine, or an Inventor viewer on another machine, email me (or send me a structure co-ordinates file). It will even do dynamic models to illustrate phase transitions. It will be demonstrated at the January meeting of French crystallographers in Grenoble. Alan Hewat, ILL Grenoble, FRANCE (hewat@ill.fr) Fax (33) 76.48.39.06 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 21 Nov 1994 06:43:55 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: maavl@cwi.nl (Marc van Leeuwen) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, maavl@CWI.NL Subject: Re: multi-line literal in CWEB Message-ID: Date: Mon, 21 Nov 1994 10:04:02 GMT To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU In article <3aj5cn$ihf@istwok.ods.com>, dave@oldtwok (Dave Hamilton) writes: |> I am using CWEB under Windows NT and developing with Visual C++ and the |> Microsoft foundation class library. The environment includes a component |> called the "Class Wizard" that automates connecting class member functions |> to message ids. It does this by managing parts of a source file that |> are bracketed by the following two lines: |> |> //{{AFX_MSG(Classname) |> ... |> //}}AFX_MSG |> |> I can tell the class wizard to look at my .w file instead of my .h and .cpp |> files for these special managed sections. The problem is that CWEB complains |> about the braces as part of comments. The class wizard requires that nothing |> precedes the "//" on the special comment lines (although it doesn't mind if |> there is something after it). This prevents me from using @q or @= to get |> CWEB to ignore the lines because anything between @q and @> or @= and @> |> must be all on one line. That a nasty little problem you have there, but you might have a few options. First of all why is there a problem? Because CWEAVE wants braces to be balanced in comments. This is really a relic from the Pascal origins of CWEAVE, since there comments are delimited by braces, and brace-counting is inevitable. So you could safely remove the code that does this from CWEAVE, and there would be no complaint any more (if you are using CWEB 3.2, you must not forget to invent a new name for the resulting system though, see the copyright notice:-); nevertheless your problem would reappear because the comment is converted to an argument to a formatting macro for comments (\SHC in your case), and TeX doesn't like (more exactly, doesn't recognise) macro arguments that start with closing braces. I can think of some solutions that might work. 1. Tell the "Class Wizard" to look at the output from CTANGLE rather than at the .w file (so your .cpp or .h file). Then force an appripriate comment into that file by saying (in the second case) @=//}}AFX_MSG@> at the end of the line (CTANGLE respects line ends, so it will stay there). You might want to insert @q{{@> in front to keep other brace counters (e.g., your editor) happy. 2. Do as you have done until now (having the "Class Wizard" scan the .w file), and ignore the error messages from CWEAVE. It will remove/insert braces as it finds appropriate, and TeX will be able to process the output of CWEAVE. 3. Keep the brace-counting code in CWEAVE, but remove the error messages. This is institutionalising solution of 2. 4. Remove the brace-counting code from CWEAVE altogether, and insert other comments, like /* \gobble{{this vanishes! */ //}}AFX_MSG where you define \def\gobble#1{}. In the TeX file this would result in \C{ \gobble{{this vanishes! }\SHC{}}AFX_MSG } which TeX will interpret as a call of \C with ` \gobble...AFX_MSG ' as argument, which will ``expand'' to ` AFX_MSG '. I have focussed on the second line, since it appears that the first one is simply solved by adding `}}' at the end of it. Success, Marc van Leeuwen ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 21 Nov 1994 08:10:38 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: martin@oc2.oc.chemie.th-darmstadt.de (Martin Kroeker) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, martin@OC2.OC.CHEMIE.TH-DARMSTADT.DE Subject: Re: Ray tracers (POV) and crystallograpers Date: 21 Nov 1994 11:51:31 GMT Message-ID: <3aq1k3$kle@rs18.hrz.th-darmstadt.de> To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU Alan Hewat (hewat@ill.fr) wrote: : Ray tracing seems like a very heavy approach to producing high quality : 3D drawings of crystal structures. Certainly people should look first : at the AVS or SGI Explorer methods, or those available with commercial : packages such as Cerius and Biosym. These drawings have many of the Depends on what you call heavy. I started out with Dr. Finger's excellent AVS module on an overloaded RS6k and then switched to POV on a i486 running Linux. A fast SGI with graphics hardware would be ideal, but would cost a lot more. : They have a big advantage over ray-tracing in that they can be rotated : in real time. Of course you will benefit from some kind of modeller that lets you rotate a (possibly wireframe) preview before the actual raytracing is done. The alternative would be to trace previews at low quality, which typically takes less than five minutes. Martin -- Dr.-Ing. Martin Kroeker Inst. f. Organ. Chemie martin@oc2.oc.chemie.th-darmstadt.de Univ. (TH) Darmstadt db7p@hrzpub.th-darmstadt.de Germany ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 21 Nov 1994 12:18:19 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: hewat@ill.fr (Alan Hewat) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, hewat@ILL.FR Subject: Re: Ray tracers (POV) and crystallograpers Date: 21 Nov 1994 17:41:28 GMT Message-ID: <3aqm48$4gd@cicg-communication.grenet.fr> To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU martin@oc2.oc.chemie.th-darmstadt.de (Martin Kroeker) writes: > Alan Hewat (hewat@ill.fr) wrote: > : Ray tracing seems like a very heavy approach to producing high quality > : 3D drawings of crystal structures. Certainly people should look first > : at the AVS or SGI Explorer methods ... > > Depends on what you call heavy. I started out with Dr. Finger's excellent > AVS module on an overloaded RS6k and then switched to POV on a i486 running > Linux. A fast SGI with graphics hardware would be ideal, but would cost a > lot more. SGI France are selling the base model Indy, which does a great job drawing 3D crystal structures and comes with the necessary software, for 32 kFF (less than 10 kDM) education discount, plus sales tax until 20 Dec. Not a lot more. Alan Hewat, ILL Grenoble, FRANCE (hewat@ill.fr) Fax (33) 76.48.39.06 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 21 Nov 1994 20:13:45 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: pornin@aviso.ens.fr (Thomas Pornin) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, pornin@AVISO.ENS.FR Subject: Re: interrupts, memory, etc. I NEED HELP! Date: 22 Nov 1994 01:52:53 GMT Message-ID: <3aritl$hdb@nef.ens.fr> Keywords: interrupts, memory, directories, password protecting To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU In article , Briggs Reschke wrote: [...] > I don't program in pascal, so I can't tell you how to construct >a pointer from its seg. and offset values, but I,m sure there is a way. >And you'll undoubtably find it if you just remember that "ALL" values in >memory, including those used by your operating system, are addressable. > >DS:DX == SEGMENT:OFFSET. > To define a variable pointing to a known address: VAR usrvar:^vartype; usrvar:=ptr(segv,ofsv); where segv:ofsv is the address variable, and vartype its type. You access the variable with the syntax usrvar^ . About strings: there may be a problem, as dos strings are not the same than borland strings. In a borland string, the first character is the length of the string, whereas in a dos screen, the first character is the first letter of the string, and the last is a termination code (code 0 or character "$"). I think that some conversion function should be fine. Hope this helps. Thomas Pornin NB: to access word values in ram, use the memw array. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 02:44:19 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu Date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 08:44:56 +0000 (GMT) From: "Ralph Corderoy (jim)" Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, ralphc@SPS.SIEMENS.CO.UK To: LitProg@SHSU.edu CC: Ralph Corderoy Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII SIGNOFF LitProg ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 07:15:15 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: krasel@alf.biochem.mpg.de (Cornelius Krasel) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, krasel@ALF.BIOCHEM.MPG.DE Subject: Re: Ray tracers (POV) and crystallograpers Date: 22 Nov 1994 12:41:23 GMT Message-ID: <3asotj$16he@sat.ipp-garching.mpg.de> To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU Alan Hewat (hewat@ill.fr) wrote: > martin@oc2.oc.chemie.th-darmstadt.de (Martin Kroeker) writes: > > I started out with Dr. Finger's excellent > > AVS module on an overloaded RS6k and then switched to POV on a i486 running > > Linux. A fast SGI with graphics hardware would be ideal, but would cost a > > lot more. > SGI France are selling the base model Indy, which does a great job drawing > 3D crystal structures and comes with the necessary software, for 32 kFF (less > than 10 kDM) education discount, plus sales tax until 20 Dec. Not a lot more. From what I have heard, the Indy is painfully slow. You can't say that from a i486 running Linux. (But I would prefer a decent SGI anyway, if only I could afford it :-) --Cornelius. -- /* Cornelius Krasel, Abt. Lohse, Genzentrum, D-82152 Martinsried, Germany */ /* email: krasel@alf.biochem.mpg.de fax: +49 89 8578 3795 */ /* "Science is the game you play with God to find out what His rules are." */ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 15:23:19 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: hewat@ill.fr (Alan Hewat) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, hewat@ILL.FR Subject: Re: Ray tracers (POV) and crystallograpers Date: 22 Nov 1994 21:04:49 GMT Message-ID: <3atmdh$97h@cicg-communication.grenet.fr> To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU krasel@alf.biochem.mpg.de (Cornelius Krasel) writes: > From what I have heard, the Indy is painfully slow. You can't say that from > a i486 running Linux. We have about 15 Indys from the base model (4600PC) up, and the base model is much faster than a 486, of which we also have a few. No comparison. Alan Hewat, ILL Grenoble, FRANCE (hewat@ill.fr) Fax (33) 76.48.39.06 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 18:38:58 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: ms08@festival.ed.ac.uk (C Radek) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, ms08@FESTIVAL.ED.AC.UK Subject: Re: Ray tracers (POV) and crystallograpers Message-ID: Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 00:08:44 GMT Keywords: POV,nuweb,ray tracing,crystallography,molecular modelling To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU tomas@cae.wisc.edu (Tomas Charles Willis) writes: >Is there anybody else out there who is using ray tracers to make graphics >of crystal lattice structures? I have been using POV to make ball-and-stick >models of some the structures of some superconductors, and while putting >the input files together more or less by hand is tedious, the results are >quite pretty, and make great title slides for presentations. I have written some ray tracing programs to visualise single crystal structures. These programs are quite fast and meant to be used with structures of up to 2000 atoms. A complete image takes about 2 to 3 minutes. The program requires the data either in SHELX76, SHELXL-93 or a generic format. The latest version of this program runs under Windows 3.1 in 256 colour mode. It is in my view still an experimental version and I would like to develop it further. Sadly I do not have the time to do so at the present moment but I would like to know whether there is some interest on such software or not. Chris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | A couple of months in the lab can frequently save | | a few minutes in the library! | ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | Christian Radek, Department of Chemistry, The University of Edinburgh | | King's Buildings, West Mains Road, Edinburgh EH9 3JJ, Scotland. | | E-Mail: ms08@festival.ed.ac.uk Tel: 031 650 4809 Fax: 031 650 4743 | ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 24 Nov 1994 01:58:31 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: mgd1@ellis.uchicago.edu (Marc Dreyfuss) Subject: Newbie question Message-ID: <1994Nov23.230415.29485@midway.uchicago.edu> Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, mgd1@midway.uchicago.edu Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 23:04:15 GMT To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU I am sorry if this is in the FAQ, but I have some questions: I would like to learn how to program games, and was wondering if anyone knew some simple source code of games to look at to start learning. I am particularly interested in the code for Adventure, and old text-adventure game. Please email or post. Thank you very much. Sincerely, Marc Dreyfuss -- Marc Dreyfuss mgd1@midway.uchicago.edu ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 24 Nov 1994 09:06:07 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: scottclev@aol.com (ScottClev) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, scottclev@AOL.COM Subject: Programmer Available Date: 24 Nov 1994 09:15:17 -0500 Message-ID: <3b275l$kgd@newsbf01.news.aol.com> To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU I am a graduate Mechanical Engineer with Strong analysis and Business skills, looking to do "moonlighting" work in PC prgramming. I write good, clean, well written code, and will work at a VERY REASONABLE RATES!!! Please E-Mail on AOL : ScottClev on Internet: ScottClev@aol.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 24 Nov 1994 09:06:29 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: partingr@p4.cs.man.ac.uk (Robert Partington) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, partingr@P4.CS.MAN.AC.UK Subject: CWEB makefile Date: 24 Nov 1994 14:40:21 GMT Message-ID: <3b28kl$2h7@m1.cs.man.ac.uk> Keywords: cweb makefile To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU As the summary line says, I need a makefile that can do .w -> binary And I know one comes with the CWEB distribution... :( Rob === ps I also need a CWEB that only indexes types that are referenced in the .w file. I have a program that comes out as 3 pages long with an index of 6 pages--most of which is types that are never referenced in the main program. Can anyone do this? Please? -- Robert Partington, Manchester Uni, 3rd year CS partingr@cs.man.ac.uk / http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~partingr/homepage.html Maintainer of the Halibutt Sharon WWW page. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 24 Nov 1994 09:42:17 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: weiqigao@crl.com Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, weiqigao@CRL.COM Subject: Inappropriate Subject for Literate Programming (Re: Newbie question) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 94 09:37:57 CST Message-ID: <3b2bvp$nd7@nntp.crl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU In article <1994Nov23.230415.29485@midway.uchicago.edu>, mgd1@ellis.uchicago.edu says... > > > >I am sorry if this is in the FAQ, but I have some questions: > >I would like to learn how to program games, and was wondering >if anyone knew some simple source code of games to look at >to start learning. I am particularly interested in the code >for Adventure, and old text-adventure game. > >Please email or post. Thank you very much. > > Sincerely, Marc Dreyfuss > > >-- >Marc Dreyfuss >mgd1@midway.uchicago.edu The topic is inappropriate for the comp.programming.literate group. We comp.programming.literate-ers get all sorts of strang posts :) To liven up the discussion in this group, let me ask a question. We have seen several major literate programming paradigm in the past twenty years. WEB, CWEB, FWEB, noweb, nuweb, etc. From the FAQ, it is hard to see which one is still current, or what feature does one package have. It would definitely make the FAQ more newbie-friendly (maintainer-hostile) to include a tabular form comparing the packages side by side, like this: A |B |C |D |E |F |...... WEB 82 3 0 p u,d, n ...... ............................................... Legend: A--First release B--Number of users known to author (maintainer) C--Current (actively supported) D--Languages supported E--Runs on these platforms F--New releases in the last two years ...... p--PASCAL u--UNIX d--DOS y--Yes n--No 0--Zero \/\/eiqi Gao weiqigao@crl.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 24 Nov 1994 10:31:45 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu Date: Thu, 24 Nov 1994 17:31:13 +0100 (MET) From: Giovanni MenoZero Pensa Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, pensa@DSI.UNIMI.IT To: LitProg@SHSU.edu Subject: CWEBMAC.TEX for LaTeX2e (and international) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I'm looking for a .sty file containing CWEBMAC.TEX macros. I'd like to include the TeX file produced by CWEB in a LaTeX2e document. If that style doesn't exist, I could make it, but I don't want to make something that already exist --you know... (I've seen the macro that stop loading CWEBMAC.TEX if the \documentstyle (!) command is defined, so...) BTW, I've already made an italian CWEBMAC.TEX file. I could make an international version, with \pagename and \sectionname command, if anyone is interested... g. I was born in a small place. Maybe you know it. It's called Earth. Giovanni MenoZero Pensa pensa@dsi.unimi.it

URL ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 24 Nov 1994 16:28:34 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: Brian.Wasner%bbs@dmapub.dma.org (Brian Wasner) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, Brian.Wasner%bbs@DMAPUB.DMA.ORG To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, scottclev@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Programmer Available Date: Thu, 24 Nov 94 17:28:36 EST5EDT Message-ID: <1994Nov24.172836.18778@dmapub.dma.org> Sir, I also do feelance programming for all platforms, esp. in the Network arena of software servers... Perhaps we could/should team up? Please send more info. Thanks, Brian Wasner -- Brian Wasner, user of the UniBoard System @ dmapub.dma.org E-Mail: Brian.Wasner%bbs@dmapub.dma.org The Dayton Microcomputer Association Voice: (513) 848-6362 Public Unix Access System, Dayton, OH. Data: (513) 229-3787 (USA) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 27 Nov 1994 14:51:49 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: groener@vt.edu (Markus K. Groener) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, groener@VT.EDU Subject: Creating Tables in Tex/LateX, also including Postsript??? Date: Sun, 27 Nov 1994 20:49:07 GMT Message-ID: To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU Hello, I am trying to create a Tex/Latex file with several tables in it. I would appreciate it if someone could explain with a small example how one can go about creating tables in Tex/Latex. I also have the possibility to create the table with WordPerfect or Excel and save it to a postscript file. How would I go about including this file in my literate program such that the table is placed inbetween text. I appreciate any help that I can get. Thanks in advance, Markus Please reply to this newsgroup or send email to: groener@vt.edu ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 01:33:06 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: weiqigao@crl.com (Weiqi Gao) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, weiqigao@CRL.COM Subject: Re: Creating Tables in Tex/LateX, also including Postsript??? Date: Mon, 28 Nov 94 01:29:31 CST Message-ID: <3bc0rp$l33@nntp.crl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU In article , Markus K. Groener says... > >Hello, >I am trying to create a Tex/Latex file with several tables in it. I would >appreciate it if someone could explain with a small example how one can >go about creating tables in Tex/Latex. >I also have the possibility to create the table with WordPerfect or Excel >and save it to a postscript file. How would I go about including this >file in my literate program such that the table is placed inbetween text. Here is an example of a LaTeX table: ... for the result see Table 7. \begin{table} \begin{tabular}{|l|c|r|} aaaa & aaaa & aaaa \\ aaa & aaa & aaa \\ aa & aa & aa \\ a & a & a \end{tabular} \caption{Results} \end{table} This produces the table: Table 7. Results |aaaa |aaaa | aaaa| |aaa | aaa | aaa| |aa | aa | aa| |a | a | a| The argument after \begin{tabular} specifies the number of columns and alignment of each column. | is vertical rule, l is flush left, c is center, r is flush right. \/\/eiqi Gao weiqigao@crl.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 02:02:07 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: coates@kelvin.physics.uq.oz.au (Tony Coates) Subject: Proposal: OpenDoc/OLE LitProg tool. Date: 28 Nov 1994 07:45:57 GMT Message-ID: Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, coates@physics.uq.edu.au To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU In the past I've written suggesting that I expected that one day a `Windows-style' LitProg application would supercede that text/TeX-based tools that exist now. While I am currently not so unhappy using FunnelWeb/LaTeX (or FunnelWeb/HTML), there are times I would love to be able to just start up a drawing program to include a diagram into my documentation, for example. Yes, there are ways of doing this with TeX, of course, but it is a more involved process than I would like. This has led me to wonder recently whether OpenDoc and/or OLE, which are meant to allow one program to call the functionality of another, might be used to create a system in which the LitProg tool takes the form of a layer which extracts source code from the documentation/source file (be it a word-processor file or a (La)TeX file) and passes the code, suitable reconstructed, to a compiler or make utility or whatever. The idea would be to try and make this layer as generic as possible, or maybe have 3 layers: 1: doc -> litprog 2: litprog processing 3: litprog -> compiler, etc. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? I would be interested to know which functions people don't have now or fear they would lose with such a proposal. For my own part, I am most interested in generating documentation which is viewed electronically, preferably with hypertext links, though I am aware that others prefer to view the documentation on paper, which leads to different needs, though I would expect that creating a tool to properly exploit both shouldn't be so hard, as with the LaTeX/HTML generation in noweb (and in my experimental version of FunnelWeb, for anyone who wants to beta-test). Anyway, I look forward to any thoughts the group may have. Cheers, Tony. -- _____________________________________________________________________________ A.B.Coates, Dept. of Physics, The University of Queensland QLD 4072 Australia. Email: coates@physics.uq.oz.au Phone: (07/+617) 365-3424 Fax: (07/+617) 365-1242 Disclaimer: The University is ignorant of my opinions, let alone guilty ... _____________________________________________________________________________ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 14:55:08 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: Dean Wooldridge Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, meds@ONRAMP.NET Subject: HELP Systems Date: Mon, 28 Nov 94 15:51:43 PDT Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU I need help locating a software package designed to help customer support staff and/or technical support staff diagnose and resolve end user problems. The package should run within Windows on either a Novell or Windows For Workgroups network. It needs to be extendable -- the technical staff will probably have to build and keep the database up to date. Hypertext capabilities would be nice. Storage of pictures, multi-media, etc. is optional and probably would not be used that much. Any ideas? Any thoughts on what the "Big Boys" like Microsoft, Novell, Borland, etc. use in their support shops? Thanks. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 21:58:11 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 03:41:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Stephen Boyan (510) 926-3291/fax 926-3604" Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, BOYANST@NCAL.KAIPERM.ORG Subject: RE: Inappropriate Subject for Literate Programming (Re: Newbi To: LitProg@shsu.edu I'll vote for that (the table of webs, proposed in the second letter of this thread, that shows similarities and differences of the various web packages). Thanks. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 11:12:50 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: iggjacob@sgi03 (Jacob Nielsen (c898594)) Subject: Re: Proposal: OpenDoc/OLE LitProg tool. Date: 29 Nov 1994 15:23:26 GMT Message-ID: <3bfh1e$sdq@unidhp.uni-c.dk> Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, iggjacob@bbar.dtu.dk To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU >>>>>>> TC == Tony Coates (coates@kelvin.physics.uq.oz.au) wrote: I see one major stopping block: not everyone uses Windows and it's my impression that this is especially true in this forum. No doubt that if literate-programming is to reach a wide audience, it is essential that we can do literate-programming in a windowing system with a real :-) word processing program. TC> In the past I've written suggesting that I expected that one day a TC> `Windows-style' LitProg application would supercede that TC> text/TeX-based tools that exist now. [...] This has led me to TC> wonder recently whether OpenDoc and/or OLE, which are meant to TC> allow one program to call the functionality of another, might be TC> used to create a system in which the LitProg tool takes the form TC> of a layer which extracts source code from the TC> documentation/source file (be it a word-processor file or a TC> (La)TeX file) and passes the code, suitable reconstructed, to a TC> compiler or make utility or whatever. The idea would be to try TC> and make this layer as generic as possible, or maybe have 3 TC> layers: 1: doc -> litprog 2: litprog processing 3: litprog -> TC> compiler, etc. TC> Does anyone have any thoughts on this? I would be interested to TC> know which functions people don't have now or fear they would lose TC> with such a proposal. [...] What about the links/references, who handles them? In my opinion this has to be done by the computer. What I really want is not only an automatic extraction of the code; I want to have the two standard things of nuweb, noweb etc. and the joy of WYSIWYG: 1. Interleaving of documentation + code 2. Automatic indexing/crossreferencing of code The documentation part (1.) is quite well served by any standard word processor today. It is because of my laziness (2.) that I do not write my literate programs in a word processor today. It would be great if OpenDoc/OLE/any standard could do these things, but I'd still stay with NEXTSTEP as my computing enviroment and I guess others wouldn't trade their Macs, X-terminals etc. for Windows. Staying with the notion of an OpenDoc standard, perhaps we should think of a literate program not as documentation interleaved with code, but as documentation interleaved with code and indexing info; this way we could let the literate programming tool handle the indexing. I envision something like this: (the ``...'' signals the different programs) ``Word processor'' This is just a little test. ``Litprog Code Editor'' = #include "todo.h" int main() { doSomeThingUsefull(); return 1; } ``Word processor'' And the text continues. This would look like this in the word processor: This is just a little test. "test.cc" 1 = #include "todo.h" int main() { doSomeThingUsefull(); return 1; } And the text continues. with all the indexing of user defined names etc. is controlled by the Litprog Code Editor. Disclaimer: I know nothing about OLE/OpenDoc, so I can't say if this is possible. But then, who ever said a man can't dream? Jacob -- Jacob Nielsen iggjacob@bbar.dtu.dk ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 11:27:51 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: Dean Wooldridge Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, meds@ONRAMP.NET Subject: HELP Systems Date: Tue, 29 Nov 94 10:46:51 PDT Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU Does anyone know of good Windows software designed to help technical staff and/or customer support staff with problem resolution? We need to build an electronic database of information about our product, questions and procedures for resolution, etc. Thanks. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 13:44:41 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: vidar@sundial.sce.carleton.ca (vidar vetland) Subject: Parameterised code chuncks in noweb? Message-ID: Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, vidar@sce.carleton.ca Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 17:42:54 GMT To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU Hi there. I just started to use noweb. As far as I can see, it is not possible to parameterise the code chuncks. Am I expected to use some macro-package? What are the pros and cons of parameterised code chuncks of literate programming? Thanks in advance. Regards, Vidar Vetland Carleton University Dept. Systems and Computer Engineering Ottawa, Canada Email: vidar@sce.carleton.ca ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 13:45:29 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu Subject: :SKILL CONTEST - WIN $750,000 CONDO! From: contest@datanet.com (Contest) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, contest@DATANET.COM Message-ID: <25.63.3208@datanet.com> Date: Mon, 28 Nov 94 10:31:00 -0800 To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU ******** WIN ********* LUXURY 4BR PENTHOUSE MARINA DEL REY, CA. USA VALUED AT $725,000 Steps to beach-near LAX Located within exclusive Los Angeles, CA. Marina Peninsula. area Home to movie, TV, and sports celebrities. 3350 sq. ft. + 1200' private sun deck, 3 fireplaces, 4 and 1/2 baths library/den, bar and game room. Winner is determined by simple contest of skill. Limited to 4000 entries. $250 entrance fee. For application & details send Internet EMail to CONTEST@DATANET.COM DNIS - Palm Springs, California * Via Modem Call: (619) 864-1468 A Winner Of The 1993 John C. Dvorak Telecommunications Award!! ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 13:58:52 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: ichudov@wiltel.com (Igor Chudov) Subject: Re: HELP Systems Date: 29 Nov 1994 19:10:40 GMT Message-ID: <3bfubg$6j3@gateway.wiltel.com> Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, igor_chudov@wiltel.com (Igor Chudov) To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU Dean Wooldridge (meds@onramp.net) wrote in comp.lang.c++: : Does anyone know of good Windows software designed to help technical staff : and/or customer support staff with problem resolution? We need to build : an electronic database of information about our product, questions and : procedures for resolution, etc. Try to inquire Software Artistry (their domain is softart.com), thay have some cool system for support and help desks. Sorry, I do not have email of anyone there in particular, try info or postmaster... Hope this helps, ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Igor Chudov, Resource Solutions Intl office (918)588-2309 Systems Engineer, for WilTel. home (918)585-5862 E-mail: igor_chudov@wiltel.com http://m-net.arbornet.org/~ichudov 1819 South Jackson #32-P Tulsa OK 74107 f u cn rd ths, u cn gt a gd jb n cmptr prgrmmng. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 14:56:34 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 20:36:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Stephen Boyan (510) 926-3291/fax 926-3604" Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, BOYANST@NCAL.KAIPERM.ORG Subject: How do I set the digest feature on? To: LitProg@shsu.edu I tried to set the digest feature on with the command set LitProg mail digest and received an error message back that this contained an invalid parameter. Can anyone help. Thanks. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 14:59:17 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 20:20:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Stephen Boyan (510) 926-3291/fax 926-3604" Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, BOYANST@NCAL.KAIPERM.ORG Subject: RE: HELP Systems To: LitProg@shsu.edu Intersolv recently acquired a product called Defect Control System which might meet your needs. Their number used to be 800-547-PVCS. Help desk software and bug tracking software are now genres with several entries each, so you might also check around, say in some of the mail order catalogs that specialize in developer support. Examples would be ProVantage and The Programmer's Shop. Good Luck. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 21:29:46 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: coates@kelvin.physics.uq.oz.au (Tony Coates) Subject: Experimental version of FunnelWeb for beta-testing. Date: 30 Nov 1994 02:27:22 GMT Message-ID: Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, coates@physics.uq.edu.au To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU [ FunnelWeb is a literate programming tool which is language insensitive - it doesn't format languages specially, but it also won't choke on having different languages in the one file. It has a built-in and powerful macro preprocessor. ] I have an experimental version of FunnelWeb which has addition such as HTML output and insertion (automatic or manual) of #line directives. If anyone would be interested in beta-testing, they can email me as `coates@physics.uq.edu.au' and I will tell them how they can obtain it (this experimental version is not for general release, only to those who ask for it specifically). I also have a fledgling FunnelWeb WWW page at http://www.physics.uq.oz.au:8001/people/coates/funnelweb.html which you are welcome to look at and make suggestions about. Cheers, Tony. -- _____________________________________________________________________________ A.B.Coates, Dept. of Physics, The University of Queensland QLD 4072 Australia. Email: coates@physics.uq.oz.au Phone: (07/+617) 365-3424 Fax: (07/+617) 365-1242 Disclaimer: The University is ignorant of my opinions, let alone guilty ... _____________________________________________________________________________ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 22:18:35 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: Multimedia@cce.ubc.ca (Charles Tremewen) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, Multimedia@CCE.UBC.CA Subject: MULTICOMM'94 PROCEEDINGS AVAILABLE Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 19:22:24 -0800 Message-ID: To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU ********************************************* *************** NOW AVAILABLE ************* *** MULTICOMM'94 CONFERENCE PROCEEDINGS *** ********************************************* ********************************************* __________________________________________________________ MULTICOMM'94 - The Conference on Multimedia Solutions for Business and Education", NOVEMBER 2&3, 1994, VANCOUVER, CANADA ____________________________________________________________ If you were unable to attend Multicomm'94 but would like a copy of the proceedings, please fill out and FAX/Mail the form below along with VISA or MASTERCARD or your CHEQUE in the amount of $45.00 Canadian ____________________________________________________________ Price includes the over 250 page proceedings, a nifty black canvas briefcase with the MULTICOMM'94 and Electronic Arts Logo in white on one side, and all postage, handling and taxes. ____________________________________________________________ Content for this years proceedings includes the following authors and thier papers: KEYNOTE: Nicholas Negroponte, Director MIT Media Lab (bio only) ÒVIZAbility: A central literacy for the information ageÓ Dr. Kristina Hooper Woolsey, Distinguished Scientist, Apple Computer, Inc., Cupertino, California, USA (plenary-abstract only) ÒHow the Information Highway will Transform EducationÓ Dr. Kim Henry Veltman, Director, Perspective Unit, The McLuhan Program in Culture and Technology, University of Toronto, Toronto, Ontario, Canada ÒFrom Infobahn to Interactivity - Who is going to pay for it?Ó (plenary-abstract only, paper available) Kenneth Lim, Chairman & Chief Futurist, CyberMedia Group Cupertino, California, USA ÒWhere Rubber Hits the Information HighwayÓ Duncan C. Card, Barrister & Solicitor, Lang Michener, Toronto, Ontario, Canada ÒSeeing the Forest and the Trees: Implementing Decentralized Multimedia TrainingÓ Janet Adams, Manager, Mapping and Design Section, B.C. Ministry of Forests, Victoria, British Columbia, Canada ÒCommunication and the Collaborative ProcessÓ Beth Agnew, Writer, Editor, Multimedia Designer, Agnew Communications, Victoria, British Columbia, Canada ÒMarketing Multimedia - a Toolkit for the 90ÕsÓ Catharine Arnston, President - Software Studio, Boston, Massachusetts, USA ÒConsumer Centered CommunicationsÓ Alan W. Aylward, President - Forevergreen Television and Film Productions Inc., Toronto, Ontario, Canada ÒDesigning by wire - an end to frequent flyer pointsÓ Gary Blakeley, Graphic Designer/Faculty - Emily Carr Institute of Art and Design, Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada ÒThe Back End of a Multimedia TitleÓ Bob Boiko, President - Bobko Industries, Inc., Seattle, Washington, USA ÒA New Spin on TrainingÓ Marie Burlinson, President - RJM Multimedia Inc., Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada ÒArt and Technology in PracticeÓ Kathleen Chmelewski/Nan Goggin/Joseph Squier, Faculty members University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, Illinois, USA ÒBotswana Life! A Five-Week MiracleÓ Alan Dickeson, Jan Miers, Media Production,Coordinator/Technical Support Analyst University of Victoria, Victoria, British Columbia, Canada ÒEnsuring Learning When Using Technology For Instruction: The medium is not the messageÓ Kerry Elfstrom, Instructional Development Specialist, BC TEL Burnaby, British Columbia, Canada ÒThe Differences Between CD-ROMs and VideodiscsÓ Peter Fenrich, Interactive Multimedia Development Centre Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada ÒA Distributed Multimedia Architecture for Intent-Based Video Authoring and PresentingÓ Kellog S. Booth, Andrew Csinger, Steve Gribble, Department of Computer SciencesUniversity of British Columbia, Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada ÒPliable Authoring Tools for Interactive Media: An Investigation into Design, Application and ValueÓ Paul D. Hibbitts, Republic Software Design, Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada ÒATIE: An Interactive Learning Environment Using Multimedia, Database Technology, and Artificial IntelligenceÓ Russell R. Irving, Computer Scientist, GE Corporate Research and Development, Schenectady, New York, USA ÒCollaborative Learning: Teaching Ethical Theory in a Computerized Case-Study FormatÓ Dr. Patrick Kelly, Christopher G. Smith, Mark W. Bridges, Professor / Research Scientist I / Research Assistant School of International Affairs, Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta, Georgia, USA ÒCustomization and Delivery of Multimedia InformationÓ Dr. Bob Kummerfeld, Janet Kay, Associate Professor / Senior Lecturer, Basser Department of Computer Science, University of Sydney, Sydney, Australia ÒWho put the Hype in HyperMedia?Ó Shane Lunny, President, Lunny Communications Group, Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada (abstract only) ÒCreating CD ROMs Means Creating PartnershipsÓ Debra McAdam, Communications Officer, Education Program Greater Vancouver Regional District, Burnaby, Canada ÒReal World WritingÓ Sam McMillan, Interactive designer, Copywriter, Project Manager, San Francisco, California, USA ÒIÕNetÕs Multimedia Information eXchange (MiX)Ó David Metcalf, DM2> DESIGN, New York, NY, USA ÒExpertise Modeling: A Transparent Tool for LearningÓ Myra Peterson, Instructional Designer, Ministry of Forests Victoria, British Columbia, Canada ÒPractical Applications of Three Dimensional ImagingÓ Dr. Griff Richards, Interactive Media Projects Leader, British Columbia Institute of Technology, Burnaby, British Columbia, Canada ÒThe Information Explosion - a Bomb or a Source of Power?Ó Rick Sharpe, President, Sharpe MetaMedia Inc., Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada ÒSoftware Escrow: A Solution to Multimedia Legal IssuesÓ Bea Strickland, SOURCEFILE, San Francisco, California, USA ________________________________________________________ PAYMENT FORM FOR MULTICOMM'94 PROCEEDINGS ---Cut along this line and return with Payment--- ************************************************** >>>>>>>>MULTICOMM'94 PROCEEDINGS PAYMENT FORM <<<<<<<<<< PERSONAL INFORMATION: Name______________________________________________ Company___________________________________________ Address___________________________________________ City______________________________________________ Province/State____________________________________ Zip_____________________________ PHONE: Day________________________________ Evening____________________________ FAX________________________________ E-mail Address________________________________ ________________________________________________________ METHOD OF PAYMENT: ___Cheque/Money Order (payable to UBC) ___Cash (for pre-registration in person) ____Visa __ __ __ __-__ __ __-__ __ __-__ __ __ ____MasterCard __ __ __ __-__ __ __ __-__ __ __ __-__ __ __ __ Valid Date____________________ Expiry Date____________________ I authorize UBC to charge the above amount to my credit card Signature: _________________________________________________ MAIL APPLICATION WITH PAYMENT TO: Conference PROCEEDINGS - MultiComm`94 The University of British Columbia Continuing Studies 5997 Iona Drive, Vancouver, B.C., Canada, V6T 1Z1 Phone:(604) 822-1431 (Vicki Ayerbe) Fax: (604) 822-1449 E-mail: multicomm@cce.ubc.ca Attn: Vicki Ayerbe ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 22:18:40 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: Multimedia@cce.ubc.ca (Charles Tremewen) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, Multimedia@CCE.UBC.CA Subject: MULTICOMM'94 PROCEEDINGS AVAILABLE Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 19:35:59 -0800 Message-ID: To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU ********************************************* *************** NOW AVAILABLE ************* *** MULTICOMM'94 CONFERENCE PROCEEDINGS *** ********************************************* ********************************************* __________________________________________________________ MULTICOMM'94 - The Conference on Multimedia Solutions for Business and Education", NOVEMBER 2&3, 1994, VANCOUVER, CANADA ____________________________________________________________ If you were unable to attend Multicomm'94 but would like a copy of the proceedings, please fill out and FAX/Mail the form below along with VISA or MASTERCARD or your CHEQUE in the amount of $45.00 Canadian ____________________________________________________________ Price includes the over 250 page proceedings, a nifty black canvas briefcase with the MULTICOMM'94 and Electronic Arts Logo in white on one side, and all postage, handling and taxes. ____________________________________________________________ Content for this years proceedings includes the following authors and thier papers: KEYNOTE: Nicholas Negroponte, Director MIT Media Lab (bio only) ÒVIZAbility: A central literacy for the information ageÓ Dr. Kristina Hooper Woolsey, Distinguished Scientist, Apple Computer, Inc., Cupertino, California, USA (plenary-abstract only) ÒHow the Information Highway will Transform EducationÓ Dr. Kim Henry Veltman, Director, Perspective Unit, The McLuhan Program in Culture and Technology, University of Toronto, Toronto, Ontario, Canada ÒFrom Infobahn to Interactivity - Who is going to pay for it?Ó (plenary-abstract only, paper available) Kenneth Lim, Chairman & Chief Futurist, CyberMedia Group Cupertino, California, USA ÒWhere Rubber Hits the Information HighwayÓ Duncan C. Card, Barrister & Solicitor, Lang Michener, Toronto, Ontario, Canada ÒSeeing the Forest and the Trees: Implementing Decentralized Multimedia TrainingÓ Janet Adams, Manager, Mapping and Design Section, B.C. Ministry of Forests, Victoria, British Columbia, Canada ÒCommunication and the Collaborative ProcessÓ Beth Agnew, Writer, Editor, Multimedia Designer, Agnew Communications, Victoria, British Columbia, Canada ÒMarketing Multimedia - a Toolkit for the 90ÕsÓ Catharine Arnston, President - Software Studio, Boston, Massachusetts, USA ÒConsumer Centered CommunicationsÓ Alan W. Aylward, President - Forevergreen Television and Film Productions Inc., Toronto, Ontario, Canada ÒDesigning by wire - an end to frequent flyer pointsÓ Gary Blakeley, Graphic Designer/Faculty - Emily Carr Institute of Art and Design, Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada ÒThe Back End of a Multimedia TitleÓ Bob Boiko, President - Bobko Industries, Inc., Seattle, Washington, USA ÒA New Spin on TrainingÓ Marie Burlinson, President - RJM Multimedia Inc., Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada ÒArt and Technology in PracticeÓ Kathleen Chmelewski/Nan Goggin/Joseph Squier, Faculty members University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, Illinois, USA ÒBotswana Life! A Five-Week MiracleÓ Alan Dickeson, Jan Miers, Media Production,Coordinator/Technical Support Analyst University of Victoria, Victoria, British Columbia, Canada ÒEnsuring Learning When Using Technology For Instruction: The medium is not the messageÓ Kerry Elfstrom, Instructional Development Specialist, BC TEL Burnaby, British Columbia, Canada ÒThe Differences Between CD-ROMs and VideodiscsÓ Peter Fenrich, Interactive Multimedia Development Centre Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada ÒA Distributed Multimedia Architecture for Intent-Based Video Authoring and PresentingÓ Kellog S. Booth, Andrew Csinger, Steve Gribble, Department of Computer SciencesUniversity of British Columbia, Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada ÒPliable Authoring Tools for Interactive Media: An Investigation into Design, Application and ValueÓ Paul D. Hibbitts, Republic Software Design, Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada ÒATIE: An Interactive Learning Environment Using Multimedia, Database Technology, and Artificial IntelligenceÓ Russell R. Irving, Computer Scientist, GE Corporate Research and Development, Schenectady, New York, USA ÒCollaborative Learning: Teaching Ethical Theory in a Computerized Case-Study FormatÓ Dr. Patrick Kelly, Christopher G. Smith, Mark W. Bridges, Professor / Research Scientist I / Research Assistant School of International Affairs, Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta, Georgia, USA ÒCustomization and Delivery of Multimedia InformationÓ Dr. Bob Kummerfeld, Janet Kay, Associate Professor / Senior Lecturer, Basser Department of Computer Science, University of Sydney, Sydney, Australia ÒWho put the Hype in HyperMedia?Ó Shane Lunny, President, Lunny Communications Group, Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada (abstract only) ÒCreating CD ROMs Means Creating PartnershipsÓ Debra McAdam, Communications Officer, Education Program Greater Vancouver Regional District, Burnaby, Canada ÒReal World WritingÓ Sam McMillan, Interactive designer, Copywriter, Project Manager, San Francisco, California, USA ÒIÕNetÕs Multimedia Information eXchange (MiX)Ó David Metcalf, DM2> DESIGN, New York, NY, USA ÒExpertise Modeling: A Transparent Tool for LearningÓ Myra Peterson, Instructional Designer, Ministry of Forests Victoria, British Columbia, Canada ÒPractical Applications of Three Dimensional ImagingÓ Dr. Griff Richards, Interactive Media Projects Leader, British Columbia Institute of Technology, Burnaby, British Columbia, Canada ÒThe Information Explosion - a Bomb or a Source of Power?Ó Rick Sharpe, President, Sharpe MetaMedia Inc., Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada ÒSoftware Escrow: A Solution to Multimedia Legal IssuesÓ Bea Strickland, SOURCEFILE, San Francisco, California, USA ________________________________________________________ PAYMENT FORM FOR MULTICOMM'94 PROCEEDINGS ---Cut along this line and return with Payment--- ************************************************** >>>>>>>>MULTICOMM'94 PROCEEDINGS PAYMENT FORM <<<<<<<<<< PERSONAL INFORMATION: Name______________________________________________ Company___________________________________________ Address___________________________________________ City______________________________________________ Province/State____________________________________ Zip_____________________________ PHONE: Day________________________________ Evening____________________________ FAX________________________________ E-mail Address________________________________ ________________________________________________________ METHOD OF PAYMENT: ___Cheque/Money Order (payable to UBC) ___Cash (for pre-registration in person) ____Visa __ __ __ __-__ __ __-__ __ __-__ __ __ ____MasterCard __ __ __ __-__ __ __ __-__ __ __ __-__ __ __ __ Valid Date____________________ Expiry Date____________________ I authorize UBC to charge the above amount to my credit card Signature: _________________________________________________ MAIL APPLICATION WITH PAYMENT TO: Conference PROCEEDINGS - MultiComm`94 The University of British Columbia Continuing Studies 5997 Iona Drive, Vancouver, B.C., Canada, V6T 1Z1 Phone:(604) 822-1431 (Vicki Ayerbe) Fax: (604) 822-1449 E-mail: multicomm@cce.ubc.ca Attn: Vicki Ayerbe ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 30 Nov 1994 10:53:53 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: thompson@sun1.coe.ttu.edu Subject: comp.programming.literate FAQ Date: 30 Nov 1994 12:36:03 GMT Message-ID: Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, thompson@sun1.coe.ttu.edu To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU Archive-name: literate-programming-faq Last-modified: 1994/08/23 Version: 1.1.10 Welcome to the Literate Programming Frequently Asked Questions List ------------------------------------------------------------------- This version was created Tuesday, August 23, 1994, and should considered stale after 90 days. Information contained in this document is the best available at preparation. The original file was dated October 15, 1993 (just for historical purposes). Disclaimer: "This FAQ is presented with no warranties or guarantees of ANY KIND including correctness or fitness for any particular purpose. The author of this document has attempted to verify correctness of the data contained herein; however, slip-ups can and do happen. If you use this data, you do so at your own risk." Copyright 1993, 1994 David B. Thompson. All rights reserved worldwide. Permission is granted to copy this document for free distribution so long as it remains intact and unmodified. For other arrangements, contact the author/maintainer via email: thompson@sun1.coe.ttu.edu. What's New? ----------- + Add Fold2Web entry. + Correct noweb.el entry. (Thanks Dominique!) + Update nuweb.el entry. + Update SchemeWEB entry. + Update WWW and literate programming entry. + Update c2cweb entry. = ====================================================================== * Introduction or "What's this all about?" ------------------------------------------ This document is for new and experienced users of literate programming tools. The purpose is to explain the concept of literate programming and to provide a resource for locating files of interest to literate programmers and those interested in literate programming. The Literate Programming (LitProg) Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) list is maintained by Dave Thompson, who can be reached at: thompson@sun1.coe.ttu.edu * Preferred mailing address for FAQ related comments/questions. wqdbt@ttacs1.ttu.edu * Forwarded to my pc. Comment and constructive criticism is welcome. Direct flames to /dev/null (or > nul if you're a msdos user! ;-) If you find an error, please report it. I'm particularly interested in establishing the locations of generally available literate programming tools. If you are the author of such a tool and wish to have it included in this list, please send email. Please note this is a work-in-progress. It is *not* complete, and probably will not be complete for some months. Nevertheless, the information contained herein may be useful to some. Use it as it is intended. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - Typography ------------ Major sections of the FAQ are divided by double lines (====). Minor sections and other divisions are separated by single lines (----). Major topics use a "* " as a leader. Minor topics use a "- " as a leader. This should simplify searching for topics. = ====================================================================== Table of Contents: ------------------ * Introduction, or "What's this all about?" - Typography * How do I get the FAQ? - Literate Programming FAQ - FWEB FAQ * Is there a newsgroup? (The comp.programming.literate newsgroup) * What internet nodes are of interest to literate programmers? * What is literate programming? * How do I begin literate programming? * What literate programming tools are available and where are they? - APLWEB - AWEB - CLiP - CWEB - FunnelWeb - FWEB - IMPACT - lit2x - Literate Programmer's Workshop (LPW) - MapleWEB - MWEB (Schrod/Detig) - MWEB (Sewell) - noweb - nuweb - ProTeX - RWEB - SchemeWEB - Spidery WEB - WEB - WinWordWEB * Are there other tools I should know about? - C2LaTeX - c2cweb - c2man - cnoweb - Fold2web - FunnelWeb mode - noweb.el - nuweb.el - TIE - Web mode * What other resources are available? - World Wide Web - TeX Resources - Virtual Coursework * Are there any code examples? - Examples included with developer's tools - Cameron Smith's KR-CWEB - Stanford GraphBase * Bibliographies. * How to anonymously ftp. * Acknowledgements. * End notes. = ====================================================================== * How do I get the FAQ? ----------------------- - Literate Programming FAQ -------------------------- You have many ways to get a current copy of this FAQ. One is to use anonymous ftp (if you don't know how, see a later section in this FAQ) to connect to one of the Comprehensive TeX Arvchive Network (CTAN) sites or the Literate Programming Archive and retrieve a copy of the file. Open an ftp connection to one of the CTAN sites and retrieve the file: help/LitProg-FAQ (For more information on CTAN and the literate programming archive, see the section below entitled "Internet Nodes of Interest to Literate Programmers.") An alternative is to use the fileserver at Sam Houston State University (SHSU). Send a message to FILESERV@SHSU.EDU and include in your message: SENDME LITPROG.FAQ The file server will forward a copy of the file to you via email. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - FWEB FAQ ---------- Marcus Speh maintains the FWEB FAQ. The current version number is 1.29. It can be retrieved in the same way as this FAQ; either by anonymous ftp or through the SHSU file server. On the SHSU server, the file name is FAQ.FWEB. Invoke your ftp software, open a connection to NIORD.SHSU.EDU [192.92.115.8], attach to the directory FAQ, and transfer the file FAQ.FWEB. Alternatively, send a message to the file server, FILESERV@SHSU.EDU, and include the following text in a one line message: SENDME FAQ.FWEB The file server will send the current version of the file via email. The FWEB FAQ exists in various formats, including HyperText (see other resources below). In Europe, the complete distribution can also be obtained from ftp.desy.de [131.169.10.115] in directory /pub/faq/web/fweb/. It is also available from the literate programming archive (LPA) in the directory LPA/Documentation/faq/fweb (see the references to LPA below for more information). Also, Marcus Speh is looking for someone willing to take over the FWEB FAQ. The text of his email message follows... "Please add to the FWEB FAQ the note that I am looking for someone to take the maintenance of the FAQ over - I am ready to assist in any way whatsoever, including tons of mail, notes for v1.29->v1.30, Texinfo sources, a WWW server and Hypertextification etc." If you're interested, send mail to marcus@x4u2.desy.de and express your willingness to serve. = ====================================================================== * Is there a newsgroup? ----------------------- One of the most important resources is the literate programming newsgroup, comp.programming.literate. You can read this newsgroup using your standard reader. Altenatively, the newsgroup is gated to a mailing list hosted by George Greenwade and Sam Houston State University. You can subscribe by sending mail to the list-server, LISTSERV@SHSU.EDU, and include in the message one line of text: SUBSCRIBE LITPROG "your name in quotes" The list is unmoderated; messages sent to litprog@shsu.edu are automatically distributed to all subscribers and cross-posted to comp.programming.literate. Archives of the mailing list and newsgroup are maintained on niord.shsu.edu [192.92.115.8] in the directory litprog. = ====================================================================== * What internet nodes are of interest to literate programmers? -------------------------------------------------------------- The principal nodes of interest to literate programmers are the Literate Programming Archive (LPA hereafter) and the CTAN (Comprehensive TeX Archive Network). The Literate Programming Archive (LPA) is: Node: ftp.th-darmstadt.de [130.83.55.75] Directory: programming/literate-programming Notes: Fastest response during off-U.S. [yep] business hours. The CTAN sites are: ftp host IP CTAN root Institution and Sponsor ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ftp.tex.ac.uk 134.151.79.32 pub/archive Aston Univ./UK TeX U.G. ftp.dante.de 129.206.100.192 soft/tex DANTE e.V. ftp.shsu.edu 192.92.115.10 tex-archive Sam Houston State Univ. Other nodes and directories of interest include: Node: niord.shsu.edu [192.92.115.8] Directory: various (do some snooping!) Notes: Has a gopher server. Node: ftp.desy.de [131.169.10.115] Directory: pub/web. Various documents, samples, and the FWEB FAQ. Notes: Has a www server, http://info.desy.de:80/ = ====================================================================== * What is Literate Programming? ------------------------------- Literate programming is the combination of documentation and source together in a fashion suited for reading by human beings. In fact, literate programs should be enjoyable reading, even inviting! (Sorry Bob, I couldn't resist!) In general, literate programs combine source and documentation in a single file. Literate programming tools then parse the file to produce either readable documentation or compilable source. The WEB style of literate programming was created by D.E. Knuth during the development of his TeX typsetting software. All the original work revolves around a particular literate programming tool called WEB. Knuth says: The philosophy behind WEB is that an experienced system programmer, who wants to provide the best possible documentation of his or her software products, needs two things simultaneously: a language like TeX for formatting, and a language like C for programming. Neither type of language can provide the best documentation by itself; but when both are appropriately combined, we obtain a system that is much more useful than either language separately. The structure of a software program may be thought of as a web that is made up of many interconnected pieces. To document such a program we want to explain each individual part of the web and how it relates to its neighbours. The typographic tools provided by TeX give us an opportunity to explain the local structure of each part by making that structure visible, and the programming tools provided by languages such as C or Fortran make it possible for us to specify the algorithms formally and unambigously. By combining the two, we can develop a style of programming that maximizes our ability to perceive the structure of a complex piece of software, and at the same time the documented programs can be mechanically translated into a working software system that matches the documentation. Another author (Eric W. van Ammers) wrote me a short article treating his opinions on literate programming. The text follows: First observation on LP About 90% of the disussion on this list is about problems with applying some WEB-family member to a particular programming language or a special documentation situation. This is ridiculous, I think. Let me explain shortly why... Lemma 1: I have proposed for many years that programming has nothing to do with programming langauges, i.e. a good programmer makes good programs in any language (given some time to learn the syntax) and a bad programmer will never make a good program, no matter the language he uses (today many people share this view, fortunately). Lemma 2: Literate Programming has (in a certain way not yet completely understood) to do with essential aspects of programming. Conclusion 1: A LP-tool should be independent of programming language. Lemma 3: It seems likely that the so called BOOK FORMAT PARADIGM [ref. 1] plays an important role in making literate programs work. Lemma 4: There are very many documentation systems currently being used to produce documents in the BOOK FORMAT. Conclusion 2: A LP-tool should be independent of the documentation system that the program author whishes to use. My remark some time ago that we should discuss the generic properties of an LP-tool was based on the above observation. References: [1] Paul W. Oman and Curtus Cook. Typographical style is more than cosmetic. CACM 33, 5, 506-520 (May 1990) Second observation on LP The idea of a literate program as a text book should be extendend even further. I would like to see a literate program as an (in)formal argument of the correctness of the program. Thus a literate program should be like a textbook on mathematicics. A mathematical textbook explains a theory in terms of lemma and theorems. But the proofs are never formal in the sense that they are obtaind by symbol manipulation of a proof checker. Rather the proofs are by so called "informal rigour", i.e. by very precise and unambiguous sentences in a natural language. Eric W. van Ammers Department of Computer Science Wageningen Agricultural University Dreijenplein 2 E-mail: ammers@rcl.wau.nl 6703 HB Wageningen voice: +31 (0)8370 83356/84154 The Netherlands fax: +31 (0)8370 84731 = ====================================================================== * How do I begin literate programming? -------------------------------------- A recommended book is D.E. Knuth's collection of articles (1992) "Literate Programming," Center for the Study of Language and Information, Stanford University, ISBN 0-937073-80-6 (pbk). This book gives insight into Knuth's thoughts as he developed the web system of literate programming (and TeX for typesetting). It does not document methods for literate programming. A recommended book is Wayne Sewell's (1989) "Weaving a Program: Literate Programming in WEB," Van Nostrand Reinhold, ISBN 0-442-31946-0 (pbk). This book focuses on using Knuth's web system. Some talk exists in the newsgroup/mailing list for a Usenet University course in literate programming. I'm sure discussion of this topic will be welcomed. If you are interested, please participate. = ====================================================================== * What literate programming tools are available and where are they? ------------------------------------------------------------------- A significant number of tools for literate programming are available. Most have been ported from their original systems, so support multiple computer platforms. If you are the developer of such a tool, and would like to make the software freely available, please send me email and I'll reply with a form (like those below) for you to fill in. (Or short-circuit the process and kludge a form from below. :-) - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - APLWEB -------- Developer: Christoph von Basum Version: Unknown Hardware: MSDOS Languages: IBM APL2 and STSC APL Formatter: Plain TeX Availability: Anonymous ftp from: LPA:/apl watserv1.uwaterloo.ca:/languages/apl/aplweb Readme: Unknown Description: None available. Support: Unknown Note: The status of this particular package is unknown. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - AWEB ------ Developer: Unknown Version: Unknown Hardware: Unknown Languages: Ada Formatter: Unknown Availability: Anonymous ftp from: LPA:/ada/web Readme: Unknown Description: None available Support: Not supported. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - CLiP ------ Developer: E.W. van Ammers and M.R. Kramer Version: Unknown Hardware: Vax/VMS, Unix, and MS-DOS Languages: Any programming language. Formatter: Any formatter (TeX, LaTeX, Troff, Runoff, etc) or any wordprocessor including WYSIWYG systems (Word Perfect, Win Word, Ami Pro, Word, etc.) Availability: Anonymous ftp from: sun01.info.wau.nl:/CLIP/ms_dos MS-DOS version sun01.info.wau.nl:/CLIP/vax_vms VAX/VMS version CTAN:/web/clip LPA:/machines/ms-dos LPA:/machines/vax Readme: With bundle above Description: CLiP does not use explicite commands to perform the extraction process. Rather it recognizes pseudostatemens written as comments in the programming language in question. CLiP distinguishes pseudostatments from ordinary comments because the former comply with a a particular style. This style can be adjusted to suit virtually any programming language. The CLiP approach to LP makes the system extremely versatile. It is independent of programming language and text processing environment. We designed CLiP to be compatible with hypertext systems as well but we have not yet experimented with this form of documentation. Features: + CLiP imposes virtually no limitations on the text-processing system used to produce the documentation. If the text-processor supports these items you can + structure the documentation according to your own taste. + include drawings, pictures, tables etc. + disclose your documentatio my means of X-ref tables, Indexes, Table of contents, Table of tables, Table of figures, etc. + typeset the documented code. + Extracts any number of modules from a maximum of 64 source files. + No pretty-printing. Code from the source files is copied "as is" to the module. + Appearance of code segments in the documentation matches those of the modules to ease the identification of code segements. + Supports partially specified data types. + Comprehensive user manual (preliminary version) and technical description. - No automatic generation of a X-ref table for program identifiers. Support: Bugs, problems and assistance by e-mail: ammers@rcl.wau.nl - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - CWEB ------ Developer: Silvio Levy and D.E. Knuth Version: 3.0 Hardware: Unix systems (dos and amiga ports available) Languages: C and C++ Formatter: Plain TeX and LaTeX. Availability: Anonymous ftp from: labrea.stanford.edu:/pub/cweb LPA:/c.c++ CTAN:/web/c_cpp/cweb DOS version in CTAN:/web/c_cpp/cwb30p8c DOS version in LPA:/machines/ms-dos Amiga version CTAN:/web/c_cpp/AmigaCWEB Mac port of CTANGLE in LPA:/machines/mac LaTeX support in LPA:/c.c++ Readme: Bundled with above Description: No description provided. Support: Bugs to levy@math.berkeley.edu Note: A fork of CWEB 3.x was developed by Marc van Leeuwen which implements several changes to CWEB. It is available for anonymous ftp from ftp.cwi.nl:pub/cweb. The principle changes are: - Scans include files for typedef definitions - Grammar and formatting rules are well separated, allowing for run-time selection of a rule set (via command line option) - New manual. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - FunnelWeb ----------- Developer: Ross N. Williams: ross@guest.adelaide.edu.au Version: Unknown Hardware: MSDOS, Mac, VMS, Sun. Other ports reported. Languages: No restrictions. Formatter: Plain TeX for printing. Otherwise, no restrictions. Availability: Anonymous ftp from: CTAN:/web/funnelweb LPA:/independent ftp.adelaide.edu.au:/pub/funnelweb Readme: With bundle above. Description: FunnelWeb is a production-quality literate-programming tool that emphasises simplicity and reliability. Everything about FunnelWeb, from the simplicity of its language to the comprehensive tutorial in the user's manual, has been designed to make this as simple, as practical, and as usable a tool as possible. Features: + Provides a simple macro preprocessor facility. + Can produce typeset documentation. + Runs on Sun, VMS VAX, Macintosh, PC, and others. + Portable C source code distributed under GNU licence. + Comprehensive user's manual including tutorial. + Programming-language independent. + Can generate multiple output files. + Allows complete control over the output text. + Regression test suite with over 200 tests. + Fully worked example (in /pub/funnelweb/examples). - Requires TeX to produce typeset documentation. - Typesets program code using TT font only. Support: No formal support available. Mailing list maintained with about 50 subscribers. Informal assistance available from mailing list. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - FWEB ------ Developer: John A. Krommes Version: 1.30a (1.40 for the experienced, patient, and brave) Hardware: Unix, VMS, and DOS platforms (anything with ANSI C) Languages: C, C++, Fortran-77, Fortran-90, Ratfor, TeX; also, a language-independent mode. Formatter: Plain TeX and LaTeX. Availability: Anonymous ftp from: ftp.pppl.gov:/pub/fweb CTAN:/web/fweb LPA:/fweb DOS version in LPA:/machines/ms-dos Readme: In bundle with above. Description: It also has a well-developed user's manual and its own FAQ (see above). Beginning with 1.40, documentation is maintained in gnu texinfo format. It runs on most platforms: VMS, PC, UNIX, and pretty much anything that the GNU C compiler (GCC) is supported for. Features: + Processes multiple languages during a single run (so one can mix C and Fortran, for example). + Language-independent mode (v1.40). + Ability to turn off pretty-printing (v1.40). + Built-in Ratfor translator. + Built-in macro preprocessor (closely follows ANSI C, with extensions). + A style file that allows the user to adjust many parameters and behavior patterns of FWEB. + Various operator-overloading features that provide additional pretty-printing capabilities to languages such as C++ and Fortran-90. + Numerous miscellaneous features and command-line options. Support: Bug reports and suggestions to krommes@princeton.edu - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - IMPACT -------- Developer: Timothy Larkin, from Levy/Knuth CWEB 3.1 Version: 1.0 Hardware: Macintosh; requires AppleEvents. Languages: C, C++ Formatter: TeX Availability: CTAN archives Readme: A short readme file is included in the SEA archive. Description: IMPACT implements CTangle from the Levy/Knuth CWEB 3.1. It operates as a foreground program, tangling files selected from the Mac File Picker. Or it can operate in the background, tangling files in response to odoc events sent by other applications, such as editors. Support: I welcome any reports of bugs. The product will be updated as new versions of the CWEB appear. Other features may be added as users suggest them. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - lit2x ------- Developer: Unknown Version: Unknown Hardware: Unknown Languages: Unknown Formatter: Unknown Availability: Anonymous ftp from: LPA:/independent Readme: Unknown Description: None available Support: Unknown - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - Literate Programmer's Workshop (LPW) -------------------------------------- Developer: Norbert Lindenberg Version: 1.1 Hardware: Apple Macintosh Languages: C++, Object Pascal & others Formatter: self-contained WYSIWYG system Availability: Anonymous ftp from: LPA:/machines/mac CTAN:/web/lpw ftp.apple.com:/pub/literate.prog Readme: With bundle above. Also comes with 38-page manual. Description: The Literate Programming Workshop is an environment for the integrated development of program source text and documentation in combined documents. It consists of a WYSIWYG word processor based on a style sheet approach, a mechanism to extract parts of the text in a document, and a project management system that handles multi-document projects. The system is designed to be used in conjunction with the Macintosh Programmer's Workshop: it prepares raw source text for the MPW compilers, accepts MPW error messages, and shows them in the context of the original documents. Automatic indexing and hypertext features allow for easy access to both source text and documentation. LPW is shareware. Support: Bugs, problems, and questions to lpw@aol.com. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - MapleWEB ---------- Developer: Unknown Version: Unknown Hardware: Unknown Languages: Maple Formatter: Unknown Availability: Anonymous ftp from: LPA:/maple Readme: Unknown Description: None Support: Unknown - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - MWEB (Schrod/Detig) --------------------- Developer: Joachim Schrod Version: Unknown Hardware: Unknown Languages: Modula-2 Formatter: Unknown Availability: Anonymous ftp from: LPA:/modula-2 Readme: Unknown Description: None Support: Not supported. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - MWEB (Sewell) --------------- Developer: Sewell Version: Unknown Hardware: Unknown Languages: Modula-2 Formatter: Unknown Availability: Anonymous ftp from: LPA:/modula-2 Readme: Unknown Description: None Support: Not supported. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - noweb ------- Developer: Norman Ramsey Version: 2.6 Hardware: Unix and DOS platforms. Languages: All programming languages. Formatter: Plain TeX, LaTeX, and HTML (Mosaic) formatters. Availability: Anonymous ftp from: CTAN:/web/noweb LPA:/independent DOS version also in LPA:/machines/ms-dos also bart.kean.edu:/pub/leew Last recourse, use bellcore.com:/pub/norman Readme: With bundle above. Description: noweb is designed to meet the needs of literate programmers while remaining as simple as possible. Its primary advantages are simplicity, extensibility, and language-independence. noweb uses 5 control sequences to WEB's 27. noweb now supports indexing and identifier cross-reference, including hypertext ``hot links'' courtesy of Mosaic. The simple noweb manual is only 2 pages; documenting the full power of noweave and notangle requires another 3 pages. noweb works ``out of the box'' with any programming language, and its formatter-dependent part is a 60-line nawk program. The primary sacrifice relative to WEB is the loss of prettyprinting. Support: email to the author - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - nuweb ------- Developer: Preston Briggs: preston@cs.rice.edu Version: 0.87 Hardware: Unix systems: Sparcs, RS/6000s, HPs; (!) MSDOS and Amiga. Languages: Any programming language or combination of programming languages. Formatter: Latex Availability: Anonymous ftp from: Unix: CTAN:/web/nuweb DOS: CTAN:/web/nuweb-pc LPA:/independent Amiga: CTAN:/web/nuweb/nuweb_ami Amiga: wuarchive.wustl.edu/pub/aminet Readme: Send mail to preston@cs.rice.edu Description: A single program that takes a web file written in a combination of latex and any programming language(s) and produces a latex file that can be pretty printed and a set of files containing code for compilation/interpretation by the appropriate language processors. Strengths include speed, simplicity, multiple languages, nice indices and cross-references, latex. Doesn't require any special macros or macro files. Drawbacks: latex-dependent, no code pretty printing, harder to make indices than cweb. More good stuff: nice support for make, doesn't reformat source files, so they're easy to debug. Lots of control without too much effort. That is, it doesn't do too much! Future directions... Very little change planned, except perhaps refinements in the indexing software. Support: Hack it yourself or send e-mail to preston@cs.rice.edu - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - ProTeX -------- Developer: Eitan Gurari Version: 1.1 (AlProTeX 1.2) Hardware: Any platform with TeX (ProTeX is written in TeX) Languages: Any language Formatter: TeX and LaTeX Availability: Anonymous ftp from: ftp.cis.ohio-state.edu : pub/tex/osu/gurari/ LPA:/independent Readme: Unknown Description: There is a book published on using ProTeX, @Book{Gurari:TLD94, author = "Eitan M. Gurari", title = "{\TeX} and {\LaTeX}: Drawing and Literate Programming", publisher = pub-MH, year = "1994", address = pub-MH:adr, bibdate = "Wed Sep 29 17:55:14 1993", acknowledgement = ack-nhfb, } Support: gurari@cis.ohio-state.edu - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - RWEB ------ Developer: Unknown Version: Unknown Hardware: Unknown Languages: Unknown Formatter: Unknown Availability: Anonymous ftp from: LPA:/reduce Readme: Unknown Description: Web generator in AWK. Support: Unknown - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - SchemeWEB ----------- Developer: John D. Ramsdell Version: 2.1 Hardware: Unix and DOS platforms Languages: Any dialect of Lisp. Formatter: LaTeX. Availability: The Unix version is in the Scheme Repository and it is available via anonymous ftp from: cs.indiana.edu:/pub/scheme-repository/utl/schemeweb.sh LPA:/lisp CTAN:/tex-archive/web/schemeweb The DOS version is part of the PCS/Geneva Scheme system which is available via anonymous ftp from: cui.unige.ch:/pub/pcs LPA:/machines/ms-dos Readme: In bundle with above. Description: SchemeWEB is a Unix filter that allows you to generate both Lisp and LaTeX code from one source file. The generated LaTeX code formats Lisp programs in typewriter font obeying the spacing in the source file. Comments can include arbitrary LaTeX commands. SchemeWEB was originally developed for the Scheme dialect of Lisp, but it can easily be used with most other dialects. Support: Bug reports to ramsdell@mitre.org. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - SpideryWEB ------------ Developer: Norman Ramsey Version: Unknown Hardware: Unix and DOS platforms Languages: Most Algol-like languages, including C, Ada, Pascal, Awk, and many others. Formatter: Plain TeX and latex for text formatters. Availability: Anonymous ftp from: CTAN LPA:/spiderweb Readme: In distribution. Description: A system for building language-dependent WEBs. Spider is frozen; no further development is planned. Support: Bug reports to spider-bugs@oracorp.com. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - WEB ----- Developer: Donald Knuth Version: Unknown Hardware: Unknown Languages: Pascal Formatter: TeX (of course! ;-) Availability: Anonymous ftp from: LPA:/pascal Readme: Unknown Description: This is the original software that started it all. The original TeX processor was written in WEB. Support: None known. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - WinWordWEB ------------ Developer: Lee Wittenberg Version: Unknown Hardware: Needs Microsoft Word for Windows, v.2.x, and, of course, MS-Windows 3.x. Languages: Any programming language. Formatter: Word for Windows 2.x for text formatting and file maintenance. Availability: Anonymous ftp from: bart.kean.edu:pub/leew LPA:/machines/ms-dos World-Wide Web (WWW) Readme: WORDWEB.DOC in the downloadable package describes the system. Description: WinWordWEB is a set of a Word for Windows macros (plus a paragraph style) that provide a crude literate programming environment. The ``look and feel'' of the system is based on Norman Ramsey's noweb, but can easily be modified to suit individual tastes. Support: None. WinWordWEB was written as a prototype to see if a WYSIWYG literate programming system was possible. It is intended as a jumping off point for future work by others. However, the system is surprisingly usable as it stands, and the author is interested in hearing from users (satisfied and dissatisfied). Anyone interested in actively supporting (and improving) the product should contact the author via email. = ====================================================================== * Are there other tools I should know about? -------------------------------------------- First of all, I'll list some not-quite-literate-programming tools. Some may consider these to be pretty-printers. Others may call them literate programming tools. In any event, they don't seem to be quite in the same category as the tools listed above, so I'll include them here. - C2LaTeX --------- Developer: John D. Ramsdell Version: Unknown Hardware: Unix Languages: C Formatter: LaTeX but it's easy to change the formatter. Availability: Anonymous ftp from omnigate.clarkson.edu:/pub/tex/tex-programs/c2latex. Readme: Absent. Documentation is in the C source for c2latex. Description: C2latex provides simple support for literate programming in C. Given a C source file in which the comments have been written in LaTeX, c2latex converts the C source file into a LaTeX source file. It can be used to produce typeset listings of C programs and/or documentation associated with the program. C2latex produces LaTeX source by implementing a small number of rules. A C comment that starts at the beginning of a line is copied unmodified into the LaTeX source file. Otherwise, non-blank lines are surrounded by a pair of formatting commands (\begin{flushleft} and \end{flushleft}), and the lines are separated by \\*. Each non-blank line is formatted using LaTeX's \verb command, except comments within the line are formatted in an \mbox. Support: Send bug reports to ramsdell@mitre.org. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - c2cweb -------- Developer: Werner Lemberg Version: 1.4 Hardware: DOS, OS/2, Unix (gcc) - CWEB source included Languages: C, C++ Formatter: TeX Availability: Anonymous ftp from CTAN:/web/c_cpp/c2cweb Readme: In distribution. Description: c2cweb will transform plain C or C++ code into a CWEB file to get a pretty formatted output. A modified CWEAVE (which transforms the CWEB file into a TeX file, see below) is included also. Support: Werner Lemberg - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - c2man ------- Developer: Graham Stoney Version: 2.0 patchlevel 26 Hardware: Unix, MSDOS, OS/2. Languages: C Formatter: nroff -man, texinfo (requires yacc/byacc/bison, lex/flex, and nroff/groff/texinfo/LaTeX). Availability: Anonymous ftp from ftp.wustl.edu: /usenet/comp.sources.reviewed/volume03/c2man* ftp.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de: /pub/archive/comp.sources/reviewed/c2man* Readme: See distribution. Description: The primary philosophy here is to use the programming language as far as possible to express the programmer's intentions, and to use comments only when the programming language is not sufficiently expressive. A comment can then become part of the language grammar which is recognised by a "documentation compiler". This tool parses a superset of the programming language and can automatically generate documentation in human-readable form by associating the programmer's comments with the objects in the code by their context. Support: Actively supported; mailing list available: send "subscribe c2man " (in the message body) to listserv@research.canon.oz.au. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - cnoweb -------- Developer: Jim Fox Version: 1.4 (January 4, 1991) Hardware: Anything with C and TeX. Languages: C Formatter: Plain TeX. Availability: Anonymous ftp from: CTAN LPA:/c.c++ Readme: Unknown, cnoweb.tex contains documentation. Description: cnoweb is as it's name describes: write C, not web. No tangling or weaving is implemented. Documentation (between standard /* */ delimiteres) is written in TeX. cnoweb provides typesetting of documentation, an table of contents of routines, and pretty-printing of C source. Support: None known. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - Fold2Web ---------- Developer: Bernhard Lang Version: V0.8 Hardware: MSDOS Languages: All (must allow comment lines) Formatter: LaTeX Availability: Anonymous ftp from: kirk.ti1.tu-harburg.de (134.28.41.50) /pub/fold2web/readme /pub/fold2web/fold2web.zip Readme: In distribution Description: The idea behind the Fold2Web tool is the following: A programmer can write his program source with a folding editor and later map the folded source files automatically to WEB-files. The generated WEB-files can then be modified by inserting required documentations. The advantage by starting program developement with original sources is to get short design cycles during the compile/debug steps. By using a folding editor the global structuring information can be already captured in folds during this developement phase. Fold information is typically stored in comment lines and thus will not affect the efficiency of the compile/debug design cycle. Some folding editors and a folding mode for the emacs are available (e.g. see our FUE folding editor for MSDOS machines which is a modified micro emacs. Pick it at kirk in directory /pub/fold2web). After reaching a stable version of a program source its time to convert the source file to a WEB-file and do the program documentation. Fold2Web is written to convert folded source text of any programming language to nuweb files. The folded structure is kept by mapping folds to scraps. Fold markers which differ between languages due to different ways of specifying comments can be configured for each language. Good results can also achived when given but poor documented program sources have to be modified. Such sources can be folded using a folding editor to extract the global structures. This offers a global view to the program structures and help to understand its functionality. Furthermore the program code is not affected, only comment lines are inserted. Once folded the program source can be automatically translated to a WEB document using the above tool. Support: email to lang@tu-harburg.d400.de - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - Funnelweb Mode ---------------- Developer: Daniel Simmons Version: Unknown Availability: Litprog archives (was in email) Anonymous ftp from: ftp.imada.ou.dk Description: The other day I did a quick hack to nuweb.el as included with the nuweb distribution so as to make a funnelweb-mode.el. I've only used it briefly, and I'm sure that it can be improved quite a bit. I've been thinking about adding support for folding on sections, a pull-down menu to select macro definitions (like the recent functions posted to gnu.emacs.sources for a C function definition pull-down menu) and some kind of tags support for funnelweb. Support: Unknown - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - noweb.el ---------- Developer: Bruce Stephens Version: Unknown. Availability: LitProg archives (in an email message). Description: This is a very simple mode I just hacked up. There's a lot wrong with it, but I thought others may be interested, even as it stands. It *requires* text properties, and assumes those used in GNU Emacs 19.22; it'll quite likely work with Lucid Emacs, but I haven't tried it. I use it with auctex8.1 and cc-mode 3.229, both of which are loaded separately (I think my emacs is dumped with them, in fact). The idea is to have one mode (which calls itself c-mode, but actually has LaTeX-mode keybindings) generally (this means that the code is hilighted nicely), and have the code chunks use a different keymap. Support: Email to bruce@liverpool.ac.uk - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - nuweb.el ---------- Developer: Dominique de Waleffe Version: 1.99 Availability: Anonymous ftp from: LPA CTAN Description: Provides a major mode extending Auctex for editing nuweb files. Main features (in 2.0): - Edit scrap bodies in a separate buffer in a different mode (selected using emacs defaults for files, specific indication -*-mode-*-, or a buffer-local variable) - Extends Auctex commands so that nuweb is called before LaTeX, - Easy navigation on scrap definition and use points. - Now creates an imenu (C-M-mouse1) with user index entries, macro definition positions and file definition positions. Support: Email to ddw@sunbim.be - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - TIE ----- Developer: Unknown Version: Unknown Hardware: Unknown Availability: Anonymous ftp from: LPA:/Tools Readme: Unknown Description: This software merges change files. Support: Unknown - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - Web mode ---------- Developer: Bart Childs Version: Unknown Tools supported: web, fweb, cweb, funnelweb Availability: Anonymous ftp from ftp.cs.tamu.edu:pub/tex-web/web/EMACS.web-mode thrain.anu.edu.au:pub/web/EMACS.web-mode Description: This version works with versions 18 and 19 of Emacs to be best of my knowledge. I have cleaned up a number of documentation items ... In the same directory is wm_refcard.tex which is an edited version of the famous one to include some web-mode commands. The files limbo* are related to its use and notice that half them have an uppercase L in them for LaTeX. The setup is based upon the fact that we (I am not alone here) primarily use FWEB for C and Fortran programming. We are using version 1.40 of FWEB although John Krommes warns that it is not mature and the manual is not yet updated. The info files are! We are using LaTeX almost exclusively. That will likely change and we will revert to version 1.30 if the final form of 1.40 cannot return to the simple section numbers and avoid the HORRIBLE LATEX 0.1.7.2.4.6 type section numbers. Support: Unknown = ====================================================================== * What other resources are available? ------------------------------------- - World Wide Web ---------------- An untapped resource (by me anyway ;-) is the World Wide Web. Marcus Speh has expended considerable effort in this regard. If you're connected to WWW, then access: http://info.desy.de:80/user/projects/LitProg.html If you aren't connected to WWW, telnet to info.cern.ch and explore. You can reach Marcus' literate programming pages by typing: go http://info.desy.de:80/user/projects/LitProg.html Help for people who have only Email and neither WWW nor telnet, can be obtained by Email from TEST-LIST@INFO.CERN.CH by sending a message, SEND , for example, SEND http://info.desy.de:80/user/projects/LitProg.html to retrieve the LitProg library page. A help file can be retrieved by sending a message to the list server above with the text HELP in the body of the message. Instructions will be returned by email. For literate programming documents, you can try anonymous ftp to ftp.desy.de [131.169.10.115] and get the file: /pub/userWWW/projects/Announce/LitProg.txt - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - TeX Resources --------------- Another resource of interest to literate programmers is the info-tex mailing list. If you're using (La)TeX as your typsetting system and have access to internet, then you should investigate this mailing list. Mail list service is available through the SHSU list-server. To subscribe, send a message to LISTSERV@SHSU.EDU, and include in the message one line of text: SUBSCRIBE INFO-TEX "your name in quotes" The list is unmoderated; messages sent to info-tex@shsu.edu are automatically distributed to all subscribers and cross-posted to comp.text.tex. Archives of the mailing list and newsgroup are maintained on niord.shsu.edu [192.92.115.8] in the directory info-tex. Another reason the TeX resources should be important is that so many of the literate programming tools rely on either plain TeX or LaTeX as their text formatter. (La)TeX software systems exist for most computing platforms. These systems can be found on CTAN and other major archive sites. Use archie to find them or simply ftp to one of the CTAN sites and browse. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - Virtual Coursework -------------------- Marcus Speh plans an introductory course on Literate Programming on the Internet, part of the first semester of "Global Network Academy" [GNA], a non-profit corporation incorporated in the state of Texas, affilated with the Usenet University project. The texts/sample programs for this class will be made available via the World-Wide Web. A special room on GNA Virtual Campus will be staffed by a consultant in one to two hour shifts. Students with questions can telnet to the virtual campus and ask questions of the staff there. If you are interested in registering for the course either as a student or as a consultant, please contact marcus@x4u.desy.de. You will receive a standard reply message; no further action will be taken until June 94. Interested parties can check the hypertext notes for the completed C++ Course done in a similar fashion, at URL http://info.desy.de:80/pub/uu-gna/html/cc/index.html [Editor's note: Because of workload, Marcus requests that email inquiries be limited to a statement of interest for either a student or consultant position until June 1994.] = ====================================================================== * Are there any code examples? ------------------------------ Examples of web programs are included with the FWEB, CWEB, and noweb distributions. nuweb is written in itself. Cameron Smith converted the K&R calculator program into a literate program. It can be retrieved by anonymous ftp from: niord.shsu.edu [192.92.115.8] directory kr-cweb-sample as krcwsamp.zip or from LPA/Documentation Ross Williams has released a funnelweb example. You can retrieve this file from node ftp.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.40.3] as /pub/funnelweb/examples/except.* This file should be on CTAN as well. Lee Wittenberg has posted a few litprog examples. They are available via anonymous ftp from: bart.kean.edu:/pub/leew/samples.LP The Stanford GraphBase is a large collection of programs by Don Knuth for doing all kinds of computations and games with graphs; it is written in (Levy/Knuth) CWEB. More details in the distribution. It is available via anonymous ftp from: labrea.stanford.edu:/pub/sgb = ====================================================================== * Bibliographies ---------------- Nelson Beebe has collected an extensive bibliography treating literate programming. His work is available for anonymous ftp from ftp.math.utah.edu [128.110.198.2] in directory /pub/tex/bib as files: litprog.bib litprog.ltx litprog.twx. Although I have not verified this, LPA is an alternate source for these files. Note that they are updated frequently (Nelson says several times each week), so be sure to get a fresh copy before extensive use. Joachim Schrod indicates that these files may be updated daily and can be retrieved via anonymous ftp at LPA/documentation. = ====================================================================== * How to anonymously ftp ------------------------ Pretty much everything mentioned here is available by anonymous FTP. FAQ lists cross-posted to news.answers and rec.answers can be gotten from rtfm.mit.edu [18.181.0.24], under /pub/usenet/news.answers or under /pub/usenet/more.specific.group.name "anonymous FTP" is just a way for files to be stored where anyone can retrieve them over the Net. For example, to retrieve the latest version of the literate programming FAQ, do the following: > ftp rtfm.mit.edu /* connect to the site; message follows */ > anonymous /* type this when it asks for your name */ > /* type your address as the password */ > cd /pub/usenet /* go to the directory you want to be */ > cd comp.programming.literate /* one level down (no slash). */ > dir /* look at what's there */ > get literate-progamming-faq /* get the file; case-sensitive */ > quit /* stop this mysterious thing */ If your FTP program complains that it doesn't know where the site you want to use is, type the numerical address instead of the sitename: > ftp 18.181.0.24 /* connect with numerical address */ If you don't have ftp access, send e-mail to mail-server@rtfm.mit.edu with the single word "help" in the body of the message. Getting binary files (executables, or any compressed files) is only slightly more difficult. You need to set binary mode inside FTP before you transfer the file. > binary /* set binary transfer mode */ > ascii /* set back to text transfer mode */ FAQs and spoiler lists are generally ascii files; everything else is generally binary files. Some common extensions on binary files in archive sites are: .Z Compressed; extract with uncompress .tar.Z Compressed 'tape archive'; uncompress then untar or tar -xvf .gz or .z Gnu gzip; use gunzip (available from prep.gnu.ai.mit.edu) .sit (Mac) StufIt archive .zip Extract with Zip or Unzip .zoo Yet another archive/compress program .lhe (Amiga) ? .lzh Lha archive program. .arj (PC) Arj archive program. .exe (PC) Sometimes self-extracting archives-just execute them. .uue or .UUE Transfer as text file; use uudecode to convert to binary .hqx (Mac) BinHex format; transfer in text mode Generic help can be found in the FAQs of comp.binaries. for how to transfer, extract, and virus-check binary files. (At rtfm.mit.edu) If you can't FTP from your site, use one of the following ftp-by-mail servers: ftpmail@decwrl.dec.com ftpmail@src.doc.ic.ac.uk ftpmail@cs.uow.edu.au ftpmail@grasp.insa-lyon.fr For complete instructions, send a message reading "help" to the server. If you don't know exactly what you're looking for, or exactly where it is, there are programs and servers that can help you. For more info, send e-mail to mail-server@rtfm.mit.with with the body of the message reading send usenet/news.answers/finding-sources Thanks to Aliza R. Panitz (the "buglady") for this text. I copied it verbatim from her post on faq-maintainers with only minor modifications. = ====================================================================== * Acknowledgements ------------------ This document would not have happened without the help of many people. Among them are Marcus Speh, George Greenwade, Rob Beezer, Joachim Schrod, Piet van Oostrum, and Ross N. Williams. A special thanks to Aliza R. Panitz for the text describing how to execute an anonymous ftp for files of interest. Any omissions from these acknowledgements should be considered an act of stupidity on my part. Of course, the authors of literate programming tools mentioned above all play a vital role in the vitality of literate programming. Furthermore, participants in the comp.programming.literate newsgroup (and associated mailing list) all contributed in various fashions. Thank all of you. = ====================================================================== * End notes ----------- This document will continue to evolve. I'm planning on adding entries for additional literate programming tools and will expand the sections on examples as more examples become available. Tools I will include are WEB (the original pascal version) for starters. Others will be added as I find and document them. Omission of a particular tool should not be considered a snub in any sense--simply an error or oversight on my part. = End of File ========================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 30 Nov 1994 15:07:21 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: peduel@popeye.xylogics.com (Yuval Peduel) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, peduel@POPEYE.XYLOGICS.COM Subject: CWEB usage? Date: 30 Nov 1994 20:00:47 GMT Message-ID: <3billf$igk@newhub.xylogics.com> To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU I've long been an advocate of literate programming, but until recently had no choice but to do it with nothing more than commenting conventions using an editor. Then I got the chance to look into the WEB family of tools and grabbed it. Unfortunately, the beautiful bubble seems to have burst. My attempts to use CWEB have resulted in completely incomprehensible output: 1. When I write code, I do not always go top-down. When creating a loop, I'll often design the loop invariant, the inner code to implement it, and then the loop primitive and the initialization code. But when I tried to set up a scrap (?) with: @= before writing the loop which refers to @, the cweave output came out all wrong: the curly brackets for the if statements ended up adjacent, on the line with the "if" and the Boolean expression, rather than bracketing the conditional code. 2. Under certain situations that I do not yet understand, line breaks that are clearly needed are not put in. In one case, five separate input lines, each a separate statement, were output by cweave on one line. More than once, several statements from inside a compound statement were put on one output line while the remaining statements from the same compound statement were not. In other cases, the "if", the Boolean expression, and part of the conditional code were merged with a preceding assignment statement while the else clause was handled perfectly. I've also had minor but still annoying problems: 1. I like to organize my code along the LISP COND style, which translates into a C else-if chain. Cweave seems to insist on indenting further at each link of the chain. 2. I take full advantage of the Unix file system to give readable names to my files, using underscores to separate words. When cweave takes the file name for use in the header, it can't handle this. 3. I think indentation is a great aid to readability, but two spaces per level is too small. I'd prefer 3 or 4, yet do not know how to do this. While I can't say much about these minor problems, I do know that in some sense, the major problems are "my fault". To bring up CWEB, I FTPed the Tex, Mfont, CWeb, etc. sources and did a full install starting with config at every step along the way. When I was done, I ran all the examples in the cweb/examples directory and the results looked good. Thus the installation and the software seem O.K. On the other hand, I patterned my code after what I saw in the examples, with what seemed to be only minor changes to accommodate my style. Surely I've made mistakes, but they can't be major and I still have no idea where or what they are. I chose CWEB rather than one of the language independent tools because I knew I would be programming in C and I thought that a language specific tool would provide more robust error recognition and handling. I suppose my questions are: 1. Is my experience unique or do others experience this kind of tool fragility? Are these problems unique to CWEB or would I have similar problems with the other tools? (I.e. is the problem rooted in the C syntax, the macro processing limitations of Tex, a by-product of the CWEB implementation, or inherent in any attempt at a powerful text-based tool of this nature?) 2. Is there documentation to help newcomers? I've read the literate-programming FAQ, but seen none specific to CWEB. I have a copy of Knuth and Levy, but its usage information is minimal. Reading the code to find out how to use it is exactly what I'm trying to get away from. 3. Are there any additional tools that would make it easier to satisfy the finicky requirements of cweave. For example, since the C compiler tends to be finicky, I use indent to make sure that I haven't left out closing braces, etc., but indent isn't really applicable to CWEB files. Are there any useful Emacs modes or the like? 4. Where do I go from here? I'm looking forward to getting both specific answers and to reading whatever general discussion these questions might generate. Thanks. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 30 Nov 1994 18:58:46 CDT Sender: owner-litprog@SHSU.edu From: ruml@bowmore.harvard.edu (Wheeler Ruml) Reply-To: LitProg@SHSU.edu, ruml@BOWMORE.HARVARD.EDU Subject: Re: CWEB usage? Date: 01 Dec 1994 00:43:33 GMT Message-ID: To: LitProg@SHSU.EDU I tried to use CWEB two years ago, and was also frustrated by similar problems to the ones you describe. I'm in the middle of trying again, this time for C++ instead of C, and I'm just about to give up. As far as I can tell, the technology just isn't "out-of-the-box" yet. I'm having a terrible time getting my Makefile to work properly (GNU Make), and I miss the highly-developed C and C++ modes in Emacs. Some of the formatting problems can be fixed using @; and such - read the CWEB docs carefully! Hacking the actually grammar is really hairy - check out some of the alternate cweb variants, they have a cleaner layout. If anyone can offer some help with these sorts of configuration issues, I'd be grateful. I'm not willing to spend this much time fiddling with my tools and down-grading my expectations. Thanks, Wheeler -- "Fear and anger lead to the dark side of the Force." - Obi Wan -- "Fear and anger lead to the dark side of the Force." - Obi Wan